Crash beats Brokeback!!! Yay!

[SeattleRedBear]

They have the same rights.

You are misinformed. According to the Government Accounting Office, there are 1,049 federal rights that are dependent on marital status. Would you like the complete list?

Here's a sampling of some that are federal, state and local:

Hospital Visitation Rights

Married couples have the automatic right to visit each other in the hospital and make medical decisions. Same sex couples can be denied the right to visit a sick or injured partner in the hospital.

Health insurance

Many public and private employers provide medical coverage to the legal spouses of their employees, but most employers do not provide coverage to the same-sex partners of their employees. LGBT employees who do receive health coverage for their same-sex partners must pay federal income taxes on the value of the insurance. Same-sex couples cannot even buy a family health insurance policy on the open market.

Spousal Privilege

Spousal privilege, granted to married couples, is the right of a person to refuse to testify against their spouse in the court of law.

Inheritance rights

When a married person's spouse dies, the survivor can automatically inherit a substantial share from the deceased spouse's estate regardless of whether a will exists. Without marriage, a same-sex partner has no automatic right to inherit.

Family leave

Married workers in many workplaces are legally entitled to unpaid leave from their jobs to care for an ill spouse but workers with same-sex partners have no right to family leave.

Pensions

After the death of a worker, most pension plans pay survivor benefits only to a legal spouse of the participant - so surviving same-sex partners get no pension support for their surviving partners. Any pension dies with the worker.

Nursing homes

Married couples have a legal right to live together in nursing homes. An unmarried and elderly same-sex couple does not have the right to spend their final days together in a nursing home.

Home protection

Laws protect married seniors from being forced to sell their homes to pay high nursing-home bills; seniors in same-sex relationships have no such protection. A non-married partner can be forced to sell his or her own house to repay a state lien for nursing home care. A non-married partner who lives in the home but does not own it could even be forced from the home to pay nursing home costs.

Retirement savings

While a married person can roll over a deceased spouse's 401(k) or IRA funds into an IRA without paying taxes, surviving partners in same-sex relationships must withdraw the entire amount, pay income taxes on it and also lose the tax deferral benefits of these accounts.

Taxes

Estate taxes. A spouse who dies may leave an unlimited amount of property to the surviving spouse without paying any state or federal estate taxes. Without the benefit of marriage, any amount of property over the federal or state exclusion amounts is taxed.

Income tax. Gay and lesbian couples are forced to file their taxes separately, as "single" people, ineligible for the tax benefits afforded to married couples.

Social Security benefits

Married people receive Social Security payments upon the death of a spouse. Despite paying payroll taxes, surviving partners in same-sex relationships receive no Social Security survivor benefits resulting in an average annual income loss of $5,528 upon the death of a partner.

Shall I continue???

 

[palmtreegirl]

In regards to the original post, I just watched Crash last night and while it was a good movie I'm surprised it won best film. I liked it but it didn't blow me away. I'll have to check out the other nominees because I'm not going to judge or comment on movies I haven't seen.

 

[MsLeFever]

Annie Proulx, author of Brokeback Mountain and a collaborator on the film, recently gave an interview in which she made it clear that both characters are gay. While individual interpretations of a story may differ (that's what makes literature and film so interesting!), the author's intent was to create two gay characters who struggle with their sexuality in an oppressive society.

\

Hmmm...interesting. I guess if "gay" is determined by the gender of the person you want to spend a life with then Ennis was "gay" and just unwilling to commit to Jack since he felt (rightly it seems by Jack's fate) that it was too dangerous. But the greek tragedy (can't remember who said that but as a theatre prof it rings true) is that Ennis couldn't be happy with any other woman OR man. It didn't have a primary connection to sex just that he wasn't whole without Jack.

This movie stayed with me for days - I just kept trying to find a way that the men could be together and happy. There wasn't one.

For what it's worth - I enjoyed Crash as well but it didn't stay with me in the same way.

To the poster that watched OZ - shoot - the sex in Brokeback is FAR tamer, you'll be fine.

 

[pixiemomma]

You are misinformed. According to the Government Accounting Office, there are 1,049 federal rights that are dependent on marital status. Would you like the complete list?

Here's a sampling of some that are federal, state and local:

Hospital Visitation Rights

Married couples have the automatic right to visit each other in the hospital and make medical decisions. Same sex couples can be denied the right to visit a sick or injured partner in the hospital.

Health insurance

Many public and private employers provide medical coverage to the legal spouses of their employees, but most employers do not provide coverage to the same-sex partners of their employees. LGBT employees who do receive health coverage for their same-sex partners must pay federal income taxes on the value of the insurance. Same-sex couples cannot even buy a family health insurance policy on the open market.

