Crowd Outlook

There certainly is a tipping point, but who knows when we will reach it. I think for high-end experiences peopel are willing to pay anything.

Yeah, with restaurants, a lot of places have gotten so expensive for what you get. Even fast food is high, but there can still be a value proposition there. I tend to like fast-casual type places that are a bit chaper than the sit-down chains, but honestly typically have better food. I mean, it's not like Outback was ever spectacular or anything.
wife and i went to a salsarita's awhile back, 2 burittos, chips and salsa, with drinks. Near $40, plus they wanted a tip.

we actually could have gone to the local mexican place and it would have been cheaper.
 
it'll be interesting to see how long keep paying the inflated prices.

im starting to read things about people avoiding mid level chains like Outback and Olive Garden because they're so expensive now. people are going to fast food, or higher level places, and skipping out on the mid tier places.

i know we are, we used to eat out 2 or 3 times during a week, now its once, and only on the weekends. its really expensive for all 4 of us.
i think there is a better chance that pricing levels off, i doubt it will ever drop. Salaries will eventually catch up and the cycle will start all over again
 

Because this is a Disney-centric discussion board.

One thing I did notice about the WSJ article is that it mostly focuses on high-end options within each category. Taylor Swift concerts are not at all representative of a "typical" concert. The San Diego Zoo is not "just a zoo" despite its non-profit status. That place is huge and incredibly impressive. It's easily the best zoo I've ever been to.
I was referring to the business media and even general media headlines about the recent Disney increase, not this site which is a completely different zoo animal. LOL

I had no idea that the SD zoo was something much better than average, good to know!

The bottom line of all this is that entertainment is expensive is Disney is not at all out of the norm (but you would never know that if your info just came from the recent articles).
 
I was referring to the business media and even general media headlines about the recent Disney increase, not this site which is a completely different zoo animal. LOL

I had no idea that the SD zoo was something much better than average, good to know!

The bottom line of all this is that entertainment is expensive is Disney is not at all out of the norm (but you would never know that if your info just came from the recent articles).
they are the Big Fish with a target on their back, it's a pretty standard reaction when prices go up the name everyone is familiar with gets the most attention that way they can maximize clicks, views, ect.
 
was referring to the business media and even general media headlines about the recent Disney increase,
I see "entertainment is expensive" news pieces all. the. time. Heck, the world practically melted down over the Eras Tour.

Just the other day I was reading a piece on the Ikon/EPIC takeover of most all ski areas in the US, and its impact on pricing.
 
I see "entertainment is expensive" news pieces all. the. time. Heck, the world practically melted down over the Eras Tour.

Just the other day I was reading a piece on the Ikon/EPIC takeover of most all ski areas in the US, and its impact on pricing.
omg... I used to love to ski, used to always hold a season pass when the kids were younger (Berkshire East)..., then my crappy ankle-foot arthritis got too bad and I could not ski enough runs to justify the ticket price... i shudder to think how much it is now as I have not skied in at least 6 years...
 
My local ski "hill" (with all of 230' vertical) is an Epic resort. North of $500 for the season pass to just that hill. Single day is $70 weekday/$94 weekend, in advance.
 
I’ve seen a few “concerts are expensive now” articles, Disney is an easy target though.
 
My local ski "hill" (with all of 230' vertical) is an Epic resort. North of $500 for the season pass to just that hill. Single day is $70 weekday/$94 weekend, in advance.
yup... similar, had to check.

weekday-$69... weekend $99

Pass is $699

but it does have 1100 vertical feet for skiing (total hill is 1700). Charlemont, Ma. We are also only a few hours from some decent areas in Vermont and New Hampshire, so no complaints about the quality, really just sour grapes as it is pricy and I cannot enjoy it like I used to.
 
i think there is a better chance that pricing levels off, i doubt it will ever drop. Salaries will eventually catch up and the cycle will start all over again
wouldnt be shocked to see a group of chain restaurants go out of business, and be replaced by new chains.

its happened before in American History. think Chi Chis and Kenny Rogers Chicken.
 
Were you able to get around the paywall? If so, could u post the entire article.
At $40,000, Luxury Disney World Vacations Drain Wallets of Die-Hards
Higher prices and growing complexity dim the Magic Kingdom’s allure





By Anna Jean Kaiser and Guillermo Molero

October 26, 2023 at 5:30 AM EDT


Walt Disney Co. raked in record theme-park revenue last year, boosted by a strategy that puts a price tag on everything from dinner with Cinderella and lightsaber workshops to skipping the line to join the Guardians of the Galaxy.

That tactic is now being challenged, as the era of free-spending revenge travel fades away and inflation pinches the pocketbooks of US families.

