Covid And The Rest of Us

[TLSnell1981]

Throwing it out shouldn't be done unless it's a last resort or there is issues with the vaccine like a temperature issue (hopefully that doesn't happen too much). Too much control is a problem but more places it's the opposite that there is no clear plan what to do so one place may choose to do something and another place may choose to do the opposite. I'm not sure what waste means but reading people's stories there doesn't seem to be one meaning used for all. If you have vials in the refrigerator couldn't you just say you have leftover and don't want it to go to waste? But would it really go to waste? That seems to be the question.

Pfizer must be room temp before dilution and only for two hours. Unused diluted vials must be tossed after six hours. Not using every dose is a waste. IMO

It is very important to show up for appointments and arrive ON TIME.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Pfizer must be room temp before dilution and only for two hours. Unused diluted vials must be tossed after six hours. Not using every dose is a waste. IMO

It is very important to show up for appointments and arrive ON TIME.

I'm not sure anyone is saying otherwise, at least from all the threads I've read. It seems to be where/who that dose is used for and a point being made if others should have been given the dose instead. I don't think any of us really think they should just be thrown away absolutely not. But I can see the point of having a plan in place for these situations of when you'll have left over. If the plan is they are given the authority to give to their family and the relatives of the employees that's the plan. But if the plan should have been to give to others, that really should have been done. And I see from other threads that at least sometimes is the case with some states. Looks like the Irish government is taking this as an opportunity to plainly say what to do the next time it happens.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

I believe many athletes would gladly sign a waiver to participate in the Olympics. Many of them get one shot to complete in them and would sign whatever you wanted them to in order to compete. Here in NY state the governor still has not made a decision on what he deems high risk sports. My senior son plays 3 high risk sports (football, basketball and lacrosse). We have no idea if he will play any of these sports his senior year. I would be willing to sign a waiver to allow him to play. I understand the risks associated with playing but again the stats do not support a continued standstill. There are very few cases of kids contracting Covid through sports competition. Most of the cases come from parties and get togethers.

Do you think the countries will let them though? I know last year entire countries were saying they wouldn't send their athletes to Japan but I'm sure at least some of them wanted to go. A waiver is a good idea and you make a good point about cases. Haven't they done these "bubbles" with professional sports too? But maybe the amount of athletes is just so many. I just don't know if entire countries will be on board with that. I really want the Olympics. I know the athletes time is important for their relatively short careers and I think many of us would really like that distraction!

 

[ronandannette]

It does depends on what a place means by wasting to me at least. In CA they had an issue where a temperature sensor went off but wasn't found out until very late. They had 2-4hrs left. That is way different IMO if you have 1-3+ days to figure it out.

One of the more rural counties in my state (they have about 40K residents in the county) had leftover vaccine after using it for their healthcare workers and whatever LTC that were not covered by the government contract. They called the state to ask what to do. The state's guidance had, according to that county, changed several times. They said "hey we don't want it to go to waste" and they went ahead and vaccinated 100 teachers of their school district. Teachers are not eligible yet. The county did the teachers as opposed to others in the next phase because of students returning to school soon. However, the state health director said he was fine with it so long as places are checking their surrounding counties to see if they need it. I didn't get the impression the state health director wanted this to happen too often but rather it's a reasonable thing so long as you're looking out for each other. In my state they are using a hub and spoke distribution process with those several distribution sites around the state so using those should help on checking surrounding counties rather than trying to call across the state to find someplace eligible.

To me a lot of this vaccine stuff is "looking after your neighbor" kind of thing. I know the usage of priority groups and who is in the priority group in different places is controversial. In my mind there's room for improvement on looking out for each other. Looking out for each other means different things to different people. To me it means at least try to find people in a reasonable distance that are eligible instead of a person going in for groceries and walking out with a vaccine (true story happened in D.C.) By the time general population gets to it it will be less necessary to do this. In my state general population is already considered first come first serve.

*A caveat because we are about to have a new president I am only speaking about things such that they are now. I don't know if any of this will change in the near future.

Totally different situation. Throughout Canada vaccine is in such short supply (many places are completely out now and waiting for delayed re-supply from Pfizer), we are talking about the residual product left at the bottom of the bottles, not 100's of doses in any given place. In this specific example you've used, I'd say more work on logistics and planning is required if their estimates are so far out, or better training for the vaccinators so that so many excess doses aren't thawed and diluted unnecessarily.

