DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[jennab]

I’ve been reading posts all day. I kind of wonder if they are denying more APs than others? It seems like in an AP FB group there are a lot of denials, many being adults. Maybe they are trying to curb abuse of APs who can bring friends vs the family that comes once a year or once every few years and uses it for only a week with their immediate family. Guess we will have to wait and we if there is any sort of consistency as people post their stories. We aren’t going until 2025 so the rules may change by then.

 

[Jellybean9]

Let’s be honest, providing accommodations for those that need it isn’t Disney’s primary motivation either, their motivation is to make more money off of Genie+, otherwise they would go back to offering some form of free Fastpass/Lightning Lane/whatever, perhaps with paid upgrades to the service. This would be the fastest way to reduce abuse of the system and make it work. Remember Fastpass+ worked most of the time quite well for a long time and was free for everyone, it can be done.

Defunctland has a close to 2 hr documentary on why Fastpass+ didn’t work. It was actually just up for a Peabody award.

 

[jason423]

This is exactly my point - I realize today is the first day and I'm sure all of the new Accessibility CMs were probably under a lot of pressure and stressed from talking to a lot of people today, but there seems to be a priority on pushing people away from DAS and in some cases they are not applying common sense. The 5 year old example may just be an error of the CM's part but the epilepsy one was also disturbing to read. The person mentioned they had multiple people on the zoom call, one of them was apparently a psychologist? I believe it was the psychologist who said that the person could use the return to queue option for epilepsy.

These were just 2 of the denial stories that stuck out in my head today. I'm sure in the coming days and weeks we'll hear from more people and hopefully Disney will be reviewing some of these cases and hopefully re-evaluate their training.

But it is disconcerting to hear these stories.

Hopefully these are the most negative times with this. It is a new system and I am sure that as you said that they are under tremendous pressure to just not give the DAS pass out and don't get into making exceptions. Just make it a firm no with mention of an alternative option. I think over time they will be more lax with this especially if the return to the line option ends up being a mess. My assumption is they will be reviewing all of these calls and concerns and develop strategies to respond to these better on a case by case basis.

 

[Chuckdlc]

I LOL every time someone says Universal requires “medical proof”. People got approved by the outfit that vets for UOR by submitting things like a handicap placard, my fav is a single page of an IEP- there isn’t even a doctor involved in one of those. If Disney did something like that the program would implode on itself in less than 6 months.

I know you're not trying to offend anyone but as the parent of a child with an IEP which is based on medical diagnosis from a doctor, try to remember that your understanding of what can be in an IEP and what may actually be in an IEP may not be the same.

Yes, IEPs can be based on a statistical differential between cognitive ability and actual testing performance, but they can and often are also be based on medical issues diagnosed by "a doctor".

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I’ve been reading posts all day. I kind of wonder if they are denying more APs than others? It seems like in an AP FB group there are a lot of denials, many being adults. Maybe they are trying to curb abuse of APs who can bring friends vs the family that comes once a year or once every few years and uses it for only a week with their immediate family. Guess we will have to wait and we if there is any sort of consistency as people post their stories. We aren’t going until 2025 so the rules may change by then.

I see this theory as at least plausible, denying someone who goes 100 days a year frees up 20x the LL capacity as someone who goes 5 days a year. (I also think the DAS system made our experience SO much better than Genie+ that we decided to upgrade to APs and go more often, so there might be a correlation that isn’t necessarily causation.)

I’d also add that APs might just be motivated to get the registration anxiety out of the way ASAP for the next 120 days and can pick their 30 day date, so they were more likely to call today… I’m sure there are a lot of other theories I haven’t thought of (and there’s a few I can think of but won’t say because I don’t want to spend my evening fighting with people on this board).

 

[Jellybean9]

That makes your motivation clear. It is not that your primary interest is in providing appropriate services to the disabled. It is your belief that this impedes your access to the LL and you resent it…. because you paid and they didn’t… believe that Disney can address their needs without impinging on your experience. So it is self interest… which is fine when it’s you. But not when it’s someone else who is articulating self interest. When others offer alternative experiences you are conveniently dismissive… as though yours is the only one that is valid. Because it’s really you and your experience.
And you project that… my relative sat on a bench and was happy as we used our Genie + to have a swell time going from attraction to attraction. That is not the experience of the most DAS families… again and again people have posted the struggle…how few rides they can do, leaving the park. You have none of that anxiety before or during your trip.

I’m genuinely concerned how this will affect families… most of whom “pay” for their disabilities every single day… and with the worry and emotional toll it takes. I’m praying that this place can remain a refuge of happiness and escape from the day to day challenges… for the children and the child in all of us.

