Crash beats Brokeback!!! Yay!

[DisneyDmbNut]

yes...that is it Thanks!
(ps...it was my EX FIL..)

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

no..he didn't have a boyfriend until his wife divorced him
He wasn't happy...have you ever seen a married couple that didn't love each other. He was trying to do what was expected from him by society...

I'm sorry to hear he had a rough time emotionally. We are who we are based on the decisions we make. If he made his wife and children miserable, then I'm sad for all involved, but it's not society's fault.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Joe, have you never loved somebody? Have you never been loved?

Let me tell you, if my husband has a bad day at work, I'm sad too. It's not because he comes home and does something drastic like beating me or the kids, it's just because it makes him miserable. And if he's miserable, it makes me miserable because I love him. What hurts him hurts me.

It's obvious to me from DisneyDmbNut's story that her FIL was miserable because he was living a life he would rather not live. And his kids and wife likely loved him, and so therefore they were miserable too.

I think what she was trying to say is that if he had been able to live the life he wanted to, he would have been a happier person.

DisneyDmbNut, please correct me if I'm wrong....

I understand a bad day. But if you are constantly making those you love feel miserable because you are miserable then it's YOUR own fault.

Live the life he wanted to? How about personal responsibilty -- to your loved ones -- with joy, not hang-dog misery that drags them down. He dreamt of another lifestyle -- of vice sadly.

 

[LukenDC]

Joe, you must live quite a life of purity and virture to pass judgement so freely and flippantly. Better to live a life of endless vice than to have a heart of stone.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Joe, you must live quite a life of purity and virture to pass judgement so freely and flippantly. Better to live a life of endless vice than to have a heart of stone.

So you imply that I have a heart of stone and state that I am being flippant? How "judgemental" of you. If one lives a life of endless vice, what kind of heart is that?? Black, instead of stoney?

No one is all pure, but we are each responsible for our decisions and doing our best, with God's help, to overcome our vices, not kowtow to them or excuse them or blame society.

If my friends have a problem/vice, I help them to overcome it, not decide that it's good for them to have it.

 

[Chattyaholic]

We're here to stay. I suggest you learn to live with it.

Well, then, I suggest you learn to live with the fact there are other people like me who do not condone the gay/lesbian lifestyle.

You think I should be banned for expressing the opinion that I think the gay/lesbian lifestyle is wrong and shows a decline of moral values? I have the right to express my opinion, and I did so without name calling.

But it's perfectly fine for you to call my opinion "garbage" and call me "ignorant"?

 

[KimR]

Well, then, I suggest you learn to live with the fact there are other people like me who do not condone the gay/lesbian lifestyle.

You think I should be banned for expressing the opinion that I think the gay/lesbian lifestyle is wrong and shows a decline of moral values? I have the right to express my opinion, and I did so without name calling.

But it's perfectly fine for you to call my opinion "garbage" and call me "ignorant"?

If someone came up to you and said that they think the Black lifestyle is wrong or the Jewish lifestyle is wrong, how would you react?

 

[Chattyaholic]

If someone came up to you and said that they think the Black lifestyle is wrong or the Jewish lifestyle is wrong, how would you react?

I would disagree with them. BUT! I would NOT call their opinion "garbage" or call THEM "ignorant."

BTW, being Black is a race and being Jewish is a religion. A black person has no CHOICE in their race, just as every other race. Being Jewish IS a choice of religions.

 

[KimR]

I would disagree with them. BUT! I would NOT call their opinion "garbage" or call THEM "ignorant."

BTW, being Black is a race and being Jewish is a religion. A black person has no CHOICE in their race, just as every other race. Being Jewish IS a choice of religions.

OK. I guess maybe Jewish was a bad example. But I'm curious as to why you think the gay lifestyle is wrong? Who is it hurting?

Furthermore, do you believe being gay is a choice? If not, then how can you say it is wrong? If so, then did you make a concious decision to be straight? I know I didn't - it's just what I am and I couldn't imagine someone telling me that I was wrong for loving my DH.

 

[Chattyaholic]

OK. I guess maybe Jewish was a bad example. But I'm curious as to why you think the gay lifestyle is wrong? Who is it hurting?

Furthermore, do you believe being gay is a choice? If not, then how can you say it is wrong? If so, then did you make a concious decision to be straight? I know I didn't - it's just what I am and I couldn't imagine someone telling me that I was wrong for loving my DH.

Kim, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong because I believe in God and He created woman for man, not woman for woman, or man for man.

About gay being a choice, maybe some people are born with something in their brain that makes them attracted to their same sex, I don't know. But acting on that attraction is what I feel is wrong. The same for a married person to be attracted to someone else. They may have those feelings for someone else, but to act on them and have an affair is wrong. Or for someone to be in a store and want something they dont' have the money for, but they steal it. That was a choice they made, and it was a wrong one.

 

[salmoneous]

Kim, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong because I believe in God and He created woman for man, not woman for woman, or man for man.

Just a couple of thoughts.

1. God created Gay people

2. Jesus never mentioned gay people in the Bible, never felt the need to comment on them , but did speak over and over again about loving neighbors, being tolarant of people that were different, of paying attention to what is wrong with your life rather than worring about other people, etc.

3. Regardless of whether or not you feel you can "condone" a lifestyple, people should be allowed to live without discrimination and hatred.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Kim, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong because I believe in God and He created woman for man, not woman for woman, or man for man.

