DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Disneychick75]

So you walk with a rollator for a bit, sit a bit, obviously change positions. In my experience neither the standby queue nor the LL are standing still for 20 minutes. Queues move slowly, maybe stop but move again. The rollator allows you to sit and change position. You admit you can sit (while fidgiting) for up to 10 minutes, but the don't generally stand still that long before it moves again. It sounds like you can do standby queues but simply prefer the convenience of DAS.

nvm

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I'm a little behind, but I've seen several posts about how families split up all the time. Yes, no disagreement there. However, unless I missed something, every example discussed was a choice. A conscious decision made. Not something directed by someone outside the family.

I mean to an extent, yes it is a family with a too short child's choice to split up to use RS. But it is the only accommodation offered by Disney to allow those other family members the opportunity to ride. If you want to ride and you have a too short child, you have to split up. Disney could allow everyone to wait in line together and then swap at the boarding area (not necessarily saying I would have wanted that), but Disney directed that they have to split up, or they cannot access the ride. Splitting up/waiting separately is the only way to access the ride.

Similarly, anyone utilizing RS with these new changes have kind of the same choice. If that is the only accommodation Disney offers to those with certain disability challenges, then those individuals have the choice to split up in order to ride or forego the ride and stay together.

In both situations, it is a choice to split up, but the only way the parent or the individual with a disability can ride.

Going to the park is optional. That's not a good argument. If Disney is going to separate the disabled from their families because it's a choice to go on that attraction, then the choice should be made to keep your money and not give them your business. It's wrong and I believe illegal to separate just because a person is disabled

Except there's nothing that says businesses have to provide the same accommodation to able-bodied family members, hence the limits with number of people for DAS, wheelchair viewing areas, etc.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I mean to an extent, yes it is a family with a too short child's choice to split up to use RS. But it is the only accommodation offered by Disney to allow those other family members the opportunity to ride. If you want to ride and you have a too short child, you have to split up. Disney could allow everyone to wait in line together and then swap at the boarding area (not necessarily saying I would have wanted that), but Disney directed that they have to split up, or they cannot access the ride. Splitting up/waiting separately is the only way to access the ride.

It's the only way to access the rides the child is too short for. There's more attractions without height requirements than there are with, and for all of those attractions families aren't split.

The difference for families who would be using this as a disability accommodation, is this would be the accommodation for *all* attractions. (As let's be honest there are few rides that average a less than 20 min wait. Even 30 can be hard to come by depending on the time of year. Disneyland is better in this regard given that they have a higher capacity in each park.)

 

[MinnieMSue]

Do you have the DAS for your trip? So if you need it you can use it? Would hate for your issue to act up and then you would not be able to enjoy your trip.
Lower crowds are definitely a help whether or not someone needs DAS.

Yes I do. I actually got it before a late March trip and it was given for 60 days. Wasn’t sure if it would work for my May trip with the changes happening but I went in and tried to do some pre trip ride bookings today and in the chat they said my das was good until May 21. So I booked some rides. But all day I really thought hard about this and decided I want to see what happens. I have the safety net plus it is a fly in Monday morning and fly out Thursday night one park a day trip so not long. I prob will lose it at some point but I want to experiment a bit and test the waters. It has been a long time since I took a no das trip. I need to see what is going to work for me sometimes and what isn’t. It is a perfect time to test myself and see how it goes. I know I have the safety net.

 

[AdnTigger710]

Wow. I've tried to read this entire thread to see if people reported updates on any further info/clarifications they received but it was like reading War & Peace, and then I wake up to 20 more pages and I just will never catch up, lol. I apologize if I'm addressing anything here that showed up after like page 40.

I'm not a lawyer like Hyper, I only have experience in employment law. Hopefully a disability rights lawyer can chime in. These are just my non-professional(?) thoughts.

I want to be clear up front: I write all this knowing we are operating on vague/incomplete information and need to see how this rolls out (recognizing some don't have that luxury. I myself...my trip is quite literally during the switch. I'm apparently on the "old" policies for the whole trip, arriving May before the switch).

I also read both recent rulings on disability access at Disney and Hyper has it down here:

I am not a disability lawyer but I am a litigator and I think this A.L. ruling (along with the cited 9th circuit case that Disneyland won) shows the writing on the wall— both rulings are clear that Disney is not obligated to provide an accommodation that “fundamentally alters the theme park experience” for the majority of park guests. Disney now has the evidence (usage data) to establish that DAS is currently fundamentally altering the experience for all guests (and several people on this thread have given examples of how the current system has made it impossible for them to enjoy attractions even with the DAS accommodations) because of how many DAS users (and our guests) are relying on the very generous system. I’m expecting that many conditions/accommodations will be stripped out of the DAS system based on how prevalent (or fakeable) they are in American society (e.g. how it would cripple the entire park queue process if every American with ADHD or generalized anxiety disorder could bring 4 people through DAS), and I say that based on this ruling:
View attachment 850406
I truly hope Disney does make it possible for all of us who find medium to long queues unbearable to continue to be able to enjoy popular attractions, and, even though it might exclude me and my family, I especially hope the families with children with severe health conditions (of all kinds) get prioritized, even if it means everybody else fares a little worse.

Disney's argument here in Galvan was that 30% of the population is affected by anxiety. If park population on any given day represents general population, they would have to provide 30% of guests DAS (on top of all other conditions), and that would fundamentally alter their operations. Plaintiff's lawyer did not dispute this, and therefore his case failed on said grounds.

I think what people need to take from this here is that this ruling is essentially saying that if too many people have a condition, Disney doesn't have to accommodate it with DAS any longer. They only need to accommodate in a reasonable way that doesn't fundamentally alter their park operations. That is an exception written into the ADA. They can then extrapolate on that, I imagine, to include anyone who actually needs an accommodation by saying "x amount of people have conditions that would currently fall under our DAS eligibility. That would equal x amount of DAS users in our parks per day, which would fundamentally alter our operations". I have a feeling this is the crux of why they literally named Autism in the release -- it's the disability one of the major cases was based upon.

I do think this assertion can (and will) be challenged. A few things to note here:

- Plaintiff's lawyer in Galvan never challenged the original assertion that it was fundamentally altering, nor offered their own experts.