 

[ronandannette]

UPDATE

The Irish Health Department has released a statement that says they issued guidelines for this scenario on 12 January, 4 days AFTER this issue occurred. Vaccination centres should establish standby lists of frontline healthcare workers later in the sequence order.

They should be available at short notice and are to be randomly selected from the lists for vaccination in the event that frontline healthcare staff earlier in the sequence order do not attend or cannot receive the vaccine.

Sounds like a sensible approach!

Your news, not the positive cases, but just that there are sports competitions happening, makes me really hope the Olympics happen! I'm still holding out for hope but I'm not sure in 6 months time the world will feel comfortable enough to send their athletes. As I understand it if it doesn't happen this year it won't happen until the next time meaning no more delays.

The IOC has asked governments world-wide to make Olympic athletes a special, high-priority group for vaccination. The Chef de Mission of the Canadian Olympic team has made a formal request to the federal government to mandate the provinces to prioritize vaccinations for Olympic athletes so they are prepared for Japan, as well as to facilitate their training outside Canada. So far there has been no Canadian response that I know of. As much as we all love the Olympics, I doubt there's much stomach for fast-tracking their vaccinations ahead of our vulnerable populations.
Olympic athletes should get priority access to coronavirus vaccines, IOC's Dick Pound says | CBC Sports

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Totally different situation. Throughout Canada vaccine is in such short supply (many places are completely out now and waiting for delayed re-supply from Pfizer), we are talking about the residual product left at the bottom of the bottles, not 100's of doses in any given place.

I was just giving an example where I knew in my state they had leftover doses because that's the only such situation I know of for my state in particular. I then went on to explain other situations throughout my comments (CA, person walks in getting groceries but out with a vaccine, Walgreens situation, etc). I wasn't attempting to equate my example to anything else but to give one where they had doses, called up the state and actually asked what can we do with it rather than deciding on the fly even though the state's guidance had changed several times over a short time period.

Most of the U.S. (and it would appear elsewhere) don't seem to have these plans for when xyz occurs. If it's residual amount in a vial or whole vials you still should know what should and shouldn't be done and these "scandals" occur because of that unknown. According to the poster Ireland now has made it known you can this priority list of lower and higher tiers work off of that. Residual amounts or not that's what apparently they want them to do with it at the moment. So long as people know what they are supposed to do by their governing bodies instead of guess then that takes the initial anger out at least IMO.

In the U.S. the vaccine is in short supply too for many places, which is why this becomes such an issue over who actually got the dose. Some people would be outraged at the very thought of some 20 year old cashier getting the vaccine simply because of leftover amounts over their 85 year old mother..that sort of conversation has occurred on other threads. If a place is told that's fine to do at least they can say they went off of that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The IOC has asked governments world-wide to make Olympic athletes a special, high-priority group for vaccination. The Chef de Mission of the Canadian Olympic team has made a formal request to the federal government to mandate the provinces to prioritize vaccinations for Olympic athletes so they are prepared for Japan, as well as to facilitate their training outside Canada. So far there has been no Canadian response that I know of. As much as we all love the Olympics, I doubt there's much stomach for fast-tracking their vaccinations ahead of our vulnerable populations.
Olympic athletes should get priority access to coronavirus vaccines, IOC's Dick Pound says | CBC Sports

I hadn't thought about the Olympics in a while but this discussion on it brought that back to what are they going to do? I think it's a strong possibly of just canceling it.

Thanks for that link, I hadn't even considered priority based on them being athletes not sure why but I get them wanting it and I get how that is probably not a popular priority right now with so much death toll out there

 

[ronandannette]

I hadn't thought about the Olympics in a while but this discussion on it brought that back to what are they going to do? I think it's a strong possibly of just canceling it.

