Cutting Funeral costs-not follwing wishes of Loved one

[Dallas_Lady]

If the deceased left explicit instructions those should be followed. Then, there would be no debates about how things should be handled.

But if the deceased doesn't leave enough money to cover those wishes then they get what they get (which is the OPs issue).

 

[MomToOne]

Yep. From post one, she needs, actually mother in law needs, to define what she wants and talk to the priest about if it's possible. But if the body is is important to her, and transport is outside the budget, and the priest won't do a mass in the funeral home, I don't think it's the OPs problem to make sure her mother in law gets what she wants

Well, there is also a commandment about honoring your father and mother. Last I checked, I didn't see an addendum that says "only if it doesn't cost you anything". Now while I don't think that means you have to lead yourself to ruin, I DO believe it means you spend some of your own money to honor their final wishes if it is possible.

 

[RitaE]

I'm still wondering how the OP's husband feels about this - since it really doesn't seem to me the issue seems to be money at all but rather the OP feels that church ceremony is somehow unneeded since there won't be many mourners outside of the immediate family. It is really hard to explain the importance of religious and spiritual beliefs to somebody who doesn't have that in their own life.

This is one instance where within certain bounds I think the Daughter In Law needs to step back and let the lady's children make the decision on how to handle their Mother's funeral.

I don't say this often but up to an feasible limit, some things are more important than saving money. I don't feel anybody should spend themselves into oblivion to honor unreasonable requests but a Church funeral for somebody who wishes it? I just have to think you must really hate the lady if you really want that much to deny her the final wish because it isn't your preference and you find it inconvenient.

 

[duffy]

I'm still wondering how the OP's husband feels about this - since it really doesn't seem to me the issue seems to be money at all but rather the OP feels that church ceremony is somehow unneeded since there won't be many mourners outside of the immediate family. It is really hard to explain the importance of religious and spiritual beliefs to somebody who doesn't have that in their own life.

This is one instance where within certain bounds I think the Daughter In Law needs to step back and let the lady's children make the decision on how to handle their Mother's funeral.

I don't say this often but up to an feasible limit, some things are more important than saving money. I don't feel anybody should spend themselves into oblivion to honor unreasonable requests but a Church funeral for somebody who wishes it? I just have to think you must really hate the lady if you really want that much to deny her the final wish because it isn't your preference and you find it inconvenient.

Yes.

 

[MrsPete]

I don't agree. Funerals and memorials are as much for the living as the dead. My brother in law is dying and doesn't want a memorial, he wants an Irish wake in a bar with a lot of whiskey. How are my mother in laws 75 year old friends supposed to pay their respects at an event like that? Do my 12 and 13 year old, his niece and nephew, not get an opportunity to say a final goodbye surrounded by the people who loved their uncle and love them? Does he really expect his 70 year old aunt to come halfway across the country for a night in a bar? Yet, she will come, and we need to give her something to attend. And my kids are going to need something. There are going to be a lot of people left out of his idea of a "funeral" .

You make some very valid points, and I'd suggest that a person who wants something off-beat like this should plan to have a two-part funeral: The traditional portion first for the whole family, then a sort of "after party" for those who'd appreciate and enjoy this venue. Perhaps it could be done in place of the more usual meal.

I've been involved in two rather off-beat funerals, both of which were done in good taste. One was for a man enjoyed woodworking and was a bluegrass musician. His memorial was held in his woodworking shop, and we listened to a recording of him playing music. The other was an outdoor dance, and everyone blew bubbles. Both were appropriate for the person who'd died AND ALSO appropriate for everyone who attended.

A funeral is a little like a wedding. A priest will marry you in church for free (or a donation), but that isn't where the expense comes in. And not many brides would believe that a simple wedding mass, without the bells and whistles, fits their idea of a wedding. However, just because you want a Vera Wang gown and a bouquet if orchids does not mean its affordable to you or your family, and you are still sacramentally married even if you only had two attendants and they wore dresses they had in their closets.

That's the best analogy yet. You're just as married in a simple dress from JC Penny's; you're just as buried with a small ceremony . . . yet most of us DO care whether we're married in a church or at the courthouse.

Whether it costs $10 or $10,000 and whether you want it in church or at the drive-thru of McDonalds's, you should make plans for it and pay for it yourself before that day even comes.

