Criminalizing Home Schooling in CA

[sha_lyn]

Maybe it depended on the state. Mine was in PA. She graduated from Slippery Rock State Teacher's College (she was one of the first women field hockey players there!)

Just because she did attend college doesn't mean she was required to do so either.


I do know the ele schools my parents attended in the 1940s were community schools. The community (usually the church leadership) would hire the teacher. They were not required to have a college degree. The high school was a "public school" and had more oversight.

 

[bluefairy13]

I don't think that the feds do a good job regulating anything. Well, hardly... They've mussed horribly with the educational system and NCLB. At least, imo.

You are right but I think the states do a worse job. My new pet peeve is that we have all these states deciding all kinds of things for themselves. We have no federal standard for all kinds of important things.

I agree that this is not a perfect solution, but I still think the standards should be national and not local.

 

[bluefairy13]

Just because she did attend college doesn't mean she was required to do so either.


I do know the ele schools my parents attended in the 1940s were community schools. The community (usually the church leadership) would hire the teacher. They were not required to have a college degree. The high school was a "public school" and had more oversight.

You are right. This could be true. Like I said, I'm curious now and I'm going to look into it. I always assumed she got the degree because she had to.

In any event, there were people she had to answer to, and I think the same should be true for homeschoolers.

 

[momto2girls]

See, now I am having an emotional response. Do you really think that because I choose to send my children to the public schools I am willing to give up all of my individual rights to the government? I don't see it as an all or nothing kind of thing.

Not at all. My point was that I don't believe that the government should intervene and take away CHOICES for parents. I think that parents should be able to choose to send their children to public school, private school or homeschool. The other poster indicated that most homeschool parents are just trying to control their children and she wasn't sure that they should have that choice. That is what I was responding to.

 

[KariC]

I don't think that the feds do a good job regulating anything. Well, hardly... They've mussed horribly with the educational system and NCLB. At least, imo.

ITA...especially since the fed demands were given to the states, all with their own standards, teaching requirements, funding issues, etc.. Maybe we need to federalize it all (shudder)...at least then maybe some states would be on a level playing field (academically and financially). Scary thought though!

 

[momto2girls]

You have been avoiding answering questions that have been directly asked of you. Also, you do not get to set the conditions of this discussion.

Thank you. Even though I stated that I unfortunately rose to her provocation but could continue the discussion without sarcasm, she has chosen to ignore the questions and comments in my posts and just focus on my initial annoyance.

 

[meandtheguys2]

You are right but I think the states do a worse job. My new pet peeve is that we have all these states deciding all kinds of things for themselves. We have no federal standard for all kinds of important things.

I agree that this is not a perfect solution, but I still think the standards should be national and not local.

I'm more of a state and local kind of gal. Our federal govt. doesn't seem to have any common sense, and is so often for sale to the highest bidder. You look at NCLB, a program that is impossible. And unfunded. One group comes up with an idea that sounds good and corrupts it. Then the next campaigns that they will change it.

I don't want to be any more regulated by such a system than we already are.

 

[rcpae]

I know I am jumping into this discussion a little late. For me this ruling comes down to rights. Do I (and every other US citizen) have the right to homeschool my child?

Education is not perfect no matter if your children attend public school, private school, charter school or homeschool. What education choice one family chooses may not work for another. We need to support our nations children no matter how they are educated. You can find failing public, private, charter and home schools if you just open your eyes. Even when there are checks and balances someone will fall thru the cracks. Unfortunate but true.

I think that the true concern here should be about the freedom to choose the method, not getting riled up over each others choices.

 

[bluefairy13]

Not at all. My point was that I don't believe that the government should intervene and take away CHOICES for parents. I think that parents should be able to choose to send their children to public school, private school or homeschool. The other poster indicated that most homeschool parents are just trying to control their children and she wasn't sure that they should have that choice. That is what I was responding to.

Excuse me, but if you continue to misquote me and put words in my mouth you are going to start seeing my emotional side.

I said " I disagree that a parent should want to have that much control over their children, and I have the right to disagree. But I'm not sure if I think parents have the right to make that choice.