Someone a few pages back posted how they were warming up their vocal cords to say “Siri, set a 10 min timer” inferring they would be maximizing their DAS to the fullest extent possible. While you may be an example of a DAS user who rode very few attractions, I think a significant portion of DAS users over the past two years were taking full advantage of the possibilities presented by the access granted.

 

[jason423]

Won’t getting Genie+ help with riding the headliners? Or rope dropping?

For some the cost of the Genie+ is an issue and rope dropping is not for everyone. Genie+ also is not a great system if you don't know the ins and outs of it, at least how it is currently set up. Now if availability changes because the LL was really over 50% DAS maybe the Genie+ will be more useful but on our trips where we have used it, the headline rides are closed off so early at most parks that it is almost a waste on many days.

 

[jennab]

I see this theory as at least plausible, denying someone who goes 100 days a year frees up 20x the LL capacity as someone who goes 5 days a year. (I also think the DAS system made our experience SO much better than Genie+ that we decided to upgrade to APs and go more often, so there might be a correlation that isn’t necessarily causation.

I’d also add that APs might just be motivated to get the registration anxiety out of the way ASAP for the next 120 days and can pick their 30 day date, so they were more likely to call today… I’m sure there are a lot of other theories I haven’t thought of (and there’s a few I can think of but won’t say because I don’t want to spend my evening fighting with people on this board).

Yes I’m guessing most reports today were from APs because they can go anytime, whereas people going on a once in a great while trip but not be 30 days out yet. It will be interesting to follow along and see what people report.
I saw one post of an AP saying she could be approved but only when she brings her 2yr old, and not when she goes with friends as her friend can wait in line and she can join later. I mean I kind of get it, sucks to have to be separated from your traveling party but it is an accommodation….

 

[Liquidice]

Thought this was useful information posted on another forum. The poster claims to be a CM in Park Operations. I say claim, because it seems like anything that gets posted recently comes with a grain of salt when people don't agree with it, personally I believe that the person is a CM. Some of the below information is already well known such as the 10 minute "cool down" after using a DAS return time before you can get another DAS return time.

There is some explanation on how the queue re-entry will work and it reflects how I described it earlier with meeting at the merge point, but they also mention another version where some of the party immediately waits outside of the queue and then meets the rest of their party at the merge point, allowing everyone to at least ride together.

Also Rider Swap is mentioned as being an option and lastly they describe a "return to queue" option that works like the old DAS where you ask for a return time based on the current wait time in person at each individual ride, but this seems to be very limited and up to each CM at the ride on whether to issue one to you. But this potentially could be an option for people going solo that were not offered DAS or for the person who was traveling with their 5 year old grandchild - even though I know most of you seem to think this was made up.

Here is what I will say as far as what ppl who work in operations have to go off of right now:

DAS program is entirely run through Disney Central now. Guest Relations has ZERO access to DAS. For either granting passes or adding people to an existing pass. The most that guest relations can do is set you up with a video chat to a Disney Central CM. No exceptions to this are possible because only Disney Central CM's within the DAS team have access.

They are not going to give DAS out just by saying "ADHD" or "Autism." It's supposed to work like understanding why the person needs specifically DAS. But it's essentially geared only towards developmental disabilities. But they probably don't want to give it out to a 24 year old who has a college degree and a full time job as a barista, but also has documented ADHD. Why do you need it? Explain? That's the main thing in getting one once you are past the "developmental disabilities" threshold.

Front line CM'S at attractions have other options for those who don't have a DAS pass but come up and ask if they can use lightning lane for x, y, z, etc.

Options include:

Advising guests in parties of 2 or more to form a "buffer" around someone with claustrophobia or anxiety while waiting in standby. Because of this, property wide there is to be a removal of CM language involving "move all the way forward in line..." so there isn't any encouragement to crowd each other. Just to focus on moving forward.

If they need to use the restroom they are welcome to leave at any time and can flag down a cast member and their party can wait in the line for them to return. But the most accommodation they will get in this regard is to come back in through the lightning lane to find their party. Not skipping to the exit to meet them unless their bathroom emergency happens right before getting on the ride or something. But those accommodations already happen in those situations.

There is also another version, where let's say there is a party of 4 and one of the kids(or an adult) doesn't have a DAS pass and they just can't wait in the standby line. So, the person who can't wait is allowed to wait outside the ride with maximum 1 other member of the party while the other ppl go into the standby line and then when they get to the merge point(where LL joins standby) they can tell the merge CM that they have ppl outside and the merge CM will let them wait in a designated area at merge while the party members(not the CM!!!) Will call the rest of their party that is outside and tell them to come meet them. Then the greeter CM will let them in and they will still have to wait in the LL and join their party at merge to then continue. This option is a much longer wait than just standby obviously.

