Crowd Outlook

[Smugpugmug]

Yeah I criticize Disney's wasted space in their parks all the time and it's just as bad at Universal Orlando. There is a theater in Toon Lagoon that has been abandoned since I started going to the parks back in 2011-12. The Fear Factor stage is abandoned and had plans to add a Harry Potter ride that was canceled. Lost Continent needs to be rethemed to the Legend of Zelda like, yesterday.

I have APs for both Disney and Universal and honestly Universal's AP has better perks.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yeah I criticize Disney's wasted space in their parks all the time and it's just as bad at Universal Orlando. There is a theater in Toon Lagoon that has been abandoned since I started going to the parks back in 2011-12. The Fear Factor stage is abandoned and had plans to add a Harry Potter ride that was canceled. Lost Continent needs to be rethemed to the Legend of Zelda like, yesterday.

I have APs for both Disney and Universal and honestly Universal's AP has better perks.

Typically better perks would note that it is inferior or at least behind its competition. they have to offer better perks to draw in more customers

 

[Smugpugmug]

Typically better perks would note that it is inferior or at least behind its competition. they have to offer better perks to draw in more customers

I don't think Universal is inferior to Disney. I go to both and they both do things that are good and bad. Universal is the way more chill experience right now but YMMV obviously.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Just a theory on my end, but I have felt like Disney thought they were close to hitting their annual capacity back in 15'-16'. They then added onto the parks to try and thin out crowds because of the cramming issue they were having. That only drew more guests to the parks which caused even more problems. Couple that with millennials learning how to game the system, and a new style of guests who do not have children but go anyway for the nostalgia and Disney had to raise prices and strip perks to try and make a more enjoyable experience for the people in the parks, and thin out the hoards of tourists coming in. Again just a theory

 

[RivShore]

IMO if Disney wasn't around Universal would not be all that viable to tourists, they would probably be viable because of locals, (much like 6 Flags) but i don't think they have enough of a draw to have people stay there for an entire week much like a Disney Land isn't much of a tourist destination. I think EU will be a nice addition, but still doesn't move the needle much IMO

That is a really good point that I had never thought of and I don't think can be honestly disputed - without Universal, WDW Resort is still a major tourist destination; without WDW, Universal is much more like a major regional park that would attract locals and maybe a few day trippers from the nearby beach resorts. I have said many times here that they are very different (in terms of size, offerings, lodgings, restaurants, immersion, demographic targets, etc), that they really should not be considered direct competitors.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I don't think Universal is inferior to Disney. I go to both and they both do things that are good and bad. Universal is the way more chill experience right now but YMMV obviously.

i am more speaking in generalities to the casual guest. I think most 1st time guests are picking WDW over Uni

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

That is a really good point that I had never thought of and I don't think can be honestly disputed - without Universal, WDW Resort is still a major tourist destination; without WDW, Universal is much more like a major regional park that would attract locals and maybe a few day trippers from the nearby beach resorts. I have said many times here that they are very different (in terms of size, offerings, lodgings, restaurants, immersion, demographic targets, etc), that they really should not be considered direct competitors.

Exactly, i think there's a reason Uni dropped its parks where Disney was already successful. i suppose it can be argued that with the other smaller area parks you could make Central Florida a tourist destination without Disney, but no one park alone is enough of a draw IMO

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Plus a universal AP should cost less than Disney ones simply because there are only 2 parks 3 if you count the water park vs 4 major ones at Disney.

The lost continent section is so bad , it needs something badly since on that side of the park forced to walk through it.

Sorry, I have to chuckle. Universal is delivering on major redevelopment.

I spent a good chunk of yesterday looking over WDW menus, and struggled to find even one menu item that looked appealing. The options in MK especially are just sad. Food we got from multiple MK eateries this year was inedible. Not just the quick serves, but the palace! Cindy's food was horrible and insanely overpriced.

Crystal Palace for lunch/dinner now costs $60 per person. That's nuts. They actually expect people to pay $300 for lunch?

While there are menu duds at Universal, we've had some really excellent food property wide. The quick serve food we had from Thunder Falls Terrace, for example, was considerably better than the food at Cindy's.

This thread is about WDW's crowd outlook. If WDW wants people to return, they have a good deal of work to do. Paying $90 for inedible food is unacceptable.

