DAS fair or not fair

[lanejudy]

requiring a certificate from a GP which states ‘I confirm that X has a disability as defined by YZ Act’ doesn’t seem too much of an imposition to me.

I think if they really wanted to, Disney could ask for proof of disability, however this could cause a lot of logistical problems for Disney because of HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act), which guarantees a patient’s right to privacy. They would have to train cast members on HIPAA compliance, and be extremely diligent to ensure guest privacy.

This is such a common misunderstanding. HIPAA has nothing to do with this situation. HIPAA pertains to healthcare providers, medical facilities, organizations that work with private medical information (such as insurance claims). I can choose to tell WDW or anybody else about my needs, diagnoses, treatments, etc. - or not. My choice. HIPAA doesn't come into it at all.

As far as I know, there is no central body in the US that determines who is disabled -- at least, not in a way that would be meaningful to a theme park.

Exactly. This is one key factor that differentiates the U.S. from many other countries with regards to disabilities. There is no one single recognized "definition" of disability in the U.S. There is no way to easily determine "fake" letters or documentation because there is no organization that registers/tracks/identifies either the individuals or their diagnosing/treating medical providers.

I know enough about this. The US Dept of Justice does state that a business or employer can’t require specific indication of a disability for a service animal. However, the handler can be asked about the specific service that the animal provides. Some people confuse this with other accommodations for disabilities.

No. Unrelated to service dogs, the ADA doesn't allow for requiring proof of disability to gain accommodation for equal access. Proof can be provided for enhanced access or any accommodation that would otherwise require a monetary fee to a non-disabled person.

 

[MarkLT1]

This is such a common misunderstanding. HIPAA has nothing to do with this situation. HIPAA pertains to healthcare providers, medical facilities, organizations that work with private medical information (such as insurance claims). I can choose to tell WDW or anybody else about my needs, diagnoses, treatments, etc. - or not. My choice. HIPAA doesn't come into it at all.

One thing I've wondered- if WDW (or any organization for that matter) is requesting documentation on an individual's health information, is that organization subject to any laws/regulations regarding protecting the privacy of said individual's provided data?

 

[Mamabun]

One thing I've wondered- if WDW (or any organization for that matter) is requesting documentation on an individual's health information, is that organization subject to any laws/regulations regarding protecting the privacy of said individual's provided data?

If they chose to store the health information, there are privacy laws, not HIPAA, to which they would be subject. But for that exact reason, I can't imagine why an organization would chose to store health info, rather than just store a 'disability verified by documentation' checkbox.

 

[lanejudy]

One thing I've wondered- if WDW (or any organization for that matter) is requesting documentation on an individual's health information, is that organization subject to any laws/regulations regarding protecting the privacy of said individual's provided data?

They aren't subject to HIPAA. Once you (the patient) share it outside of the healthcare setting, it's sort like sharing any other personal information. They should certainly be careful about retaining copies of documentation, and in my experience many only look at it but don't keep a copy on file.

ETA: @Mamabun and I were replying at the same time!

 

[MarkLT1]

Gotcha. I was under the impression that HIPPA (or perhaps it is another health-based privacy law) also required that there be an expectation of privacy while speaking about health data (e.g.- the reason for 'please stand behind this line to give the person in front of you privacy' while checking in at a doctors office). So I've wondered if an organization like WDW, would need to abide by those same sorts of privacy requirements (i.e.- provide appropriate privacy when speaking to a CM about your health condition to get your DAS approval). Not exactly a high hurdle to get over. Just a curiosity of mine.

 

[5kidsmommy]

I think the lawsuits are absurd. My youngest son is autistic and we have used DAS. It’s a wonderful program and we use it with FP+. He is older and understands the whole process. For him waiting is not an issue, it’s waiting with people. WDW is extremely overwhelming for him but he loves it. We usually only can go for a few hours at a time, so we use DAS for one possibly two rides.

We don’t want special access, I merely want him to enjoy the parks. Disney can’t take away his disability. Even with DAS he can’t be a park commando and that’s totally fine. I am grateful for what Disney does do, I personally think they go above and beyond for guests with disabilities.

I really hope these people suing lose.

 

[bcla]

One thing I've wondered- if WDW (or any organization for that matter) is requesting documentation on an individual's health information, is that organization subject to any laws/regulations regarding protecting the privacy of said individual's provided data?