About gay being a choice, maybe some people are born with something in their brain that makes them attracted to their same sex, I don't know. But acting on that attraction is what I feel is wrong.

I haven't been involved in this discussion AT ALL, but am going to take a stab at this. You are entitled to your belief, however, it doesn't mean that others should live thier life according to your beliefs. You are not gay. Wonderful. Neither am I, for that matter, but I do know that I don't speak for everyone and that gay people do exist and are entitled to have a sexually fulfilling life just as straight people are.

And there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle any more than there is a straight lifestyle. Most gay and lesbian people who I have known throughout the years have been more like me than different. How they have sex really doesn't define them as a person. And honestly I haven't really asked exactly how certain things are done just like I don't ask for those details from straight friends (I'm much more shy in real life than I am on the DIS ).

What I don't understand is criticizing what is loving behavior between consenting adults. There are so many bad things happening in the world that we can find fault in that I just really can't fathom finding fault in loving behavior. It's not as if there is a cap on love.

I really, honestly don't get it.

 

[KimR]

Kim, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong because I believe in God and He created woman for man, not woman for woman, or man for man.

About gay being a choice, maybe some people are born with something in their brain that makes them attracted to their same sex, I don't know. But acting on that attraction is what I feel is wrong. The same for a married person to be attracted to someone else. They may have those feelings for someone else, but to act on them and have an affair is wrong. Or for someone to be in a store and want something they dont' have the money for, but they steal it. That was a choice they made, and it was a wrong one.

So, then what is a gay person supposed to do? Remain alone and stay celibate their entire lives instead of sharing their life with someone they love? I don't think it is fair to expect that of someone and I honestly don't think God would expect that either.

 

[KimR]

ITA Tigger&Belle, you explained my feelings much better than I could. (I'm reasonably intelligent, but for some reason have a very difficult time expressing myself in writing!)

 

[Sandy V.]

What I don't understand is criticizing what is loving behavior between consenting adults. There are so many bad things happening in the world that we can find fault in that I just really can't fathom finding fault in loving behavior. It's not as if there is a cap on love.

I really, honestly don't get it.

AMEN!! Very well put.

 

[LukenDC]

Kim, I feel the gay lifestyle is wrong because I believe in God and He created woman for man, not woman for woman, or man for man.

About gay being a choice, maybe some people are born with something in their brain that makes them attracted to their same sex, I don't know. But acting on that attraction is what I feel is wrong. The same for a married person to be attracted to someone else. They may have those feelings for someone else, but to act on them and have an affair is wrong. Or for someone to be in a store and want something they dont' have the money for, but they steal it. That was a choice they made, and it was a wrong one.

But if people are born with a desire for a member of the same sex, then I should think that that is what God wanted for them. I don't believe in God, so I will not argue with you about that. It would be fruitless. I will, however, speak up and say that Christians do not have a lock on morality. Many, many immoral and cruel actions have been committed in the name of religion. As I have said before, the Bible has been used to justify the subjugation of women, anti-Semitism, slavery, capital punishment for minors, attacks on freedom of speech, persecution of religious minorities (including Christian sects), and now gays and lesbians. Clearly the Bible has been a convient weapon for those who want to find affirmation for their own prejudices. I find it interesting that conservative Christians are quick to use Leviticus to condemn homosexuals when they conveniently ignore the many wacky dietary restictions in Leviticus.

There are many wonderful people in this world who are religious, including homosexuals. I do not mean to pan all Christians. But I will speak out when fundamentalists attempt to use religion to hurt, persecute, and oppress. That is just wrong.

 

[simpilotswife]

Once again I'll post this question for all of the heterosexual holier-than-thou being-gay-is-horrible types....

If you were in a world where being gay was the norm and being a heterosexual was against your religion, could you choose to have homosexual sex? Would you be able to make yourself be attracted to a same sex partner?

 

[simpilotswife]

Marriage is between a man and a women.

Depending on which dictionary and definition number you read. This is Merriam-Webster's definition....

Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: 'mer-ij, 'ma-rij
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : WEDLOCK c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry -- J. T. Shawcross>

 

[Tigger&Belle]

ITA Tigger&Belle, you explained my feelings much better than I could. (I'm reasonably intelligent, but for some reason have a very difficult time expressing myself in writing!)

Trust me, my brain is only barely working! I'm on medication which makes me unable to spell and makes it harder than normal to formulate thoughts, so I'm glad I made sense! And in my unmedicated state I'm bad enough, so this is tough!

 

[UrsulasMyHero]

Once again I'll post this question for all of the heterosexual holier-than-thou being-gay-is-horrible types....

If you were in a world where being gay was the norm and being a heterosexual was against your religion, could you choose to have homosexual sex? Would you be able to make yourself be attracted to a same sex partner?

No they couldn't because that wouldn't be right, that would be going against how they were made. Fully validating your argument, so they're not answering.

Some of the narrow mindedness I've seen exhibited in this thread just gives me very little hope for the world. I've seen people bashed for loving, caring and nurturing. Dang if that isn't a hoot.

Folks, LOVE is what most people strive for. WHO really cares what other people do (Mind you 2(or more) consenting adults ) in their bedrooms. Really is it anyone's business but their own?

If it isn't your cup of tea, so be it. But in the words of a T-shirt I once read "God don't make no junk." If you truly believe that there is a higher power, and that s/he placed us all here, then we are all equal in his/her eyes.

Get some freaking tolerance people. Some of you don't have issues, you have VOLUMES!