Could not believe it, but there were dogs on our bus!

[bavaria]

Ok, Missy Moderator! (Can I call you that? )

You brought up wire haired fox terriers and service animals in the same ramble.

PM arriving from me in 38 seconds!

 

[goofy4tink]

Ok, Missy Moderator! (Can I call you that? )

You brought up wire haired fox terriers and service animals in the same ramble.

PM arriving from me in 38 seconds!

Don't you have some liquor filled chocolates or something to buy???? Sheesh. Yes, got the PM. Issue settled. Love ya...mean it!!!


Man...the aggravations I put up with around here!!

 

[robinb]

ONE THOUSAND PERCENT CORRECT!!!!!! The service dog in our family has been through rigorous training, and is certified. He has a uniform that he wears when he is working. It states for people not to approach and pet him. CLEARLY IDENTIFIES him as a working animal.

The ADA makes absolutely no concessions for people that are emotionally attached to their animals.

Sorry folks for the tone of my post. This is very personal to us. When you see a sick child struggling and RELYING ON A DOG, and someone just carting a dog around a stroller in everyone's face and expect it to be treated like a child??!! OK, off my soapbox. I have to leave this forum. I'm too upset.

Donna, I really don't mean to upset you more, but I am puzzled by your post. Only people who spend $30K on a "certified" dog are allowed for it to be called a "service animal"? You don't think that lesser animals than your own can be relied on by a sick child? What about service dogs for autistic kids? Or dogs for kids with anxiety issues? Do all dogs have to be "certified" to meet your approval? And then I have to ask, certified by who? The organization you just gave $30K to?

I have a great amount of respect for working dogs and the people who train them. I also have NO DOUBT that your own dog is a service animal. However, just like people have hidden disabilities that require a wheelchair while the rest of the world thinks they are fakers, there are disabilities that require a service animal that may not fit your very narrow definition of "certified" service animal wearing a "uniform". FWIW, service dog vests like this

can be bought very easily online so even that is not a true indication.

I guess all I'm saying is to give all dogs the benefit of the doubt when they are "working" at WDW. I would rather err on the side of caution and treat the person and the dog with respect than to have them experience what you and your son experienced at Universal, n'est ce pas?

 

[Donna3271]

Donna, I really don't mean to upset you more, but I am puzzled by your post. Only people who spend $30K on a "certified" dog are allowed for it to be called a "service animal"? You don't think that lesser animals than your own can be relied on by a sick child? What about service dogs for autistic kids? Or dogs for kids with anxiety issues? Do all dogs have to be "certified" to meet your approval? And then I have to ask, certified by who? The organization you just gave $30K to?

I have a great amount of respect for working dogs and the people who train them. I also have NO DOUBT that your own dog is a service animal. However, just like people have hidden disabilities that require a wheelchair while the rest of the world thinks they are fakers, there are disabilities that require a service animal that may not fit your very narrow definition of "certified" service animal wearing a "uniform". FWIW, service dog vests like this

can be bought very easily online so even that is not a true indication.

I guess all I'm saying is to give all dogs the benefit of the doubt when they are "working" at WDW. I would rather err on the side of caution and treat the person and the dog with respect than to have them experience what you and your son experienced at Universal, n'est ce pas?

Êtes-vous sérieux? Je parle anglais, français et italien.

First off, the dog was provided GRATIS from Milk Bone (sans $25 application fee, and $100 training fee). We were on a long waiting list. These dogs go through extensive training, and quite frankly, YES, THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO OTHER PETS. I am a dog owner myself. And trust me, there is a marked difference. BTW, my sister's daughter is non-verbal autistic, so trust me, we have our share of heart ache here.

And once again, I reiterate my "narrow definition", only Service Dogs can not be discriminated against by law. Otherwise, every Tom Dick and Harry would be dragging their animals everywhere at the inconvenience of the general public.

Bonne journée!

 

[bavaria]

I don't understand the emotion or the vehemence I suppose.

This may be an opportunity to educate those who are unaware that many breeds (and species) can perform many services.

While the first guide dogs were officially trained in Germany, usually using what we call Shepherds and the rest of the world calls 'German Shepherds', other breeds were trained and are trained to perform a variety of services.

Our esteemed moderator made reference to wire haired fox terriers. While there is possibly no dog more annoying than a poorly trained or untrained Foxy, well-trained ones can become excellent service animals for at least one function.

Many readers here assume that because they saw a non-traditional breed (or what is non-traditional in their limited experience) that it cannot be a service dog. That is simply not the case. Other readers don't realise that service animals can provide a variety of functions, and that particular breeds are used for very specific roles, due to their unique abilities.

I have no opinion on the dogs in question, other than to say that even if someone did 'find out their story', it really is nobody's business, other than to know if the dog may or may not be permitted on board a bus.

