DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[SteveMouse]

I don’t think it will be “limiting DAS party sizes” so much as it will be limiting the number of people in a DAS party who are allowed into the LL. For example, a “DAS party” could still be a party of 6 adults, including the DAS holder who has IBS (for example) and the accommodation could be that the DAS holder is allowed to enter the LL with one other member of the DAS party, provided that some of the other members of the party have first done the ride using the standby line. This would accommodate the disability as well as allow the party to take turns with who gets to ride with whom.

One issue that would need to be addressed is in smaller overall parties that include a child under 7, an individual with a condition who cannot wait without a companion. due to medical need. and a person 14 or over providing said assistance. That doesn't work, in terms of having someone wait while the other two ride- neither the individual with the disability or the under 7 child can wait alone.

Here's another problem scenario: After the able-bodied person and the child rode using riider swap with one person, the 5 year old would be left on their own,

Having to wait a cycle for a second part of a party to ride also limits the total number of attractions that can be accomplished, perhaps much more than another party without a disabled individual who also uses rider swap. The non-disabled group might use RS on 3 attractions a day snd a number of rides where they don't. The group that includes the disabled individual may need it for all the attractions attempted during the day. if a RS "second" ride takes just 12 minutes. line entry to exit, in 5 rides. that's an extra hour. With an actual ride time of something like 3 minutes, the 12 minute experience may be a reasonable estimate, especially if s reduction in LL wait times is indeed realized (and Disney doesn't replace the current DAS users with customers paying for LL access). Taking an hour. longer to accomplish the same activity is not an equitable experience.

Another aspect of this approach is that in certain party configurations, such as three person parties where a child who could be left alone, the individual reliant on rider swap for ride access would never get to ride an attraction with the child. That's not exactly family-friendly.

 

[starlite_]

Second - it would have to be like a DAS in some way that would give you pre-approval for RS and indicate this to the CM via MB/MDE. Otherwise, we are stuck explaining issues/conditions to the attractions CM's, in a more public setting, anytime we want to experience an attraction using RS.

It doesn't seem like you would need to explain anything at all. Simply talk to the CM and request a RS.

RS is not a disability only service. You wouldn't need to explain why you are requesting it at all.

 

[piccolopat]

Anything can be a lawsuit and I'm waiting to see when one will be brought after these DAS changes. For instance, someone with my condition who is denied DAS and then while in line their legs collapse, they fall and hit their heads or break a bone, etc. - wide open for lawsuit and this besides those that will state that Disney is offering unequal accommodation. Note, I would not sue because the Disney behemoth can outlast most with their $$$$. Class action though can last a lot longer than an individual.

If you don't use a wheelchair or other device to help you, what do you do in the 20 minute or so LL wait with DAS today if your legs collapse?

 

[tjmw2727]

It doesn't seem like you would need to explain anything at all. Simply talk to the CM and request a RS.

RS is not a disability only service. You wouldn't need to explain why you are requesting it at all.

So, anyone who decides they want to use RS in the future will just have to request it?

I am skeptical on that based on how strict they are now (pre-changes) with regard to having a child who doesn't meet the height requirement.

 

[starlite_]

So, anyone who decides they want to use RS in the future will just have to request it?

I am skeptical on that based on how strict they are now (pre-changes) with regard to having a child who doesn't meet the height requirement.

How are they strict?? Genuinely asking, my party doesn't have any post covid experience with it.

 

[lanejudy]

I don't understand why a moderator on the disabilities board would presume to know what someone with a different disability needs.

I don't presume anything. In fact I stated I don't understand. I'm trying to point out that communicating one's needs in a manner that the CM can understand will be essential under the new system. Sometimes we think we've made ourselves clear, only to learn the intended message did not get through.

It's apparent that Disney plans to limit access to DAS and instead offer some other form of accommodation(s) for many. Regardless of what that other accommodation option(s) are... if someone claims that only DAS will work for them, they will have to find the words to communicate why so the CM can understand. Simply saying "if you have not experienced my situation then you cannot understand" is not likely to get the accommodation that person desires. While I don't know for certain, it is highly possible those who have had a DAS in the past may be prodded more to explain why they need it and that could be asking what they've done while waiting for a DAS Return Time.

Thinking about it now -- a month or more before their visit -- instead of waiting to be denied on the video chat, might help. Some posters have already starting thinking about it, and decided that maybe they can give a different accommodation a try. Obviously that may depend on the alternative accommodation. Others may decide they still feel they really do need DAS, in which case they will have to find a way to explain that.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Depending on the situation it may be using the return to line system.

I am assuming that will be the accommodation for all competent single and 2 person adult parties.

 

[lanejudy]

How are they strict?? Genuinely asking, my party doesn't have any post covid experience with it.