Spousal Privilege

Spousal privilege, granted to married couples, is the right of a person to refuse to testify against their spouse in the court of law.

Inheritance rights

When a married person's spouse dies, the survivor can automatically inherit a substantial share from the deceased spouse's estate regardless of whether a will exists. Without marriage, a same-sex partner has no automatic right to inherit.

Family leave

Married workers in many workplaces are legally entitled to unpaid leave from their jobs to care for an ill spouse but workers with same-sex partners have no right to family leave.

Pensions

After the death of a worker, most pension plans pay survivor benefits only to a legal spouse of the participant - so surviving same-sex partners get no pension support for their surviving partners. Any pension dies with the worker.

Nursing homes

Married couples have a legal right to live together in nursing homes. An unmarried and elderly same-sex couple does not have the right to spend their final days together in a nursing home.

Home protection

Laws protect married seniors from being forced to sell their homes to pay high nursing-home bills; seniors in same-sex relationships have no such protection. A non-married partner can be forced to sell his or her own house to repay a state lien for nursing home care. A non-married partner who lives in the home but does not own it could even be forced from the home to pay nursing home costs.

Retirement savings

While a married person can roll over a deceased spouse's 401(k) or IRA funds into an IRA without paying taxes, surviving partners in same-sex relationships must withdraw the entire amount, pay income taxes on it and also lose the tax deferral benefits of these accounts.

Taxes

Estate taxes. A spouse who dies may leave an unlimited amount of property to the surviving spouse without paying any state or federal estate taxes. Without the benefit of marriage, any amount of property over the federal or state exclusion amounts is taxed.

Income tax. Gay and lesbian couples are forced to file their taxes separately, as "single" people, ineligible for the tax benefits afforded to married couples.

Social Security benefits

Married people receive Social Security payments upon the death of a spouse. Despite paying payroll taxes, surviving partners in same-sex relationships receive no Social Security survivor benefits resulting in an average annual income loss of $5,528 upon the death of a partner.

Shall I continue???

Ah, but you know what he is going to say to this.

The good news is, I think a majority of the 30 and under crowd, regardless of politics, view gay rights differently than the previous generation.

 

[eclectics]

Ah, but you know what he is going to say to this.

The good news is, I think a majority of the 30 and under crowd, regardless of politics, view gay rights differently than the previous generation.

I think Joe's idea of equal rights is that gays are allowed to live here, period. As long as nobody asks them and they don't tell or, God forbid, act on their feelings. I mean they are not being deported or anything. Isn't that fair enough? As for the "Good News", I suspect you are right and I think the laws of the land will hopefully be quite different in 25 years (as long as the Supreme Court doesn't end up totally right wing)

 

[wvrevy]

The problem with Joe's argument - and the part that makes it so disheartening to anyone that thinks we've advanced as a society in the past 50 years - is that it is the exact same argument that was used to support racist laws saying that blacks could not marry whites. "After all, they can marry anyone they like...so long as that person falls into the category that we define". It's disturbing how similar the anti-gay position and the racist positions really are. The sad difference is, it's still socially acceptable to be bigotted towards gays.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Interesting...love is a decision...you "decide" who you will fall in love with. I guess the "Bachelor" and the "Dating Game" type shows are OK. Maybe that is the right way to pick. Or better yet simply have a panel of judges decide for you. All you'd have to do is "decide" that you'll fall in love with whoever they pick. And of course, divorce should be even easier to get, since the reverse must also be true...we could simply decide we don't love someone anymore. "Honey, I've been thinking, I know we've been together for 30 years, but I've simply decided not to love you anymore. No particular reason, just a decision after all, don't take it personally. I never found you attractive, but everyone else thought we'd be a good couple, and I consciously made a decision to fall in love with whomever they thought best. And now, I've simply changed my mind. No hard feelings, OK?"

Marriage vows are a life-long decision between a man and a women.

You can't back out just because your emotions change. And you forgot the part about deciding wisely. As adults, we can't let emotions be the overriding force in our life.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

The problem with Joe's argument - and the part that makes it so disheartening to anyone that thinks we've advanced as a society in the past 50 years - is that it is the exact same argument that was used to support racist laws saying that blacks could not marry whites. "After all, they can marry anyone they like...so long as that person falls into the category that we define". It's disturbing how similar the anti-gay position and the racist positions really are. The sad difference is, it's still socially acceptable to be bigotted towards gays.

They are not similar just because you say they are.