In other words, the OP's question is a very good one. Should a parent make the decision to educate his child with absolutely no government interference?"

Not "most parents" and not "trying to control their children". I never said the government should have full control or even more control than the parent.

If you are going to fight , at least fight fair. Otherwise, let's just not talk.

 

[momto2girls]

I know I am jumping into this discussion a little late. For me this ruling comes down to rights. Do I (and every other US citizen) have the right to homeschool my child?

Education is not perfect no matter if your children attend public school, private school, charter school or homeschool. What education choice one family chooses may not work for another. We need to support our nations children no matter how they are educated. You can find failing public, private, charter and home schools if you just open your eyes. Even when there are checks and balances someone will fall thru the cracks. Unfortunate but true.

I think that the true concern here should be about the freedom to choose the method, not getting riled up over each others choices.

Brilliant post! Thank you!

BTW, how are you liking all of this snow?

 

[bluefairy13]

So momto2girls, I show you how I am only expressing my opinion about homeschooling without any government interference despite what you have accused me of and you offer no apology.

I find that very interesting and I think I'll bow out now.

Thanks to the rest of you for an interesting lunch hour discussion and I'd like to say you seem like intelligent women who are probably doing a fine job with your kids. I just hope everyone is.

 

[rcpae]

I am liking the snow and in fact we are packing up to go sledding right now. I think I literally have a box full of gloves hats and scarves that need packed for us to put on once we get there.

That being said, I won't be sad once we hit the 70's!

Thanks for asking.

 

[Nikel]

I'm not talking about teaching degrees, although I do disagree with you that that isn't needed. I'm talking about college degrees. I would be very concerned if someone without a college degree were teaching my child. She went to a school where most had masters degrees and I was very happy about that.

I wouldn't. A degree isn't really an indicator of intelligence or of even retaining what was taught. When we're talking about younger children, no, a college degree is not at all necessary, IMO. And really, if I'm even teaching a high school student, I have the knowledge necessary. I completed high school at the top of my class with full academic scholarships offers. The required English, history, math, etc classes in college were easier than the ones I took in college. Personally I'd rather have someone like me, that's naturally intelligent and a quick learner, than my friend with a masters that struggles.

 

[jamimb]

Here is the deal! All I hear on this thread is how the public schools suck and homeschool kids excel. The truth of the matter is some public schools do suck but I know my child is in a great school system, has knowledge that exceeds my own and is getting a wonderful education. I also know that my own children would not learn as well at home.

On the flip side my sister homeschools and a family that I know very well from church do as well. I believe with my whole heart that this children are getting a quality education but lets not pretend that every homeschooled child is. the bottom line is there are some homeschooled (I use the term loosely) children who are getting little or no education at all ( I know I family like this!) Every state is different and some states require NOTHING of homeschooling parents.
I don't know what the best solution would be but I think homeschooled parents and children should be held accountable. I don't know if standardized testing is the answer but IMO would not be a bad idea.

There are good and bad in both (homeschooling and public eduacation) so I guess my point is not to ASSUME that if you are in the public school system you are getting an inferior education and by homeschooling they are getting a better one. Every parent is different and every child different.

While I believe that probably every parent who homeschools here is doing a good job please dont assume that every parent is. I do think it should be up to each state to make sure that every child (homeschooled or not) is getting a good education!

 

[Nikel]

I think they should all be allowed to do it, I just worry about the ones who were not educated and were not teaching in a very structured way.

Education doesn't have to be very structured to work. The things I've really cared about and wanted to learn about and put forth the effort to learn on my own, with zero formal or structured education, are the things I have retained the best and have the most extensive knowledge about. Personally, I think a more laid back approach is better.

 

[momto2girls]

I am liking the snow and in fact we are packing up to go sledding right now. I think I literally have a box full of gloves hats and scarves that need packed for us to put on once we get there.

That being said, I won't be sad once we hit the 70's!

Thanks for asking.

Well, we're in the same area. We're enjoying it too! I'm actually glad that we had a decent snow this year. I've been so tired of all of the ice/snow mix that doesn't allow any good outdoor fun.