- Plaintiff's lawyer in A.L. V Disney never challenged the industrial engineering team's "study" on DAS impact, nor offered their own experts. This is akin to having a pharmaceutical company sponsor its own studies on its medications. Is that a study you trust is factual and unbiased? Of course not. And this "study" fails here for the same reasons. What the industrial engineers came up with, as others have pointed out, was akin to people who do NOT NEED DAS using the DAS system. I would say this is "sampling bias" (drawing conclusions from a set of data that isn’t representative of the population you’re trying to understand.) Of course that would have been the conclusion - the way it's designed and can be used would allow for this, no study needed. The only study that would be actually representative of users with disabilities is one where the users...have disabilities. Because there's clear abuse of the system, even their data now with guest use is bias/inaccurate. They also did the study over only 3 days. if this was a scientific study it wouldn't pass peer review. This can absolutely be challenged with a more scientific and unbiased study with the proper pool of participants.

- They argued that giving x amount of people DAS would fundamentally alter their operations and have an "adverse effect on park operations". Note, this ruling was made on 11.27.19. They then introduced Genie+ on 10.19.21. As many have pointed out, DAS and Genie+ do not offer the exact same experience, but they don't have to for this point. As some like to keep pointing out "just use Genie+!" I think that is the point here. It certainly doesn't work for many, but it does work for some. And Disney is trying to push abusers to use it (which is fine, of course, as they should), but also those who would/should be accommodated under ADA via "reasonable and necessary" accommodations. They argued it would fundamentally and negatively alter operations to accommodate x amount of people with DAS, then they fairly quickly fundamentally altered their operations in a like or similar way, "adversely affecting park operations" -- yet charged for it. We of course don't have the numbers on how many Genie+ & LL's are sold in a day, but that can be obtained during discovery. We ARE privy to wait time data and can see increases in standby (this could be attributed to "revenge travel", but it'd have to be compared against park attendance each day.) They are now cutting back on DAS use and will likely say that is what is affecting wait times & operations, but I think, with Genie+, that will be a hard sell this time around. Further, in the ruling in A.L. V Disney, the judge states: "More importantly, the DAS card is set up so A.L. would never have to physically wait in line more than 20 minutes." This was clearly an important aspect of DAS in their decision that it's a reasonable and proper accommodation, which is no longer the case. Long story short -- I feel there's a case to be made that Disney is attempting to charge for "reasonable and necessary" accommodations. At the very least, the introduction of Genie+ has made DAS a program that is no longer meeting the threshold of providing "an accommodation that provides autistic individuals with a "like experience" to the one nondisabled guests experience" (or other disabled individuals, for that matter). Hopefully a good lawyer who knows what they're doing and maybe a financially stable plaintiff will take it up, because litigation against Disney is neither cheap nor easy.

Can they win in court? Sure. But would they want to possibly exclude so many people from the parks? I doubt it. Their own argument is that there are a ton of people with disabilities. That would hurt their bottom line. They're trying to thread the needle...not sure how well they're pulling that off.

Great ...so what can we do?

Well, I don't have to tell any of you that money talks, and let's be honest, that's what they care about these days. Capitalism and shareholders are priorities 1, 2, & 3. But they can only make so many changes that upset guests without affecting their bottom line. In fact, in A.L. V Disney the ruling points out that Disney does extensive research on guest satisfaction, what affects that, and in turn, affects guests' "intent to return." Quote:

the engineers found guests were very satisfied while waiting ten minutes, but satisfaction dropped off significantly at 15 minutes, and precipitously at 20 minutes; thus, guest impressions of the wait times and the level of satisfaction led to a standard goal of 15 minutes of wait time. Anything beyond that window fundamentally undermines Disney's whole business plan and cuts into its "delivery of world-class guest service for the whole purpose of having the highest possible level of guest satisfaction. [Disney] know there's a direct driver between guest satisfaction, intent to return, and future visitation." Disney has determined that when the guests’ intention to return to the park decreases, future attendance decreases and therefore future revenue decreases "sharply" because, in addition to losing revenue from lost attendance, Disney loses revenue from hotel stays, food purchases, associated merchandise, and "everything else." (emphasis added)

And I have to say, intent to return is a big deal. When you stop thinking about the "now", how we can increase shareholder profits NOW, you see how important intent to return is past the next trip. Disney is a 100-year-old company that needs to start looking past the tip of its nose -- past the shareholders. Anecdotally, I know multiple families that have become priced out, or they're displeased with the changes making it too stressful (always need to be on the phone, 7AM drops, have to plan out whole day, etc), less entertaining (less or closed attractions/shows/activities), less comfort/amenities & value for their dollar (FastPass to Genie+, higher ticket prices combined with possible need to buy Genie+ and/or ILL's, bye-bye Magical Express, resort deliveries, airlines check-in, room service, etc). Now they may be adding families with unaccommodated disabilities to this list. All of these issues, in turn, made these families seek out other vacations they never would have even looked at otherwise. They are now spending their money at these other destinations - Disney is losing their money. They're renting entire homes on the lake for a week. They're taking non-Disney cruises. They're going to Europe. Etc, etc. Further to that, these are generational "Disney" families. What I mean by that is, families who have gone to Disney through the generations. The family tradition has fundamentally changed away from Disney. So, they're not just losing money on the next trip. Because of these changes, because of guest dissatisfaction and families not returning today, they're losing money for generations to come.

So, since they know intent to return is important to their bottom line, show them your dissatisfaction and your lower level of intent to return. How do we do that? Well, many of you already have been. You've been writing to them to voice your concerns, advise you won't want/be able to return, etc. I imagine they will think of these as "toothless threats". Unfortunately for them, with this particular issue, they may be taking away necessary accommodations for many. You actually CAN'T go to and enjoy the parks without them. You literally CAN'T give them your money. If you really want to go, demand answers to your real and valid concerns before you hand over money to them and "hope and pray" they'll accommodate you a measly THIRTY days prior to your visit. This is NOT a reasonable timeline to try and plan a vacation with a person that needs accommodation. If they won't answer your concerns and guarantee you will be properly accommodated in a MUCH more reasonable timeline (personally, I think that could be up to a year, considering how early many book), then advise you are forced to spend your money elsewhere. And do so.

Some have said they want/need to cancel. If you do so, let them know why. Be loud and clear about it. If you cancel without giving them the reason, they can't attribute it to this change. I imagine a company like Business Insider might like to hear from some of us who feel forced to cancel our vacations due to the changes. Personally, I think it'll have more teeth once we know how it's actually rolled out, as we are operating on speculation and minimal info due to their poor/vague release.