Currently (or until now) rider swap with a too-short child is digital -- it's requested in advance and a return put on the MB/tickets of the 2nd party, those waiting outside the queue with the child. After the first party rides, the waiting adult plus 1 other may enter via the LL. This is only available at attractions with a height requirement.

However, if a child is tall enough to enter the queue, or that attraction doesn't have a height requirement, Rider Swap has taken place at or near boarding with the full party going through the queue and then someone steps aside to wait with the child while the 1st part of their group rides.

 

[zillayen]

As to your comment about it being silly that the non-riding parent goes through the standby and takes the chicken exit you may not be aware but that is what happens as a norm over at Universal. You are free to go through the standbyline (including Express Pass or single rider) even if you have no intention of riding. In fact the TMs will encourage people to do this say for Forbidden Journey. I myself rode Hagrid's once (I wanted to try it and nope it's a one and done for me) and the second time I rode it I went through the line with my husband and then waited off in the rider swap area (which is located right around the loading area for that particular attraction) for my husband to get off the attraction. Most times I will opt to wait outside an attraction for my husband to ride (and that's a lot of rides I'm doing this for including Disney) but I have the option of going with him even as a non-rider. Yes I realize your child has issues with queues but it is not a silly thing to have a non-rider go through the line as a general.

This is my family at any theme park. My husband doesn't like crowds or waiting in line. He may come with us and ride one or two rides and then he goes back to the hotel to chill. That leaves me (solo parent) with two kids who have very different ride appetites. My daughter doesn't like big coasters, my son and I do. She is a very kind soul who waits patiently with us in the standby line for Velocicoaster/Hulk/RRR and then takes the chicken exit. Last trip we did this every day for 4 days so that's a lot of time she was just waiting with us and then never riding. When they were younger, we'd could never ride Silly Swings at DLR because they were too young to ride alone and as the only adult I couldn't leave them by themselves to rider swap, so we never got to ride it.

I'm not trying to say that my situation is the same as someone who needs DAS to access the parks. But there are a lot of different types of travel parties juggling different interests and needs. I don't think that changing DAS accommodations from a blanket "return time" to something that is more in line with what many non-DAS parkgoers are already doing is unreasonable per se. I do firmly believe that if Rider Swap will not work for your party for a specific or unique reason, Disney will probably work with you on it.

 

[tjmw2727]

How are they strict?? Genuinely asking, my party doesn't have any post covid experience with it.

Gotcha -

For RS as it is now you have to bring the entire party to the CM prior to entering the line, they measure the child (if they are borderline) and if the child doesn't meet the height restriction the CM will issue the RS to 2 riders / the party riding second to return and ride via LL. Until this recent change you could not use RS unless the child was too short to ride and can't enter the line.

My hope is that people who are advised to use RS instead of DAS will have this on their profile to eliminate the need to request the RS form the CM and disclose whatever issues qualified them for the RS/DAS accommodation.

 

[Kerr84]

I keep seeing comments that no one should get DAS and everyone should get rider swap to “make it fair”. I’m my opinion, the problem Disney has run into is that they have been issuing DAS as the accommodation for everyone with a disability and ended up with too many using this particular accommodation. They are now trying to have a variety of accommodations to meet different needs. (Also, I think this is mostly to discourage the people lying and saying they have IBS to get 6 friends in the LL.) Not everyone with a developmental disability will get DAS, but some will based on their needs. I don’t want to go into why they might need it, but some truly do. It is disheartening to hear people say no one should get it if they don’t. I would hope we would be a little more compassionate and understanding of what others might need.

 

[PrincessV]

I agree - I just looked at my list - it is relatively long because over the years I’ve traveled with different groups of family members, I’ve always been in charge of planning and I just never thought to clean it up.

But of the 20+ people listed only 5 have ever accompanied me on an attraction using DAS (not on the same trip) and even that has been very rare - usually it is just 1 person. I assume Disney would be able to easily verify this based on dates of entry into the parks and/or our Magic band usage at the attractions.

Yes, the bolded is what I was getting at. Let’s use a fictitious Guest who uses DAS for profit by selling their services as a “tour guide”. I’d imagine they not only have 20+ people in their F&F list - though they probably purge that list after each “tour” - but they also have a record with Disney of showing up every week with a fresh group of F&F added to their DAS group. So, say at the low end maybe 40+ different people who they’ve claimed as F&F for DAS purposes over a month. Surely that’s a red flag to Disney, not just your average Guest with 20-something connections in F&F but only a few of them have ever been in a DAS party.

But under the new rules, that “tour guide” Guest can’t do that anymore. Maybe they still get away with the scam, but instead of escorting 10 people per visit they’re only escorting 3. That’s a big reduction already. Odds are, at least some of those abusers will just get out of the business, adding to the reduction of users. That’s why I see the reduced DAS party size as being the change likely to bring the biggest impact in line operations. All the other stuff might help in other ways, but on strictly the topic of reducing the number of bodies using DAS in LLs, I think the party size limit will be the biggest help.