Now we just have to worry about flooding as all of this is going to melt this week. But then we're back to snow flurries this weekend again. It's crazy!

 

[meandtheguys2]

Here is the deal! All I hear on this thread is how the public schools suck and homeschool kids excel. The truth of the matter is some public schools do suck but I know my child is in a great school system, has knowledge that exceeds my own and is getting a wonderful education. I also know that my own children would not learn as well at home.

On the flip side my sister homeschools and a family that I know very well from church do as well. I believe with my whole heart that this children are getting a quality education but lets not pretend that every homeschooled child is. the bottom line is there are some homeschooled (I use the term loosely) children who are getting little or no education at all ( I know I family like this!) Every state is different and some states require NOTHING of homeschooling parents.
I don't know what the best solution would be but I think homeschooled parents and children should be held accountable. I don't know if standardized testing is the answer but IMO would not be a bad idea.

There are good and bad in both (homeschooling and public eduacation) so I guess my point is not to ASSUME that if you are in the public school system you are getting an inferior education and by homeschooling they are getting a better one. Every parent is different and every child different.

While I believe that probably every parent who homeschools here is doing a good job please dont assume that every parent is. I do think it should be up to each state to make sure that every child (homeschooled or not) is getting a good education!

As I stated earlier, there are bad apples in either home or public schools. And there are students who are just not able to learn the material. I do not believe that we should legislate to the worst examples of either.

I don't have a problem complying with our state's requirements, and honestly don't know which states require nothing. I do know that I would not want any further requirements in our state.

In OH, our system seems to work reasonably well. After 9/11 there was a big growth in homeschooling in our county. Many people just pulled their kids out of panic, and did very little to educate that year. They were required to test or have a portfolio review, and the majority went back to school the next year. A handful got with the program, and have continued not out of fear for their child, but because they found it worked best for them.

 

[sha_lyn]

Education doesn't have to be very structured to work. The things I've really cared about and wanted to learn about and put forth the effort to learn on my own, with zero formal or structured education, are the things I have retained the best and have the most extensive knowledge about. Personally, I think a more laid back approach is better.

ITA...structure does not equal quality. Motivation (on both the part of the parent and the child) and dedication are the keys to a quality home-school education. Really they are the keys to any quality education...be it traditional school, home school, higher education, self teaching etc.

 

[barkley]

for those who comment on family members who taught a century or shy less than ago sans a college diploma i suggest that you look to the criteria employed then to qualify for 'graduate' or hiring status before you compare them to today. recently someone posted a thread on this board that listed the average "public school" criteria for an individual to 'graduate' from school in the early 1900's (the general norm for a teaching applicant dating back to the early 1900's). most who responded to the post, many of which whom had at a minimum batchelor's degrees admitted that they would be hard pressed to be capable of meeting the standards. individuals hired as teachers at that time in regions that were seeking competant teachers, employed oral and written exams that far exceeded the average minimum standards that exist today (largly because of the existence of multiple subject-multiple grade classroom not commonly in existence today).

my children actualy attend the 'unheard of' formal multi-subject/multi grade schools that is similar to those classrooms of the early 1900's. they are in a school that has one room 1st-4th and another 5th-8th (their prior school within the same system was k-2, 3-8) and despite having HIGHER teaching educational/credential standards than most public schools we are hard pressed to find anyone fully aware of all of the needs and companants of educating children and reccognizing their capabilities who is willing to even apply for a job.

i applaud homeschoolers who successfully educate their children but i have to worry about those individuals who are hesitant to at the very least have their children demonstrate that their educational status at the very least meets the minimal standards of public school students. the bulk of homeschoolers i read or hear of contend that their children are well above grade level in the bulk of basic subject matter-if that is the case it should be of no concern to provide the data that supports this.

 

[mickeyboat]

Not at all. My point was that I don't believe that the government should intervene and take away CHOICES for parents. I think that parents should be able to choose to send their children to public school, private school or homeschool. The other poster indicated that most homeschool parents are just trying to control their children and she wasn't sure that they should have that choice. That is what I was responding to.

I got you, now. Choices are important.

Denae