Dave Ramsey on DVC

[mz-s]

It's interesting to wonder how big that set is.

For example, I'm convinced one must understand (or at least appreciate) the time value of money to properly value any transaction--such as a loan or an investment--that takes place over time. Knowing this principle is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for financial literacy.

Take a random sample of 100 people. How many of them understand this?

Edited to add: I'm also reminded that I'm probably the last person who can rationally evaluate whether or not I "know how to spend correctly," because my emotions are also involved.

For one thing, people whose first question at the dealership is "how much a month?" typically would benefit from DR's advice.

 

[RoseGold]

Wow, actually listened to whole video and this is gross.

They are all worth zero except Disney??? Really??? Dave knows better than that. There are plenty of Marriotts and Hiltons and so on that are worth some cash. Misleading.

I can see why he doesn't go down the buy used route, but they don't all go to zero, that's just stupid. He's better at math than that.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I can see why he doesn't go down the buy used route, but they don't all go to zero, that's just stupid. He's better at math than that.

The math he's better at is the added click you just gave him, and how many of those clicks he needs to make the next dollar.

 

[mz-s]

Wow, actually listened to whole video and this is gross.

They are all worth zero except Disney??? Really??? Dave knows better than that. There are plenty of Marriotts and Hiltons and so on that are worth some cash. Misleading.

I can see why he doesn't go down the buy used route, but they don't all go to zero, that's just stupid. He's better at math than that.

In other videos about timeshares (I haven't watched this particular one), DR has mentioned Marriott and Hilton as similar to Disney in that they have resale value - but none of them are great investments which is where he is coming from.

 

[tom1944]

From looking at the recorded deeds over the past few months it appears that there is a subset of DVC purchasers where they have been great investments.

They buy rent and ultimately sell and they are doing so in a volume that would lead one to believe the return makes this all worthwhile.

But I guess that is a different meaning than most people mean by “owning a timeshare is not an investment”.

 

[Brian Noble]

They buy rent and ultimately sell and they are doing so in a volume that would lead one to believe the return makes this all worthwhile.

The market under-values loaded contracts. Likewise, the market over-values stripped ones. DVC also allows more or less unlimited exceptions to the "one transfer" rule as long as both contracts are owned by the same person.

It's not hard to see how to fit those three facts together into a business model that gets exceptional returns on deployed capital vs. most other timeshare rentals. And it's a lot better than a strict buy-to-rent, because in the latter case you have to hold the contract which ties up the purchase capital.

I suspect some of those folks got spooked about having to catch a falling knife during the recent price drop (if you've seen the movie Margin Call you know what I mean here) but now that things seem to have stabilized a bit, they are probably sleeping a little bit easier.

Edited to add: It would not surprise me if the "guaranteed sale" model that some resale-but-also-rental brokers are using is an acquisition front-end to exactly this idea.

Edited again: You can even do a smaller version of this using only borrowing, and not depending on transfer. But, then you have to hold the contract until after the booked trip, so it is not as efficient.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Anybody see this one posted yesterday? I am fully aware that it's hard to be objective while you are INSIDE of a cult than out. (Yes, I'm comparing DVC to kind of being in a cult, but in a good way .) I never considered my DVC forays as a bad financial decision since we love Disney so much. But with the recent unfavorable announcement of the really high Transient Tax at VDH, and this ongoing DeSantis/Disney fight over Reedy Creek, is there any merit to this guy's claim that our MF's can double or triple if Disney loses this fight? I'll caveat by saying that I have no idea how credible this guy really is. He might just well be another shady predator who runs a timeshare exit business.

 

[Nursemanit]

Anybody see this one posted yesterday? I am fully aware that it's hard to be objective while you are INSIDE of a cult than out. (Yes, I'm comparing DVC to kind of being in a cult, but in a good way .) I never considered my DVC forays as a bad financial decision since we love Disney so much. But with the recent unfavorable announcement of the really high Transient Tax at VDH, and this ongoing DeSantis/Disney fight over Reedy Creek, is there any merit to this guy's claim that our MF's can double or triple if Disney loses this fight? I'll caveat by saying that I have no idea how credible this guy really is. He might just well be another shady predator who runs a timeshare exit business.

That guy hates disney - and does not even know how taxes are levied. I would not waste the time on his “ theories”

 

[HIRyeDVC]

That guy hates disney - and does not even know how taxes are levied. I would not waste the time on his “ theories”

good to know. btw, what the heck is happening to my properties in my signature?

 

[Brian Noble]

is there any merit to this guy's claim that our MF's can double or triple if Disney loses this fight?

I don't know, but I bet his video is very compelling and riddled with advertisements. /s

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I don't know, but I bet his video is very compelling and riddled with advertisements. /s

Kinda like this board? What forum or medium is NOT riddled with ads these days?

 

[DonMacGregor]

good to know. btw, what the heck is happening to my properties in my signature?