 

[koszmok]

My husband and I were talking about this today. I have fairly severe social anxiety and generalized anxiety. I have a lot of sensory issues as well. I'm 42 years old but had I been born in the last decade, I'm sure I would have been diagnosed as autistic. However, my neurodivergent traits and challenges aren't the same as someone like my son. I know we aren't supposed to say some disabilities are "worse" than others. But just in speaking of myself and my son....his ability to manage day to day life (and vacations) is vastly different than my own.

If we take my son out of the equation and look at the years I went to the parks before he was born...would something like DAS have made my day easier/more enjoyable? Sure. But did I NEED accommodations to be able to go onto attractions? No. I didn't. Because, like you said, I have the cognitive ability to understand the situation of a queue and manage the wait, even if it's not a fun time (because is waiting a queue fun for anyone??)

My son is 10 years old now. I'm not going to go into all the details about why the queue is likely so difficult for him. But it definitely is. He truly needs something like DAS. And there are so many people, of all ages, just like him. I would love if someday he could 'graduate' from needing a service like this. If he can someday understand the waiting. But I do truly think that DAS was created for people like him. People who truly cannot navigate the world in the same way as most people.

I do hope they find other accomodations for people with all types of disabilities. But I really don't believe the DAS system is meant for every single types of disability/issue that exists.

But what if it's not about managing the time to wait?
But your body is not able to wait (for any kind of reason) for an extended time?

How is that different? You want to wait you understand the concept of wait but your body says: hey! I can't do that... I'm shutting down. Albeit not mentally but physically.

I'm just asking....

 

[Nikkimouse44]

How are they strict?? Genuinely asking, my party doesn't have any post covid experience with it.

This might not answer your question but during one of our trips, my step mom was having back issues and star tours and Rise had warnings not to ride. She decided to sit out. My dad was going to sit out with her so she didn’t have to wait alone and we asked a CM if we can do RS so he can wait with her, and then go on the ride and experience star tours with my son, and they said no because she met the heigh requirements of the ride but was choosing not to ride. She told my dad to go on and she just walked around because she wanted my dad to ride with my son.

Maybe the CM was wrong because of the posted warning and her having back problems (she wasn’t a DAS holder), or maybe the CM was correct and RS truly wasn’t appropriate in that situation.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Having to wait a cycle for a second part of a party to ride also limits the total number of attractions that can be accomplished, perhaps much more than another party without a disabled individual who also uses rider swap. The non-disabled group might use RS on 3 attractions a day snd a number of rides where they don't. The group that includes the disabled individual may need it for all the attractions attempted during the day. if a RS "second" ride takes just 12 minutes. line entry to exit, in 5 rides. that's an extra hour. With an actual ride time of something like 3 minutes, the 12 minute experience may be a reasonable estimate, especially if s reduction in LL wait times is indeed realized (and Disney doesn't replace the current DAS users with customers paying for LL access). Taking an hour. longer to accomplish the same activity is not an equitable experience.

Yes, as anyone who has spent years using child swap for children too small for a ride is aware, the process does take a bit of extra time. But the key point is that everyone gets to ride and disabilities are accommodated. Yes, everyone would like a "perfect" solution (a "perfect" solution for child swap would be a team of friendly Disney CMs ready to provide babysitting services at each ride so my wife and I could ride together while our too-short child was supervised) but there is always going to be a balance between a "reasonable" accommodation (which is what the law requires for disabilities) and a "perfect" accommodation. "My family doesn't get to do as many rides as a party of healthy young people zipping around the park" is an argument that would probably go nowhere in court.

 

[ClaraOswald]

But what if it's not about managing the time to wait?
But your body is not able to wait (for any kind of reason) for an extended time?

How is that different? You want to wait you understand the concept of wait but your body says: hey! I can't do that... I'm shutting down. Albeit not mentally but physically.

I'm just asking....

I guess I'd need more info to have an opinion on that since I've never heard or experienced such a thing. Hopefully the new medical staff/CMs will know about such things and have suggestions or solutions.

 

[GoingSince1990]

This might not answer your question but during one of our trips, my step mom was having back issues and star tours and Rise had warnings not to ride. She decided to sit out. My dad was going to sit out with her so she didn’t have to wait alone and we asked a CM if we can do RS so he can wait with her, and then go on the ride and experience star tours with my son, and they said no because she met the heigh requirements of the ride but was choosing not to ride. She told my dad to go on and she just walked around because she wanted my dad to ride with my son.

Maybe the CM was wrong because of the posted warning and her having back problems (she wasn’t a DAS holder), or maybe the CM was correct and RS truly wasn’t appropriate in that situation.

No, the CM was correct and that is the current policy. I am certain that disability rider swap will need to be pre-approved as part of the DAS interview, and it will be not like random groups approaching the CM at the ride saying "my friend has IBS, we need a rider swap".