I guess the bottom line is: money is all they care about. The only way they'll listen is if we loudly withhold it from them.

Speculation/Thoughts:

If I'm reading it correctly, we will start getting some anecdotal answers soon -- as early as May 19th. I implore everyone that has a trip coming up that makes the 30 day call to share your experience with the DAS call rep here. We need to remember: everyone's case is different. I think they'll take this into account. E.G., need for bathroom access may be moved to other accommodations, but bathroom access while on a scooter (due to limited mobility leaving/re-entering lines and moving quickly) may still be DAS. Who knows

I think we could be focusing on conditions a bit much but not how the actual experience on the phone would go, in regards to those with non-physical disabilities. What I mean by this is: the way I or my daughter (ASD) would describe why we have difficulties in a long or crowded queue may, to me, sound akin to someone who has PTSD, anxiety, etc. Don't talk about what you have, talk about how it affects you.

Lastly, I have this weird, nagging feeling that even though they mention Autism and the like, they will try to accommodate autistic and similar adults differently than children. I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of unconscious bias going on when an autistic/PTSD/anxiety adult that can make the call themselves will be brushed aside as not needing the accommodations or needing different/insufficient accommodations. Personally, just having the issues I have makes it very difficult for me to do, but I can get thru it...badly, probably. Especially considering the high likelihood of continued abuse they (and we) foresee with people lying about having these disabilities. I feel like a lot of invisible disabilities will be disregarded here. I really hope I'm wrong.

Thanks for reading, everyone. Hopefully you found this informative or helpful in some way. Hoping it took you less time to read than it did for me to read the first 40 pages of this thread. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[Grim Grinning Ghostie]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I came across this in one of my DAS groups on Facebook today - seems someone got an actual callback. May help ease a few minds:

 

[Disneychick75]

Yes I do. I actually got it before a late March trip and it was given for 60 days. Wasn’t sure if it would work for my May trip with the changes happening but I went in and tried to do some pre trip ride bookings today and in the chat they said my das was good until May 21. So I booked some rides. But all day I really thought hard about this and decided I want to see what happens. I have the safety net plus it is a fly in Monday morning and fly out Thursday night one park a day trip so not long. I prob will lose it at some point but I want to experiment a bit and test the waters. It has been a long time since I took a no das trip. I need to see what is going to work for me sometimes and what isn’t. It is a perfect time to test myself and see how it goes. I know I have the safety net.

Hope it works for you! Please come back and let us know your experience.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I'm wondering about this as well. I'm still not exactly sure how the DAS/LL queue would be any different than standby, in that respect. Sure...it's longer. But you still end up standing in the DAS line. At least that's been my experience.

I have rheumatoid arthritis, which thankfully isn't severe at this point. But if/when it gets bad, my plan is to get a rollator to go through lines. That way I can alternate between sitting and walking. For me, I do get stiff/sore if I sit for too long. I also hurt if I have to stand in the same place. But I think walking when the queue moves, and sitting when it stops, would probably do the trick for me since I'd never been sitting for that long but it would still be better than standing in one spot. (And obviously if walking ever became a bigger issue, I'd get a scooter/wheelchair.)

But I'm curious what the people do when not in line or on rides. Do they just walk non-stop? Only sit for a few minutes? Is the bigger issue the standing? Is a cane with a seat or a rollator not a realistic option?

When I'd wait, if I could find a short line, under 30 minutes, I go on that attraction. Sometimes I will sit for a few minutes, then browse in a shop. Sometimes I grab a snack. I most always end up using the restroom

 

[JLTraveling]

I'm wondering about this as well. I'm still not exactly sure how the DAS/LL queue would be any different than standby, in that respect. Sure...it's longer. But you still end up standing in the DAS line. At least that's been my experience.

I have rheumatoid arthritis, which thankfully isn't severe at this point. But if/when it gets bad, my plan is to get a rollator to go through lines. That way I can alternate between sitting and walking. For me, I do get stiff/sore if I sit for too long. I also hurt if I have to stand in the same place. But I think walking when the queue moves, and sitting when it stops, would probably do the trick for me since I'd never been sitting for that long but it would still be better than standing in one spot. (And obviously if walking ever became a bigger issue, I'd get a scooter/wheelchair.)

But I'm curious what the people do when not in line or on rides. Do they just walk non-stop? Only sit for a few minutes? Is the bigger issue the standing? Is a cane with a seat or a rollator not a realistic option?

Outside of the line, people like my dad are free to do *whatever* brings a bit of relief. Lean against a wall. Sit with their feet propped on something. Sit on the ground. Get into weirdly contorted positions that take pressure off the worst area. It's impossible to do most of that in a queue, no matter how much your family is circling around to try to give you space.

No, a cane with a seat and a rollator are not realistic options. A rollator puts Dad's back into a position that has him screaming within a couple of moments, and the seat is horrible for him. A cane seat is actually something that he uses occasionally outside of the theme parks, like at the community fireworks or whatever. But have you ever sat on one of those things? You need room! They're very unstable and take a minute for someone with those particular issues to fold out and sit down, and then stand up and refold. Getting bumped could easily knock him over, and the whole bending over to fold and unfold thing constantly hurts.

So I have been thinking a lot over the last few days. DO I really need the das? I definitely have issues that can be severe. But do I have them every line on every ride? Am I an unintentional das abuser? I certainly did not lie when I talked to the people on the phone interviews and at guest services when I did it before the phone call was a thing. But is it possible for me to have a decent day without it? Yes it will be much more stressful and a different day than with the das. But maybe I need to experiment some on our may 13 trip. Maybe I need to push myself and try to go in the shorter lines or more outside line rides. Maybe I need to try to space myself out more from other people if I can. Take more breaks away from the crowds. Hit Tom Sawyer island and hang out on a rocking chair. Spend a few breaks in the new Epcot seating areas. Try to use the das less to see what works and what doesn’t while I have the chance and the crutch of having it. I am all about helping yourself but also using your resources. But I think I am going to make a change and see what happens. Maybe it will fail. Maybe it will work. But it will be data I can tell the next video call cast member if I need to try for assistance for our December trip. I think i am going to use this upcoming trip as an experiment. What works. What doesn’t. What can I tolerate and won’t can’t I. Has anything changed from the days before I needed das. Maybe I will get the genie plus thing and see if I can hit the return times. It is a lower crowd time if that’s a thing. December will be busier. Next March our last trip for awhile will be busier yet. But I am going to see what happens. I will be in Disney and that’s better than being home.

