Cropping ears....dogs

[WoodysRoundup]

I think you don't want to do it. It's the way it's always been done, everyone expects you to do it, you probably assumed you would do it, but now you're not so sure.

"Not so sure" is your gut's way of telling you this isn't for you and you're going to be someone who should march to the beat of his/her own drummer on this one. You know you won't love the dog any less with intact ears, so why take a chance on doing something you'll feel bad about?

Remember....If all your friends jumped off the roof of a building, does that mean you would too?

You wouldn't have posted if you didn't have serious reservations. Now go kiss a dog ear.

Loved every word of your post......you hit the nail on the head.

 

[daisax]

I'm a boxer breeder -- if it's 12 weeks, it's too late, and badly standing cropped ears look far worse than uncropped ears.

I have had a 6 month old UNcropped puppy get second place in her class at the National -- and judges have come a long way in the 3 years since then. Should you decide to show the pup, it won't be a huge handicap.

Most prominent ethical breeders that I know urge pet owners NOT to crop -- the aftercare is considerable, and if you don't do it right, you end up with a silly looking one ear up, one half down look.

Your contract with your breeder should have spelled out precisely what was expected, and most show breeders will handle the cropping at the vet of their choice. Assuming there's no coownership in place and a predetermined agreement to show the dog, the dog is yours and it's your decision. To a certain extent, by waiting this long, the decision is made, and I would question any breeder who would urge a cropping at 12 weeks on the "chance" that they might want to show.

Before any decision is made on breeding, please read up on all the required health testing for the breed (it's considerable, annual, and expensive) and make sure that such testing was already done on the parents of the pup you have. If your breeder doesn't already have meticulous health records going back generations, you shouldn't breed your pup, because you won't have enough information to breed conscientiously.

Boxers have been too popular in recent years and there's no reason to bring any more into the world who haven't been extensively screened for heart disease and hip issues. We do have a new gene test for degenerative myelopathy, which should make great inroads against that scourge in the next decade. Cancer also remains a major killer, and the best guard against that is healthy living and a thorough knowledge of blood lines.

 

[Jynohn]

I agree with Daisax. We show/breed Great Danes, and there's no way I'd advise a pet owner to crop. The aftercare is extremely time consuming, and many owners give up before the ears are fully standing. We have one show Dane who's ears never stood after almost 18 months of taping.

Showing and finishing an uncropped Dane can be done, but is more difficult. Two of our dogs are imported from Europe, and therefore uncroppped. Our handlers told us not to even bother showing them as their ears are too big and they won't too well in the ring. But if your dog is already 12 weeks old, and you're on the fence about showing, I agree that natural is best.

Enjoy your new puppy!

 

[WoodysRoundup]

I'm a boxer breeder -- if it's 12 weeks, it's too late, and badly standing cropped ears look far worse than uncropped ears.

I have had a 6 month old UNcropped puppy get second place in her class at the National -- and judges have come a long way in the 3 years since then. Should you decide to show the pup, it won't be a huge handicap.

Most prominent ethical breeders that I know urge pet owners NOT to crop -- the aftercare is considerable, and if you don't do it right, you end up with a silly looking one ear up, one half down look.

Your contract with your breeder should have spelled out precisely what was expected, and most show breeders will handle the cropping at the vet of their choice. Assuming there's no coownership in place and a predetermined agreement to show the dog, the dog is yours and it's your decision. To a certain extent, by waiting this long, the decision is made, and I would question any breeder who would urge a cropping at 12 weeks on the "chance" that they might want to show.

Before any decision is made on breeding, please read up on all the required health testing for the breed (it's considerable, annual, and expensive) and make sure that such testing was already done on the parents of the pup you have. If your breeder doesn't already have meticulous health records going back generations, you shouldn't breed your pup, because you won't have enough information to breed conscientiously.

Boxers have been too popular in recent years and there's no reason to bring any more into the world who haven't been extensively screened for heart disease and hip issues. We do have a new gene test for degenerative myelopathy, which should make great inroads against that scourge in the next decade. Cancer also remains a major killer, and the best guard against that is healthy living and a thorough knowledge of blood lines.