Thanks for that link, I hadn't even considered priority based on them being athletes not sure why but I get them wanting it and I get how that is probably not a popular priority right now with so much death toll out there

One thing that's interesting is that we haven't really heard a peep about politicians, celebrities, pro athletes and the mega-rich jumping vaccine queue. Hard to believe it's not happening. Is there any talk of it down your way? Is vaccine available for private purchase in the States?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

One thing that's interesting is that we haven't really heard a peep about politicians, celebrities, pro athletes and the mega-rich jumping vaccine queue. Hard to believe it's not happening. Is there any talk of it down your way? Is vaccine available for private purchase in the States?

There has been vaccinating people "critical to government" including Congress. Some people I think have more line jumped while others I can see the case for being made why so and so should get it because they are a governing body but optics-wise it still won't look the best and then at times their spouses are getting it too.

My governor has gotten it and she said a few other top officials will get early vaccinations "to ensure the government can continue to function". As per usual that devolved into a political spat in my state but the governors or local officials who I have seen get it from news stories are from both party lines throughout the U.S. so not sure that has as much to do with political party. The more outspoken mayor on the other side of the state line has also gotten his vaccine. There have been a few governors I believe choose not to get the vaccine though I can't find news stories about it so I may be thinking wrong on that.

It's not for private purchase (though on another thread that is an idea floated about) but some are able to get it through their connections with some being called to get a vaccine because they are a relative of so and so and that has not gone over well.

I really haven't kept up and up on celebrities, athletes or uber rich but I can believe it happening though maybe not as egregiously as we assume it could be..it's probably hush hush right now for that. The news stories I've read have more been governmental officials and sometimes their spouses (which the general public is usually not available for a spouse to get it if the other qualifies for it) or relatives of either workers at a specific place or person physically administering the vaccine.

 

[bcwife76]

Sounds like a sensible approach!

The IOC has asked governments world-wide to make Olympic athletes a special, high-priority group for vaccination. The Chef de Mission of the Canadian Olympic team has made a formal request to the federal government to mandate the provinces to prioritize vaccinations for Olympic athletes so they are prepared for Japan, as well as to facilitate their training outside Canada. So far there has been no Canadian response that I know of. As much as we all love the Olympics, I doubt there's much stomach for fast-tracking their vaccinations ahead of our vulnerable populations.
Olympic athletes should get priority access to coronavirus vaccines, IOC's Dick Pound says | CBC Sports

Considering the already-slow roll out of our vaccines in Canada and now the Pfizer delay until mid February I am 100% against this. Allowing the Olympics to go ahead in 2022 is completely foolish IMO (yes I know others feel differently), just look at what is happening re: the Australian Open so far.

 

[ronandannette]

Considering the already-slow roll out of our vaccines in Canada and now the Pfizer delay until mid February I am 100% against this. Allowing the Olympics to go ahead in 2022 is completely foolish IMO (yes I know others feel differently), just look at what is happening re: the Australian Open so far.

2022 is a looooong time from now. Hopefully the entire world will be in a different state then. I'm not in favor of elite athletes getting vaccinated now just so they can continue their international training regimens either.

 

[bcwife76]

2022 is a looooong time from now. Hopefully the entire world will be in a different state then. I'm not in favor of elite athletes getting vaccinated now just so they can continue their international training regimens either.

OK I thought you were talking about the 2020 Olympics (that are now supposedly going ahead in 2021 in Tokyo). If it's the 2022 Olympics then yes, oops, we just over a year til they open. I'm still not pleased with athletes jumping the line, but like you said it's a whole year+ away!

 

[lanejudy]

My governor has gotten it and she said a few other top officials will get early vaccinations "to ensure the government can continue to function".

And just to show differences in the states -- my governor has said he will wait until his age group rolls around. The only priority here has been "frontline" healthcare workers and residents/staff at senior living facilities (1st was skilled nursing care, then assisted living and independent living facilities). Next week we move to age brackets starting with those age 75+. No other priorities until we get through age 65+, which isn't expected until spring. We've received considerably fewer doses that expected. I don't see Olympic athletes getting any sort of priority here, though honestly I'm not sure if we have anyone who might be prospective competitors for the (now delayed) 2020 summer games.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And just to show differences in the states -- my governor has said he will wait until his age group rolls around. The only priority here has been "frontline" healthcare workers and residents/staff at senior living facilities (1st was skilled nursing care, then assisted living and independent living facilities). Next week we move to age brackets starting with those age 75+. No other priorities until we get through age 65+, which isn't expected until spring. We've received considerably fewer doses that expected. I don't see Olympic athletes getting any sort of priority here, though honestly I'm not sure if we have anyone who might be prospective competitors for the (now delayed) 2020 summer games.