That's a valid point. If you expect someone else to pay for your funeral, that other person does have some say-so in what happens. However, I don't hear the OP saying that she's unwilling to pay anything . . . just that she wants to keep the cost low. The real issue is the venue, which we've established is fairly low.

Yes, sure, if you want a full Cathedral Choir and sixteen altar servers and masses of flowers, there is an expense associated with that which should be borne by the estate.

When we started, I didn't know whether a full-blown Catholic mass included all those things or not -- and I'm still not clear on the carrying gifts things -- but I agree that IF your tastes run to the "full Cathedral Choir" thing, you ought to be willing to bear the burden of the cost yourself. In contrast, if you're happy with Cousin Susie singing and a reasonable spray of flowers on the coffin, then the family should be able to manage the church portion.

agree with the posters that say there are lots of things you are not required to do. I've posted before about my MIL's arrangements -- the cost of her cremation was just under $1,000 and we didn't use the funeral home for anything else . . . Maybe it's a Southern thing, but the women of the church prepared a feast after my mom's service and would have done the same for my dad's except that the owner of a famous mountain restaurant had already invited everyone to come there.

If the internet is a reliable source, cremation seems to be very much on the upswing -- and I suspect that the relatively low cost you mentioned is the reason.

Yes, the church feeding the family is definitely a Southern thing. Anyone at our church expects a feast for a crowd to be delivered to the house for after the funeral. It's usually organized by the Sunday School class, but other people kick in too. And anyone who couldn't participate for some reason (didn't hear in time, out of town, whatever) always brings food the following week to supplement the leftovers. The family can always plan on plenty to feed out-of-town guests and themselves. Other areas may do this as well, but this is very much a Southern Baptist thing.

 

[NotUrsula]

If that was what he wanted, it would be doable. But that isn't what he wants. What he wants is the sort of event at which my parents would be distinctly uncomfortable. No religious component whatsoever (he isn't remotely religious), no pre party memorial send off,...just the "I'd like my friends to get together and get drunk with a lot of loud music."

I think I'm going to end up hosting a day after the "wake" open house to give people who really don't care to be in a bar getting drunk a chance to comfort his mother and my husband.

Or you could just have it both ways in the same place; start the event a bit earlier and let the beginning of it be more of a family event, and then after the older folks and the kids leave, his buddies can get as plastered as they like after the band starts playing. Best of luck on finding a good compromise.

My perspective on this is that there *is* a component for the living in every funeral, and unless the deceased was so adamantly against any kind of religious goodwill even being offered (given that he won't actually have to sit and listen to it), then, like chicken soup, it can't hurt to add a few components that comfort the living, in addition to honoring the wishes of the deceased.

My own brother was someone that I didn't get along with, and he was (purely by his own choice) estranged from the family when he died. Two days before he died, a hospital social worker found my sister's phone number among his things and called to let her know where he was and that he was dying. He died in a VA hospital in Texas. Naturally, the one final wish that he had expressed was to have his ashes scattered somewhere in the mountains of another state entirely. No one in our family has any connection to that state except for me, because my DH has family there. Since it would have been a very expensive trip for anyone in my family, I agreed to take charge of the ashes and scatter them the next time I happened to go to visit DH' family, but as there was no money in my brother's estate for the purpose, I wasn't going to make a special trip to do it. As it happened, it was two years before I made the trip, so that sealed cardboard box sat on a shelf in my basement for that long. Scattering the ashes was for him, but the memorial service that my eldest sister's priest performed during our next family holiday gathering after his death was for us. He probably would have preferred that we not have such a service, but since he was dead already and no part of him was present for it, it wasn't his call to make.

 

[tar heel]

I'm with MrsPete on still not understanding some of the stuff talked about. I also have no idea what the gifts are and where they have to be carried and have only a vague idea about mass cards. Some of the things listed as adding to expense seem like things church members/friends would do without payment. None of the Protestant churches I'm familiar with would charge you for a funeral. It's customary to give the minister something, but I think he/she would do the service without payment. In churches with professional music people, you would give them something, too. I've never known anyone who had to pay for a dinner after a funeral!

 

[Swan4Me]

I'm with MrsPete on still not understanding some of the stuff talked about. I also have no idea what the gifts are and where they have to be carried and have only a vague idea about mass cards. !

