Cutting Funeral costs-not follwing wishes of Loved one

[punkin]

As already stated several times, Catholic funeral Masses are not as complex as a Wedding Mass. The Parish can either handle everything or cue the persons chosen to give readings, bring up gifts, etc.

It's not expensive. It's not inconvenient. It's not time-consuming. It's not a major burden in terms of actions and responsibilities.

Most of the family was Catholic at some point and the sister is still active in her own parish. The MIL is a Catholic and this is what she's asked for at the end of her life. The woman is still alive, has some assets and a small insurance policy, so she's not the financial burden the OP is trying to paint.

There's really no excuse for denying the woman what many Catholics consider to be a final blessing and send-off. As already stated, a Catholic funeral is NOT a sacrament, but it is a respectful and prayerful farewell blessing that many feel helps their souls ascend into Heaven.

Cheap out on the flowers, the visitation/wake, even the hospitality, but don't cheat the woman out of her funeral Mass in Church.

Well, I definitely agree with you on that. I am just pointing out that for non-Catholics sitting through a Mass is not a comfortable thing. Nevertheless, if these are the woman's last wishes (and I know she is still alive) I would do my best to see them followed if this was my family member.

 

[Hannathy]

Funeral proceedings are mostly for the living. You can state your preferences but they are carried out by those that survive you and what they are comfortable with. I would not be comfortable with having a Catholic Mass since I am not Catholic, and would not choose one if I had to do all the arrangements. I would feel very much like an outsider and not how I want to feel at my Mothers funeral. You are dead, what brings comfort to the living is what is the most important.


My Mother took the route of telling us what she didn't want done and saying the rest was up to us since we had to do it. She picked and paid for where she wanted buried and the casket and the funeral home she wanted. She had 2 requests and they were simple ones - she did not want a picture in the obituary(hated getting her picture taken) and did not want to be buried or shown in nightgown, robe type thing. But truth is we could have done both if we wanted to.

I think if you have a good relationship with your family and through the years you have respected them and their wishes then they will respect your wishes as much as they can and are comfortable with when they are in pain.

That is why they are called last requests or wishes, not guarantees.

 

[ccgirl]

Well, I definitely agree with you on that. I am just pointing out that for non-Catholics sitting through a Mass is not a comfortable thing. Nevertheless, if these are the woman's last wishes (and I know she is still alive) I would do my best to see them followed if this was my family member.

I would say that funerals, in general, are uncomfortable. I'm sure many would agree it's uncomfortable sitting in a funeral home with an open casket as well.

Funeral proceedings are mostly for the living. You can state your preferences but they are carried out by those that survive you and what they are comfortable with. I would not be comfortable with having a Catholic Mass since I am not Catholic, and would not choose one if I had to do all the arrangements. I would feel very much like an outsider and not how I want to feel at my Mothers funeral. You are dead, what brings comfort to the living is what is the most important.


My Mother took the route of telling us what she didn't want done and saying the rest was up to us since we had to do it. She picked and paid for where she wanted buried and the casket and the funeral home she wanted. She had 2 requests and they were simple ones - she did not want a picture in the obituary(hated getting her picture taken) and did not want to be buried or shown in nightgown, robe type thing. But truth is we could have done both if we wanted to.

I think if you have a good relationship with your family and through the years you have respected them and their wishes then they will respect your wishes as much as they can and are comfortable with when they are in pain.

That is why they are called last requests or wishes, not guarantees.

I agree/disagree to a point. If the deceased left explicit instructions of their wishes along with the finances to fund it; I think it is very disrespectful not to honor their last wishes. To the MiL, the Catholic Mass is probably a simple request too.

Again, what part of a funeral is actually comfortable?

The mother of a very dear friend of mine passed a few years ago. She was Jewish. The thought didn't even cross my mind that I may be uncomfortable as a Catholic. I was there to show support to my friend. WHen they put dirt on top of the casket I was taken back as I had never seen that. Did it make me uncomfortable, sure, but so what.

Both my mother and sister have expressed their wishes to be cremated. Cremation is not something I am comfortable with. But, guess what, I wouldn't for a moment consider disrespecting their final wish to suit me. They will both be cremated as requested.

