Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Sandisw]

My question would be under the new contracts if the owner backed out and canceled my reservation would I get a refund or would I have to take a voucher?

I believe he offers only a voucher now.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I believe you are correct

 

[Disneykate605]

We had renters scheduled for March 15- 17th. The resort was open for their stay. I felt bad though and contacted David's to find out if there was anything I could do to help (they were points that were set to expire March 31st but I heard that DVC was unborrowing points so I figured I'd try to help.) I was actually out of town at the time and they said they would get in touch with me if they needed me and they said assume the renters are going. I called again and they said they would ask the renters. I again reached out to David's on the check in day and they told me that the renter did want to reschedule. When did they plan on telling me?? Anyway the dates the renter wanted weren't available so I stalked and got them. This all happened in the beginning of this mess and they let me reschedule for my original renter. The rescheduled date are during the closure (June 14-16). David's emailed me asking for 70% back or for me to re-rent the points. We actually were paid all of the money David's owed us because I reminded him in the beginning that the resort was open and it was there choice not to go.
I'm not sure what we want to do...we don't really want to deal with David's anymore I think the part of the renters contract that puts extra liability on the owner when it's not mentioned in the owner contract is super shady! We also could use those points now since there is a borrowing restriction in place. I think we actually fulfilled our contract since the resort was open for the original reservation but would feel bad about keeping all the money and the points. We are thinking of returning the 70% and keeping the 30% (I have spent so much time on hold, online & the phone with DVC for this rental). If we could reschedule the same renter we would do that but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It was only 46 points so it is not a ton of money we are talking about.
What does everyone think?

 

[Sandisw]

We had renters scheduled for March 15- 17th. The resort was open for their stay. I felt bad though and contacted David's to find out if there was anything I could do to help (they were points that were set to expire March 31st but I heard that DVC was unborrowing points so I figured I'd try to help.) I was actually out of town at the time and they said they would get in touch with me if they needed me and they said assume the renters are going. I called again and they said they would ask the renters. I again reached out to David's on the check in day and they told me that the renter did want to reschedule. When did they plan on telling me?? Anyway the dates the renter wanted weren't available so I stalked and got them. This all happened in the beginning of this mess and they let me reschedule for my original renter. The rescheduled date are during the closure (June 14-16). David's emailed me asking for 70% back or for me to re-rent the points. We actually were paid all of the money David's owed us because I reminded him in the beginning that the resort was open and it was there choice not to go.
I'm not sure what we want to do...we don't really want to deal with David's anymore I think the part of the renters contract that puts extra liability on the owner when it's not mentioned in the owner contract is super shady! We also could use those points now since there is a borrowing restriction in place. I think we could actually fulfilled our contract but would feel bad about keeping all the money and the points. We are thinking of returning the 70% and keeping the 30% (I have spent so much time on hold, online & the phone with DVC for this rental). If we could reschedule the same renter we would do that but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It was only 46 points so it is not a ton of money we are talking about.
What does everyone think?

My opinion...I’d say you already made the adjustment and that a 2nd closure the renter is out of luck,

Those are the terms of his new voucher. So, if it is good for him, it’s good for an owners..

 

[mcdanohio]

You have done more than enough, I would cut ties and keep the full payment from the contract.

 

[mcdanohio]

So I have been lurking on this thread for some time and finally registered just to respond.

As an owner I have rented my points to David's for many years, it has always worked out perfectly until COVID hit.

I know have 3 contracts that he choose to cancel even though there was no negligence on my part. He did pay me the final 30% after the first cancellation and has held the final 30% on the final 2. I am still holding 7 reservations for families with him and I have notified him that I expected the final 30% payment 45 days prior to check in as he now has a known issue of fulfilling contracts. If the final 30% is not paid 45 days prior then I will communicate with the renter and David's in an email and let them know the reservation will be canceled. I have to do what I can to protect myself and receive my money due as honestly I do not trust them at all.

They have sent a counter offer that they would pay me the final 30% if I rented the points again on the canceled reservations but withholding a single dollar per point to be paid at check in, I declined this offer as well.

I have been in contact with a lawyer (friend) and was advised that David's did not have a legal right to cancel any of the contracts and withhold the final payment. He also suggested that I amend the payment terms and send certified mail.

 

[dragonflymom]

I am still holding 7 reservations for families with him and I have notified him that I expected the final 30% payment 45 days prior to check in as he now has a known issue of fulfilling contracts. If the final 30% is not paid 45 days prior then I will communicate with the renter and David's in an email and let them know the reservation will be canceled.

I'm sorry but why would you break your contract and derail 7 other families' vacations? I understand you're upset about the other 3 reservations that were cancelled (by Disney) and not paid 30%, but why would you put this on 7 other innocent parties?

 

[starry_solo]

I'm sorry but why would you break your contract and derail 7 other families' vacations? I understand you're upset about the other 3 reservations that were cancelled (by Disney) and not paid 30%, but why would you put this on 7 other innocent parties?

Agreed. I doubt any attorney would tell you to break the other 7 contracts due to David's actions on the other 3.

 

[New Mouse]

I'm sorry but why would you break your contract and derail 7 other families' vacations? I understand you're upset about the other 3 reservations that were cancelled (by Disney) and not paid 30%, but why would you put this on 7 other innocent parties?

Because they can get their money back from.their credit card and the business in question (Davids) seems to be defaulting on his obligations.