Which state are you in? Like I said I remember hearing about some governors choosing not to but I couldn't find the stories easy enough to be confident I was remembering correctly.

Right now the only people in my state are healthcare workers and LTC (and that blip with the teachers). We don't have age 75+. Next up in Phase 2 is just 65+ but that's the only age consideration in the phases except to say 16+ since it's only approved for usage to that age, with Phase 2 it's also high critical workers (of varying industries) and congregate settings. There is a timeline my governor gave but honestly I'm not going to pay much attention to it. I think it just angers people because they see some other state expected to be done faster, or if that timeline doesn't end up working out you've got even more frustrated people. Based on people's patience level I'm wondering if some heads won't explode here soon because most of the states' next phases include so much of their population the timelines are usually a few months worth.

I agree on Olympics and priority, I'd love to see it, I was missing it last year but as a globe we're just not far enough into vaccinations. That waiver idea I could see I'm just not sure we're far enough down of people having protection for that to be seen ethically okay. I'm wondering just how long are they going to wait before they make a public decision either way.

 

[NFLDERS]

One thing that's interesting is that we haven't really heard a peep about politicians, celebrities, pro athletes and the mega-rich jumping vaccine queue. Hard to believe it's not happening. Is there any talk of it down your way? Is vaccine available for private purchase in the States?

I'd heard of Canadian Snowbirds in Canada whom returned to Florida (purposely to receive the vaccine) via helicopter from Canada to Buffalo N. Y. where their personal vehicle which had been shipped was available for the drive to Florida.

Then queuing up (I believe paying to jump the queue) while a Veteran whom HAS to wait his turn was reported to be watching one site from his home across the street.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'd heard of Canadian Snowbirds in Florida queuing up and I think paying to jump the queue. All the while a Veteran whom HAS to wait his turn was reported to be watching from across the street.

Oh yeah you're right about that FL is having out of state and out of country sign up though I don't know that they've had to pay people the vaccine is free here so maybe they are paying someone to add them to a list? Arizona also said they would open it up to Canadian snowbirds. All of these economic/tourism driven. I don't know that either of those states advised a fee for out of country but I may just not remember reading that.

 

[NFLDERS]

Oh yeah you're right about that FL is having out of state and out of country sign up though I don't know that they've had to pay people the vaccine is free here so maybe they are paying someone to add them to a list? Arizona also said they would open it up to Canadian snowbirds. All of these economic/tourism driven. I don't know that either of those states advised a fee for out of country but I may just not remember reading that.

I meant to add literally hear(d) they fly over our home ever trip! You're right I remember now, it was free and tourism driven.

 

[Karin1984]

Apparently we (NL) are the first in Europe to start vaccinating the people with mental disabilities. So yay!
22,5% infections less than last week, that's also yay!
% positive tests went from 12,9 to 11,7% also yay!
The delays at Pfizer will not really effect NL, yay!
Vaccinating GPs will start this week, yay!

But unfortunately, we will probably get a curfew later this week, tomorrow extra press conference. Boo.
Schools will definitely not reopen next week. Boo.
We had a protest last week, where a 'doctor' said: "There is no corona anymore, doctors are getting 20.000 euro per patient when they claim they have corona." Our doctor's union says 'we don't know this man and we don't want to have anything to do with what he said.' Boo.
The protest was organized by some shady characters. And as protests in NL sometimes go: It also attracts other people. Some people protested the measures, others who say Vaccin was murder, and some people with references to the storming of the Capitol in the US last week. Boo.

 

[NFLDERS]

Our Toronto, Ontario Covid19 numbers are finally trending downward.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Apparently we (NL) are the first in Europe to start vaccinating the people with mental disabilities. So yay!
22,5% infections less than last week, that's also yay!
% positive tests went from 12,9 to 11,7% also yay!
The delays at Pfizer will not really effect NL, yay!
Vaccinating GPs will start this week, yay!

These are all good news!!

Mental disabilities--question on this. Is this for people in general who have these or only for people in facilities getting active treatment for them?