There is a point in the Mass(having attended one funeral Mass lately) where two people(usually relatives of the deceased) bring the wine and something else to the altar. there is another time when a relative goes to the lecturn to read a bible Passage-theses are the things we (who havent attended Mass in ages) would not know when to do this-or how to bring things to the altar etc

 

[crisi]

Well, there is also a commandment about honoring your father and mother. Last I checked, I didn't see an addendum that says "only if it doesn't cost you anything". Now while I don't think that means you have to lead yourself to ruin, I DO believe it means you spend some of your own money to honor their final wishes if it is possible.

I'm not Christian, Jewish or Muslim so that isn't an argument that carries a lot of weight with me. I do believe you should honor your parents, but I don't thing that means you should treat them like spoiled children.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm with MrsPete on still not understanding some of the stuff talked about. I also have no idea what the gifts are and where they have to be carried and have only a vague idea about mass cards. Some of the things listed as adding to expense seem like things church members/friends would do without payment. None of the Protestant churches I'm familiar with would charge you for a funeral. It's customary to give the minister something, but I think he/she would do the service without payment. In churches with professional music people, you would give them something, too. I've never known anyone who had to pay for a dinner after a funeral!

The "gifts" are the bottles of water and wine used for the preparation of Communion; they are provided by the church and you don't have to pay for them, but it is part of the Mass ritual that someone in the Congregation carries them forward from the back of the church up the aisle to the Priest. You do not have to be a practicing Catholic to carry them to him, but if no one is comfortable doing it, the Priest will have the altar server do it.

Mass cards have two forms, and vary a bit by ethnic tradition. One form of Mass card is received in return for a small donation to the deceased's parish church and indicates that a regular Mass will be dedicated in his/her honor; these are sent to the family enclosed in the sympathy cards, and don't cost the family a penny. However, what we were specifically speaking of as an expense are also known as Memorium cards; they are custom-printed small cards ordered by the family. They contain a photo of the deceased with the name, the date and place of death, and usually a printed prayer or poem included. These are distributed to the guests at the wake and funeral as a memento, or enclosed in the cards sent out in acknowledgment of flowers and memorial donations. They are most commonly done by Irish, Italian, and Hispanic families; here is a photo of a typical Irish card: http://www.cherishedmemories.ie/images/fish_mini_keep.jpg
(Older ones were b&w and more solemn-looking: the photos on the left of this page show both sides of the one done for the mourners who came to JFK's funeral: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/jfk.htm)

I have dozens of these cards in an album; my mother saved them meticulously, and I've added some since her death. How much they will cost depends on how many you need and how elaborate they are; most of the time a box of about 200 of the small ones can be purchased for around $150 plus shipping.
(As with any custom print order, if you only order a small lot the cost per each will be higher.)

 

[crisi]

Yes, the church feeding the family is definitely a Southern thing. Anyone at our church expects a feast for a crowd to be delivered to the house for after the funeral. It's usually organized by the Sunday School class, but other people kick in too. And anyone who couldn't participate for some reason (didn't hear in time, out of town, whatever) always brings food the following week to supplement the leftovers. The family can always plan on plenty to feed out-of-town guests and themselves. Other areas may do this as well, but this is very much a Southern Baptist thing.

it's a northern Unitarian thing, too. Church ladies exist in all sorts of churches....however, they are a dying breed in certain congregations. Although my grandmother was an active church lady herself and made a ton of hot dish for funerals, when we buried her, we needed to have the funeral catered...she was one of the few left and the remaining church ladies were getting too old to host a large funeral.

It's also done at the church ladies expense in many of the places I'm familiar with. My husbands aunt died and had a Luthern Iowa funeral, and very active church ladies donated a ton of food. But it can get expensive to be a church lady. When people say this sort of thing is free, it's nice to remember that someone is paying for it, it just isn't you.

 

[ccgirl]

But if the deceased doesn't leave enough money to cover those wishes then they get what they get (which is the OPs issue).

We must be reading the post differently. The MiL does have a small policy. Only the OP knows how much that policy is. The MiL has said for years she wants a funeral mass in a Catholic church. The OP is trying to talk her out of it because, it sounds like it would be awkward for her, and she feels the money could be better spent. However, the money is that of the MiL and should be spent how she desires.

