Cruise for Middle Schooler

I don't understand these types of trips for Scouts. We were always supposed to have some sort of educational or enrichment 'angle' to go somewhere. I don't see how a 3-day Mexican cruise cuts it; you can't get very far into Mexico and back in 3 days.

And at 12? I didn't even realize GS could travel out of the country at that age per their safety rules.

May I ask why you need to put up $100? That's the other thing...when I was a leader we were told trips and activities needed to be paid for by fundraising the GIRLS did, and we were not supposed to keep coming to the parents to pay for things.

I don't get it.

That is not true-- our troop goes to great wolf lodge every year and nothing education there LOL...and as far as paying-we don't fundraise much- just some nuts (just got our "profit" check from that- 32.00) and cookies (we made 150.00 profit fromthat last year) so if we only took a 182.00 trip form the fundraising we would be going to the movies and getting popcorn LOL. It runs me about 500 a year for my daughter to be in girl scouts between dues and day trips and overnight trips...some years more some years less. This year we are looking to go for 4 days to a dude ranch so it ill run to the "more" side!
 
Per Safety Wise, the GSUSA rule book, scouts must be 14 years old to travel internationally. A 13-year old can plan for a trip, fundraise for a trip, but she must be 14 years old by the time the trip leaves. Safety Wise also emphasizes the importance of "progression" with scout troops -- that younger girls plan day trips, older girls plan trips within state, and only the high school-aged scouts are allowed to consider out-of-the-country trips. With 12 year olds included, this trip will not be approved by council. Some troops get around this by saying that it's just a "friends trip", but that is skirting the rules and could get them into trouble -- and they won't be covered by their scout insurance. Last thought on that subject: If your leader is breaking this rule, I'd want to know if she has all her scout leader training completed.

Safety Wise does not address the issue of girls and leader sharing rooms/tents, though some individual councils have added such rules. Personally, I think that's rather foolish because sharing a room is a good idea when kids are Brownies, and a "sometimes" thing for older scouts. Last night I supervised a scout overnight. We had one huge room (a scout hut) for everyone; if scouts and leaders couldn't sleep in the same room, then the overnight couldn't have happened. Furthermore, some kids are comfortable sleeping with friends, others are more nervous away from home -- my oldest wouldn't care a bit, my youngest likes to know that an adult is nearby.

Scout trips are not required to be educational. Troops take trips for all sorts of reasons: Sometimes they're about community service, sometimes they're educational, sometimes they're just for fun. What scouting emphasizes more than the educational component is the idea that the girls plan the trip themselves; that is, that they set the goal, raise the money, make the plans and see them through.

Would they be safe on Carnival? I've not sailed Carnival myself, but I've sailed several other cruise lines. They are very safe for kids in pairs during the day -- provided they understand the iron-clad rule that they must never, ever enter another person's cabin. After dark, I would make stringent rules about the whole group staying together. It's after dark when trouble happens for kids on cruise ships -- that's when older teens will come up with ideas like taking walks into dark areas or perhaps coming up with alcohol. But during the day, I wouldn't be worried about them being on the ship in pairs.

Would they be safe in Mexico? You have to realize that cruises only stop in ports for 8 hours or so. Cruisers don't go into the heart of the country, they don't see the real 3-world countries or islands. If they stay by the port, they're going to see beaches and touristy shops that aren't all that different from Myrtle Beach. Could they find drugs? Probably, if they sought them out, which I'm sure their leaders wouldn't allow, but people aren't likely to press drugs on 12-year olds. And we don't know whether the group plans to get off the ship at ports or not. If they were going to get off the ship and take part in an excursion, I'd have no problem with that -- for a slightly older teen.
 
I have been a GS leader. I would only let my child go if I were going, but I would also not want to be responsible for any other children on a cruise to Mexico. My children have been on cruises as well... This trip actually seems absurd to me at this age for a GS trip. I am one for traveling, have done quite a bit myself, but there is no way in heck I would take on that responsibility for an out of the country cruise..No way, no how!!
 
I have an odd question - coming from a former GS leader.

If the OP is the daughter's leader...this doesn't sound like this is a troop activity. Who is arranging the trip? The council?

If it was the council arranging the trip- I might feel differently.

However, if this trip wasn't endorsed by the council...there is NO way I would let my daughter go. (Or should I say - since this isn't your troop arranging the trip - and if it wasn't the council arranging the trip..then HECK NO would be my answer.)

Been awhile since I read safety wise...I believe that some of the PP's have very specifically stated that adults cannot be in the same sleeping space as the Girl Scouts and I would agree.
 

