DCL/Disney Business model change setup for long term failure?

[AquaDame]

I just think some people here are annoyed (I have to admit that I am part of them) by the fact that some people declare that DCL is the absolute best cruise line and all other cruise line sucks when they have never tried another cruise line. I mean it's one thing to affirm satisfaction regarding a product and another to state that it's the absolute best like it's a fact (especially when it's the only one you've known)...

Also, one question hasn't been answered enough in this thread: how much are you willing to pay for a DCL cruise (what would be the maximal amount)?

Personally, 800$/pp for a 3 nights cruise in an inside room is what we paid for our upcoming cruise and in my eyes, I overpaid... And I'm a die hard Disney fan but I won't pay that kind of prices in the future. I feel abused. And the possibility of going once every two years instead of every year does not apply: I find the price outrageous and I refuse to pay that amount for a cruise from now on.

So... What is the maximum you'd be willing to pay?

While I know there are people like that in here I feel like the majority of us that regularly respond to these threads HAVE sailed other lines and decided we like DCL the best. The most expensive cruise we've booked so far is just under 6K for the two of us. Its definitely at my upper end of what I'm willing to pay barring major wage increases but its also for a 7-night in concierge (most likely first and last time we go for broke). For context - we are 2A without kids and both make good wages. I'd rather see it at $300 or so per person per night at the upper end. Once you feel abused by a company there is going to be bad blood... I wouldn't have booked it if I wasn't comfortable with the price tag personally but I obviously don't know what your circumstances were when you did so.

 

[kaseyC]

As a 1A 2K family I have yet to price a cruise on another line that was significantly less than DCL. I find the fees on other lines add up fast: no discount for third person, sodas are per day plus a fee. Add to that the rooms are generally smaller and less well laid out, the kids clubs cost, are time limited, or non-existent, there is smoking onboard, there are fewer family friendly entertainment options, it just doesn't make sense for m family to try a different line. We'll probably do two more cruises before the kids are in college and then I'll return to traveling via backpack the way I did pre-kids. Senior hostels anyone?

That has not been our experience and the difference could be in the categories and itineraries we are cruising. We are Concierge suite cruises. All of our cruises on DCL except for one have been in suites. We are leaving in about 12 days on a western Caribbean spring break cruise on RCCL's new Harmony of the Seas in a 2 level Crown Loft suite. For the same week on the Disney Fantasy it would have been 17k more (this was when we originally booked over a year ago, the difference is probably more now) for 2A 2K in a 1 bedroom Cat. T. I can easily afford to pay the difference but why would I for basically the same Caribbean cruise. I don't value the mouse that much. We will be getting our Disney fix this summer at Aulani during our Hawaii vacation.

 

[cruiser21]

As a 1A 2K family I have yet to price a cruise on another line that was significantly less than DCL. I find the fees on other lines add up fast: no discount for third person, sodas are per day plus a fee. Add to that the rooms are generally smaller and less well laid out, the kids clubs cost, are time limited, or non-existent, there is smoking onboard, there are fewer family friendly entertainment options, it just doesn't make sense for m family to try a different line. We'll probably do two more cruises before the kids are in college and then I'll return to traveling via backpack the way I did pre-kids. Senior hostels anyone?

The teenand kids clubs are not non existent. . They are open less hours I will agree with you there. The new bigger ships have some pretty nice teen clubs. People smoke on DCL ships also. The entertainment is not as kid friendl I will also give you that, but there's plenty of other stuff to do. I wouldn't want people reading this thread to think that other cruise lines don't have great things for kids and families because that's not true. A lot of people do google searches. Threads from disboards and cc pop up. I wouldnt want anyone researching cruising to have in accurate information.

 

[Dug720]

And there we go. The question is asked, and someone answers and explains from their personal experience and are immediately told "you're wrong. This DOES happen here. It's NOT that."

That is why we are defensive.

 

[mevelandry]

While I know there are people like that in here I feel like the majority of us that regularly respond to these threads HAVE sailed other lines and decided we like DCL the best. The most expensive cruise we've booked so far is just under 6K for the two of us. Its definitely at my upper end of what I'm willing to pay barring major wage increases but its also for a 7-night in concierge (most likely first and last time we go for broke). For context - we are 2A without kids and both make good wages. I'd rather see it at $300 or so per person per night at the upper end. Once you feel abused by a company there is going to be bad blood... I wouldn't have booked it if I wasn't comfortable with the price tag personally but I obviously don't know what your circumstances were when you did so.