As to the age, the vet has been cropping boxers for over 30 years and will crop until 14 weeks with confidence. Half our pups littermates were cropped, half not. There was no "understanding" that I would crop. The sires human Dad lives nearby and likes how he is developing so he is driving the point home hard to crop him.....all the while stating it's my decision. Our puppy's mom and dad were both finished champions. Both parents have been heart tested and there is longevity on both sides of the line. He was sold to us as a pet b/c he is a plain brindle with little flash and 8 pups were in the litter. We've had many boxers in our family and we are well aware of all the health issues related to boxers. I also watched my parents and brother tape their boxers ears over the years. I originally posted b/c I was really unsure. It wasn't a breeder issue, just mine. Bottom line, I like the look but my heart in telling me I don't feel good about cropping his ears. Thanks so much for your post.

 

[DMickey28]

I wouldn't do it personally. I have never even thought of doing the declaws on my cats or dogs. I didn't realize it at the time but my corgi, from a breeder, did have the declaws removed and his tail docked. I'd have loved to prevent that from happening.

 

[janey99]

I have a boxer from an English breeder (we are in US) and her ears are natural - I prefer the look. That being said, her tail is docked, which I have to admit I prefer as well. I'm a walking contradiction!

I will agree with the posters who have commented about the aftercare - a docked tail requires very little, and can seldom be "messed up" by the owner once it's done, but the ears are a whole 'nother story - I've seen some wretched examples.

We have a rescued pitbull who looks like someone tried to crop his ears with a piece of broken glass. It's part of his personality now, but I can't imiagine what the poor thing went through.

Jane

 

[I_Know_You2!]

I wouldn't do it. It is kind of like cicumcision...needless, painful, and lacking purpose.

I love boxers any way you look at them!

 

[komondorok]

I should have also mentioned that the breeders (of the mom AND dad) are pressuring a little bit. They've suggested that I think about showing him and studding him someday). Although the AKC now recognizes uncropped ears, they said most judges are still preferential to those with cropped ears. I don't know that I'd ever really want to get into the show thing anyway. He really is our family pet (as well as our other boxer).

I think this is a personal decision for you.

Although I don't think the show thing should be a factor in your decision. I am not a huge show person, although both our dogs are finished, and don't have a cropped breed, so my opinion is just obervational. But it has been my observation that more and more judges are jumping on the no-cropping band wagon. This seems to be especially true if they have judged outside of the AKC, and many have, where many times cropping has been banned.

If your dog is is as good as your breeders think he is, then natural ears should not make too much of an impact in the ring. It might be more difficult because there is still a bias for cropped ears. You can be part of the growing trend to stop the cropping. And you can do your homework and only show under judges that don't discriminate against natural ears.

Here is a great Boxer, that finished undefeated under most of the top judges in the US, and he has natural ears. So, if your dog is good enough, today's judges will pick your dog even if he has natural ears.
http://www.boxerunderground.com/apr_bu_99/jerryrice.htm


Our dogs are our family pets first and foremost. But like yours, our breeders encouraged us to show them. You might want to give it a try. It was much different and much more fun than I expected.

 

[bumbershoot]

I have a cocker spaniel that still has all of his tail and not the little stub and it's never bothered me that he doesn't have the full cocker spaniel look. I don't do the weird cocker haircut either. I think he enjoys his tail. Amazing how many people didn't know that cockers tails are cropped.

OK I had NO idea that their tails were surgically altered!!!!!!

I wouldn't do it personally. I have never even thought of doing the declaws on my cats or dogs. I didn't realize it at the time but my corgi, from a breeder, did have the declaws removed and his tail docked. I'd have loved to prevent that from happening.

Are dewclaws like the normal claws (where it's like removing from the first knuckle)? I know my mom was absolutely against altering dogs (or humans!) in any way (as am I, yay for I_Know_You2!'s analogy) but she had the dewclaws of our dogs removed, b/c with an active dog they might rip off. Though when I write that out, it sounds ridiculous, b/c I'm generally against taking things off or putting things in (like ear tubes) just in case something might happen.