The businesses I’ve heard of that ask for some medical documentation don’t specifically ask for a medical diagnosis. They only ask for a letter from a medical professional stating that whatever program is requested will help the patient with the underlying condition. I’m trying to figure out what Six Flags has as a policy because their FAQ mentions bringing a doctor’s note to initially register for their “Attractions Access Pass”. I remember reading where they asked for this note that outlined that the guest would be aided by the pass. However, they now seem to work with the International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards to issue a special access card, and where Six Flags doesn’t receive any specific information about the underlying condition. They’re an organization that does training and certifications regarding autism. If anything, I would think they would be as much subject to HIPAA as any other medical organization.

https://www.sixflags.com/magicmountain/plan-your-visit/guests-with-disabilities
Also, Disney wasn’t the first to implement the “virtual queue” for disability access. Cedar Fair started implementing it a few months earlier.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-fair-kings-island-autistic-children/2420127/

 

[piccolopat]

I remember some of the complaints on Disboards from parents of autistic kids were that the GAC allowed them to visit in a way that their kids could handle. The claim was that their kids couldn’t handle a 12 hour day where they would need to wait between rides, but could handle the equivalent of maybe a dozen rides in two or three hours. Something about having to keep the day short in order to reduce the chance of a meltdown.

Many families with young kids, elderly or even mobility disabled also can't stay in the parks all day. Same goes for people with an afternoon flight home. Should all of those people get front of the line access?

 

[5kidsmommy]

Many families with young kids, elderly or even mobility disabled also can't stay in the parks all day. Same goes for people with an afternoon flight home. Should all of those people get front of the line access?

Exactly! And thats why I actually like the DAS program over the older program. We have worked really hard over the years with our son to help him function in society. Waiting is part of life.With DAS the individual doesn't even have to go to the ride to get a return time, another member of the party can go. My son usually goes with us to get his return time but on past trips I have gone and he's stayed with my husband due to being close to having a meltdown.Traveling with individuals with special needs requires flexibilitly and the lowering of expectations. Once again I will just add DIsney goes above and beyond. Heck our last trip our son was done within 15 minutes of being seated for dinner at a buffet. We had to leave. The server went and spoke to a supervisor. My husband and our other child got their food, I took my son outside. THe server then got a box and filled it with a selection of foods for my son. I didn't expect that but they wanted him to get the meal we had paid for. Little things like that are why we continue to go Disney, they allow us to have a normalish trip because sometimes everyday life can be tough.

I was reading an article on the disability board about testimony from the mom in the lawsuit and I'll just say wow, entitled much. Seriously she gives parents of autistic individuals a bad name.

 

[MillauFr]

I cannot understand why Disney could not ask for proof of disability.

Not sure how that would solve anything. You would end up have plenty of people who don't know you have to show "proof" and being turned away. Plus you would have plenty of others who would just print up a fake doctor's note.

 

[MillauFr]

We have no problem with the DAS system. Our son has Downs Syndrome and it works great for us. He likes to take the "fill in all of the dead space" directions literally on every ride. Vast majority of people turn around when he bumps into them and understand.

 

[sk8jdgca]

Qualifying for a DAS is not based on diagnosis. It is based on needs. Two people with the same diagnosis (on paper) might have totally different needs when it comes to accommodations. Therefore, someone requesting a DAS has to explain why it would help their individual situation. The CMs will ask the appropriate questions and assess whether or not the person qualifies for DAS. It's hard for anyone to predict whether someone else's particular situation will qualify.

That is what I thought. This woman was saying that since her child is type 1 she will automatically get DAS and wanted to know how to load all the DAS rides on her magic band before she left. She seemed to think it will give them unlimited no line access

 

[RangerPooh]

I think the current DAS system is fair. We've used it when traveling with friends who son is special needs and the alternative waiting area is great. You can use that time as your family needs. Whether it's the restroom, a quiet space, or to go on something different if they've changed their mind. It provides flexibility.