After a blowout 2022 driven by pent-up demand, visits to Florida’s Disney World are down as much as 15% this year, according to one analysis. As the House of Mouse pushes up against the limits of what vacationers are willing to pay, travel planners say families are often cutting trips short to cope with peak-season ticket prices that have almost doubled over the past decade.

Related: Eleven Un-Magical Secrets I Learned While Working at Disney World

On top of the surging admission prices, vacationers are balking at a system that’s become so complex that the bewildered turn to a parallel economy of planning blogs, social media accounts and message boards, as well as Disney-affiliated travel agents, to help navigate it all.

Myriad add-ons that are now a standard part of most visits — Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique princess makeovers or passes that let antsy kids skip lines — have boosted the cost for a typical, week-long trip for a family of four by $5,000 to $25,000, or as much as $40,000 for a top-end experience, according to travel agents.

Luxe Disney Vacation Can Cost Over $40K
With all the frills, a six-night Disney resort stay, including a VIP tour to skip all lines, could cost 10 times more than a budget vacation

Source: Bloomberg research, Walt Disney Co.

Note: Budget is for 2 adults, 2 children. High-end prices are for peak-season Christmas week. Low-end are for August low-season. Skip-the-line prices are averages of Disney's dynamic pricing. High-end Genie+ and Lightning Lane passes are for five days. Sixth day VIP tour includes line-skipping. *Park hopper plus includes access to all theme and water parks, plus one add-on experience

All told, Disney officials have indicated that visitors spend 40% more per day in US parks than they did pre-pandemic. The company's operating income from parks and experiences fell 13% last quarter, but was still 24% above where it was in 2019.

“Disney has done a lot to increase pricing and per-cap spending,” helping to blunt the effects of lower attendance, said Laura Martin, a media analyst at Needham & Co. who rates Disney stock a hold. “It’s a premium product, and it’s basically for rich people.”

Read more: The New Disney World Hacks—How to Skip Lines and Meet Mickey

While Disney doesn’t share specific numbers on park attendance, executives acknowledged on the most recent earnings call that the Florida resorts — which also include Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios and Epcot — were underperforming due to lower attendance and higher operating costs.



Walt Disney Co Reports Quarterly Earnings Amid Ongoing Feud With Florida Gov. DeSantis



But that’s not stopping Disney from betting big on parks. The company said last month that it’s going to double investments to $60 billion over the next 10 years.

Disney acknowledges the complexity issue, and says it’s trying to tackle it.

“Everyone vacations differently, so we offer a wide range of options, including ways to save and find great value, all while continuing to roll out updates that make planning simpler and easier,” Avery Maehrer, Disney World’s communications director, said in an email.

And Disney isn’t the only park operator feeling the downturn in leisure spending. Comcast Corp. reported lower attendance at Universal Orlando this year and SeaWorld Entertainment Inc., which operates a site in Orlando, said that visits to its 12 parks were down 2% compared to last year.

But the situation at Disney World — far and away Disney’s most visited resort — comes during a difficult stretch for the company as Chief Executive Officer Bob Iger tries to reverse a slump in its movie business, losses in its streaming operations and struggles at its TV division. The stock has declined 60% since reaching a record high in March 2021.


In Florida, the company has been feuding with Governor Ron DeSantis over his school policies, and other conservatives have called for boycotting Disney. While there’s no evidence the tension has had any impact on park attendance, it adds to the pressures on Disney’s Florida business.

Disney Parks, Cruises Account for Nearly 30% of Revenue
2022 revenue sources for Walt Disney Co.

Source: Company filings

Note: Segment figures do not add due to $2B reduction from content license early terminations and elimination of intrasegment revenue

Entrance to the flagship Magic Kingdom costs as much as $189, and accessing all four of Disney World’s Orlando parks in a single day reaches $252, about as much as a lift ticket at premier ski resorts like Aspen and Vail and in line with prices for parks run by Universal and SeaWorld.

That pricing is fairly straightforward. What’s now grating on travelers is the dizzying array of add-ons that Disney offers. That includes various skip-the-line passes with dynamic pricing, which Disney says about half of park-goers purchase, up to the top-of-the-line VIP tour, where a private guide escorts visitors to the front of lines and into exclusive areas at a cost of as much as $6,300 a day.

Other options include princess makeovers that go for as much as $230, build-your-own Star Wars lightsaber workshops for $250, dinners at Cinderella’s Royal Table for $79 a pop (excluding drinks) and an electronic wristband that stores tickets and unlocks hotel rooms, a convenience that costs as much as $46.