 

[buffettgirl]

I would say that funerals, in general, are uncomfortable. I'm sure many would agree it's uncomfortable sitting in a funeral home with an open casket as well.



I agree/disagree to a point. If the deceased left explicit instructions of their wishes along with the finances to fund it; I think it is very disrespectful not to honor their last wishes. To the MiL, the Catholic Mass is probably a simple request too.

Again, what part of a funeral is actually comfortable?

The mother of a very dear friend of mine passed a few years ago. She was Jewish. The thought didn't even cross my mind that I may be uncomfortable as a Catholic. I was there to show support to my friend. WHen they put dirt on top of the casket I was taken back as I had never seen that. Did it make me uncomfortable, sure, but so what.

Both my mother and sister have expressed their wishes to be cremated. Cremation is not something I am comfortable with. But, guess what, I wouldn't for a moment consider disrespecting their final wish to suit me. They will both be cremated as requested.

I think the whole concept of Mass is just a very misunderstood concept to those who are not Catholic. It's quite different from any other Christian celebration or anything that is called a service or mass in another denomination. If people are coming from that tradition then it's very easy to see why people think it's not necessary.

 

[Hannathy]

Again, what part of a funeral is actually comfortable?

The mother of a very dear friend of mine passed a few years ago. She was Jewish. The thought didn't even cross my mind that I may be uncomfortable as a Catholic. I was there to show support to my friend. WHen they put dirt on top of the casket I was taken back as I had never seen that. Did it make me uncomfortable, sure, but so what.

.

A lot of funerals bring comfort to those grieving. My Mother's did. If you are uncomfortable with the religion to begin with there is no way it will do anything but make you more uncomfortable.

And Big big difference in going as a friend and having it be your Mother. You didn't plan or chose the Jewish funeral the family did. I am referring to one you actually choose and plan for someone very close to you.

 

[Dustykins]

I think the expense involved is more than just the funeral mass. There are probably other things involved and, yes, you DO have to pay the church $$$$ for a funeral mass. I don't see the church absorbing the cost of ANYTHING without a lot of hassle --- like having to prove your financial hardship, etc -- something the OP and the siblings may not be willing to do.

Yes, mothers do sacrifice a lot for their children --- I have one and don't I know it! However, why would she place this type of financial burden on her children?? Especially for a funeral that she won't be around to enjoy??? I just don't get it and find it extremely selfish.

It's been covered before, but...the church will almost definitely do the Mass for a minimal ($100-200) donation. Even for my wedding it was a suggested donation and only $200 and that was a lot more hassle.

However, I can *guarantee* that having a service at the funeral home will cost *way* more money than that. Sure, there may be some transportation costs, but they are going to be paying that anyway, there may be some added expense there, but I'd be completely shocked if it cost more to transport the casket than to have a service at the funeral home.

 

[ccgirl]

A lot of funerals bring comfort to those grieving. My Mother's did. If you are uncomfortable with the religion to begin with there is no way it will do anything but make you more uncomfortable.

And Big big difference in going as a friend and having it be your Mother. You didn't plan or chose the Jewish funeral the family did. I am referring to one you actually choose and plan for someone very close to you.

I agree. WHich is why I had the comment about my mother and sister wanting to be cremated. It is something I am against but I will still honor their wishes despite my personal feelings.

 

[azdisneylover]

Would you not do something your loved one wanted, to cut cost?


MY MIL has written notes for 20 years about the precise things she wants for her funeral. There is little $$ left-so some costs will be taken by us and his sis.
Basically, everyone in her generation has died off, and she always wanted a big Catholic Mass at church. Moree and more we see prople having the service at the very nice Chapel at the funeral home.
Noone in our family practices the Catholic Faith, except Sis(not her DH or her kids or spouces) -so there will be noone to read scripture-or bring gifts to altar or even take Communion


So would we be wrong to have a smaller service in the Funeral Home Chapel?

I understand where you are coming from and I agree with many of the posters that a Catholic mass at Church isn't that expensive, especially if you talk with them. I would suggest you get a copy of the 20 years worth of notes and get a couple of prices for each of the items on the list, then give the list to your hubby. Let his siblings and his parents hash it out.

I am in a similar position right now. My FIL has been diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. It has spread everywhere, including his brain and has been given less than 3 months to live.

Support your hubby, but try to keep out of the hornet's nest, so to speak.