Rider switch as it currently exists is also a viable option for the CM's to suggest.

If none of these things work, CM's can give out the "return to queue" passes. But CM's have to sign into the podiums or iPads when they are in charge of the scanners or issuing redemptions. And Disney will be heavily auditing when these passes are given out. CM's better have a good reason to give one out and it's been made clear that if they even remotely question how many you are issuing, you will have to explain yourself in a formal meeting/investigation. Basically, CM's aren't going to give these out like candy unless they are stupid. Abd it's not even a good option, cause it's essentially DAS but you have to physically walk to the ride and you are beholden to your pass being based on the posted wait time. And if you are getting tons of these passes all the time, Disney is gonna know and will follow up(tour guides/influencer prevention), because they aren't a DAS alternative. It's a different accommodation.

As you can probably tell, none of these are as good as DAS and all of them are less convenient than just waiting in standby in terms of time. But they are accommodations. Disney seems to be hoping that none of these see heavy use by those that don't need them because they aren't better than standby.
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As for changes to DAS, one thing is that after you scan in to your ride you will have to wait 10 minutes to book your next one. This is to reduce the advantage of the system and try to curb the ability to be in the LL for one ride and by the time you are off your ride you already have your next one ready to scan.
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Everything that isn't the virtual meetings is coming down on the CM's who work on the frontline. Some agree with the changes, some don't. None of them are adversarial to guests needs, but this is essentially the framework in place now that they have to work in. Try to keep that in mind when visiting. And know again that the sheer amount of LL usage via the DAS system was out of control as many in here have expertly laid out. It couldn't continue as it was. I'm not saying these are the correct changes. But I am saying it's no shock Disney did something.

It was also stressed to CM's that Disney is listening and will be constantly willing to tweak the alternate accommodations other than DAS and co tinuing to tweak how DAS works. And the accommodations will probably become different based on the realities of each individual ride's operation. This is just the starting point. So make your voices heard!

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Except your extension of that analogy is disengenous. There is enough of the accomodation to go around. It's worked for years, and only once Disney started getting greedy, has it become such a big

Does Disney want to make more money? Absolutely. But those if us who have been around here forever can tell you that even when FP was free, complaints about FP line waits getting longer have been floating around since the internet has started teaching people how to work the systems Disney had in place at the time. In 2 years we will be used to the new normal, just like we were after DAS 1.0 replaced GAC.

Disney wants to make more money, because that’s what their shareholders demand. And if they can’t get average park goers to attend, have a good time and tell their friends who then go spend money, they won’t make more money. The alternative is they charge an even higher exhorbitant amount to cater to a smaller population of those who need accommodations, and those already pay more in their day to day lives for therapies, equipment and medical care. They need the average Joe to have a good enough experience to keep coming back and convince their friends to as well to be able to grow their revenue.

And I say this as someone who has medical concerns, children with developmental disabilities, and a sibling who can no longer visit Disney because it is not reasonable to expect them to accommodate his intensive needs. I don’t know if myself or my kids will qualify any longer. If we don’t, we will make the best of the trip and then go elsewhere.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I saw one post of an AP saying she could be approved but only when she brings her 2yr old, and not when she goes with friends as her friend can wait in line and she can join later. I mean I kind of get it, sucks to have to be separated from your traveling party but it is an accommodation….

Sounds like Disney is being very reasonable, coming up with accommodations tailored to different situations. While the old-style DAS may be the best solution for an adult traveling with a 2-year old, it may well not be necessary for a bunch of adult friends traveling together.

 

[notatallmagic]

Won’t getting Genie+ help with riding the headliners? Or rope dropping?

Thanks for asking. Not particularly in our case.

Each day is unpredictable, so rope dropping doesn't typically work. We also need to map out each day in advance pretty much minute by minute. We need to plan for temperature, shade, restrooms, food, and medical treatments. Genie is just too unpredictable.

 

[Jellybean9]

For some the cost of the Genie+ is an issue and rope dropping is not for everyone. Genie+ also is not a great system if you don't know the ins and outs of it, at least how it is currently set up. Now if availability changes because the LL was really over 50% DAS maybe the Genie+ will be more useful but on our trips where we have used it, the headline rides are closed off so early at most parks that it is almost a waste on many days.

They said they’re AP holders with 5 prepaid trips and years of experience going to the parks. One would think they could figure out Genie+ enough to book a few of the coveted attractions. I could see this being an issue for a novice.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I know you're not trying to offend anyone but as the parent of a child with an IEP which is based on medical diagnosis from a doctor, try to remember that your understanding of what can be in an IEP and what may actually be in an IEP may not be the same.

