Dear VMK... - I've waited a year to say this, so here it is...

[BriarRosie]

Wow Briar, that's really hateful. I know that you don't particularly like me, but why would I ever dismiss anyone's opinion, let alone their faith? I think that I made it perfectly clear in my first post that

Dude, I never said anything hateful. I just thought you were being argumentative about the Christmas items in the game not really relating to Christmas as a counterpoint to the Hanukkah items in the game.

I know lots of people would be screaming bloody murder if there was a nativity scene put into the game that was misrepresented improperly. It wouldn't be any less valid for that example, either.

Symbolism is a very touchy subject, and symbols and images do evoke emotional responses in people.

And I don't have anything against you. I know you're a nice kid.

 

[JulyGirl]

My dad is Jewish and my mom is Christain. We always mixed the holidays at my house. I was never offeneded by the 7 candles because VMK did not technically label it a "menorah".

 

[Cardinal]

I know lots of people would be screaming bloody murder if there was a nativity scene put into the game that was misrepresented improperly. It wouldn't be any less valid for that example, either.

I guess we've been misinterpreting eachother's comments. I wouldn't want to use an updated Menorah as an excuse to see Mickey on a cross. I just wanted to contribute to the discussion through a point that does not show a bias toward any one religion- The Disney Company most likely does not want to represent any religion too strongly. The wreath has lost much of its intended religious meaning, just like the dreidel seems (operative word) to have lost its historical meaning. Someone can correct me on that, but I have several Jewish friends who know nothing about the origins of a dreidel.

 

[Belle1997]

I am a Christian and I do see Dreams point. Being a christian means accepting the Jewish faith too. Also disney should not put out an item that is a misrepresention of an actually reglious item. Many kids do not know how many candles there should be and here is a chance to learn.

Just like the quest on Thursday I always thought the colours of hanukah were ornage and yellow why because the presents were that colour. But I learned that is was silver and blue. So if VMK is going to teach us about other traditions they should be accurate on all items.

And for those who do not know Christmas really is a pagen holiday. But the christians adapted it to celebrate the baby Jesus. Santa is not Christian and many homes do not celebrate Santa. I think that is why we have Xmas now for those who do not belief in Christ they took him out of Christmas.

But there is no mistaking hanukah it is a jewish holiday. And should be represented properly.

 

[Master Gracy]

I think that is why we have Xmas now for those who do not belief in Christ they took him out of Christmas.

while I agree with the rest of your post, just a small point of information about Xmas.
The x is believed to come from Χριστος, which is greek for christ.
The word has been abbreviated for at least 1000 years, so christmas=xmas


anyway back on topic:
I think maybe a little more research should have gone into the item, but could they perhaps come out with a separate Hanukkah menorah, with the correct amount of candles, and leave the presents with a non Hanukkah menorah

 

[Goofy_Bob]

...7 candle version seems to be a more common as a symbol of the Jewish faith in general.

Wikipedia: Menora - Hanukiah...

Very interesting. I never knew this. Can anyone in the Jewish faith confirm/deny the validity of Wikipedia on this topic?

...The x is believed to come from Χριστος, which is greek for christ...

As I was taught in Sunday school, the monks who had to hand-write everything back in the day would abbreviate many words to save ink (and their hands) including the greek word for Christ.

 

[AmberDaze]

I found this very interesting...from "The Jewish Book of Why..."

"The menora that was the centerpiece of the Tabernacle in the wilderness and of the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem had seven branches. After the Temples were destroyed, a tradition developed (Menachot 28b) that the appurtenances of the Temple should not be duplicated and that seven-branched menorot should therefore not be constructed. The six-branched menora became popular, but any number other than seven was permissible. A Star of David was usually affixed to the center arm of the six-branched menora.

Those congregations today that have installed seven-branched menorot reason that theirs are not copies of the candelabrum of the Temple. Because modern menorot are electrified, they are quite unlike the original that was cleaned each day, the wicks of which were changed, and to which fresh oil was added."

 

[AmberDaze]

More specifically in regard to Chanukkah...also from "The Jewish Book of Why..."

"A ninth candle called a shamash, is used to light the other candles in the menora. This is a continuation of the practice followed when the seven-branched candelbrum of the Tabernacle and Temple was lit. The seventh branch in each of these menorot was called the shamash, meaning "servant." Used to light the others, it was not counted as one of the lights.

A ninth candle is also used because the eight primary candles of the Chanuka menora may not be used for practical purposes. By having a ninth candle to light the others, one will not be tempted to use any of the eight primary candles for such purposes."