That's awesome, and I wish you the best of luck! Unfortunately, some people have already been down that road and KNOW it's not enough for them. My Dad was an AP since long before he became disabled. He used to be the guy who do the parks full speed, inhaling a turkey leg on the go, from open to close multiple days in a row without breaking a sweat. It took him a LONG time to accept that he was disabled, and many years after that of trying everything he could think of before finally admitting he needed a GAC. And it was an absolute game changer. The switch to DAS was incredibly hard on him. He's managed as best he could, but the experience is definitely nowhere near equal to what an average non-disabled guest experiences. He's already spending a lot more time at Universal these days, where he has a higher level accommodation that works far better for him. If he can't get DAS, he can't do Disney any more at all. And we know this, because we've tried every which way over the past couple of decades.

So you walk with a rollator for a bit, sit a bit, obviously change positions. In my experience neither the standby queue nor the LL are standing still for 20 minutes. Queues move slowly, maybe stop but move again. The rollator allows you to sit and change position. You admit you can sit (while fidgiting) for up to 10 minutes, but the don't generally stand still that long before it moves again. It sounds like you can do standby queues but simply prefer the convenience of DAS.

I'm not trying to be rude but if you have not experienced my pain, then you cannot understand. I'm not acting like I understand what others suffer with their ailments, syndromes, etc. because I am not in their situation. I would appreciate the same consideration.

This. I don't understand why a moderator on the disabilities board would presume to know what someone with a different disability needs. This condition is extremely hard for people to wrap their brains around, I get it. But when my dad went to see a new spine specialist a couple weeks ago, someone who's literally dealt with messed up spines for years, that guy looked at the MRI and said, "Whoa! Your spine is the most complex I've ever seen!" It's not normal back pain at all.

 

[Jrb1979]

Wow. I've tried to read this entire thread to see if people reported updates on any further info/clarifications they received but it was like reading War & Peace, and then I wake up to 20 more pages and I just will never catch up, lol. I apologize if I'm addressing anything here that showed up after like page 40.

I'm not a lawyer like Hyper, I only have experience in employment law. Hopefully a disability rights lawyer can chime in. These are just my non-professional(?) thoughts.

I want to be clear up front: I write all this knowing we are operating on vague/incomplete information and need to see how this rolls out (recognizing some don't have that luxury. I myself...my trip is quite literally during the switch. I'm apparently on the "old" policies for the whole trip, arriving May before the switch).

I also read both recent rulings on disability access at Disney and Hyper has it down here:


Disney's argument here in Galvan was that 30% of the population is affected by anxiety. If park population on any given day represents general population, they would have to provide 30% of guests DAS (on top of all other conditions), and that would fundamentally alter their operations. Plaintiff's lawyer did not dispute this, and therefore his case failed on said grounds.

I think what people need to take from this here is that this ruling is essentially saying that if too many people have a condition, Disney doesn't have to accommodate it with DAS any longer. They only need to accommodate in a reasonable way that doesn't fundamentally alter their park operations. That is an exception written into the ADA. They can then extrapolate on that, I imagine, to include anyone who actually needs an accommodation by saying "x amount of people have conditions that would currently fall under our DAS eligibility. That would equal x amount of DAS users in our parks per day, which would fundamentally alter our operations". I have a feeling this is the crux of why they literally named Autism in the release -- it's the disability one of the major cases was based upon.

I do think this assertion can (and will) be challenged. A few things to note here:

- Plaintiff's lawyer in Galvan never challenged the original assertion that it was fundamentally altering, nor offered their own experts.

- Plaintiff's lawyer in A.L. V Disney never challenged the industrial engineering team's "study" on DAS impact, nor offered their own experts. This is akin to having a pharmaceutical company sponsor its own studies on its medications. Is that a study you trust is factual and unbiased? Of course not. And this "study" fails here for the same reasons. What the industrial engineers came up with, as others have pointed out, was akin to people who do NOT NEED DAS using the DAS system. I would say this is "sampling bias" (drawing conclusions from a set of data that isn’t representative of the population you’re trying to understand.) Of course that would have been the conclusion - the way it's designed and can be used would allow for this, no study needed. The only study that would be actually representative of users with disabilities is one where the users...have disabilities. Because there's clear abuse of the system, even their data now with guest use is bias/inaccurate. They also did the study over only 3 days. if this was a scientific study it wouldn't pass peer review. This can absolutely be challenged with a more scientific and unbiased study with the proper pool of participants.

- They argued that giving x amount of people DAS would fundamentally alter their operations and have an "adverse effect on park operations". Note, this ruling was made on 11.27.19. They then introduced Genie+ on 10.19.21. As many have pointed out, DAS and Genie+ do not offer the exact same experience, but they don't have to for this point. As some like to keep pointing out "just use Genie+!" I think that is the point here. It certainly doesn't work for many, but it does work for some. And Disney is trying to push abusers to use it (which is fine, of course, as they should), but also those who would/should be accommodated under ADA via "reasonable and necessary" accommodations. They argued it would fundamentally and negatively alter operations to accommodate x amount of people with DAS, then they fairly quickly fundamentally altered their operations in a like or similar way, "adversely affecting park operations" -- yet charged for it. We of course don't have the numbers on how many Genie+ & LL's are sold in a day, but that can be obtained during discovery. We ARE privy to wait time data and can see increases in standby (this could be attributed to "revenge travel", but it'd have to be compared against park attendance each day.) They are now cutting back on DAS use and will likely say that is what is affecting wait times & operations, but I think, with Genie+, that will be a hard sell this time around. Further, in the ruling in A.L. V Disney, the judge states: "More importantly, the DAS card is set up so A.L. would never have to physically wait in line more than 20 minutes." This was clearly an important aspect of DAS in their decision that it's a reasonable and proper accommodation, which is no longer the case. Long story short -- I feel there's a case to be made that Disney is attempting to charge for "reasonable and necessary" accommodations. At the very least, the introduction of Genie+ has made DAS a program that is no longer meeting the threshold of providing "an accommodation that provides autistic individuals with a "like experience" to the one nondisabled guests experience" (or other disabled individuals, for that matter). Hopefully a good lawyer who knows what they're doing and maybe a financially stable plaintiff will take it up, because litigation against Disney is neither cheap nor easy.