I have an odd question - coming from a former GS leader.

If the OP is the daughter's leader...this doesn't sound like this is a troop activity. Who is arranging the trip? The council?

If it was the council arranging the trip- I might feel differently.

However, if this trip wasn't endorsed by the council...there is NO way I would let my daughter go. (Or should I say - since this isn't your troop arranging the trip - and if it wasn't the council arranging the trip..then HECK NO would be my answer.)

Been awhile since I read safety wise...I believe that some of the PP's have very specifically stated that adults cannot be in the same sleeping space as the Girl Scouts and I would agree.

I think you just need to have 2 female adults when in the same room as the girls. There is no way I am letting my daisies camp without adults in the room.

I would go get my safety wise but its out in the car and its cold.

The only time we have had an adult sleep in a seperate area is if its a dad.
 
I would let my 12-year-old DD go on a trip out of the country without me IF I knew & trusted the other adults who would be with her and felt that the destination was safe. I went on a 10-day trip to the British Isles when I was 13, as part of an educational tour group arranged by one of my teachers, & neither of my parents went with me. It was not my first time flying but it was my first time going out of the country. The majority of the kids did have a parent with them, but all the kids had strict rules to follow & there weren't any problems with kids trying to go off alone or breaking rules (that I can remember).

That said, OP it does not sound like you're comfortable with the supervision so I'd go with your gut. If I didn't think my child would be appropriately supervised anywhere I wouldn't let her go.
 
I'm an adult and I wouldn't go to Mexico right now! I mean really, what is the purpose of the trip? I would quetion if the troop leader wanted an excuese for a little getaway.
 
How old was the girl who was raped by a Carnival employee?
 
How old was the girl who was raped by a Carnival employee?

and who was that girl traveling with? iirc it was her parents. Not really sure what your point is here. I mean, watch the news right now - 9 year old girl dead after being shot at political gathering in Arizona. You can't control everything and you can't protect your kids from the "unknown".

Make the best decision you can with the information you have. If you trust the adults (and trust her to follow rules set by you and/or the adults on the trip), let her go, if you don't, then she shouldn't go. My Girl Scouts would not break the basic "buddy" rule because they understood the purpose of the rule (and they knew they would become my buddy if I found out).

Now I did come across 2 of my girls one evening on the cruise - they were disagreeing because each wanted to go somewhere different - I settled it for them and had them both go with me! I was happy to see that they didn't just split up, hoping no one would notice - making them come with me made them compromise a bit more the next time they disagreed about what they wanted to do.
 
There is no way I would let my child go? Have you ever chaperoned an overnight trip before? If so you know that most the parents are less responsible then the kids, and then you always have the one kid who has not been brought up to respect the rules that can get everyone in trouble. 12 is way to young why do we feel the need to rush are kids?:confused3

Would you feel the same way towards a land-based trip? Our middle school (and thousands of others) has overnight trips for band and choir, with only a handful of chaperones. The trips are mandatory (if they don't go, their grade is affected). The kids have a great time, and those who don't follow the rules are disciplined.
 
Been awhile since I read safety wise...I believe that some of the PP's have very specifically stated that adults cannot be in the same sleeping space as the Girl Scouts and I would agree.[/QUOTE]

Nope, pull out that book and check. You'll find that National makes no such rule through Safety Wise. Some individual councils make suchbrequirements.
 
How old was the girl who was raped by a Carnival employee?
Things like that DO happen, but they happen when kids are allowed to run around in places where they shouldn't be . . . Alone . . . Or after dark . . . Or in strangers' cabins. Cruise ships are actually quite safe IF the kids are given some safety rules about where they should and shouldn't be.

And that still doesn't address the fact that peer GSUSA rules, scouts cannot travel internationally until age 14. 14 is a whole lot older and more responsible than 12.
 
Would you feel the same way towards a land-based trip? Our middle school (and thousands of others) has overnight trips for band and choir, with only a handful of chaperones. The trips are mandatory (if they don't go, their grade is affected). The kids have a great time, and those who don't follow the rules are disciplined.

Is this a public school? I have a hard time understanding how a public school would force a child to go away over night and have it affect their grades? Who is paying for all of these required overnighters? If the family pays what if they can't afford it? :confused3
 
Things like that DO happen, but they happen when kids are allowed to run around in places where they shouldn't be . . . Alone . . . Or after dark . . . Or in strangers' cabins. Cruise ships are actually quite safe IF the kids are given some safety rules about where they should and shouldn't be.