 

[MomToOne]

I'm not Christian, Jewish or Muslim so that isn't an argument that carries a lot of weight with me. I do believe you should honor your parents, but I don't thing that means you should treat them like spoiled children.

So asking for a church funeral is acting like a spoiled child???????? Sorry - I just don't get that one.

Your parents raised you. You can spend a few hundred dollars to honor this wish in acknowledgement of that. (My father's funeral mass cost us exactly $300 - we hired a pianist and cantor, but didn't bother with flowers, mass cards, etc. And it was BEAUTIFUL.)

And for everyone arguing that transporting the body to the church is an added expense, I've been Googling funeral home sites - all of the price lists I've looked at so far charge the same fee for transporting the body from the funeral home, to the church and then the cemetary as they charge for going straight from the funeral home to the cemetary. So I don't get this whole extra "cost of transporting the body" argument?

 

[mrsklamc]

So asking for a church funeral is acting like a spoiled child???????? Sorry - I just don't get that one.

No, having pages of demands that you don't plan on paying for yourself is acting like a spoiled child.

 

[MomToOne]

No, having pages of demands that you don't plan on paying for yourself is acting like a spoiled child.

Per the OP, in their latest conversation the one thing the mother doesn't want to give up is the church mass. So we are down to one thing, not "pages of demands".

 

[crisi]

Per the OP, in their latest conversation the one thing the mother stated is most important to her is the church mass. So we are down to one thing, not "pages of demands".

That depends on what is involved in the church mass, as I've said over and over. I see no reason why MILs wishes for a mass should not be adhered to, but, as I said before, there is a diffence in getting married in a church mass and having a big wedding. If her church funeral plans are of the bridezilla nature, then, yes, there is every reason not to respect THOSE wishes unless MIL has savings to pay for it. And no reason not to if the expenses are going to be a small donation to the church, even if the rest of the family isn't catholic and won't be comfortable (but I also think the survivors should have whatever memorial service they feel comfortable with if they feel the need to), but it should be of a non denominational nature...no post death conversions to the LDS for instance.)

 

[kimgg]

No, having pages of demands that you don't plan on paying for yourself is acting like a spoiled child.

WOW! Following a lifelong tradition and loyalty to your faith to it's ultimate conclusion to have a Catholic funeral in your church is a spoiled child??

I'm sorry, I think the person who would say such a thing is the one who is acting like a child. I'm sorry if that is disrespectful, but so was that comment.

I am floored. I think about my funeral at times and would like it to be in our family church and think of what songs I would like played, etc. - not for ME, but to comfort those left behind. If I write that down and ask that this be followed, it is in consideration of those left behind so they know my wishes and to comfort them as my last act of love. This is the opposite of a spoiled child!

 

[mrsklamc]

WOW! Following a lifelong tradition and loyalty to your faith to it's ultimate conclusion to have a Catholic funeral in your church is a spoiled child??

Um, no...do not put words in other people's mouths. You quoted exactly what I said, which is nothing like what your conclusion above is. What I said is that having pages of demands that you are not prepared to pay for is acting like a spoiled child. I made no mention of a Catholic funeral or anything else.

 

[kimgg]

One more point - even Catholics don't necessarily "know how" to bring the gifts to the alter - I've done it maybe once in my life and pay no mind to how it's done much when others do it. It takes about 10 seconds to explain to whoever does it - the amount of prep most people are given is non-existent - the one time I did it, I was asked on the spur of the moment right before I did it, and was basically handed the "gift" and asked to take it to the front and hand it to the priest when he reached for it. I think the only other element is to "bow" to the alter as you walk back to your seat, but if that is left out no one is going to notice or much care. I would also think someone from the church could do this if no one was willing.

So to worry about not knowing what to do is not necessary. And if her children were brought up Catholic, wouldn't having a Catholic mass be comforting to them, as it would remind them of their spiritual childhood, even if they chose to change as they became adults? Death is a time to remember fondly the person who has passed, right? She was their mother after all?

OK, I'll let this go

 

[mrsklamc]

Per the OP, in their latest conversation the one thing the mother doesn't want to give up is the church mass. So we are down to one thing, not "pages of demands".

Then that's not what I was talking about. I made an independent statement. You said that people are to honor their father and mother, and Crisi said that that does not mean treating them like spoiled children. I stated that pages of demands without means to fund them is acting like a spoiled child, and you decided to launch a personal attack against me.