Can they win in court? Sure. But would they want to possibly exclude so many people from the parks? I doubt it. Their own argument is that there are a ton of people with disabilities. That would hurt their bottom line. They're trying to thread the needle...not sure how well they're pulling that off.

Great ...so what can we do?

Well, I don't have to tell any of you that money talks, and let's be honest, that's what they care about these days. Capitalism and shareholders are priorities 1, 2, & 3. But they can only make so many changes that upset guests without affecting their bottom line. In fact, in A.L. V Disney the ruling points out that Disney does extensive research on guest satisfaction, what affects that, and in turn, affects guests' "intent to return." Quote:




And I have to say, intent to return is a big deal. When you stop thinking about the "now", how we can increase shareholder profits NOW, you see how important intent to return is past the next trip. Disney is a 100-year-old company that needs to start looking past the tip of its nose -- past the shareholders. Anecdotally, I know multiple families that have become priced out, or they're displeased with the changes making it too stressful (always need to be on the phone, 7AM drops, have to plan out whole day, etc), less entertaining (less or closed attractions/shows/activities), less comfort/amenities & value for their dollar (FastPass to Genie+, higher ticket prices combined with possible need to buy Genie+ and/or ILL's, bye-bye Magical Express, resort deliveries, airlines check-in, room service, etc). Now they may be adding families with unaccommodated disabilities to this list. All of these issues, in turn, made these families seek out other vacations they never would have even looked at otherwise. They are now spending their money at these other destinations - Disney is losing their money. They're renting entire homes on the lake for a week. They're taking non-Disney cruises. They're going to Europe. Etc, etc. Further to that, these are generational "Disney" families. What I mean by that is, families who have gone to Disney through the generations. The family tradition has fundamentally changed away from Disney. So, they're not just losing money on the next trip. Because of these changes, because of guest dissatisfaction and families not returning today, they're losing money for generations to come.

So, since they know intent to return is important to their bottom line, show them your dissatisfaction and your lower level of intent to return. How do we do that? Well, many of you already have been. You've been writing to them to voice your concerns, advise you won't want/be able to return, etc. I imagine they will think of these as "toothless threats". Unfortunately for them, with this particular issue, they may be taking away necessary accommodations for many. You actually CAN'T go to and enjoy the parks without them. You literally CAN'T give them your money. If you really want to go, demand answers to your real and valid concerns before you hand over money to them and "hope and pray" they'll accommodate you a measly THIRTY days prior to your visit. This is NOT a reasonable timeline to try and plan a vacation with a person that needs accommodation. If they won't answer your concerns and guarantee you will be properly accommodated in a MUCH more reasonable timeline (personally, I think that could be up to a year, considering how early many book), then advise you are forced to spend your money elsewhere. And do so.

Some have said they want/need to cancel. If you do so, let them know why. Be loud and clear about it. If you cancel without giving them the reason, they can't attribute it to this change. I imagine a company like Business Insider might like to hear from some of us who feel forced to cancel our vacations due to the changes. Personally, I think it'll have more teeth once we know how it's actually rolled out, as we are operating on speculation and minimal info due to their poor/vague release.

I guess the bottom line is: money is all they care about. The only way they'll listen is if we loudly withhold it from them.

Speculation/Thoughts:

If I'm reading it correctly, we will start getting some anecdotal answers soon -- as early as May 19th. I implore everyone that has a trip coming up that makes the 30 day call to share your experience with the DAS call rep here. We need to remember: everyone's case is different. I think they'll take this into account. E.G., need for bathroom access may be moved to other accommodations, but bathroom access while on a scooter (due to limited mobility leaving/re-entering lines and moving quickly) may still be DAS. Who knows

I think we could be focusing on conditions a bit much but not how the actual experience on the phone would go, in regards to those with non-physical disabilities. What I mean by this is: the way I or my daughter (ASD) would describe why we have difficulties in a long or crowded queue may, to me, sound akin to someone who has PTSD, anxiety, etc. Don't talk about what you have, talk about how it affects you.

Lastly, I have this weird, nagging feeling that even though they mention Autism and the like, they will try to accommodate autistic and similar adults differently than children. I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of unconscious bias going on when an autistic/PTSD/anxiety adult that can make the call themselves will be brushed aside as not needing the accommodations or needing different/insufficient accommodations. Personally, just having the issues I have makes it very difficult for me to do, but I can get thru it...badly, probably. Especially considering the high likelihood of continued abuse they (and we) foresee with people lying about having these disabilities. I feel like a lot of invisible disabilities will be disregarded here. I really hope I'm wrong.

Thanks for reading, everyone. Hopefully you found this informative or helpful in some way. Hoping it took you less time to read than it did for me to read the first 40 pages of this thread. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I get what you are saying. I will play devils advocate in that a lot of the things Disney does for those with disabilities goes above and beyond what the majority of other parks do.

Go to most other parks and those with disabilities get a piece of paper that the ride attendant writes a return time. To use the pass
you have to go through the exit of the attraction.

 

[greeneyedchick]

DAS discussions always bring out the worst kind of ableism in people.



Speaking as one of those Xennials who was not diagnosed in childhood, pretty much entirely due to cultural biases...in hindsight I exhibited a million red flags as a child, but was simply called "lazy" and accused of not applying myself once I could no longer compensate for my issues with being "gifted". Even today in 2024, people struggle to think of girls and women of color as being neurodivergent. We know from research these things tend to present differently in girls, add cultural biases on top of that, it results in a lot of people not getting diagnosed in childhood and struggling through life. The thing is people "mostly cope" until they can't any more...eventually you hit a wall. Believe me, I know.

As a 42 year old adult the process of getting diagnosed has been expensive, time consuming, confusing, and frankly hellish. My insurance only covers some of it. There is a pervasive belief that these things are "outgrown" as we age and thus a lot of ignorance about ADHD adults, it is very difficult finding resources for us because everything is aimed at children. I only began this process in the first place because my Canadian partner was diagnosed in childhood and asked me if I had ever been because she recognized many, many signs in me.

I just wanted to say that I've been down a similar path and it's disheartening that people don't understand female, adult ADHD. Trying to find doctors that understand and to get medical care without making you feel like a criminal for asking for medication is difficult and upsetting. You're not alone. Hang in there.

 

[Disneychick75]

Outside of the line, people like my dad are free to do *whatever* brings a bit of relief. Lean against a wall. Sit with their feet propped on something. Sit on the ground. Get into weirdly contorted positions that take pressure off the worst area. It's impossible to do most of that in a queue, no matter how much your family is circling around to try to give you space.