And that still doesn't address the fact that peer GSUSA rules, scouts cannot travel internationally until age 14. 14 is a whole lot older and more responsible than 12.

I am not familiar with the girl scout organization, but does this mean that OP daughter's trip is not approved or allowed by the girl scouts?
 
I am not familiar with the girl scout organization, but does this mean that OP daughter's trip is not approved or allowed by the girl scouts?
Yes, that's absolutely what it means. A couple possibilities exist:

1. The trip is being planned for a couple years from now (to allow fundraising), and the 12-year olds included will all have turned 14 by then. I was involved in two international trips when I was a scout, and this did happen then. Each time we had two years' planning time. A couple girls were "too young" when we started planning and fundraising, BUT they knew they'd be old enough by the time the departure day rolled around. If this is the case, then it's perfectly legal.

2. This isn't an official scout trip; rather, several leaders are putting it together as a "friends trip" and it isn't going through their local council for approval. If this is true, then IF anything goes wrong, the leaders are putting themselves in a very, very bad position.

But a 12-year old traveling internationally as a part of a scout group is flat-out a no-no per GSUSA rules.
 
But a 12-year old traveling internationally as a part of a scout group is flat-out a no-no per GSUSA rules.

I guess I only know what my GS council allows (which should be in line with GS USA), but my girls are currently 13 and we went on a cruise to the Bahamas in August 2010 (and a cruise in August 2008 to Cozumel Mexico). Girl Scout "Destinations" through Studio 2B has many international trips open to girls starting at age 13 (although some trips require minimum of 14 or 15).

I know our council has a 10 day trip to England most years, and that is open to girls 12 and older.

From our council website "Girl Scout destinations, which are sponsored by local Girl Scout councils, Girl Guide associations from other countries and Girl Scouts of the USA, give girls 11-17 a chance to be part of the international community of girls. You'll gather together to have fun, build memories and test your skills and talents. Events are open to any registered Girl Scout who is age 11 through 17 or a graduating high school senior."
 
Our council recently switched from the 2 leaders in a room rule to no leaders in a room with the girls. I am not sure how we would swing a cruise, since we would need more than one room for girls and leaders couldn't be in adjoining cabins to all.

My DDs are 10 & 11 and they will bridge to Cadets in the Spring. There is no way I would allow them to go on this trip without me, and there is no way as a leader I would feel comfortable being able to keep the other girls safe in that environment, either. If this was a Council-Sponsored event (or GSUSA), I might be more supportive. If every child had a parent with her, I would also feel comfortable. But I would definitely not take responsibility for the children of others without Council approval (aka GS insurance).
 
Would you feel the same way towards a land-based trip? Our middle school (and thousands of others) has overnight trips for band and choir, with only a handful of chaperones. The trips are mandatory (if they don't go, their grade is affected). The kids have a great time, and those who don't follow the rules are disciplined.

Next year my 11 year old 7th grade daughter will be going on a school trip- 2 nights...they do not allow parent chaperones- the kids sleep 4 in a room and the teachers sleep in their own rooms. The kids that don't go have to do reports and other things to make up for what they missed on the trip but it doesn't effect their grades.
The parents pay for the trips, we have already been informed what it will cost and they do not fundraise-its a couple hundred dollars and if you don't have the money the kids just stay back in school for the time. They also don't let the kids that are failing any subject or the ones that are behavior problems go. If the child has been suspended in the previous year they will not be going on the trip.
 
I guess I only know what my GS council allows (which should be in line with GS USA), but my girls are currently 13 and we went on a cruise to the Bahamas in August 2010 (and a cruise in August 2008 to Cozumel Mexico). Girl Scout "Destinations" through Studio 2B has many international trips open to girls starting at age 13 (although some trips require minimum of 14 or 15).

I know our council has a 10 day trip to England most years, and that is open to girls 12 and older.

From our council website "Girl Scout destinations, which are sponsored by local Girl Scout councils, Girl Guide associations from other countries and Girl Scouts of the USA, give girls 11-17 a chance to be part of the international community of girls. You'll gather together to have fun, build memories and test your skills and talents. Events are open to any registered Girl Scout who is age 11 through 17 or a graduating high school senior."
Here's the GSUSA page about Destinations -- note that the second paragraph states it's for 14-17: http://www.girlscouts.org/who_we_are/global/travel.asp

I do wonder if your council isn't accepting 12-year olds, knowing that they have two years prep time for fundraising and group bonding before the trip actually departs. I hope they're not ignoring SafetyWise.
 












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