 

[Nikkimouse44]

No, the CM was correct and that is the current policy. I am certain that disability rider swap will need to be pre-approved as part of the DAS interview, and it will be not like random groups approaching the CM at the ride saying "my friend has IBS, we need a rider swap".

Thanks! Yeah we didn’t really have experience with the policy so we just said okay thanks and walked away (we love CM, truly unsung hero’s) but looking back I wondered if with the posted “heart condition” or whatever else may not ride would qualify for a RS. I’ve heard in the past CM allow RS when people meet height requirements but are too scared for the ride (mainly children - think haunted mansion or tron or Everest) which I think is in that gray area.

 

[piccolopat]

Outside of the line, people like my dad are free to do *whatever* brings a bit of relief. Lean against a wall. Sit with their feet propped on something. Sit on the ground. Get into weirdly contorted positions that take pressure off the worst area. It's impossible to do most of that in a queue, no matter how much your family is circling around to try to give you space.

No, a cane with a seat and a rollator are not realistic options. A rollator puts Dad's back into a position that has him screaming within a couple of moments, and the seat is horrible for him. A cane seat is actually something that he uses occasionally outside of the theme parks, like at the community fireworks or whatever. But have you ever sat on one of those things? You need room! They're very unstable and take a minute for someone with those particular issues to fold out and sit down, and then stand up and refold. Getting bumped could easily knock him over, and the whole bending over to fold and unfold thing constantly hurts.


That's awesome, and I wish you the best of luck! Unfortunately, some people have already been down that road and KNOW it's not enough for them. My Dad was an AP since long before he became disabled. He used to be the guy who do the parks full speed, inhaling a turkey leg on the go, from open to close multiple days in a row without breaking a sweat. It took him a LONG time to accept that he was disabled, and many years after that of trying everything he could think of before finally admitting he needed a GAC. And it was an absolute game changer. The switch to DAS was incredibly hard on him. He's managed as best he could, but the experience is definitely nowhere near equal to what an average non-disabled guest experiences. He's already spending a lot more time at Universal these days, where he has a higher level accommodation that works far better for him. If he can't get DAS, he can't do Disney any more at all. And we know this, because we've tried every which way over the past couple of decades.




This. I don't understand why a moderator on the disabilities board would presume to know what someone with a different disability needs. This condition is extremely hard for people to wrap their brains around, I get it. But when my dad went to see a new spine specialist a couple weeks ago, someone who's literally dealt with messed up spines for years, that guy looked at the MRI and said, "Whoa! Your spine is the most complex I've ever seen!" It's not normal back pain at all.

I guess it's hard sometimes to understand another person's issues. For me, my back is an issue at times. It'll hurt walking too much but especially on rollercoasters or rides that jerk me around. Too many rides at Universal are those kinds of thrill rides. I find more to do at Disney.

 

[starlite_]

Currently (or until now) rider swap with a too-short child is digital -- it's requested in advance and a return put on the MB/tickets of the 2nd party, those waiting outside the queue with the child. After the first party rides, the waiting adult plus 1 other may enter via the LL. This is only available at attractions with a height requirement.

However, if a child is tall enough to enter the queue, or that attraction doesn't have a height requirement, Rider Swap has taken place at or near boarding with the full party going through the queue and then someone steps aside to wait with the child while the 1st part of their group rides.

Gotcha -

For RS as it is now you have to bring the entire party to the CM prior to entering the line, they measure the child (if they are borderline) and if the child doesn't meet the height restriction the CM will issue the RS to 2 riders / the party riding second to return and ride via LL. Until this recent change you could not use RS unless the child was too short to ride and can't enter the line.

My hope is that people who are advised to use RS instead of DAS will have this on their profile to eliminate the need to request the RS form the CM and disclose whatever issues qualified them for the RS/DAS accommodation.

This might not answer your question but during one of our trips, my step mom was having back issues and star tours and Rise had warnings not to ride. She decided to sit out. My dad was going to sit out with her so she didn’t have to wait alone and we asked a CM if we can do RS so he can wait with her, and then go on the ride and experience star tours with my son, and they said no because she met the heigh requirements of the ride but was choosing not to ride. She told my dad to go on and she just walked around because she wanted my dad to ride with my son.

Maybe the CM was wrong because of the posted warning and her having back problems (she wasn’t a DAS holder), or maybe the CM was correct and RS truly wasn’t appropriate in that situation.

Ah! Ok I see the issue. It seems to me that the simplest solution would be to simply give RS to whoever asks for it instead of having the need marked in your profile or keep measuring short kids. After all, only the parties that actually need it would be willing to compromise and split their group, and that might be enough of a deterrent for abuser to use the service to join the LL for "free" since they wouldn't be saving any time overall.