No, a cane with a seat and a rollator are not realistic options. A rollator puts Dad's back into a position that has him screaming within a couple of moments, and the seat is horrible for him. A cane seat is actually something that he uses occasionally outside of the theme parks, like at the community fireworks or whatever. But have you ever sat on one of those things? You need room! They're very unstable and take a minute for someone with those particular issues to fold out and sit down, and then stand up and refold. Getting bumped could easily knock him over, and the whole bending over to fold and unfold thing constantly hurts.


That's awesome, and I wish you the best of luck! Unfortunately, some people have already been down that road and KNOW it's not enough for them. My Dad was an AP since long before he became disabled. He used to be the guy who do the parks full speed, inhaling a turkey leg on the go, from open to close multiple days in a row without breaking a sweat. It took him a LONG time to accept that he was disabled, and many years after that of trying everything he could think of before finally admitting he needed a GAC. And it was an absolute game changer. The switch to DAS was incredibly hard on him. He's managed as best he could, but the experience is definitely nowhere near equal to what an average non-disabled guest experiences. He's already spending a lot more time at Universal these days, where he has a higher level accommodation that works far better for him. If he can't get DAS, he can't do Disney any more at all. And we know this, because we've tried every which way over the past couple of decades.




This. I don't understand why a moderator on the disabilities board would presume to know what someone with a different disability needs. This condition is extremely hard for people to wrap their brains around, I get it. But when my dad went to see a new spine specialist a couple weeks ago, someone who's literally dealt with messed up spines for years, that guy looked at the MRI and said, "Whoa! Your spine is the most complex I've ever seen!" It's not normal back pain at all.

 

[lanejudy]

I'm not trying to be rude but if you have not experienced my pain, then you cannot understand. I'm not acting like I understand what others suffer with their ailments, syndromes, etc. because I am not in their situation. I would appreciate the same consideration.

No intent to be rude - it's an exercise in communication to repeat back what the other says to be sure I understand. I asked what you do while waiting for a DAS return time and what I heard as your response is apparently not what you intended to convey. I want everyone to get the accommodations they truly need, but communication is funny in that sometimes we don't realize our words aren't heard with the meaning we intended.

 

[Disneychick75]

No intent to be rude - it's an exercise in communication to repeat back what the other says to be sure I understand. I asked what you do while waiting for a DAS return time and what I heard as your response is apparently not what you intended to convey. I want everyone to get the accommodations they truly need, but communication is funny in that sometimes we don't realize our words aren't heard with the meaning we intended.

Thank you. Apparently, I did not make myself clear.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

My Disney party is usually only my wife and myself. I happen to be a wheelchair user. I also have other issues necessitating immediate bathroom access.I cannot complete toileting alone. If both my wife and I leave the line, what is the placeholder? There's not a party to return fo.

I guess Disney could utilize sensors like NASCAR does at racetracks in their "loops" for determining car position. Your Magic Band will set off a visual and audio clie when you get back to where you leff?

What happens when a person goes solo ?? I go solo 99% of the time. I literally use the bathroom every hour, sometimes more, if drinking more water. I didn't have DAS for that but thankful I had it when I had my annual pass. I gave my pass up last year. I'm really debating not getting one if only developmental disabilities will be qualifying for DAS. I can't see paying all that money to only last a couple of hours before leaving in pain

 

[JLTraveling]

Right?
So sorry for your Dad - pain is no fun at all.
My neurosurgeon said surgery is not even an option because the arthritis is so severe and now it's in lumbar, thoracic and cervical areas.
At this point, I'm going to still try to get a DAS. Sad that we might have to end up paying even more money for a Genie+. The only reason we're still going is so that we will have had the Disney experience with all of our grandchildren.

Have you tried radio-frequency ablation? That's what keeps my dad as relatively functional as he is. They burn off the nerves in the area every couple of years. I have no clue, obviously, if it would be an option for you. But not all docs know about it, so I wasn't sure if you'd been evaluated. Definitely not a cure, but Dad will take any relief he can get! Best of luck to you!

I also wanted to add on to my earlier comments by way of example (not directed at you, I just didn't want to make a separate post).

When a cane seat worked at a theme park: We wanted to see the last ever Bill and Ted show at HHN. Which involved lining up literally all day. But not inside a queue rope or building. Just out in the park. Dad brought his seat cane and set up shop. We got to know everyone around us, who gave us plenty of space. And everyone came and went throughout the day while the people around them held their place. Other than the handful of times that park managers moved us all to a different location, the line didn't move at all until wristband distribution started. So Dad spent the day with the cane seat sitting there while he stood, sat, walked, got food, moved to nearby benches, stretched, etc. Basically the same things he does while waiting for a DAS time.

When a cane seat didn't work at a theme park: We wanted to see the last Nightmare Fuel at last year's HHN. I got in line about 1030pm for the 1230am show. Dad sat on a nearby bench for a few minutes, then went for a walk, then sat on one of the low light poles behind the MIB sign, etc. About 1130, they corralled everyone, disabled and able-bodied, into tight holding pens. Dad managed to get the seat cane open, but he really couldn't use it. Too many people, not enough room for his legs. Standing and bending way over sometimes helps, but there was no room. He got a tiny bit of relief from leaning against the barricades, but that only helped for a few minutes. There just wasn't any way to do what he needed to do. It was the end of the night and he's stubborn, so he stayed. But an hour in that queue plus the 20 minute show, and that was it. We were the last people out of the park that night because it took him that long to gradually make his way to the exit. Another hour plus to make it through CityWalk and actually to the car. And he couldn't walk at all the next day.

So on what planet is that a reasonable accommodation? One standby queue, one hour long, then more hours to get back to the car, and absolutely nothing the next day. That's an equal experience to what able-bodied people have, right? *eyeroll*

 

[Disneychick75]

Have you tried radio-frequency ablation? That's what keeps my dad as relatively functional as he is. They burn off the nerves in the area every couple of years. I have no clue, obviously, if it would be an option for you. But not all docs know about it, so I wasn't sure if you'd been evaluated. Definitely not a cure, but Dad will take any relief he can get! Best of luck to you!

I also wanted to add on to my earlier comments by way of example (not directed at you, I just didn't want to make a separate post).