 

[dragonflymom]

Because they can get their money back from.their credit card and the business in question (Davids) seems to be defaulting on his obligations.

What if the 7 families want to go on their vacation as planned and don't want their hard earned dollars held hostage by a dispute between an owner and David's over prior completely unrelated rentals?

 

[DisneyBB]

Because they can get their money back from.their credit card and the business in question (Davids) seems to be defaulting on his obligations.

The contract as an owner is very clear if the owner cancels they are liable for all costs. This could include airfares and other expenses. Not a good idea!

 

[Bearval]

I believe he offers only a voucher now.

That would such

The contract as an owner is very clear if the owner cancels they are liable for all costs. This could include airfares and other expenses. Not a good idea!

That is only if the owner signed one of the new contracts. Also I would be curious to know what would happen if an owner defaults on the new contract? It states the owner is liable but does it state who has to file legal action if the owner refuses to pay? To make it clear, I do not agree for someone to default a contract.

 

[CraigInPA]

Agreed. I doubt any attorney would tell you to break the other 7 contracts due to David's actions on the other 3.

Anticipatory breach is a situation where one party breaches the contract because the actions of the other party show a likelihood of the other party not fulfilling their obligations. In this case, David's refusal to pay the remaining required payments on 2 contracts puts the other 7 in jeopardy because it shows a pattern where David's is not fulfilling his part of the contract. Many attorneys will say you can cancel the other 7 to cut your losses, but they'll also tell you that you need to refund the 7 less the amount owed to you on the 2. Others will tell you to try to work it out, because the impact you create by cancelling 7 may lead to further litigation (especially if the renters don't get a full refund from David's per contract) which may be costly.

 

[New Mouse]

What if the 7 families want to go on their vacation as planned and don't want their hard earned dollars held hostage by a dispute between an owner and David's over prior completely unrelated rentals?

They didnt purchase the vacation from the owner, they purchased it from Davids. It is up to David to solve the problem in that case. His options are to pay the money owed to the owner as agreed, take the owner to court or find another solution for the renter.

He wants to be paid for being the middle man, this is what happens when you try to pass the buck like he has been.

 

[DisneyBB]

That would such

That is only if the owner signed one of the new contracts. Also I would be curious to know what would happen if an owner defaults on the new contract? It states the owner is liable but does it state who has to file legal action if the owner refuses to pay? To make it clear, I do not agree for someone to default a contract.

It’s is both contracts if the owner cancels the reservation the owner is liable. If the dvc resorts shuts then only in the new contract is the owner responsible.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

IMO the first contract would also require owners to pay for cancelling a reservation without agreement of the renter/David.

That is only if the owner signed one of the new contracts. Also I would be curious to know what would happen if an owner defaults on the new contract? It states the owner is liable but does it state who has to file legal action if the owner refuses to pay? To make it clear, I do not agree for someone to default a contract.

 

[renda460]

I don't think you are in the minority. Why do you think you are? I think nearly all of us will do the right thing. It's when points are lost that the decisions are harder.

I'm just curious if other owners have paid income taxes on the points they rented? I would consider refunding the money, however when I considered the maintenance fees already paid and income taxes already paid on this income, refunding would mean I would lose money in the end (points will expire in Nov and will likely be lost). Should the loss be on my part while the renters get a refund? If Davids were to take the 46% they still have from the reservation and refund it to the renters, then all 3 of us take a loss, but a much smaller one per party.

 

[Sharene0724]

IMO the first contract would also require owners to pay for cancelling a reservation without agreement of the renter/David.

The verbiage from the old contract does state owner is required to pay for cancelling without agreement. The below is from the old contract that I agreed to as an owner for a current rental with David's. This is why even though my current rental is in the period of time that the resorts are closed, I am waiting for Disney to cancel and am not touching the points at all until that happens.

"The DVC Owner further agrees with the Intermediary to make full restitution to the Intermediary and a guest with an active reservation for any and all costs related to a cancellation of that reservation caused by or relating to the failure of the DVC Owner to honour the reservation or otherwise not comply with any obligation or responsibility of the DVC Owner under this agreement including, without limitation, any legal fees, costs and expenses associated with the collection of said costs."

 

[DisneyBB]

IMO the first contract would also require owners to pay for cancelling a reservation without agreement of the renter/David.

Yes that is what I said or meant. That is why as an owner I have been very careful to arrange the alterations of my renters through David. Don't want any comeback on me. I still have the old contract and the new dates for the renters are under a new contract.

 

[Sharene0724]

I'm just curious if other owners have paid income taxes on the points they rented? I would consider refunding the money, however when I considered the maintenance fees already paid and income taxes already paid on this income, refunding would mean I would lose money in the end (points will expire in Nov and will likely be lost). Should the loss be on my part while the renters get a refund? If Davids were to take the 46% they still have from the reservation and refund it to the renters, then all 3 of us take a loss, but a much smaller one per party.

I paid taxes on mine, and I see your point on spreading the loss among the three parties. I think each situation is different and you have to do what is right for you, I don't judge anyone who keeps the money or pays it out. It's really an individual situation type decision.

I do wonder though how it affects the ability to rent with David's in the future. I may not like his new contract now but what if he changes it and goes back to the old or something similar? I might want to rent though him then. Do you think he puts anyone on a list where he wouldn't do business with them? That's the only thing that bothers me with the situation. Maybe I just need to go the private rental route through boards.