The circumstances were that we have been talking about WDW and DCL so much in the past years that my in-laws wanted to try it. So we booked (in December 2015) and then after that, DH and I have tried a cheaper cruise line...

If it was just for DH and I, it would have been easy to cancel our April 2017 trip with DCL and rebook with another cruise line... but travelling with my in-laws, we put them first.

I'm sure we'll have a blast and no regrets afterwards but right now, our wallet hates us.

 

[cruiser21]

That has not been our experience and the difference could be in the categories and itineraries we are cruising. We are Concierge suite cruises. All of our cruises on DCL except for one have been in suites. We are leaving in about 12 days on a western Caribbean spring break cruise on RCCL's new Harmony of the Seas in a 2 level Crown Loft suite. For the same week on the Disney Fantasy it would have been 17k more (this was when we originally booked over a year ago, the difference is probably more now) for 2A 2K in a 1 bedroom Cat. T. I can easily afford to pay the difference but why would I for basically the same Caribbean cruise. I don't value the mouse that much. We will be getting our Disney fix this summer at Aulani during our Hawaii vacation.

I don't cruise concierge, but I've found the price differences to pretty substatial. That being said I will still cruise DCL. Im planning on 2 DCL cruises in the next 18 months and a couple on other cruise lines. I can afford DCL, but that doesn't mean I will always choose them. I look at itinerary and price and decide from there.

 

[cruiser21]

And there we go. The question is asked, and someone answers and explains from their personal experience and are immediately told "you're wrong. This DOES happen here. It's NOT that."

That is why we are defensive.

If above poster

And there we go. The question is asked, and someone answers and explains from their personal experience and are immediately told "you're wrong. This DOES happen here. It's NOT that."

That is why we are defensive.

Did she say she was wrong or that her experience had been different? If above poster wants a cruise that offers third person sails free and free soda. I know exactly the direction to point her in NCL. When she states no discount for Third person not true. On carnival third and 4th person are about 10% of the 1st and second person. Royal just had a big sail 60% off third and 4th.

 

[cgolf]

And there we go. The question is asked, and someone answers and explains from their personal experience and are immediately told "you're wrong. This DOES happen here. It's NOT that."

That is why we are defensive.

Tagged back in for a second, because where I give up as well from I don't know which side I am on anymore, maybe the fence

When we recently sailed RCCL, the only up charge we had was the roughly 9 bucks a day per person for the soda package. We did book with our daughter next year and took that into consideration along with the soda when price shopping between lines. When we cruise though we stay away from up charge stuff like the plague regardless of the line we are on, except Palo Brunch, Yum. So for us we didn't feel like we needed to spend extra money to get better food or service on RCCL, but that is us. I have seen many that say they will only eat in the up charge food venues on other lines, so their costs may run higher on all lines, assuming they would not do mdrs on DCL. With a college age kid, we are no longer looking at kids clubs so that takes that out of the equation for us as well.

So our situation on pricing is unique to us based on how we tend to not spend onboard regardless of the line. This last trip we ended up buying a 10 drink card just to use up our obc.

To answer the how much would I pay to go on DCL? It is a soft percentage, but I would say if it was within 5-10% of other lines we were looking at we would strongly consider it.

Now officially tagged back out.

 

[mevelandry]

And there we go. The question is asked, and someone answers and explains from their personal experience and are immediately told "you're wrong. This DOES happen here. It's NOT that."

That is why we are defensive.

Those are only recommendations based on criterias (with a good intention)... No reason to get defensive there.

 

[Lisa F]

I think it's because originally, Walt Disney wanted it to be accessible to most families. And it was... But now it isn't.

When I started going 5 years ago, MK tickets were 85$. Now they are 125$. We used to stay at Deluxe hotels for 350-400$/night, now they charge 500-600$/night and sometimes more. Our last Disney Cruise in December 2015 we had a verandah for 1700$ (for 2). Now in 2017, we have an inside room for 1700$ (for 2). It's a huge price difference and it's just gonna get worst.

I'm not mad at Disney for raising their prices. The prices are ridiculous because they did not add much to the parks (especially MK) and I am not interested in paying more for something that I have already experimented many times (and starting to get bored with). That would be illogical. (The only reason we are going this year is because we're travelling with my in-laws and they have never been there. We've been talking about this family trip for a long time.)