When a cane seat worked at a theme park: We wanted to see the last ever Bill and Ted show at HHN. Which involved lining up literally all day. But not inside a queue rope or building. Just out in the park. Dad brought his seat cane and set up shop. We got to know everyone around us, who gave us plenty of space. And everyone came and went throughout the day while the people around them held their place. Other than the handful of times that park managers moved us all to a different location, the line didn't move at all until wristband distribution started. So Dad spent the day with the cane seat sitting there while he stood, sat, walked, got food, moved to nearby benches, stretched, etc. Basically the same things he does while waiting for a DAS time.

When a cane seat didn't work at a theme park: We wanted to see the last Nightmare Fuel at last year's HHN. I got in line about 1030pm for the 1230am show. Dad sat on a nearby bench for a few minutes, then went for a walk, then sat on one of the low light poles behind the MIB sign, etc. About 1130, they corralled everyone, disabled and able-bodied, into tight holding pens. Dad managed to get the seat cane open, but he really couldn't use it. Too many people, not enough room for his legs. Standing and bending way over sometimes helps, but there was no room. He got a tiny bit of relief from leaning against the barricades, but that only helped for a few minutes. There just wasn't any way to do what he needed to do. It was the end of the night and he's stubborn, so he stayed. But an hour in that queue plus the 20 minute show, and that was it. We were the last people out of the park that night because it took him that long to gradually make his way to the exit. Another hour plus to make it through CityWalk and actually to the car. And he couldn't walk at all the next day.

So on what planet is that a reasonable accommodation? One standby queue, one hour long, then more hours to get back to the car, and absolutely nothing the next day. That's an equal experience to what able-bodied people have, right? *eyeroll*

Will mention the radio-frequency ablation to my doc. My husband and I are discussing a Rife machine because it's supposed to work wonders on arthritis and I can do the treatments at home.
Agree with the cane seat thingee. Cane gives and so will my back, lol.

 

[Tatebeck]

Wow. I've tried to read this entire thread to see if people reported updates on any further info/clarifications they received but it was like reading War & Peace, and then I wake up to 20 more pages and I just will never catch up, lol. I apologize if I'm addressing anything here that showed up after like page 40.

I'm not a lawyer like Hyper, I only have experience in employment law. Hopefully a disability rights lawyer can chime in. These are just my non-professional(?) thoughts.

I want to be clear up front: I write all this knowing we are operating on vague/incomplete information and need to see how this rolls out (recognizing some don't have that luxury. I myself...my trip is quite literally during the switch. I'm apparently on the "old" policies for the whole trip, arriving May before the switch).

I also read both recent rulings on disability access at Disney and Hyper has it down here:


Disney's argument here in Galvan was that 30% of the population is affected by anxiety. If park population on any given day represents general population, they would have to provide 30% of guests DAS (on top of all other conditions), and that would fundamentally alter their operations. Plaintiff's lawyer did not dispute this, and therefore his case failed on said grounds.

I think what people need to take from this here is that this ruling is essentially saying that if too many people have a condition, Disney doesn't have to accommodate it with DAS any longer. They only need to accommodate in a reasonable way that doesn't fundamentally alter their park operations. That is an exception written into the ADA. They can then extrapolate on that, I imagine, to include anyone who actually needs an accommodation by saying "x amount of people have conditions that would currently fall under our DAS eligibility. That would equal x amount of DAS users in our parks per day, which would fundamentally alter our operations". I have a feeling this is the crux of why they literally named Autism in the release -- it's the disability one of the major cases was based upon.

I do think this assertion can (and will) be challenged. A few things to note here:

- Plaintiff's lawyer in Galvan never challenged the original assertion that it was fundamentally altering, nor offered their own experts.

- Plaintiff's lawyer in A.L. V Disney never challenged the industrial engineering team's "study" on DAS impact, nor offered their own experts. This is akin to having a pharmaceutical company sponsor its own studies on its medications. Is that a study you trust is factual and unbiased? Of course not. And this "study" fails here for the same reasons. What the industrial engineers came up with, as others have pointed out, was akin to people who do NOT NEED DAS using the DAS system. I would say this is "sampling bias" (drawing conclusions from a set of data that isn’t representative of the population you’re trying to understand.) Of course that would have been the conclusion - the way it's designed and can be used would allow for this, no study needed. The only study that would be actually representative of users with disabilities is one where the users...have disabilities. Because there's clear abuse of the system, even their data now with guest use is bias/inaccurate. They also did the study over only 3 days. if this was a scientific study it wouldn't pass peer review. This can absolutely be challenged with a more scientific and unbiased study with the proper pool of participants.

- They argued that giving x amount of people DAS would fundamentally alter their operations and have an "adverse effect on park operations". Note, this ruling was made on 11.27.19. They then introduced Genie+ on 10.19.21. As many have pointed out, DAS and Genie+ do not offer the exact same experience, but they don't have to for this point. As some like to keep pointing out "just use Genie+!" I think that is the point here. It certainly doesn't work for many, but it does work for some. And Disney is trying to push abusers to use it (which is fine, of course, as they should), but also those who would/should be accommodated under ADA via "reasonable and necessary" accommodations. They argued it would fundamentally and negatively alter operations to accommodate x amount of people with DAS, then they fairly quickly fundamentally altered their operations in a like or similar way, "adversely affecting park operations" -- yet charged for it. We of course don't have the numbers on how many Genie+ & LL's are sold in a day, but that can be obtained during discovery. We ARE privy to wait time data and can see increases in standby (this could be attributed to "revenge travel", but it'd have to be compared against park attendance each day.) They are now cutting back on DAS use and will likely say that is what is affecting wait times & operations, but I think, with Genie+, that will be a hard sell this time around. Further, in the ruling in A.L. V Disney, the judge states: "More importantly, the DAS card is set up so A.L. would never have to physically wait in line more than 20 minutes." This was clearly an important aspect of DAS in their decision that it's a reasonable and proper accommodation, which is no longer the case. Long story short -- I feel there's a case to be made that Disney is attempting to charge for "reasonable and necessary" accommodations. At the very least, the introduction of Genie+ has made DAS a program that is no longer meeting the threshold of providing "an accommodation that provides autistic individuals with a "like experience" to the one nondisabled guests experience" (or other disabled individuals, for that matter). Hopefully a good lawyer who knows what they're doing and maybe a financially stable plaintiff will take it up, because litigation against Disney is neither cheap nor easy.

Very good information and discussion! Thanks!