OP, we recently met a doberman/something BIG mix, and they didn't do his ears, and he was so cute! I mean, especially b/c of the body (I almost want to say he was great dane mix, but I don't think that's right, but the dog was very tall), he was impressive and off-putting, but omg those ears were adorable! Allowed his personality to come through, instead of just the "I'm a guard dog, be afraid" look the cropped ears say.

I'm not sure I've ever met a boxer with its birth-ears (how's that for a way of putting it?), but I bet I'd like it.

Sounds kind of like the breeder sold you what they thought was going to be a "pet" dog, and is now regretting it since the dog is growing so nicely...

 

[Michelle67]

I wouldn't do it. On the tail thing though (OT) a room-mate of mine made the decision not to crop her pit/boxer mix's tail or ears. The ears were fine. The tail was a disaster. In some breeds it seems to me that there might actually be a reason of some kind for tail docking. Pit/boxer tails are long, whippy, and really really HARD. Not at all like being tail-whipped by my Shepherd. We had never-ending bruises just above the knee from Sarge being happy to see us.

 

[hiwaygal]

Are dewclaws like the normal claws (where it's like removing from the first knuckle)? I know my mom was absolutely against altering dogs (or humans!) in any way (as am I, yay for I_Know_You2!'s analogy) but she had the dewclaws of our dogs removed, b/c with an active dog they might rip off. Though when I write that out, it sounds ridiculous, b/c I'm generally against taking things off or putting things in (like ear tubes) just in case something might happen

Dew claws are a bit different...

Removing dew claws isn't just a vanity issue. It can be a preventive measure from future injury.

A dew claw is essentially an "extra toe" higher up on the inside of a dog's foot (you can see it here)

Because the claw never touches the ground it cannot be naturally worn down and if not carefully watched and maintained it can get caught in just about anything. Even if you do keep an eye on it and keep it well maintained, it can get caught on things.

I had a dog who got his dew claw caught in the knot end of a rawhide bone (this was several years ago when I though rawhides were okay treats)...he pulled the claw/nail right off! It just kept bleeding and we ended up at the emergency vet for a very expensive "surgery". His dew claw grew back.

I have a dog now who has several extra toes/dew claws. Unfortunately they were never removed and I wish they had been. They must be constantly checked and watched!

I'm not sure when the best time is to remove dew claws but after seeing injuries to them, it's a different issue entirely from ears and tails.

 

[SamIAm21]

I have a cocker spaniel that still has all of his tail and not the little stub and it's never bothered me that he doesn't have the full cocker spaniel look. I don't do the weird cocker haircut either. I think he enjoys his tail. Amazing how many people didn't know that cockers tails are cropped.

Yeah! I am so happy to hear that people are finally standing up/going against the grain with docking Cocker Spaniel's tails. I love their tails. With a hunting dog, like a Brittany or Springer, I might be able to sort of understand this as they won't get full of burrs and stickers. The tails don't signal the game before the hunter can get into range, but on a Cocker Spaniel, which I haven't seen one hunt in quite some time, I think its unnecessary and their tails are sooo cute!

I have a Cavalier and they have such cute little tails too. I couldn't imagine docking them!

 

[BCV513]

Dew claws are a bit different...

Removing dew claws isn't just a vanity issue. It can be a preventive measure from future injury.

A dew claw is essentially an "extra toe" higher up on the inside of a dog's foot (you can see it here)

Because the claw never touches the ground it cannot be naturally worn down and if not carefully watched and maintained it can get caught in just about anything. Even if you do keep an eye on it and keep it well maintained, it can get caught on things.

I had a dog who got his dew claw caught in the knot end of a rawhide bone (this was several years ago when I though rawhides were okay treats)...he pulled the claw/nail right off! It just kept bleeding and we ended up at the emergency vet for a very expensive "surgery". His dew claw grew back.

I have a dog now who has several extra toes/dew claws. Unfortunately they were never removed and I wish they had been. They must be constantly checked and watched!

I'm not sure when the best time is to remove dew claws but after seeing injuries to them, it's a different issue entirely from ears and tails.

Wow, thank you for this. I just got my first dog about a month ago, and I had no idea what a dew claw was. Heck I didn't even know puppies lost their first set of teeth! I called my vet in a panic when I realized some teeth were missing. I think there's a note in my file: "Dog is fine. Owner is nuts."