 

[RivShore]

Just a theory on my end, but I have felt like Disney thought they were close to hitting their annual capacity back in 15'-16'. They then added onto the parks to try and thin out crowds because of the cramming issue they were having. That only drew more guests to the parks which caused even more problems. Couple that with millennials learning how to game the system, and a new style of guests who do not have children but go anyway for the nostalgia and Disney had to raise prices and strip perks to try and make a more enjoyable experience for the people in the parks, and thin out the hoards of tourists coming in. Again just a theory

I've said similar things and been told all the changes were due to corporate greed and only corporate creed. So good luck. LOL

 

[Smugpugmug]

Sorry, I have to chuckle. Universal is delivering on major redevelopment.

I spent a good chunk of yesterday looking over WDW menus, and struggled to find even one menu item that looked appealing. The options in MK especially are just sad. Food we got from multiple MK eateries this year was inedible. Not just the quick serves, but the palace! Cindy's food was horrible and insanely overpriced.

Crystal Palace for lunch/dinner now costs $60 per person. That's nuts. They actually expect people to pay $300 for lunch?

While there are menu duds at Universal, we've had some really excellent food property wide. The quick serve food we had from Thunder Falls Terrace, for example, was considerably better than the food at Cindy's.

This thread is about WDW's crowd outlook. If WDW wants people to return, they have a good deal of work to do. Paying $90 for inedible food is unacceptable.

Food at MK has been bad since I started going to WDW back in the 2000s (and maybe before that but can't confirm). It's the one park where I leave to eat somewhere on the monorail loop and then come back.

I've honestly had a better meal at Margaritaville at City Walk than at table service MK restaurants.

 

[RivShore]

Sorry, I have to chuckle. Universal is delivering on major redevelopment.

I spent a good chunk of yesterday looking over WDW menus, and struggled to find even one menu item that looked appealing. The options in MK especially are just sad. Food we got from multiple MK eateries this year was inedible. Not just the quick serves, but the palace! Cindy's food was horrible and insanely overpriced.

Crystal Palace for lunch/dinner now costs $60 per person. That's nuts. They actually expect people to pay $300 for lunch?

While there are menu duds at Universal, we've had some really excellent food property wide. The quick serve food we had from Thunder Falls Terrace, for example, was considerably better than the food at Cindy's.

This thread is about WDW's crowd outlook. If WDW wants people to return, they have a good deal of work to do. Paying $90 for inedible food is unacceptable.

Yes, MK food has never been more than decent, though in my dozens of visits, I never ran into anything inedible and we never do sit down there. That being said, the food in the other parks are much more varied and better and many of the hotel QS and TS are good to great.

 

[Brian Noble]

Universal's AP has better perks.

Not all of the levels do, but the top-tier one is really great. I love the valet parking in particular.

Typically better perks would note that it is inferior or at least behind its competition. they have to offer better perks to draw in more customers

"Disney is too expensive and doesn't deliver value."
"Universal is so inferior that they have to give better perks."

I think you only get to pick one of these, unless you just don't like fun. (I happen to think neither is true, but I also apparently have a low this-is-fun bar.)

Food at MK has been bad since I started going to WDW back in the 2000s (and maybe before that but can't confirm). It's the one park where I leave to eat somewhere on the monorail loop and then come back.

The hummus sandwich at Columbia was pretty good, but it has been on again/off again (and currently off). I'm not normally a vegetarian-entree kind of guy, but I ordered that just about every trip. I'll also note that a few casual TS locations are only a monorail ride away. The Wave used to be my go-to, but I'm not jazzed by the steakhouse.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Not all of the levels do, but the top-tier one is really great. I love the valet parking in particular.


"Disney is too expensive and doesn't deliver value."
"Universal is so inferior that they have to give better perks."

I think you only get to pick one of these, unless you just don't like fun. (I happen to think neither is true, but I also apparently have a low this-is-fun bar.)


The hummus sandwich at Columbia was pretty good, but it has been on again/off again (and currently off). I'm not normally a vegetarian-entree kind of guy, but I ordered that just about every trip. I'll also note that a few casual TS locations are only a monorail ride away. The Wave used to be my go-to, but I'm not jazzed by the steakhouse.

Yeah I have the top tier annual pass and the value has been immense for me. I love free preferred parking, Express after 4pm and I plan on using the free HHN ticket.

