DDPers of "the world" unite, have the tip removed for bad service.

Its hard to judge "bad service" unless you have been a server before. Lets say you are sat for 10 minutes, and your server hasn't been there before. Some would be quick to scream bad service. Maybe they are in the back area getting drinks for a party of 15, and not just 15 cokes, I'm talking water, sodas, juices, coffee, alcohol, etc. Maybe the computer system crashed, and they are waiting for it to reboot, and then have to run through credit cards for a family of 9, who insist on paying with 5 different cards, instead of just one check. The "better" servers are the ones who try to predict the future. The Peterson family of two mentioned how hot it is today, are about half way through their cokes, and a party of 10 is about to be sat. The server will be busy with that new large party, so dropping off 2 cokes right now, while not 100% needed would be a smart thing.

Almost 90% of "bad service" can be explained from a servers point of view as out of not just that.

But a good server would apologize for the wait, and likely offer some cursory explanation....or stop by enroute from dropping off drinks to run the credit card and say "be with you in just a minute".

You have to understand, from a patrons perspective...and they're the one paying the bill....they can only go by what they're see or told by the server.
 
Hah! I was an English major (BA English) and I can't spell to save my life. I constantly ask my rather bright 10 year old how to spell certain words. Without spell-check in college I would have been sunk. In high school, I used my father as my spell-check. He was also an English major, but a great speller like my son. I guess the good spell gene skips a generation! :goodvibes


:scared1: I was always a good speller and English was my favorite subject. That was back before there was such a thing as spellchecker. I really think it was better when people had to know how to spell. My kids have never cared that much about spelling things correctly and I think that's really sad, but their teachers don't seem to mind either. A misspelled word when I was in school would have been an error. For them, it wasn't, because their teachers looked at content, not spelling. Again, I think it's unfortunate that it's come to that!

OH - also wanted to say that we rarely order alcholic drinks when we go out to eat and I never felt that the server was upset that we weren't padding the bill with drinks. I always figured there were about as many who don't order drinks as those who do.
 
Maybe newspapers and magazines hire a different kind of writer?

she worked for The New York Observer too - same percentage
funnily, she said that that chick Constance, who wrote the column from which Sex and the City is based, was one of the worst offenders - go figure.

back on topic- i would like the option of being able to choose my tip up to 18%. maybe any difference can go into a union fund?
however, our biggest problem has usually been deciding how much MORE to give our WDW servers.

A Question for OP: in thinking about the post more, how can you tolerate that NASTY WDW tap water as much as to "ask" for it? eeeeewwww....:crazy2:
 
Having read through the whole of this thread now, I can only say that this is so true :lmao: Note the bold type ;)

1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed

14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs

1 to move it to the Lighting section

2 to argue, then move it to the Electricals section

7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs

5 to flame the spell checkers

3 to correct spelling/grammar flames

6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid

2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp"


15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct

19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum

11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum

36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty

7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs

4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's

3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group

13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"

5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy

4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"

13 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs"

1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again
 

Except, well, it DOES take two to tango...and trying to lay the blame at the foot, entirely, of the patron doesn't wash either. I have a responsibility to be a "good", reasonable, patron who doesn't inconvenience the server or make their job difficult or uncomfortable. They have a responsibility to provide good service. I hold up my end of the bargain, I promise you.

Look, my wife has bad restaurant karma. It's just the way it is. Maybe she was a lousy patron, tipper, or server in a past life. I don't know. But about 1/2 the time we go out to eat, sometime during the meal she gets the wrong order. And no, I'm not exagerating. No, she doesn't mumble. We had even taken to asking server to read back the order to make sure. Still, about 1/2 the time (and we're talking about a WIDE variety of eateries, here).....somewhere along the line....she gets the wrong thing.

Usually, we deal with it in an appropriate manner...we tell the server, and often laugh or joke about my wife's bad karma. MOST of the time, it's handled with the professionalism one would expect from someone in the service industry. They get the full 18% to 20%+ we would normally tip. But sometimes....just sometimes....the server is rude or just not responsive. And I fail to see how we play any part in that.