Marriage is between a man and a women.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I think Joe's idea of equal rights is that gays are allowed to live here, period. As long as nobody asks them and they don't tell or, God forbid, act on their feelings. I mean they are not being deported or anything. Isn't that fair enough? As for the "Good News", I suspect you are right and I think the laws of the land will hopefully be quite different in 25 years (as long as the Supreme Court doesn't end up totally right wing)

As adults, we can't just act on our feelings. We need to make responsible decisions.

 

[eclectics]

As adults, we can't just act on our feelings. We need to make responsible decisions.

I meant that part of the quote in the broadest of terms. You missed the bigger picture, yet again.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I meant that part of the quote in the broadest of terms. You missed the bigger picture, yet again.

I mean it in broad terms too. We are who, what, and where we are in life based on the (hopefully responsible) decisions we make.

 

[eclectics]

I mean it in broad terms too. We are who, what, and where we are in life based on the (hopefully responsible) decisions we make.

If you are going to start the "being gay is a decision" argument, sorry, but I'm not up to that nonsense tonight. Maybe someone else would like to have a go.

 

[SeattleRedBear]

If you are going to start the "being gay is a decision" argument, sorry, but I'm not up to that nonsense tonight. Maybe someone else would like to have a go.

At this point, further discussion is useless. The people participating in the thread will not have their minds changed or influenced and anyone reading the thread will have heard all the relevant (and irrelevant) arguments and will decide for themselves.

I suggest we get back to the topic.

 

[Disney_1derland]

In my original post I said that there were major problems in the fifties, but, people weren't afraid to go outside at night. I would like to bring THAT part back, duh. Stop trying to twist my words. By the way, I'm part Jewish and part Native American, so my ancestors had to put up with things you wouldn't believe. My great grandmother was raised on a reservation, that wasn't lovely. My great grandfather was a jew in the backwoods of West Virginia, what fun. Today I have alot more harrasment issues with being female than being jewish or indian. And I think it's a real joke that YOU middle class white people are telling me about discrimination .

Well, I've just got to chime in here. Your obvious intelligence aside, the only discrimination I see being demonstrated are the few people (you included) who are spewing about what is unacceptable in the utopia you have formed in your head.

It is obvious that you did not take the lessons of your ancestory to heart and grow beyond them. Instead you have decided to perpetuate them on other parts of society. DUH.

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

toto2 Like I said, I wouldn't have a problem with a movie about two gay cowboys. Why should I care? The only problem I had was they didn't need to ruin the lives of the women they were involved with. Period. No excuses. What's wrong is wrong. Infidility is wrong, bringing children into the world for a lie is wrong.

I have come into this late, but do you think the movie was trying to glorify this?? I think it was a depiction of what life was like...
My ex FIL was gay...but back in the 50's, as a good Irish catholic, he thought that was wrong and he married a girl, became a cop and lived his life in secret...His wife was miserable, his kids were miserable all because he was...up until he died..he lived in secret..
How very sad..when his boyfriend died, he couldn't even grieve in public (his son and I knew because we were his caretakers when his health declined)
I think he would have been much happier had society be different..

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I have come into this late, but do you think the movie was trying to glorify this?? I think it was a depiction of what life was like...
My ex FIL was gay...but back in the 50's, as a good Irish catholic, he thought that was wrong and he married a girl, became a cop and lived his life in secret...His wife was miserable, his kids were miserable all because he was...up until he died..he lived in secret..
How very sad..when his boyfriend died, he couldn't even grieve in public (his son and I knew because we were his caretakers when his health declined)
I think he would have been much happier had society be different..

How do you know he would be happier? Sounds like he went thru life having a pity party.

If he made his wife and kids miserable too, well that is his responsibility, not society's.

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

How do you get that he went through life having a pity party...he didn't know that we knew..until the day he died he kept up the act

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

How do you get that he went through life having a pity party...he didn't know that we knew..until the day he died he kept up the act

So why did he make his wife and kids miserable? Did he have a "boyfriend" while he was married?

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

no..he didn't have a boyfriend until his wife divorced him
He wasn't happy...have you ever seen a married couple that didn't love each other. He was trying to do what was expected from him by society...

 

[swea_pea1]

So why did he make his wife and kids miserable? Did he have a "boyfriend" while he was married?

Joe, have you never loved somebody? Have you never been loved?

Let me tell you, if my husband has a bad day at work, I'm sad too. It's not because he comes home and does something drastic like beating me or the kids, it's just because it makes him miserable. And if he's miserable, it makes me miserable because I love him. What hurts him hurts me.

It's obvious to me from DisneyDmbNut's story that her FIL was miserable because he was living a life he would rather not live. And his kids and wife likely loved him, and so therefore they were miserable too.

I think what she was trying to say is that if he had been able to live the life he wanted to, he would have been a happier person.

DisneyDmbNut, please correct me if I'm wrong....