 

[poohluv2u]

I know lots of people would be screaming bloody murder if there was a nativity scene put into the game that was misrepresented improperly. It wouldn't be any less valid for that example, either.

While I am not talking about in the game specifically ...
A lot of the time the Nativity scene is misrepresented ... when it includes the wise men in the scene. The wise men were not there for the Birth of Christ but arrived many years later. However, as the wise men started their journey because of Christ's Birth it has become part of the story of Christmas.

 

[Disneychick74]

Personally, I don't see the big deal. But then again, I'm not Jewish.

However, as a group of people that makes up something like 2% of the American population I think I would be quite pleased to have the Star of David on a pin, another Channukah pin, a Dreidle and something that is widely recognized as a Menorah in the game. While the holiday of Christmas is obviously recognized in the game, Christians get no religious iconography at all.

7 candles is referred to as a Menorah according to Wikipedia. In fact, it refers to 9 candle variety as The Hanukiah. So while the 9 candle version may be specifically associated with the holiday the 7 candle version seems to be a more common as a symbol of the Jewish faith in general.

Wikipedia: Menora - Hanukiah

It probably sounds like I'm being argumentative but I'm really trying to understand why this is so important that it requires a public campaign to fix. I still "glove" you Dreams. I don't mean any disrespect and I sincerely hope this works out for you. I also hope it doesn't create a controversy that causes the game designers to enforce an even more strict policy in regards to religious expression in general.

While Building the Jewish Temple in Isreal there was only enough oil to burn for one more day. That oil lasted 8 days allowing time to get more oil and finish building the temple. It is very important. 9 candles (one for each day that the oil burned) and then one to light the 8 candles because the other 8 should have no other purpose but "to be lit" giving a total of 9.
I have to agree that VMK dropped the ball on this one. It is not an oversight I am sure the people here on dis that noticed were not the only ones that brought it to VMK's attention. I feel that if it were too difficult for them to rewrite the programming then they should not have re-released the item.
Personally I find it a little insulting.

 

[queenj]

i must agree with disneychick74 and if they re-released it (and they did) you can't tell me that not 1 person wrote to disney to tell them they were wrong. disney must know. i will be going to disney for xmas and the day before and will look around to see if they honour the jewish tradtion there.

on a branch, so to speak, i call it xmas because i am too lazy to type it all out. and before you critize me we use many abb. ie. lol, rofl, lmao, ty, yw, plz, tyvm ect....

so disney needs to correct the error of thier way and fix it. and if we are going to pick on something how about politics.

 

[funfly]

Thanks Card. Just 2 small notes on your comments:
If this is so, then it should not be called "Hannukah Presents."

My dad is Jewish and my mom is Christain. We always mixed the holidays at my house. I was never offeneded by the 7 candles because VMK did not technically label it a "menorah".

I agree with JulyGirl, they didn't label it as Hannukah Candle or Menorah....but Presents.

However, as a group of people that makes up something like 2% of the American population I think I would be quite pleased to have the Star of David on a pin, another Channukah pin, a Dreidle and something that is widely recognized as a Menorah in the game. While the holiday of Christmas is obviously recognized in the game, Christians get no religious iconography at all.

7 candles is referred to as a Menorah according to Wikipedia. In fact, it refers to 9 candle variety as The Hanukiah. So while the 9 candle version may be specifically associated with the holiday the 7 candle version seems to be a more common as a symbol of the Jewish faith in general.

Wikipedia: Menora - Hanukiah

It probably sounds like I'm being argumentative but I'm really trying to understand why this is so important that it requires a public campaign to fix. I still "glove" you Dreams. I don't mean any disrespect and I sincerely hope this works out for you. I also hope it doesn't create a controversy that causes the game designers to enforce an even more strict policy in regards to religious expression in general.

And if they wish to enforce an even more strict policy in regards to religious expression in general then perhaps there should be No mention at all allowed for Star of David on a pin, another Channukah pin, a Dreidle and something that is widely recognized as a Menorah in the GAME. We should be happy to have it mentioned at all.

Not everything is represented "correctly in personal opinions" all the time in Games; after all we are not able to choose eye color now are we. Should I be offended by that? No, it is a game, and it is after all, Just a Game.