One quick note: Pharmaceutical companies do actually primarily fund their own drug studies. They do sometimes get some funding or tax breaks though. They just have to submit all the data to the FDA so they aren't the ones approving their own drugs. That surprises some people and is always debated as a conflict of interest, but we need new drugs somehow. The cost to bring new drugs to market anymore is astronomical and no ones else would pay that amount other than the drug companies

Maybe I'll read the cases over myself and see if I have any more thoughts later!

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

So you walk with a rollator for a bit, sit a bit, obviously change positions. In my experience neither the standby queue nor the LL are standing still for 20 minutes. Queues move slowly, maybe stop but move again. The rollator allows you to sit and change position. You admit you can sit (while fidgiting) for up to 10 minutes, but the don't generally stand still that long before it moves again. It sounds like you can do standby queues but simply prefer the convenience of DAS.

I have a condition similar to the person you’re QTing and tried Genie+ and wheelchairs (which were agony) before trying DAS— it helped me last a bit longer in much less pain, and like @MinnieMSue I plan to try to rollator (or some sort of walking cane seat) on a short visit to see if it is good enough to make medium lines (and frankly longer LL waits) more bearable. Has anybody actually confirmed they are allowed and starting to be used? I would love to try it later this month at DLR before deciding what to do about a WDW trip.

For those who asked upthread, on our last trip to WDW the only DAS return we had to leave multiple times was Test Track (and we should have bailed on Thunder Mountain but didn’t realize it could be as bad as it looked) though I’ve had bad return waits on Soarin’ in the past two years as well. At DLR, Soarin’ can also back up (we don’t do it on crowded days) and Space Mountain regularly gets bad later the end of the day (over 20m, sometimes more than 20m to get to the merge), Incredicoaster has backed up the pier a few times lately (didn’t try it, didn’t want to risk it)… we rarely do Matterhorn because it’s too jerky with my spine but we did in Feb because my kids couldn’t remember it and really wanted to try it and it was 30m or so.

I’ve tried to make this point in a few places and don’t want to keep repeating myself but the ugly reality is that there’s a fixed amount of ride capacity and probably far more than 1:10 Americans currently qualify for DAS for some reason (or multiple reasons) and if we all bring 4-6 guests, more than half the park is using DAS, so Disney is trying to come up with an alternate system that is less attractive for people who don’t need it at all or who are marginal users, which will unfortunately also impact many of the people who truly rely on it (smaller parties, no advance selection, more waiting between rides) and then also making it less available to people can use other coping mechanisms. My current theory (based solely on reading the lawsuits I reviewed in these threads) is that Disney is opening its top tier attractions as VQs (and keeping them that way longer) because it helps them limit DAS use (we all get one ride per day and those of us who love the new ride can only use it once, just like able-bodied guests). If the prevalence of developmental, GI, and miscellaneous medical condition related disabilities overburdens DAS, even after modifications, we will see more restrictions and potentially more things moving to VQ (?) and eventually Disney will end up dramatically raising prices so it can provide all guests with minimal waits (doubling ticket prices so almost no line is ever over 30m).

For that reason, I urge all of you with legitimate needs to stop detailing all the reasons you really need DAS to prove your eligibility to randos on the internet. I’m certain that there are people who read these threads solely as inspiration to decide what to say on their next DAS call if the old “symptoms and limitations” stop working. I don’t know if there’s a way to limit readers in this board or more aggressively censor comments that describe specific situations when DAS/rider switch won’t work (and maybe the abusers will just look elsewhere)— but I can’t help but think we’ve contributing to the overuse problem here.

 

[Disneychick75]

I have a condition similar to the person you’re QTing and tried Genie+ and wheelchairs (which were agony) before trying DAS— it helped me last a bit longer in much less pain, and like @MinnieMSue I plan to try to rollator (or some sort of walking cane seat) on a short visit to see if it is good enough to make medium lines (and frankly longer LL waits) more bearable. Has anybody actually confirmed they are allowed and starting to be used? I would love to try it later this month at DLR before deciding what to do about a WDW trip.

For those who asked upthread, on our last trip to WDW the only DAS return we had to leave multiple times was Test Track (and we should have bailed on Thunder Mountain but didn’t realize it could be as bad as it looked) though I’ve had bad return waits on Soarin’ in the past two years as well. At DLR, Soarin’ can also back up (we don’t do it on crowded days) and Space Mountain regularly gets bad later the end of the day (over 20m, sometimes more than 20m to get to the merge), Incredicoaster has backed up the pier a few times lately (didn’t try it, didn’t want to risk it)… we rarely do Matterhorn because it’s too jerky with my spine but we did in Feb because my kids couldn’t remember it and really wanted to try it and it was 30m or so.

I’ve tried to make this point in a few places and don’t want to keep repeating myself but the ugly reality is that there’s a fixed amount of ride capacity and probably far more than 1:10 Americans currently qualify for DAS for some reason (or multiple reasons) and if we all bring 4-6 guests, more than half the park is using DAS, so Disney is trying to come up with an alternate system that is less attractive for people who don’t need it at all or who are marginal users, which will unfortunately also impact many of the people who truly rely on it (smaller parties, no advance selection, more waiting between rides) and then also making it less available to people can use other coping mechanisms. My current theory (based solely on reading the lawsuits I reviewed in these threads) is that Disney is opening its top tier attractions as VQs (and keeping them that way longer) because it helps them limit DAS use (we all get one ride per day and those of us who love the new ride can only use it once, just like able-bodied guests). If the prevalence of developmental, GI, and miscellaneous medical condition related disabilities overburdens DAS, even after modifications, we will see more restrictions and potentially more things moving to VQ (?) and eventually Disney will end up dramatically raising prices so it can provide all guests with minimal waits (doubling ticket prices so almost no line is ever over 30m).

For that reason, I urge all of you with legitimate needs to stop detailing all the reasons you really need DAS to prove your eligibility to randos on the internet. I’m certain that there are people who read these threads solely as inspiration to decide what to say on their next DAS call if the old “symptoms and limitations” stop working. I don’t know if there’s a way to limit readers in this board or more aggressively censor comments that describe specific situations when DAS/rider switch won’t work (and maybe the abusers will just look elsewhere)— but I can’t help but think we’ve contributing to the overuse problem here.

Rollators are allowed. I used one in November. A CM will take it right before loading and it will be waiting where you exit the ride. My husband grabbed mine for me after we rode.