 

[daisax]

BCV513, they are used to that question... along with people freaking out that their male dog has nipples (I remember hearing of one owner that kept trying to pull one off, thinking it was a tick! ) And in your defense, not all breeds have them, or have them on all 4 legs.

A ripped off dew claw is not a pretty sight -- my friend's lab ripped one off when it got caught in an afghan on their bed... the bloodshed was horrific.

OP, the thing with cropping is that no matter how skilled the vet, it still comes down to aftercare. And if the puppy was not important enough to the breeding program of the breeder and stud dog owner for THEM to keep the pup, then you needn't worry too badly about what they might want from him later. Enjoy him, maybe show him a little to get a feel for it, but know that a full grown boxer male is just as imposing with natural ears as cropped -- it's all about body language!

 

[KDIPIAZZ]

I do not agree with ear cropping and I'm thankful my vet no longer crops ears or declaws cats. It serves no useful purpose, unless you use dogs for fighting (illegal) or against serious predators (LGS's in Turkey may have ears cropped as they guard sheep and other livestock against bears, wolves, etc.) I routinely have dewclaws removed as they serve no purpose and often result in injury if they catch on something. Tails are a maybe - I own a German Short-haired Pointer with a 40% dock. He's a rescue and came to me that way. Docking does help to prevent tail injuries when doing field work. On the other hand, pointers (English) are not docked and are utilized just as frequently for field work. Any dog with a long, "whippy" tale has the potential to injure the tail. My Great Dane has a lump of scar tissue on the end from previous injuries and routinely wears a sock on the end of her tail - otherwise she beats it against the walls when she's walking and sprays blood everywhere. But Danes aren't routinely docked to begin with.

 

[WoodysRoundup]

I am truly content with my decision (now that I've made it) thanks to all of you. It is an end to three weeks of anguish and back and forth. I feel so much better. I even spoke with the vet tech today who confided that they mostly just see breeders cropping anymore. She discreetly told me that she thought I had made a great decision. Thanks again for all the insightful viewpoints!

 

[EmmersIsTheMommy]

We needed to get my poor terrier's dew claws out and never did. We just kept having to hurt her to get them out. Poor thing. Def different IMO

 

[Aimeedyan]

I am truly content with my decision (now that I've made it) thanks to all of you. It is an end to three weeks of anguish and back and forth. I feel so much better. I even spoke with the vet tech today who confided that they mostly just see breeders cropping anymore. She discreetly told me that she thought I had made a great decision. Thanks again for all the insightful viewpoints!

I think you made the right decision.

For the record, I'm very much against medical procedures done solely for looks in animals. Dew claws are different - if a dog is a hunter or active in agility or sports, it can be a painful tear. Even docking a tail in some hunting dogs is a safety measure. But for the everyday pet, keep them the way God, er, breeding made them.

I have a floppy earred Min Schnauzer and I love her expressive ears. I personally don't care for the look of cropped ears. She does have a docked tail, though, evidently done at birth like most breeders do.

 

[PrincessKitty1]

I am truly content with my decision (now that I've made it) thanks to all of you. It is an end to three weeks of anguish and back and forth. I feel so much better. I even spoke with the vet tech today who confided that they mostly just see breeders cropping anymore. She discreetly told me that she thought I had made a great decision. Thanks again for all the insightful viewpoints!

Thanks for the update!

I think docking /cropping are the kind of thing people will look back on in another 25 years or so and wonder how ANYONE could have EVER thought it was OK. The idea of cutting up an animal to make it "look better" is so out-there and bizarre.

BTW I used to work in the newborn nursery and was absolutely appalled at the circumcisions. Doctors would always tell the parents that anesthesia wasn't necessary because it "doesn't really hurt" and "they're crying because they're being held down, not because of the pain." Oh and don't forget that "their nerve endings aren't mature at this age so they don't really feel pain yet."

Cutting on a living, breathing being HURTS and is a breathtakingly cruel thing to do for cosmetic purposes.

 

[Anewman]

Well I guess we have gotten used to our Boxers floppy ears, we prefer them to the pointy cropped ones.

The gestures they make when you speak to them... the ears add to their personality.