 

[delicious]

As a Christian person, a tree does not Christmas make. Where is the Nativity?? Baby Jesus is the reason I celebrate the holiday, not the commericalism of Christmas. Does this mean I should be upset and offended that they don't honor my religious beliefs?? I don't recall VMK was set up as a religious game, and it is just a game.
People that don't celebrate Halloween did not buy Halloween items, people that don't celebrate Christmas don't buy Christmas stuff. If the item offends you don't buy it is what I say. Remember it is just a game and no where did it say that it was a representation of real life or religion.
Enjoy the game as a game and be happy.

 

[Disney Dreams]

...And if they wish to enforce an even more strict policy in regards to religious expression in general then perhaps there should be No mention at all allowed for Star of David on a pin, another Channukah pin, a Dreidle and something that is widely recognized as a Menorah in the GAME. We should be happy to have it mentioned at all.

I could not disagree with you more.

So, no Christmas tree, no wreath, no santa hats, no candy canes, and no Christmas carols in any of the rooms? These are all symbols of Christmas, which in its original roots is a celebration of a religious figure. Christ.

Saying, "Hey Disney, you got an important holiday item wrong, but that's ok, thanks for thinking of us" IS what every Jewish player did last year. To not fix it a year later is simply saying they don't care to correct it. THAT'S the entire issue.

I am in NO WAY saying do way with Christmas or Channukah items. I think that would be a very very sad choice to make. I am just disappoint that MK knew the item was incorrect and chose to re-release it without fixing it. Getting rid of all holiday objects just seems a bit much imho. Holidays are fun - just like vmk!

But, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks for sharing yours.

 

[Princess_Angelica]

As a Christian person, a tree does not Christmas make. Where is the Nativity?? Baby Jesus is the reason I celebrate the holiday, not the commericalism of Christmas. Does this mean I should be upset and offended that they don't honor my religious beliefs?? I don't recall VMK was set up as a religious game, and it is just a game.
People that don't celebrate Halloween did not buy Halloween items, people that don't celebrate Christmas don't buy Christmas stuff. If the item offends you don't buy it is what I say. Remember it is just a game and no where did it say that it was a representation of real life or religion.
Enjoy the game as a game and be happy.

I'm agreeing with delicious. the trees and wreaths and such do not mean Christmas. They are just what society has MADE to represent Christmas, when in all actuallity, Christ represents Christmas. There are actually many things in vmk that I don't appreciate because they offend my religion, I am also Christian. And it deeply upsets me that people can walk around saying "goth" and "vampire", etc, but I can't tell my friends that Jesus loves them, or they're in my prayers. My friend in vmk, actually had to change her name because it had the word "praying" in it. but people can walk around being "dark" and such. Also they have a few Christmas items labeled as X-mas. That also offends me. As a Christian, i believe that X-mas is sacreligious because as i've always heard it, you are X-ing out Christ.
As for the items, I would much rather take a nativity scene (great idea by the way) or a few crosses to put in my room. Or at least be able to say the name of the one who even created us in the first place to be having this dispute.

I could not disagree with you more.

So, no Christmas tree, no wreath, no santa hats, no candy canes, and no Christmas carols in any of the rooms? These are all symbols of Christmas, which in its original roots is a celebration of a religious figure. Christ.

Saying, "Hey Disney, you got an important holiday item wrong, but that's ok, thanks for thinking of us" IS what every Jewish player did last year. To not fix it a year later is simply saying they don't care to correct it. THAT'S the entire issue.

I am in NO WAY saying do way with Christmas or Channukah items. I think that would be a very very sad choice to make. I am just disappoint that MK knew the item was incorrect and chose to re-release it without fixing it. Getting rid of all holiday objects just seems a bit much imho. Holidays are fun - just like vmk!

But, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks for sharing yours.

I don't disagree with you entireley and I am not directing this to you alone in any way shape or form. I am also not trying to create enemies, but i would like to share something as well. I can understand how you may be offended by the mistake. But a lot of other people get offended by things as well. and I know for a fact that MANY people I know have written to vmk about things that i mentioned above because they were offended as well. As we have all noticed, they haven't bothered to take our opinions into consideration much either. It's getting impossible to express Christianity to others in vmk. And it's quite upsetting. I do agree that it is just a game, and since that is the case. my arguments don't go much outside sending vmk emails, and discussing this issue with friends. I know that just because i'm unhappy with something vmk isn't doing right in my eyes, doesn't mean they have the obligation to change it to however i see fit. If they conformed to one persons complaints, they would have to conform to all, and thus, vmk would not be as we enjoy it. it's just like the real world. If I don't like something, I have the right to say something, but others don't have an obligation to fix whatever is bothering me. Take the pledge of allegience in schools for instance. It upsets me that our country itself seems to be doing everything possible to wipe God out of it. Christians everywhere have expressed deep disappointment, but not much ever seems to be done about things like that. As a Christian, I also understand that in the Bible it clearly states that in the end times, Christians will be hated. And with that belief, I also understand that if we happen to be getting into the end times, then there is nothing anyone can do about this anyway. Religion seems to be sucked out of most things now because people don't want to offend anyone. And when they try to do something religious, they may get it wrong and offend anyway, so to them, what's the point of even trying? I am deeply sorry if I have offended or hurt anyone in any way. This is not meant to be taken as insult, simply my personal opinion. Thank you for listening.