The problem is not with the program, it's with entitled individuals and those who view that it is a front of the line pass.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

One thing I never see mentioned is how our cultural shift toward inclusion and acceptance plus the internet have dramatically increased the number of people who know about and are willing to ask for accommodations. While I think acceptance and knowledge are fantastic, it also means that giving unlimited accommodations to that many people impacts the experience for all. Rides don’t have infinite capacity.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think if they really wanted to, Disney could ask for proof of disability, however this could cause a lot of logistical problems for Disney because of HIPAA

Um, that's not really what HIPAA regulates https://www.hipaajournal.com/who-does-hipaa-apply-to/ notably "HIPAA applies to healthcare providers, health plans, and healthcare clearinghouses if those organizations transmit health data electronically in connection with transactions for which the Department of Health and Human Services has adopted standards."

 

[Renarr]

My DW used DAS after a long-term medical event in 2015. Were cleared to go to WDW in 2016, and had no problems getting or using the DAS in 2016. In 2017, we had a poor experience with the CM issuing the DAS: the tone seemed to disbelieve our claims and experiences, I think in part because the specific accommodation was unusual (post-medical event, she has trouble waiting in dark spaces for long periods of time because her eyes adjust substantially slower than most) and in part because she presents as fully functioning. I know I was taken aback by the substantial skepticism in CM's tone.

As a result, we stopped using DAS after our 2017 visit (while she has recovered some, there is still substantial difficulty, but I can't talk her into it), and we now just book our FASTPASS+ rides differently (we are probably among the few people who use a FASTPASS+ on the Epcot Nemo ride, and while often the lines are short enough where it would be unnecessary, it's a must-ride for her and we'd rather not chance it).

There was definitely an advantage piece (how much is debatable) to the DAS: we were able to use it for Frozen (which is about the boundary of uncomfortable for her these days) about a week after it came out and ate dinner during the queue of about 150 minutes. For any new ride like that, I can't see how they could make DAS a completely equal experience, and it's probably the most reasonable compromise they could come up with.

As far as the case goes, I've been following the case on the multiple threads here about it, and I think the plaintiffs are unreasonable. The DAS system is imperfect, but pretty reasonable, and at least as far as our experience goes, the only thing that was really needed was better CM training.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I think it works well the way it is, honestly. Although my family doesn't have to deal with this. We did have a family member in a wheelchair during part of one trip, but didn't consider unfair we couldn't go to the front of the line.

 

[Aladora]

I think the lawsuits are absurd. My youngest son is autistic and we have used DAS. It’s a wonderful program and we use it with FP+. He is older and understands the whole process. For him waiting is not an issue, it’s waiting with people. WDW is extremely overwhelming for him but he loves it. We usually only can go for a few hours at a time, so we use DAS for one possibly two rides.

We don’t want special access, I merely want him to enjoy the parks. Disney can’t take away his disability. Even with DAS he can’t be a park commando and that’s totally fine. I am grateful for what Disney does do, I personally think they go above and beyond for guests with disabilities.

I really hope these people suing lose.

This is pretty much everything I would have posted. We have been taking our DS to DL since he was 6 (he is almost 15 now) and we have used both the old GAC and the newer DAS. For us, the DAS used in conjunction with FP works really well. We are not rope drop to close kind of people and we still take a mid-day break every day we are there but the DAS along with FP allows us to get on the attractions we want to and not overwhelm him with having to wait with so many people in a tight space. Our most recent trip in August 2019 we only used the DAS on one or two attractions the entire trip but it was great to have it there if needed.

 

[bcla]

This is pretty much everything I would have posted. We have been taking our DS to DL since he was 6 (he is almost 15 now) and we have used both the old GAC and the newer DAS. For us, the DAS used in conjunction with FP works really well. We are not rope drop to close kind of people and we still take a mid-day break every day we are there but the DAS along with FP allows us to get on the attractions we want to and not overwhelm him with having to wait with so many people in a tight space. Our most recent trip in August 2019 we only used the DAS on one or two attractions the entire trip but it was great to have it there if needed.

In some ways I think it might work to be able to us FP, although that can get really difficult for some rides that are really popular. At least with DAS it's possible to get in some ride time for someone who might not want to deal with a long line at the entrance.

 

[MarkLT1]

In some ways I think it might work to be able to us FP, although that can get really difficult for some rides that are really popular. At least with DAS it's possible to get in some ride time for someone who might not want to deal with a long line at the entrance.

I hope I am just misinterpreting your post, but if not.. the point of DAS is not for people "might not want to deal with a long line at the entrance" rather it is intended for people who literally can't get through a long line due to a medical issue.