 

[punkin]

I agree. WHich is why I had the comment about my mother and sister wanting to be cremated. It is something I am against but I will still honor their wishes despite my personal feelings.

Actually, I know my MIL wants to be cremated. She is still rather young, but made her wishes known. I am generally against cremation (my religion), but if this is what she wants it never crossed my mind to arrange anything else for her.

 

[kimgg]

As already stated several times, Catholic funeral Masses are not as complex as a Wedding Mass. The Parish can either handle everything or cue the persons chosen to give readings, bring up gifts, etc.

It's not expensive. It's not inconvenient. It's not time-consuming. It's not a major burden in terms of actions and responsibilities.

Most of the family was Catholic at some point and the sister is still active in her own parish. The MIL is a Catholic and this is what she's asked for at the end of her life. The woman is still alive, has some assets and a small insurance policy, so she's not the financial burden the OP is trying to paint.

There's really no excuse for denying the woman what many Catholics consider to be a final blessing and send-off. As already stated, a Catholic funeral is NOT a sacrament, but it is a respectful and prayerful farewell blessing that many feel helps their souls ascend into Heaven.

Cheap out on the flowers, the visitation/wake, even the hospitality, but don't cheat the woman out of her funeral Mass in Church.

Thank you. Mass is just a Catholic church service. Not an alien convention requiring you to stand on your head or do cart wheels. It's just church which would most likely be less than an hour of their time.

I would add: some people may have attended a rosary at the wake in the past. Those can "feel" long because they are repetitive. The mass is different. It is simply listening to readings and communion is offered but not required. Yes there is some standing, sitting, and kneeling. Many people choose to sit rather than kneel, even those who are Catholic (probably due to bad knees) so that part is optional if you wish. Nothing to fear .

 

[ccgirl]

Actually, I know my MIL wants to be cremated. She is still rather young, but made her wishes known. I am generally against cremation (my religion), but if this is what she wants it never crossed my mind to arrange anything else for her.

My point exactly. So, if a Catholic Mass is the MiL wishes, why would the though cross someone's mind to arrange anything else for her?

Not speaking ot you directly but the posters say the survivors should arrange what they want despite MiL's wishes.

 

[NotUrsula]

??? The OP has not mentioned any need to transport a body internationally, or any other extreme situation such as that (or even cremation for that matter, I'm not sure how you pulled that into my comment - the OP has not indicated her MIL wants or has agreed to be cremated). I understand that those cases include significant costs, but my comment about funeral homes including a stop at a local church in the price of the hearse was in regards to the OPs situation - which sounds like it is just transport of a body in a coffin across town - and there is no increased cost for that at least the cases I was looking at. The funeral homes charge the same for the hearse for funeral home -> church -> cemetary as they do for funeral home -> cemetary.

I said it because you asked why transport costs could be an issue, and I answered that it becomes an issue when cremation is involved. Obviously, if cremation is off the table, transport costs will be a given, but if cremation *is* an option, transport costs may vary according to when the cremation is done: before or after the funeral service. The elimination of the cost of transport FROM the funeral home to anywhere at all is a big part of what makes direct cremation the least expensive funerary option. (Transport from the place of death to a local crematory facility or funeral home is always included in any kind of funerary arrangement.)

As to the international comments, I mentioned it because it is interesting and because it is a good illustration of the size of the markup that funeral directors tend to charge for any and all transport services. Transport is always one of the most inflated cost factors, even when it is local, because with the weight and size of an intact body, most people simply don't have the means to do that part themselves even if they wanted to.

PS: About the stipend for the Mass: believe me, if the OP tells the priest that there will be no Mass if a fee is required, then the priest will absolutely tell her that it can be done at no charge. The Church feels that this ritual, while not a sacrament, *is* important for the soul of the deceased, and it would absolutely violate doctrine to refuse to perform it for cost reasons only.

 

[Pigeon]

I think it's unspeakably disrespectful to not follow the deceased's instructions where practical. It's the final insult. I don't think the funeral is all about what the survivors want. The survivors get to set the rules for their own funerals.

I just went through this with my ILs when my FIL died. He left very explicit instructions that he wanted a very private, no-frills burial. My BIL bullied my MIL into something that FIL would have hated. DH and I will never forgive him.