I love Disney but I'm falling out of love with the way they treat their guests (taking them for granted).

Trends are worse over the long term.

I bought into DVC in 1999 for $55 a point with incentives. That would be $80/point today taking into account inflation. The cost to buy into DVC is more than double that (direct from disney) taking into account inflation.
I remember when we used to go in 1999 our premium AP was $375. In 2017 dollars that would be $550. The equivalent platinum plus AP is $869, or 60% more taking into account inflation.
I remember when AP rates at the deluxe resorts were $145. That is how we did our calculations for break even at DVC BWV. We figured it would take about 7 years. $145 in today's dollars is about $205. Cheapest value room at BWI for 2017 is $469 and assuming you get the 30% AP discount it is $320 or so. That is more than 50% more taking into account inflation.

Yet WDW is still there. the parks are still crowded. Occupancy in the hotels is still high. You need to make your dining reservations 180 +10 for some things and your FP+ 60 days out for some rides. As a "long term business model" raising prices above the rate of inflation doesn't seem to have worked out so poorly for Disney. I do feel like buying into DVC in 1999 was one of the better decisions I ever made though

 

[mevelandry]

Trends are worse over the long term.

I bought into DVC in 1999 for $55 a point with incentives. That would be $80/point today taking into account inflation. The cost to buy into DVC is more than double that (direct from disney) taking into account inflation.
I remember when we used to go in 1999 our premium AP was $375. In 2017 dollars that would be $550. The equivalent platinum plus AP is $869, or 60% more taking into account inflation.
I remember when AP rates at the deluxe resorts were $145. That is how we did our calculations for break even at DVC BWV. We figured it would take about 7 years. $145 in today's dollars is about $205. Cheapest value room at BWI for 2017 is $469 and assuming you get the 30% AP discount it is $320 or so. That is more than 50% more taking into account inflation.

Yet WDW is still there. the parks are still crowded. Occupancy in the hotels is still high. You need to make your dining reservations 180 +10 for some things and your FP+ 60 days out for some rides. As a "long term business model" raising prices above the rate of inflation doesn't seem to have worked out so poorly for Disney. I do feel like buying into DVC in 1999 was one of the better decisions I ever made though

Sounds like it was a good investment!

 

[kaseyC]

And there we go. The question is asked, and someone answers and explains from their personal experience and are immediately told "you're wrong. This DOES happen here. It's NOT that."

That is why we are defensive.

I hope you are not referring to my post. I said nothing about @darnheather being wrong. I was just stating our experience in finding differences in pricing. I even qualified it by saying it could be category or itinerary differences as well. We enjoy Disney but we also realized in 2010 when we took our girls on their first non-Disney cruise that our family enjoys cruising, period. I will never try to convince someone to sail or not sail Disney or any other cruise line but I will continue to share our family's experiences. If that makes others defensive, I can't do anything about that.

 

[Lumee23]

I think some of the DCL pricing is also possible to absorb in the sense that if you compare it to staying at WDW, with a dining plan and tickets over X nights, the costing is not significantly different once you hit a certain resort level.

This is the case for us. When I price out a Disney cruise compared to a Disney land vacation they are pretty comparable for our personal vacations and the extras we choose. Comparing other cruise lines to Disney for our family is a whole other story though and I can admit that I have some reservations paying that much extra. I have been on RCCL and NCL previously. We haven't been on DCL yet but we are going Dec this year on the Fantasy Western itinerary. I am hoping that the "magic" we experience in the parks is felt on the ships as well. I love Disney and have two young girls who love Disney so we see the value in paying for the Disney premium. I think for us if Disney continues to significantly raise prices we would opt to go less often as opposed to not going entirely. Though I say that regarding land vacations more than sea vacations. Right now we do Disney every 3-4 years but that is more because DH is not a big theme park fan and likes to diversify our vacations. My hope is that he enjoys the Disney cruise "experience" (service, kids club, food, etc) more than our recent NCL trip so that I can get my Disney fix more often in the form of a cruise instead of a theme park visit.

Despite my love of Disney, we do have a max we would go. I couldn't necessarily quantify it because it would depend on a number of factors. If it is just me and my husband our maximum would be significantly lower than what it would be if we were traveling with our daughters. The value of the Disney difference is worth more to our family when we have our littles with us. I say this though without having experienced it yet so I suppose that could possibly change.