Sometimes, it IS the servers fault. And you can argue with me til you're blue in the face that they still have the "right" to a full tip. I disagree. If a landscaper did an awful job, I'd not pay them in full. If a hairdresser gave me a bad haircut, I'd not pay them in full. If any other service person performed bad service, I'd negotiate a reduction in the rate I'm paying. With a server, that reduction comes from their tip. Keep in mind, I'm not talking "reasonable" things like it taking awhile to get my drink, or food being slow out of the kitchen or things the server may have limited control over. I'm talking about downright rude, inconsiderate, or unresponsive service. If that offends those of you who have been servers, I'm very sorry. But I, too, think it goes with accepting the job. Just like I don't get my bonus at work if our department doesn't perform.....



Oy vey. Clearly you missed the part where I said that poor service should not be tipped! My point is that good service should be tipped, period, and not based on moods, income, or general cheapness. In no way did I insinuate that poor service is always the guest's fault.

What I did say was to ask yourself (the collective yourself) what part do
we play in receiving poor service? Also we must define what good service is and is not. :goodvibes
 
Yeah, thanks for the info... I was not referring to a dine and dash. I let the manager know up front that service was bad enough that I have to leave, and I don’t wait till I have finished my meal leaving full after bad service.

It will still be addressed in that way and more than likely you will be charged on on your ddp in someway, unless you barely ate a few bites and just ordered a drink and then decided to leave. I do apologize for assuming you meant eating and then leaving..

I do know at many of the restaurants that dont catttle call your name, use this description of guests... I am completely being serious here. They use this description process and if a server has an inkling that someone is walking out(as this happens mostly in the summer), all managers on duty are wired, including the assignor of tables, the person who checks you in, and the plain clothing folks outside including all security. IMMEDIATELY the description of each guests used at check in is reverted to. Look at your seating card when you are seated. It will have codes all over it and the printed out receipt stapled to it will as well, with your name. Watch the server, they are also making sure it matches and writing any other identifiers that stick out, especially if shoe color is wrong, and they correct the mistakes.. ONCE AGAIN, this is a park problem (MK)mostly...So they really do store a lot of info while you are waiting for your table....
 
Oy vey. Clearly you missed the part where I said that poor service should not be tipped! My point is that good service should be tipped, period, and not based on moods, income, or general cheapness. In no way did I insinuate that poor service is always the guest's fault.

What I did say was to ask yourself (the collective yourself) what part do
we play in receiving poor service? Also we must define what good service is and is not. :goodvibes

Here is the post I responded to, in it's entirety:

If the worst thing about my day was that I had to wait longer than the quoted time or my water glass was empty, I would consider that I pretty good day. Let's face it, some people take out their miserable and cheap existence on the easy and available victim.

If people keep experiencing bad service, at some point they have to ask themselves what part are they playing in that equasion?! The common denominator is the patron, not the server!

My rationale when waiting on miserable and unsatisfiable guests was that at least I only had to deal with them for an hour; they have to live with themselves forever!

While you may have said "poor service shouldn't be tipped" in a later post, you certainly didn't in the one I responded to, nor had you said it in the posts prior to that, that I can find. I'm reading from page 1 forward, and responded as I was reading. You, instead, seemed to point the finger squarely at the patron......which is no more fair than the alternative viewpoint.

As I said, it takes 2 to tango.
 
Here is the post I responded to, in it's entirety:



While you may have said "poor service shouldn't be tipped" in a later post, you certainly didn't in the one I responded to, nor had you said it in the posts prior to that, that I can find. I'm reading from page 1 forward, and responded as I was reading. You, instead, seemed to point the finger squarely at the patron......which is no more fair than the alternative viewpoint.

As I said, it takes 2 to tango.


Maybe I said it in the other tipping thread abut buffets. In any event, I hope your wife's bad service karma comes to a halt. :goodvibes
 
In any event, I hope your wife's bad service karma comes to a halt. :goodvibes

It's been 13+ years, and I can't even remember how many restaurants, though I have to say that at Disney her % drops down dramatically. See, the magic really DOES work! We're used to it at this point....even the kids laugh about it now. Hopefully it's not hereditary. My wife says it started with her when she was around 13 or 14 years old, and got worse once we started dating (I actually remember her mentioning it on our first dinner date). As I sort of insinuated in my original post, it's sort of a running gag..we just laugh it off.
 
This thread is cracking me up. And, as a professional proofer, I'd just like to say I'm off the clock when on DIS.

Once upon a time we ate at Pepper Market at CS. We were paying OOP, and it was New Year's Day. A 10% gratuity is automatically added to your bill.

Well. After we'd taken our seats we never saw a server. No one came by to clear plates, check on drinks, etc. So when it came time to leave, I just casually mentioned to the cashier that while I certainly don't in principle object to the automatic 10% tip, it would've been nice to have received SOME sort of service.