And on a final note, when DISworld becomes too much drama for me, I am always grateful that in my parallel universe we have EuropaPark, the German equivalent of WDW. Dogs are welcomed for a day in the park, although they are requested not to ride the attractions (just as well trained dogs are welcomed in almost every place in Germany). I have never seen any drama surrounding this invitation at all. (well, I correct myself - the only drama I ever saw/read was right here on this website from an American who brought her dog to a German airport to meet her American family.... )

 

[bavaria]

I would also like to clarify for Missy Moderator (that does have a nice ring to it! ) and other readers that I have no dog in this particular race. I posted about dogs/cats on airplanes in response to someone who was upset about a dog on the bus, so that they would understand the rules in place on US carriers (I assumed that our esteemed moderator didn't want me to link to the classic 'Cats on a Plane' thread, so just listed the rules)

My post about non-traditional dogs was in general response to many threads I have read here over the years, where readers say that there was 'no way' that a dog could have been a service animal, because it wasn't a Shepherd, or a lab, or a retriever.

One of the most ignorant threads I have ever read here was on that subject (and one of the only times when I saw Canadian Guy almost lose his cool) People were making some very ugly comments about various illnesses and showing their ignorance. Many of us know that service animals can perform roles for people with seizures, or autism, or allergies, or a host of other scenarios. But clearly many other readers do not know this, and it may help for them to better understand if we can explain that there are different breeds performing different roles, and that a non-traditional dog may well still be a service animal.

My only opinion on the particular dogs in question is that if they were not there to perform a particular role it wasn't most likely the best decision for the welfare of the dogs. We all know how stressful and overwhelming a day at the parks can be; it is compounded for an animal who is not trained to deal with such situations.

 

[truck1]

I have been told, on several occasions that animals are not allowed on the buses. If, and that's a big if, these were service animals, then fine....sort of. If someone has to have a service animal with them, then they had best have the appropriate documentation to show. And if it had been me getting on that bus, I would have questioned the driver about it..right then and there. Then, I would have written to Disney stating my displeasure about the situation.
While I completely understand the need for service animals, I truly feel that we are getting carried away with that whole thing. It sometimes seems that just about anyone can figure out a way to make their beloved pet into a 'service animal'..and pretty soon it's about 'their right's vs everyone else's. Heaven forbid my needs be considered when someone else's need for their dog to be there is considered. Perhaps there is a child with a morbid fear of dogs on that bus, perhaps there is someone with an allergy, whatever....if someone has to have that animal then perhaps they need to make alternative plans for transport.

As a former driver for Disney,Ive seen several sevice dogs, and even a service monkey.The service dogs Ive seen, all had a vest or a harness that states that they were a working dog. The one time I had to board one, I talked to the guests about it, more for my own edification then anything else, and put them on last.(rather than put them in the back of the bus in the ADA seats.) There was a simple reason for that. When the dog and its owner,( the family held the very first seat for the member with the dog) boarded, the dog could actually lay down across the front line, and didnt interfere with anyone.Not that they would. Plus they were going to the first stop. I cant speak for all of the drivers, but there is a lot of forgotten information that is no longer be given out in training, plus the penalty for doing certain things. Strollers were my favorite headache. Alot of guests thought that because jr was alseep, they could carry one on, with the child still strapped in it. Guests thought they could get away with the just strap it in like a wheelchair. Unfortunatly the straps werent designed for strollers.And then the threats and fun started. People dont understand that if the bus is involved in an accident, its the driver who is ultimately responsible. Why this particular driver let theses people on with 2 "normal" dogs(lack of a better term) is beyond me.Especially since at the time and I doubt it has changed, there is a no animal policy for transportation.

We were at disney last april and were at the lion king show.. and low and behold this lady with a pink stroller shows up and gets a special seat right in front of us.. she was getting special treatment. Just thought maybe she had special needs or the baby in the stroller was handicapped... I kinda took a quick peek in the stroller .. just curious.. two dogs..kinda shocked.. i turned to my wife and kids and whispered to the that the kid in that strollerer was the ugliest kid ive ever seen... we all laughed pretty good... I was i little wierded out by these people.. we would love to find out what thier deal is.. does anybody know?

Dont know what the deal is, and for the life of me I cant figure out how they are allowed in the park. Theres 2 kennels. 1 at the TTC and the other is at Fort Wilderness.
The one and only reason I can think of, is that they are related to or are members of one of the "Ruling Families" (One of the Disneys for example) But on the other hand if they were, theyd be under escort from just about everyone wearing a tie and jacket,that still had a job with Disney.

 

[SandrA9810]

Well I think every one has clearly noted that these two pampered dogs are not providing any sort of service. Some one just feels they're more special.

And I've seen quite a few different breeds of service dogs. And a lot more dogs are getting used as service animals, every so often animal planet does a thing on them. But there's dogs being used for diabetes, because they can smell the change in blood sugar long before the person realizes there's a problem. I saw a lady using st benards as a service dog, because they're large enough for her to kneel down and lean over when she's working in the garden, and they know when she's about to pass out. They really do come in all shapes and sizes.