 

[BriarRosie]

I think this has gotten way off on a different tangent.

The only thing that should matter is that VMK messed up.
They clearly labeled an object as Hanukkah.
But they messed up the way the object should have been depicted.
Because it does matter to those the object means something.
It is not open to interpretation.

And VMK not only knew about it (from last year), they didn't change
it for this year when they released it again.

What is so difficult to understand, here?

(Insert your own joke about 5,000+ years of oppession here.)

I'm beginning to think this thread should be closed.

 

[gshawen]

http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=485&o=1972061


"Hanukiah" or "Menorah"? Are they the same thing?
by Rabbi Simcha Bart

Menorah is the Hebrew term for any manmade light source such as a candelabrum, for example. When Modern Hebrew came about, the term Menorah was used for any light source including electric room lighting. So the term Hanukiah was invented to differentiate between a common household electric lamp and the Chanukah Menorah.



In the Diaspora, where Hebrew isn’t the vernacular and this isn't an issue, the word Menorah is used almost exclusively to describe The Temple Candelabrum of seven branches, and the eight-branch one we light on Chanukah.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe VMK used the 7 candle version to keep religion out of the game as they did with not giving out nativity scenes.

And no I don't worship a christmas tree, a wreath, or presents. I know several people who do not believe in Christ and they all have chritsmas trees, wreaths, and presents displayed, what they don't have is a nativity scene.

 

[Princess_Angelica]

I think this has gotten way off on a different tangent.

The only thing that should matter is that VMK messed up.
They clearly labeled an object as Hanukkah.
But they messed up the way the object should have been depicted.
Because it does matter to those the object means something.
It is not open to interpretation.

And VMK not only knew about it (from last year), they didn't change
it for this year when they released it again.

What is so difficult to understand, here?

(Insert your own joke about 5,000+ years of oppession here.)

I'm beginning to think this thread should be closed.

It's is plenty understandable, but i think a lot of people just don't see how it has escalated into something so huge, myself included. I completely understand that people are upset, and they have every right to be. and yes, vmk should have either fixed the problem or not re-released the item. but at the same time, as i stated in my previous post, they do not have that obligation to conform to everyone who has a complaint. And again, I am truly sorry if anyone has become offended by what I have said. I feel most of these comments on this thread should have been expected however. Talking about religion nowadays is basically just opening up a can of worms unfortunately. It usually ends with one or many people's feelings being hurt. I do apologize if I have sounded rude. That's not at all what I meant. I hope everyone can get past their differences and we can all agree to disagree and continue to be friends.

 

[bopper]

I always thought the VMK Menorah had 7 candles for the same reason Mickey only has 4 fingers.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

That's pretty poor form. If they are going to have religious items in VMK, they should at least make a bit of an effort to do them correctly. It is, after all, a bigger mistake to get that wrong than, say, missing off the leg of a table (random example, I know).

One thing I do wonder though, is why VMK has articles specific to the Jewish faith, but not to any other. There are no specifically Christian items (all the 'Christmas' items are secular, mainly derived from Pagan roots), nor are there Hindu, Muslim or Sikh items. I commend them for celebrating the Jewish faith, please no one misunderstand me, I just don't see why I'm not allowed to show my faith, or to celebrate the rich and diverse mix of cultures that make up humanity.

As I said, I think it's very wrong of VMK to let this mistake slide for a second year. I also am not objecting to the presence of Jewish symbolism in the game, quite the opposite; but if they have chosen not to remain completely secular, I would like to see items from other faiths introduced too. Hopefully this might encourage kids to find out more about the thoughts, faiths and beliefs of others (hey, I can hope, can't I?).

Let's hope they fix this soon!


P.S. I confess, I've not read all the posts, so if I'm just repeating what's already been said 5 times, I do apologise.