She just shook her head sadly, and without me asking, called for a manager.

"Where were you sitting?" he asked.

"Well, I don't want to get anyone in trouble. It's New Year's." (I've determined that I have a much better time with life in general when I adopt a "no big deal" attitude ... y'know, being real selective about what irritates me and what constitutes an "issue.")

"No, please, sir," said the manager. "Where were you sitting?"

So, I pointed to our table. He and the cashier exchanged Knowing Glances. Not only did he comp our meals, but he also gave all four of us desserts to go.

Disney can, and does, turn bad experiences into Magical Moments. That's the only time in well over 100 Disney visits I've gotten bad (as in non-existant) service. A couple of times I've had what I'd consider "indifferent" service, and several times when service was stellar ... one particular memorable evening at California Grill comes to mind.

Just as a point of reference - the best service I've ever received was at Emeril's Delmonico in New Orleans. To this day I don't know how they did it.

And, as far as a chain ... I've consistently gotten excellent service at Waffle House. (Feel free to pass judgement or, at least, form your own conclusions about my eating habits.)
 
OT~The first time I had ever been to a Waffle House was 2 years ago in northern Fla. & we were on our way to Disney from N.Y. We wanted waffles to go since we had 2 very patient little boys waiting to see Mickey for the first time:cool1: Anyawy, the folks at Waffle House were so sweet, they had no plasticware left, so they gave us silverware to take w/ us!! Those waffles were awesome!! P.S. They got a great tip!:goodvibes
 
Continuing on the WH diversion:

Our family first ate at a Waffle House in Kissimmee in 04. We got up at 3 a.m. to catch our 6 a.m. flight to Orlando, so by around 11 we were famished. We agreed to stop at the next restaurant we saw, which was a WH. Maybe we were really really hungry, maybe the food had some second-hand pixie dust being blown in from WDW, but we all agree it's one of the best breakfasts we've ever had.

Now we make a point of eating at a WH during every WDW vacation. :thumbsup2
 
If you're fond of diner-style food, WH is in a league of its own. Zero nutritional value, "colorful" patrons, and the best hash browns in the universe ... scattered, smothered, and covered! With that open kitchen, there's always a show going on.

Sorry. You may have your thread back.
 
Run your business, and treat the customers however you would like... but this is not a two way street. Servers know what they are in for when they take the job... you made your choice. I could have poodles jumping though hoops on my table, I could yell bloody murder for everything when you come to the table... guess what, if you want that tip, you better take it with a simle... or quit. Again people miss the point here... forcing me to tip 18% for bad service is the point.

But you do have a choice yenta... you can choose not to take the job, not to take the table, or to walk out. Love that screen name by the way.

I bet you are a JOY to wait on..Geeeshh while I am not condoning bad service and you are right the patron has every right to stiff the server for every little thing. But remember who is bringing your food to you..that is the last person you want to piss off...:lmao: just joking for the most part...:lmao:
 
I bet you are a JOY to wait on..Geeeshh while I am not condoning bad service and you are right the patron has every right to stiff the server for every little thing. But remember who is bringing your food to you..that is the last person you want to piss off...:lmao: just joking for the most part...:lmao:


For the most part. ;) :rotfl2:
 
This will be a long post as I feel the need to cover all the various glib, kneejerk defenses that people counter post defending bad service.

I know good service from bad service… I worked in a fine dinning establishment in my college days. Around $100 per person before including alcohol on the check. I made good money in tips, enough to avoid massive student loan debt at one of the most expensive bastions of upper learning in the U.S. I have traveled the world on an expense account, and have eaten in fine dinning establishments the world over. I write reviews for the local alternative newspaper for both local restaurants and restaurants I frequent in my travels. I know good service from bad.

Example of good service… Sat. morning before starting shopping and errands, we stopped into IHOP. We ordered breakfast, which is normally quick get in and get out. After about 10 min. of waiting on food, the server told us while warming up coffee that the kitchen was backed up, so there would be a slight wait for breakfast. She kept the coffee warm, and let us know about the delay. Good service, bad kitchen… she earned the tip on service which I would happily pay, but it will be a few months before we might return as the kitchen was slow (1/2 hour before we got our meal after ordering).