That said, the deceased has an obligation to leave the money to cover the type of arrangements they want or to pre-plan and pre-pay their funerals. If they don't do that, it is not the obligation of the survivors to have to assume financial responsibilty for the funeral.

 

[MomToOne]

Funeral proceedings are mostly for the living. You can state your preferences but they are carried out by those that survive you and what they are comfortable with. I would not be comfortable with having a Catholic Mass since I am not Catholic, and would not choose one if I had to do all the arrangements. I would feel very much like an outsider and not how I want to feel at my Mothers funeral. You are dead, what brings comfort to the living is what is the most important.

If you are Catholic, you believe the mass is for much more than just the living. Prayers are said for the soul during the mass, to deal with that whole Purgatory thing we firmly believe in (I honestly just don't konw if any other religions believe in that, or to the extent Catholics believe in it).

If you are not Catholic, then you might not get it at all. But maybe then you should trust the Catholics when they say the mass IS important to the person who requested it, even though they are dead, at least according to their belief.

 

[okeydokey]

If you are Catholic, you believe the mass is for much more than just the living. Prayers are said for the soul during the mass, to deal with that whole Purgatory thing we firmly believe in (I honestly just don't konw if any other religions believe in that, or to the extent Catholics believe in it).

If you are not Catholic, then you might not get it at all. But maybe then you should trust the Catholics when they say the mass IS important to the person who requested it, even though they are dead, at least according to their belief.

I'm Catholic and I never believed in purgatory. I do, however, think the MIL should get her Mass if that is what she wants. I am curious as to what her son thinks. We are only hearing the thoughts of the DIL in this particular case.

I hope if my kids marry, their spouses will respect my end of life wishes.

 

[Nancyg56]

I think there is more going on here than a money saving issue. OP wrote that no one in the family is Catholic and it seems like they would feel uncomfortable sitting through a Mass, particularly without knowing when someone has to go up to the altar and no one in the family would be comfortable receiving communion....things like that.

As a non-catholic (non-christian even) who has sat through several long masses at elaborate weddings (not funerals yet, thank goodness), I certainly see the problem. Why pay anything extra for everyone involved to be extremely uncomfortable?

However, if it was my MIL, I would bear the discomfort and unease, and even pay some extra (though, not exorbitant amount extra) to provide my MIL the comfort of knowing she would be sent off "right" when the time came.

It would not be necessary for her family to sit through it if they felt uncomfortable. The OP also tossed in "convenience" at some point. A Funeral or Memorial Mass does not exceed 60 minutes.

As already stated several times, Catholic funeral Masses are not as complex as a Wedding Mass. The Parish can either handle everything or cue the persons chosen to give readings, bring up gifts, etc.

It's not expensive. It's not inconvenient. It's not time-consuming. It's not a major burden in terms of actions and responsibilities.

Most of the family was Catholic at some point and the sister is still active in her own parish. The MIL is a Catholic and this is what she's asked for at the end of her life. The woman is still alive, has some assets and a small insurance policy, so she's not the financial burden the OP is trying to paint.

There's really no excuse for denying the woman what many Catholics consider to be a final blessing and send-off. As already stated, a Catholic funeral is NOT a sacrament, but it is a respectful and prayerful farewell blessing that many feel helps their souls ascend into Heaven.

Cheap out on the flowers, the visitation/wake, even the hospitality, but don't cheat the woman out of her funeral Mass in Church.

For a Catholic forgoing a Mass is not an option. As you said, forget the flowers, no organist or Cantor, and feed everyone tuna sandwiches.

Well, I definitely agree with you on that. I am just pointing out that for non-Catholics sitting through a Mass is not a comfortable thing. Nevertheless, if these are the woman's last wishes (and I know she is still alive) I would do my best to see them followed if this was my family member.

I hate Funeral Masses, they make me cry. And I am Catholic. What I find a bit odd is that the woman is alive, has specified she wants a Funeral Mass, has a DD who is in charge and is a practicing Catholic and yet the OP, who is a DIL wants to get rid of the Mass to save money.

If you are Catholic, you believe the mass is for much more than just the living. Prayers are said for the soul during the mass, to deal with that whole Purgatory thing we firmly believe in (I honestly just don't konw if any other religions believe in that, or to the extent Catholics believe in it).

