Covid Fatigue

[damo]

It’s really like poor parenting. The kid whines and makes a great, big, noisy fuss, the parent relents and gives in. So much of what happens in society these days is like bad parenting. Really discouraging.

Or it could be like really poor parenting when the kid doesn't eat all their dinner and the parents says that they can't watch tv for a month. The punishment really has nothing to do with the behaviour.

 

[Jrb1979]

Or it could be like really poor parenting when the kid doesn't eat all their dinner and the parents says that they can't watch tv for a month. The punishment really has nothing to do with the behaviour.

Your example is the way this should have been handled from the beginning. I still maintain they need to stop catering to the pushback. These are the rules that are implemented and that's that. With the way they are catering to pushback they might as well not have any restrictions. Then again maybe I can gather up all the seasonal campers in Ontario and we can whine about campgrounds closed. Might have a chance for them to change that too. Golfers should to the same. Hey it works for everyone else.

 

[quandrea]

Or it could be like really poor parenting when the kid doesn't eat all their dinner and the parents says that they can't watch tv for a month. The punishment really has nothing to do with the behaviour.

Very true.

 

[damo]

Your example is the way this should have been handled from the beginning. I still maintain they need to stop catering to the pushback. These are the rules that are implemented and that's that. With the way they are catering to pushback they might as well not have any restrictions. Then again maybe I can gather up all the seasonal campers in Ontario and we can whine about campgrounds closed. Might have a chance for them to change that too. Golfers should to the same. Hey it works for everyone else.

I totally agree with you....in some cases. However, I don't think people should sit blindly by when some restrictions are absolutely crazy. If we can complain when there aren't enough and proper restrictions, we should complain when they are ineffective or excessive. That's what democracy is all about.

 

[MoreTravels]

I totally agree with you....in some cases. However, I don't think people should sit blindly by when some restrictions are absolutely crazy. If we can complain when there aren't enough and proper restrictions, we should complain when they are ineffective or excessive. That's what democracy is all about.

There is a limit on democracy. When one's action is affecting the life survival of another in ICU, that is not called freedom. It is called narcissism. COVID is new. There is "no evidence" on a lot of things. Absence of evidence is NOT the same as evidence of absence. So to call something "ineffective".... you cannot prove it either way. I would err on the side of caution.

You should pass by a park playground equipment these days and have a look yourself. It is not uncommon to see 3-5 kids from different families standing on top of a slide or merry-go-round to talk to each other. They kids love to play with other kid strangers. It is also very common to see parents of those kids chatting in close proximity with different families while waiting for their kids. Most important of all, most of those people do not wear masks because they consider themselves exercising in the park. So please don't tell me there is no or very low risk.

I personally think the doctors should do a follow-up contact tracing on playground attendees to prove it once and for all. It would not be hard. Install QR code on the equipments. All parents need to scan the QR codes and we will see how many kids / families get sick from using that particular equipment.

 

[damo]

There is a limit on democracy. When one's action is affecting the life survival of another in ICU, that is not called freedom. It is called narcissism. COVID is new. There is "no evidence" on a lot of things. Absence of evidence is NOT the same as evidence of absence. So to call something "ineffective".... you cannot prove it either way. I would err on the side of caution.

You should pass by a park playground equipment these days and have a look yourself. It is not uncommon to see 3-5 kids from different families standing on top of a slide or merry-go-round to talk to each other. They kids love to play with other kid strangers. It is also very common to see parents of those kids chatting in close proximity with different families while waiting for their kids. Most important of all, most of those people do not wear masks because they consider themselves exercising in the park. So please don't tell me there is no or very low risk.

I personally think the doctors should do a follow-up contact tracing on playground attendees to prove it once and for all. It would not be hard. Install QR code on the equipments. All parents need to scan the QR codes and we will see how many kids / families get sick from using that particular equipment.

I'll take the word of epidemiologists...

"Andrew Morris, an infectious-disease physician at Toronto’s University Health Network who sits on Ontario’s science table, called the government’s announcement “mind-boggling,” and said it missed the mark entirely. Dr. Morris said the government needed to put in place stronger protections for essential workers, including enhanced paid sick leave, and shut down more workplaces. He said the move to limit outdoor recreational activities was a “total repudiation of science.”"

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...s-of-more-than-15000-daily-cases-overwhelmed/
"
Infectious diseases specialist at Trillium Health Partners Dr. Sumon Chakrabarti says shutting down outdoor recreational spaces is not the right move to take.

“Right now unfortunately, apart from vaccination and, you know, some stuff in workplaces, there's not a lot of levers left to pull. And you know what you have to do is not make things worse and by, you know, driving people indoors, which is what these new rules will do, it's actually going to make the problem worse,” Chakrabarti told CP24 on Saturday morning."

https://www.cp24.com/news/premier-f...-to-close-playgrounds-amid-backlash-1.5391532
These restrictions are supposed to be about putting limits on the activities and things that are fuelling the pandemic, not on eliminating everything where there is any minute chance of catching the disease.

 

[MoreTravels]

https://howardisms.com/evidence-based-medicine/levels-of-evidence/

Those are only Level 5 evidence, known as "expert opinions". I would only trust something around Level 1 or 2.

I would like to remind people that this time last year, the medical experts were telling us masks are not necessary because the virus not airborne. Those opinions have changed in short 6 months later. The initial opinions were also expert opinions from medical specialists too.


This was just out!
Experts find more evidence COVID-19 is airborne, that we need to rethink indoor spaces

https://globalnews.ca/news/7764859/covid-19-airborne-evidence-indoor-spaces/
I would still listen to medical experts. At the same time, I would do more than what they recommend. I consider what they recommend as a "minimum" and not a "maximum". You see, now we think the virus is airborne and social distance is probably not enough. We might need high grade medical masks / double masks / air HEPA filter to stop it. This was not the opinion of most medical experts this time last year. I don't want to regret letting my kids playing on the playground equipment now, only to find out one year from now, new evidence shows.... that would be a nightmare to any parent.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'll take the word of epidemiologists...

"Andrew Morris, an infectious-disease physician at Toronto’s University Health Network who sits on Ontario’s science table, called the government’s announcement “mind-boggling,” and said it missed the mark entirely. Dr. Morris said the government needed to put in place stronger protections for essential workers, including enhanced paid sick leave, and shut down more workplaces. He said the move to limit outdoor recreational activities was a “total repudiation of science.”"

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...s-of-more-than-15000-daily-cases-overwhelmed/
"
Infectious diseases specialist at Trillium Health Partners Dr. Sumon Chakrabarti says shutting down outdoor recreational spaces is not the right move to take.

“Right now unfortunately, apart from vaccination and, you know, some stuff in workplaces, there's not a lot of levers left to pull. And you know what you have to do is not make things worse and by, you know, driving people indoors, which is what these new rules will do, it's actually going to make the problem worse,” Chakrabarti told CP24 on Saturday morning."

https://www.cp24.com/news/premier-f...-to-close-playgrounds-amid-backlash-1.5391532
These restrictions are supposed to be about putting limits on the activities and things that are fuelling the pandemic, not on eliminating everything where there is any minute chance of catching the disease.

I agree with what they are saying and its what should have happened. They were going to shutdown all construction and limit factories/warehouses to only those that involve essential items. The lobbyists for those places pushed back and said no. Again they punish the rest of us for their actions.