The links to wherever those images are hosted is broken.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

The links to wherever those images are hosted is broken.

can you help me in getting some new images like your nice ones?

 

[mz-s]

As a rule I don't watch youtube videos with clickbait titles like that. In the past they were never worth the time.

 

[Brian Noble]

What forum or medium is NOT riddled with ads these days?

I really like CoasterBuzz, a "general theme park" board. They have a model where for $25/year you get no ads (plus a few other unimportant things), or you can pay nothing but get ads. I love that model, and am happy to pay up. The site's owner likes the model too.

I also am a big fan of the ad-free D+ tier (even though management would rather I move to the ad-supported tier), and its ilk (Netflix, HBOMax, etc.)

But, more seriously: that video is a gasbag-vehicle of provocative crap that has no basis in truth, generated only for clicks. Sort of like the Disney board that purposefully writes clickbait headlines that are at best in the same time zone as the actual article. For example, their recent headline "National Security Threat Reported at EPCOT" was attached to an article describing how the Russian pavilion didn't happen but the Chinese pavilion did back in 1970-whatever.

That Disney board has auto-play video ads too. The 11th Commandment should have been "though shalt not auto-play."

 

[tjkraz]

Anybody see this one posted yesterday?

Must...stop...self...from...commenting...

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Must...stop...self...from...commenting...

please do! I want to hear more feedback on this. ugghh, my signature is really bothering me....

 

[BleuB]

please do! I want to hear more feedback on this. ugghh, my signature is really bothering me....

I don't know what yours looked like previously but there are images on the DVC website under the (edit) book a resort section that lead to a photo you can link in your sig.

 

[tjkraz]

please do! I want to hear more feedback on this. ugghh, my signature is really bothering me....

The viewer comments are really just a lot of the same anti-timeshare rhetoric which is either marginally applicable to DVC or generally misguided in their thinking.

The biggest thing is when you add up all the costs plus the taxes and get to a pretty big number only to realize that after the 50 year term you will own nothing!!! Even the cheapest plan of 150 points still put you well into and over the $100,000 range.

1) How much time are you getting at DVC resorts over 50 years for that $100k and how does it compare to what a cash guest would spend on the same thing?

2) Who wants to own a timeshare that's more than 50 years old?

I witnessed my parents having to deal with timeshares. We used them twice and the first time was a special deal they gave people to trick them into the program. The rest of the time was spent trying to get out of the system. The Disney version of timeshares sounds like legalized theft.

The taxes alone are going to cost about the same as 3 nights in a normal hotel room. This is an insanely horrible deal.

Love the cheesy mobile gaming MTX system they have there. You buy points, that come in bundles. Those bundles and the price of items are strangely out of sinc. You get 150 points, it cost 147. Do points roll over? Maybe but you're almost always left with spare points that you can't spend on anything to push you to buy more points.

No

I considered DVC almost 20 years ago but could never justify the expense. It’s absurd how much they want you to pay, yet you never actually own the timeshare to leave to family in the future. Besides, my desire to visit WDW has declined significantly in the last few years. If I had bought into it years ago, I’d probably be trying to sell it now.

Yeah, and you'd be making a healthy profit off selling it today, not counting all of the discounted trips you'd have taken. But, you be you...

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

This is the part of it that makes him in on it, in my opinion. You're right, maybe he didn't vet them initially and was just ignorant of what they were while he took their money. I can't condemn him for that. But then it becomes painfully obvious to everyone that they are a borderline criminal outfit (if not outright criminal) with thier lies, deception, and thievery, and Ramsey just kept doubling down in his support of them. That's the point, in my opinion, where Ramsey crosses the line.

Many of Ramsey's "trusted providers" are just advertisers. I've heard so many horror stories that it is clear he is not vetting anything beyond the check clearing.

Wow, actually listened to whole video and this is gross.

They are all worth zero except Disney??? Really??? Dave knows better than that. There are plenty of Marriotts and Hiltons and so on that are worth some cash. Misleading.

I can see why he doesn't go down the buy used route, but they don't all go to zero, that's just stupid. He's better at math than that.

Dave is personal finance for people who need the basics. Many of the things he says are suboptimal for segments of the population but he wants the simplest path for his audience so they do not get analysis paralysis.

For example, "debt bad" works better than "you can probably invest if the interest rate is below 4% and you are controlling yourself" because the latter has too much nuance.

But with the recent unfavorable announcement of the really high Transient Tax at VDH, and this ongoing DeSantis/Disney fight over Reedy Creek, is there any merit to this guy's claim that our MF's can double or triple if Disney loses this fight?

You can see the portion of your annual dues that is going to property taxes on your annual dues statement. SSR is $1.3576 of the $7.8622 2023 annual dues. I didn't watch the video but I don't see how the dues could double or triple due to taxes (doubling of dues would require a 679% increase in property taxes).