How Much Time Does the Lightning Lane Save?
Minutes saved using skip-the-line passes for five Magic Kingdom rides on a busy day

Source: Touringplans.com

Note: Wait data is from Easter week, Tuesday, April 4, 2023. Assumes three rides reserved on Genie+ and the maximum two Lightning Lane purchases for four people. Assumes 7-minute wait in each Lightning Lane. Cost range reflects the dynamic pricing structure for Lightning Lane and posted $35 Genie+ pass price on April 4.

“The parks have become much more expensive with complexities,” said Len Testa, who runs the website Touring Plans, which harvested ride data to estimate that attendance is down by 15% this year. “The average guest is spending more, and cutting back the length of stay.”

Parents who thought simply buying an admissions ticket would guarantee them an easy day of fun with their kids may find themselves losing hours without those skip-the-line passes or find their kids disappointed they didn’t get to dine with Chef Mickey.


“Not only is it confusing,” said Quincy Stanford, who writes for Disney vacation planning website AllEars.Net. But “now a lot of the things you’re confused about cost money.”

Some vacationers choose Disney Cruise Lines as an alternative, and even California’s Disneyland is considered much easier to handle.

It’s “a cakewalk in comparison,” said Abby Finkel, a Disney travel planner with Wave of a Wand Travel. She recommends clients take a trip out west if they’re too stressed by Disney World.

But even with the hurdles, Disney’s most loyal fans will do what it takes to make it to the Magic Kingdom, including taking on debt.

Eli Trowbridge, a 44-year-old father who works at a food distribution company in northwest Indiana, saved up for two years for his family’s Disney World vacation in 2019. As the trip approached, he realized his savings weren’t enough for the Disney experience of his dreams. So he borrowed an additional $5,000 from his 401(k) to pay for the trip for him, his wife, their four kids and his mother-in-law.

Trowbridge estimates that the experience set his family back $15,000 to $17,000. He knows that seems excessive to a lot of folks.

“Is it something that you value and is it worth it?”
he said. “For some people it’s not. For us, it was.”

— With assistance by Dave Merrill and Felipe Marques
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...visits-decline-as-expenses-overwhelm-visitors

According to that article WDW is down 15% this year so far.

"Len Testa, who runs the website Touring Plans, which harvested ride data to estimate that attendance is down by 15% this year. “The average guest is spending more, and cutting back the length of stay.”
I’l be honest, we just got back from a 3 day trip. We had a blast.

i looked at booking for a full week next year. The price is out of control. We’ve done week long vacations at Disney for 15 years.

If we go next year, we’re cutting back to a half week. It’s just too expensive for us to justify for now.
 
I’l be honest, we just got back from a 3 day trip. We had a blast.

i looked at booking for a full week next year. The price is out of control. We’ve done week long vacations at Disney for 15 years.

If we go next year, we’re cutting back to a half week. It’s just too expensive for us to justify for now.
Obviously, those of us who frequent these boards are Disney fanatics, love all things Disney, and study how to best to enjoy the company's products. If prices/complexity are discouraging DIS fanatics, it is logical to assume that ordinary guests/customers are also discouraged.
 
Obviously, those of us who frequent these boards are Disney fanatics, love all things Disney, and study how to best to enjoy the company's products. If prices/complexity are discouraging DIS fanatics, it is logical to assume that ordinary guests/customers are also discouraged.
These trips are really complex also; and if you aren’t on these message boards or watching YouTube videos on how to navigate the parks, you’re going to be upset because you’re going to miss out on things.

We talked to a lady on the bus back from EPCOT on our last day, she was telling us that she hadn’t been Disney in 5 years, but prior to that; they used to come yearly. so she felt like she was experienced.

She was frustrated with the amount of planning, and frustrated that she missed out on the virtual queues. She mentioned that she was excited to be back and was looking forward to coming back yearly, but after their experience this time; they weren’t coming back next year.

it had been a year and a half since we went, it took me a full day to get my Disney legs back and really understand how things work also. I mean i spent 20 minutes in line for spaceship earth refreshing a lighting lane until i got what i needed, because it was overlapping with virtual queue. There is way too much time being spent with your face in the phone.

they’ve got to make the planning and experience easier.

I’ll be honest, id rather hit it really hard for 4 days and do everything we want, instead of taking our time over an 8 day period now. It’s just too much money.
 
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"The parks have become much more expensive with complexities,” said Len Testa, who runs the website Touring Plans, which harvested ride data to estimate that attendance is down by 15% this year. “The average guest is spending more, and cutting back the length of stay.”

IMO the attendance being down 15% IMO is the biggest takeaway from that article. WDW hasn't been down that much since 9/11.
 











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