Yes, IEPs can be based on a statistical differential between cognitive ability and actual testing performance, but they can and often are also be based on medical issues diagnosed by "a doctor".

Many IEPs are done without doctors. That’s reality. As such I’d be annoyed as all get out in your shoes that a single IEP page is acceptable. Listen, we had a person who submitted lots of stuff from an IEP who was denied. Their screw up? They were trying to give a full picture. The outfit didn’t give a darn about medical anything, they need to check the box. When they resubmitted just the one page they were good to go. They couldn’t care less about the reality of what’s in it or how it came to be. It’s a box to check, that is all. Submit it right and your gold. Submit it wrong with all the doctors in the world advocating your cause and you’re out.

As such I hold, one page of an IEP is a ridiculous way to justify a medical diagnosis.

 

[jennab]

Sounds like Disney is being very reasonable, coming up with accommodations tailored to different situations. While the old-style DAS may be the best solution for an adult traveling with a 2-year old, it may well not be necessary for a bunch of adult friends traveling together.

I agree. Although not sure how they flag someone’s account as only getting DAS if traveling with a minor.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I agree. Although not sure how they flag someone’s account as only getting DAS if traveling with a minor.

Edit to answer question with how it could work—a flag for “no other adults” or “own children only”— as of today, only centralized accommodation team can add or remove people to DAS parties. It will notify the other cast members on that team that the DAS user successfully argued other accommodations wouldn’t work because they were alone (or with small children), so other adults can’t be added… this kind of limitation for adults will DRASTICALLY disincentivize abuse and misuse… unless it becomes common enough that each misuse/abuser individually fakes requests.

 

[Liquidice]

I read an article that says the newly updated Terms and Conditions you must agree to when applying for DAS says that regardless of the outcome of the DAS call, you must agree not to create or join a Class Action Lawsuit against Disney.

The specific language is:

I understand that after an individualized decision regarding my personal circumstances I may be offered DAS, alternative accommodations, or no accommodations at all. I agree that any lawsuit I may file, or participate in, challenging this decision, the individualized discussion, or the overall process itself, shall be conducted only on an individual basis and not as a plaintiff or class member in a purported class, consolidated or representative action or proceeding.

I wonder if it is really legally binding for Disney to say you cannot even apply for DAS unless you agree not to create or join a class action lawsuit against them?

 

[Liquidice]

I agree. Although not sure how they flag someone’s account as only getting DAS if traveling with a minor.

I believe I read (in this thread) that if you need to change the party members in your DAS that you must go through the approval process all over again.

That is the simple / easy way to deal with this. If the person has to change their party members, then they re-apply for DAS, and the CM will not approve DAS with a different mix of people.

It also makes it more difficult for someone who is a "tour guide" or offering DAS to their followers since they need to re-apply each time.

Maybe I misunderstood, but that was what I remember reading from earlier today.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I read an article that says the newly updated Terms and Conditions you must agree to when applying for DAS says that regardless of the outcome of the DAS call, you must agree not to create or join a Class Action Lawsuit against Disney.

The specific language is:


I wonder if it is really legally binding for Disney to say you cannot even apply for DAS unless you agree not to create or join a class action lawsuit against them?

Wow, a waiver of all class action rights really puts my earlier post about incorporating a prohibition on sharing on social media (which does NOT appear to have been incorporated!) into perspective.

As a litigator, my *guess* is that the validity of the waiver would be on a state by state basis. Personally, I am in favor of any step Disney can take to protect itself from clearly frivolous lawsuits by disgruntled customers. I’m not saying all potential lawsuits would be frivolous, but most of the ones I’ve seen threatened on social media are pretty baseless— unfortunately, class actions can make even the most frivolous lawsuits painful to defend.

 

[Liquidice]

Wow, a waiver of all class action rights really puts my earlier post about incorporating a prohibition on sharing on social media (which does NOT appear to have been incorporated!) into perspective.

Has anyone actually SEEN these Ts&Cs? As a litigator, my *guess* is that the validity of the waiver would be on a state by state basis…but you may also be consenting to FL law and jurisdiction (or an even less favorable state) elsewhere. Personally, I am in favor of any step Disney can take to protect itself from clearly frivolous lawsuits by disgruntled customers. I’m not saying all potential lawsuits would be frivolous, but most of the ones I’ve seen threatened on social media are pretty baseless— unfortunately, class actions can make even the most frivolous lawsuits painful to defend.

The T&Cs are here: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/p...-services/disability-access-service/register/

You must agree to the T&Cs before applying for DAS via chat.

The lawsuit and no class action lawsuit stuff is actually bolded on the T&Cs page.