I don't think long term this pricing strategy will hurt Disney. What I could see hurting them is if their service levels significantly drop as that has the potential to more permanently damage the brand as opposed to pricing people out. That is based on the assumption though that if ships stop filling up they would adjust pricing downwards accordingly. The brand awareness (in my non-professional opinion) is tied more to the success of their movies than people's exposure to the theme parks/ships.

 

[Dug720]

I hope you are not referring to my post. I said nothing about @darnheather being wrong. I was just stating our experience in finding differences in pricing. I even qualified it by saying it could be category or itinerary differences as well. We enjoy Disney but we also realized in 2010 when we took our girls on their first non-Disney cruise that our family enjoys cruising, period. I will never try to convince someone to sail or not sail Disney or any other cruise line but I will continue to share our family's experiences. If that makes others defensive, I can't do anything about that.

No. Not yours.

 

[mom4fun]

I agree and think people like Dave Ramsey, who is more popular than ever, are a threat to Disney's business model.

Dave Ramsey is the reason we can afford a Disney cruise every year. We are out of debt and budget for vacations every month. It is our one splurge a year. My child litterally says I don't need a new back pack this year, I don't a new.... whatever because he has learned to prioritize. The Dave Ramsey model allows for a certain percentage of your income to go for vacations. I would rather vacation and build family memories than have expensive cars or buy a bunch of toys and clothes. Now that said, we do Disney cheap. We look for the bargains so we don't find it any more expensive than any other vacation. Those that have to cruise in the summer or major holidays may always be priced out.

 

[cgolf]

No. Not yours.

I think both sides get pounced on unfortunately. A year or to ago someone came pretty close to if not actually telling me and others to take a hike from the boards because pricing shouldn't be talked about on here. I think I actually ended up having a good dialog with the person, so all ended up being good. I mostly lurk now and help out with GF questions from time to time. I have noticed though that pricing has creeped into a lot of threads of late.

By the way if you are interested we found a good Pavlova recipie, PM me if you are interested in the link.

 

[Dug720]

Out of curiosity I was just looking at things for my estimate of Spring Break next year (keeping in mind that I HAVE a DCL cruise booked for Presidents' Week - which is NOT a slow week by any stretch of the imagination). Princess, RCCL, and Celebrity for a 7-night cruise, ocean view cabin (to keep it equal-ish) were at least the same if not more than the Pres Week Wonder for a solo traveler. I have zero interest in Carnival and zero interest in NCL because I do not cruise for the bells and whistles and don't want to waste my money on ships geared towards that. I have cruised HAL and never again.

So... What's my breaking point with price? I don't know...but as a solo traveler there is a ways to go before I would think of permanently jumping ship. Especially with the rates so similar. I'll keep my Disney magic thank you.

 

[cruiser21]

A 6 day cruise on the Carnival Vista this October is 1500 ocean view, 8 day cruise on Carnival vista was 2200, Ncl was 2100 verandah , Oasis was 1700 central park balcony, and the Fantasy is 3,300 ocean view. This was for 2 people priced out a month or so ago. If I were to compare prices for 4 you would see a bigger spread. I've never seen the close prices people speak of. I wish! If the Fantasy was 2100 I'd book it in a heartbeat. I do think you have to compare the same week to get an apples to apples comparison. I would be curious to know if the Fantasy is the same price Spring break week as Royal or celebrity.

 

[Dug720]

A 6 day cruise on the Carnival Vista this October is 1500 ocean view, 8 day cruise on Carnival vista was 2200, Ncl was 2100 verandah , Oasis was 1700 central park balcony, and the Fantasy is 3,300 ocean view. This was for 2 people priced out a month or so ago. If I were to compare prices for 4 you would see a bigger spread. I've never seen the close prices people speak of. I wish! If the Fantasy was 2100 I'd book it in a heartbeat. I do think you have to compare the same week to get an apples to apples comparison. I would be curious to know if the Fantasy is the same price Spring break week as Royal or celebrity.

Zero interest in the Fantasy as it has given itself over to not true Disney that week.

 

[cruiser21]

Zero interest in the Fantasy as it has given itself over to not true Disney that week.

I was just asking since you were comparing prices. Are the other cruiselines the same price on Presidents week then?