If you are not Catholic, then you might not get it at all. But maybe then you should trust the Catholics when they say the mass IS important to the person who requested it, even though they are dead, at least according to their belief.

Yes.

 

[bumbershoot]

Well, I definitely agree with you on that. I am just pointing out that for non-Catholics sitting through a Mass is not a comfortable thing.

For *some* non-Catholics it might be uncomfortable. I quite like them. Don't believe what they are saying, but I still like them.

I would feel very much like an outsider and not how I want to feel at my Mothers funeral.

That IS true. I experienced it. My mom met the minister one time (she and stepdad were big church-hoppers and they'd just joined when she was diagnosed with leukemia), and he had NO idea who she was. He followed the very fundamentalist stuff his church did (which is how my stepdad believes), and went on and on and ON about how people who don't believe will never EVER see her again blah blah blah. If he'd known her he would have understood that she had two kids NOT raised in religion, this was new to her with her remarriage, and that he was utterly destroying at least one of her children sitting there (I was literally sitting on my hands so I didn't leap up and kill the man). It sucks to feel like that.

However, I've NEVER felt that way at a Catholic funeral. Not even once. Most discomfort I felt was at an Easter mass not knowing what to do and following along, then at the very end having my friend tell me I didn't have to do the up/down stuff.

Thank you. Mass is just a Catholic church service. Not an alien convention requiring you to stand on your head or do cart wheels.

And, helpful hint from all my Catholic friends...as a non-Catholic you don't have to move a muscle during it. If there's up/down stuff you can just sit there!

 

[disney1990]

1. We don't know that the OP would be "put into debt" to follow her MILs wishes, just that they would have to spend some of their own money.

2. This is a mother we are talking about. Maybe I come from a different background than others posting here, but in my family, that means something. My mother certainly has made sacrafices along the way in raising me, so I can make a reasonable financial sacrafice if necessary to bury her the way she wants with a funeral mass (which doesn't even really have to add much to the cost, as many of us have repeatedly pointed out). Again, maybe that's just the way my family functions, maybe family is more important to us that way than it is to you, but I sure am glad it is!

No, I don't think so. But, my Mom funeral is costing $20,000 to follow all of her wishes. And no, I couldn't follow her wishes if she had not prepaid for it.

 

[blondietink]

$20,000 for a funeral? That's outrageous in MHO.

Both of DH's elderly parents died within 90 days of each other. Very Catholic. Between the funeral home costs for 2 days, casket, Catholic priest that charged us for both funerals, transportation, opening and closing the crypt or whatever they call it, flowers, etc., the entire cost was close to $6,500 each. They had already purchased the mosoleum (sp?) space before they died. Only imeediate family attended, so the church was empty both times.

My DM died right in between the other two. She was a Baptist and had her funerall al planned out. No funeral home calling hours. Memorial service at her church, church minister gave a 1/2 hour service (her orders: "I want it short!") with a luncheon in the church basement. Organist. Flowers. Headstone and urn. Buriel plot had been given to my DF years ago. Cost $3,000 total give or take $100.00.

Whatever the daughter wants should go, but $20.000? No way!

 

[crisi]

The average funeral is $7-10k. And it isn't hard to add another $2k in flowers without blinking. Need musicians at the church, that's more money. Prayer cards, obituaries. Need to cater a lunch? Obits are paid by line and get to be a few hundred really fast.

http://funeral-tips.com/funeral-costs-how-much-does-an-average-funeral-cost/
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cheap/20031118a1.asp

That's why I said earlier that a funeral is a lot like a wedding. You can do either one for not too much money (I think getting death certificates and cremation done costs around $600 minimum - but for a wedding you need a license and an officiant to sign it - I think that's less than $100 in most states) - but in either case, its easy to spend a lot of money. With funerals, there is often a lot of guilt and the feeling that "mom would have wanted." And that's why its probably important to 1) pre-plan and PRE-PAY your funeral if what you end up with is important to you and 2) if you are dealing with older or ill relatives without much money, discuss with your spouse what you are willing to do before you are looking at $3000 caskets, $2000 headstones, $400 casket sprays of roses and plots overlooking the lake the day after the mother in law you never really liked but always bit your tongue around the darling boy you married dies.