Bad Service… Last year we ate at Boma after a day at AK. 9pm reservations we were seated at about 9:10p. I have meds I take so I was waiting on the server to come by so I could get water. She went right into trying to pad the bill by asking what refreshments she could get us from the bar. I told her I just need a glass of water to take some pills. She disappears for 10 min.; when she comes back it is obvious she forgot the water, I am sitting and waiting. I have not got up to take part in the buffet, and at this point I already know she is not in the weeds, she is not backed up, she is pissed I ordered water and not an alcoholic beverage. If ya eat out enough, you can feel the vibe. This is the point where people want to make excuses, nope not gonna hear it none fit. If you are waiting on water to take a pill, you pay close attention to what is going on. She just did not wanna provide service for a table that was not, as she perceived, going to pad her pocket further by running up a bar tab. She never cleared plates not once. She disappeared with our card for 45 min. before bringing the bill for me to sign. How is contacting a manager going to fix this? The damage is done, the cows are out of the barn. The only recourse left is no tip. Well with DDP automagicly adding 18% and a tired spouse that just wanted to goto bed, I signed even though it galled me to do so. Trying to have it corrected would have been a lengthy conversation with a manager that had had a long day as well, since it was free DDP there was no way in hell they would comp the meal, and sleep was more appealing then spending another 45 min. waiting on a manager and have to explain what happened and why service at a buffet, that only involves getting drinks and clearing plates, was lousy.

So all that said, you can have your own opinion on providing a living wage, on always tipping 20%, on the fact that you have never gotten lousy service at WDW while on DDP, you can side with the waitress saying that I am ill mannered and must have done something wrong, you can attack me and say that some people never have fun and always get lousy service… feel free to flame, I am a big boy I can take it. What you were not, is there. We received fantastic service at 14 of our 16 table service meals. Two of which we left a tip in the 100% range as the service was that good (Breakfastasouras, ask for Mikeasouras; Le Cellier, a restaurant that gets it right consistently and yes a 100% tip was a healthy chunk of change). With out getting into a lot of fundamentals of economics, and what fundamentally drives people… the quickest way to register that the service was bad, is to not tip. I paid for DDP, even during the low season when DDP is free you are paying for it. Let no one assume that Disney is loosing money on this proposition. It’s my money, and if I do not wanna tip for lousy service, well gosh darn it, remove the tip… I do not want to have to hunt down a manager (earlier in the week at Tony’s we got lousy service and I had to wait in a line to complain, two people ahead of me complaining about service, hmmm so it was just me huh?) recant the story, and go though a long sob story of apology or explanation… it is a waste of time when leaving no tip pretty much sums it up.

I applaud that the tip is being removed from DDP, and further I am excited that the majority of people think it will no longer be worth it and will dine off site. Guess what, that will thin the heard of the bad servers. That is really how the economics of the situation will pan out. Ask an economics professor at your local community college.

As for this years trip, forewarned is forearmed… as a customer group, IF (there is not assumption that all service is bad) you receive bad service for a DDP meal, ask the manager to remove the tip. All this bunk about that it cannot be done… bogus (the union are not the ones paying the check, even if they add it back in, etc. I was to sign a tab with no tip added). Some one, somewhere cares that the guest received poor service, and once enough people make it clear that poor service will not be tolerated… oh wait a tic, the rumor is that the tip will be removed next season? Well I’ll be darned, the servers will have to earn the tip each and every table, each and every guest… maybe someone was listening to my rants this past year.


That must of been me that waited on your at IHOP...:lmao: :lmao: No but really I do work at IHOP and I do let the customers know if its going to take a bit longer then usual to get the food. Hey you sure your not a hoosier???
 
*meekly and quietly raising hand* excuse me please, I have a question?

After reading (I think!) every post in this thread, I wanted to know when is the contract up that states that the tip is included? When will/could the gratuity be removed from the DDP? Or did I read wrong that this is a possibility and the thread is about asking the managers to remove it individually after bad service???

I'm wondering if I have to budget for tips for our trip this fall (we planned on tipping over the 18% for great service anyhoo, but I need to know if we are going to be needing to pay the whole tip to be ready with cash!)

Thanks bunches.
Laren

p.s. this might be another "dumbo" question *lol* but did the OP tell the server that he needed to take medication with the water? I can't imagine a server who knew that the water was needed for that purpose to be slow in bringing it: whether she was ticked her ordered alcohol or not. Maybe some feel that disclosure shouldn't have been necessary and I guess that's true, but as someone who has juggled many med times in the past, I know that you have to do what you have to do to be sure you take em on time even if it means carrying a bottle of water with you!
 




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