Columbia Harbor House is the least bad of MK quick service but that isn't saying anything. In terms of worst hands down no questions asked that goes to Pinocchio Village Haus.

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

Sorry, I have to chuckle. Universal is delivering on major redevelopment.

I spent a good chunk of yesterday looking over WDW menus, and struggled to find even one menu item that looked appealing. The options in MK especially are just sad. Food we got from multiple MK eateries this year was inedible. Not just the quick serves, but the palace! Cindy's food was horrible and insanely overpriced.

Crystal Palace for lunch/dinner now costs $60 per person. That's nuts. They actually expect people to pay $300 for lunch?

While there are menu duds at Universal, we've had some really excellent food property wide. The quick serve food we had from Thunder Falls Terrace, for example, was considerably better than the food at Cindy's.

This thread is about WDW's crowd outlook. If WDW wants people to return, they have a good deal of work to do. Paying $90 for inedible food is unacceptable.

We are the opposite we like Disney park food overall better, especially quick service, Universal we have some favs but overall not as many.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Sorry, I have to chuckle. Universal is delivering on major redevelopment.

I spent a good chunk of yesterday looking over WDW menus, and struggled to find even one menu item that looked appealing. The options in MK especially are just sad. Food we got from multiple MK eateries this year was inedible. Not just the quick serves, but the palace! Cindy's food was horrible and insanely overpriced.

Crystal Palace for lunch/dinner now costs $60 per person. That's nuts. They actually expect people to pay $300 for lunch?

While there are menu duds at Universal, we've had some really excellent food property wide. The quick serve food we had from Thunder Falls Terrace, for example, was considerably better than the food at Cindy's.

This thread is about WDW's crowd outlook. If WDW wants people to return, they have a good deal of work to do. Paying $90 for inedible food is unacceptable.

in terms of affecting crowds, food is not a driving factor for Disney. People with small children especially just need something to eat. i would argue that the character interactions justify the price since the restaurants you mention are typically if not always booked solid. I have never heard anyone say they are going to WDW or Uni for the food, and have never heard the food ruined someone's trip baring food poisoning.

 

[BrianL]

We are the opposite we like Disney park food overall better, especially quick service, Universal we have some favs but overall not as many.

I was very disappointed in the Universal food on my most recent trip. I don't get there often, but the previous time I went I ate at Mythos and thought it was spectacular! I went there again more recently and it was really not that great. It's too bad.

 

[tom1944]

The easiest way to see the difference between Disney Parks and Universal's is to look for a Universal-centric discussion board even remotely the size of DIS. And the DIS is not the only large-scale Disney discussion board.

But in my experience as a theme park guest, Universal's parks are great fun. Between the resorts and City Walk, the Orlando campus is both human in scale while having lots of options. It easily supports a 3-night visit, and the addition of EU will push it to four---which is just about the average US trip length.

My plan for my DVC ownership includes a trip strictly to Universal in the rotation.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

in terms of affecting crowds, food is not a driving factor for Disney.

Uh, yes it is.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Uh, yes it is.

I don't think food is in the top 5 reasons for most people going to Disney, i would say that theming of restaurants is more important than food quality at this point. Could i be wrong about that, sure. am i wrong about it being out of peoples top reasons for visiting, nah

 

[Brian Noble]

People with small children especially just need something to eat.

This reminds me of a quote from Dick Kinzel, the longtime Cedar Fair CEO. Dick had some definite successes. He orchestrated the Paramount acquisition; many folks thought that was overpriced but I think history has validated the decision. (He also bought Geaga Lake from Six Flags, a much less successful decision.) He was also one of those Old School guys who walked the park every day, and found it physically impossible to walk past trash without picking it up.

But, he was also a little backward looking when it came to a lot of the guest-facing parts of the experience. The food service, in particular, was lackluster. There were some bright spots, but mostly it was slow, over-priced and not very good. In a conference call discussing the impact of the recession on guest per-capita spending, he said they could price dining pretty much however they liked because, in effect people have to eat.

It took a while after his departure, but the chain has gotten much better at food service. Cedar Point in particular has really upped its game; they've built three major restaurants in the past four years, all of which are solid. It's still not cheap, but it is much faster, and much better quality.

Interestingly, the person who took over for Kinzel was Matt Ouimet, who had previously been the Disneyland Resort president.