But some one thinking that their dogs are children and deserve the same rights are just a little cooky in the head... and need a bit more than a "service pet". I think I've might've seen one of those dogs at the Beach club pool one afternoon. It clearly states no animals near the pool area. I looked closely to see if the dog had anything identifying it, and it wasn't "working" because the lady would let any one come up and pet it and play with it. I saw a manager walking by, and she just said "yeah, I know it's there, it's fine." Made it seem like they've already talked with them before.

On another note, I was at the World of Disney store, and some lady was grumpy and ticked off at something and demanding a manager. She was holding a dog in her arms, with just a frilly little collar and leash. The manager came out, and the first thing he said "is that a service animal?" The lady said no, and he replied, "well I can't help you till you take the dog outside".

 

[Gary M]

Saw on TV a few years ago, where Oprah was staying in a suite at GF and had her dogs with her.

 

[robinb]

I don't understand the emotion or the vehemence I suppose.

I don't get it either.

This may be an opportunity to educate those who are unaware that many breeds (and species) can perform many services.

My eyes were opened a couple years ago on this thread by kandeebunny and her chihuahua Tinkerbelle: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1299319. Before that thread I didn't know that a tiny dog like that could help a person and be a service dog. Boy, was I wrong! Luckily, kandeebunny and ducklite (blast from the past!) set me straight gently. After that, I think to myself "Size matters not!" in my best internal Star Wars Yoda voice when I hear about a tiny service dog.

 

[SueM in MN]

One time in Disney I saw a person carrying a tiny dog with a 'service animal' vest on it- I did go up and ask what type of service dog this could possibly have been( I asked politely) and was told it's for anxiety. Little did I know that I could have brought my own small dog along to calm my own travel anxieties and stresses.

Actually, "Emotional Support Dogs" are not covered by the ADA, so they do not have the same legal standing that a service dog that does tasks for someone with a disability does. Tasks can vary, depending on what the person needs. Some people with anxiety may have dogs that alert them when their heart rate or some other parameter is getting too high. That is a task. Someone who says they need to pet their dog to relieve anxiety does not have a dog performing a task for them and would not be covered under the ADA currently.
"Emotional Support Dogs" are allowed on airplanes (Air travel is covered by the Air Traffic Carriers Act, not the ADA, and they do have some different safety needs - you would not want am emotionally upset customer being out of control 10,000 feet in the air).

There are no requirements under the ADA that Service Dogs be certified, wear any special identification or vest or be certified. They must be well trained and well behaved. If they are not, they may be asked to leave. There have been other posts about this same group - even though I know some people with small Yorkie dog-type service dogs, from what I have read, these dogs are not service dogs because they are not well trained and were disrupting shows/attractions by braking and yelping.

Some people feel that Service Dogs should be required to be certified or to wear a vest or other item to show they are working. The problem with that is that those things are easily bought on the internet and someone with a 'fake' service dog would be as likely to have those things as a person with a real one.

 

[bavaria]

I don't get it either.


My eyes were opened a couple years ago on this thread by kandeebunny and her chihuahua Tinkerbelle: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1299319. Before that thread I didn't know that a tiny dog like that could help a person and be a service dog. Boy, was I wrong! Luckily, kandeebunny and ducklite (blast from the past!) set me straight gently. After that, I think to myself "Size matters not!" in my best internal Star Wars Yoda voice when I hear about a tiny service dog.

And that was my PM to our dear moderator; there has been service dogs in my family for about as many years as Di has been on this earth, and a breed which many here would apparently consider 'non-traditional'

I believe that there are a number of smaller breeds which are becoming more commonplace these days. Remember too, for years and years they weren't 'official' service dogs - people just trained their animals to do a duty. While the first service dog training facility may have been in Germany during WWI, there are accounts of 'service dogs' long before that.

The same holds true for therapeutic riding programs - while those too officially began in Germany, people trained their horses to adapt to their needs for a very long time in history.

The animals didn't have a label - they were just 'the dog' or 'the horse', and someone took the time to teach them some special skills. But along the way the perception of a service animal still tends to fall into a somewhat narrow category, unless one has had exposure or heard about these other breeds.

 

[bumbershoot]

This bothers me! My nephew has Duchenne Muscular Distrophy and has a service dog that has a CLEAR uniform that he wears when he is working.

Once again, I reiterate. Service animals have clear uniforms. These were pets.

But your dog does not *have to* have any sort of uniform or any sort of training. You are going above and beyond. And that's good, but it's not by any means necessary.

I looked into this heavily when I lived upstairs from a(n otherwise not allowed by the apartment complex) pit bull (and I do not shy away from stating that I have an extreme concern about those dogs, even though I grew up with big Alaskan malamutes and have adored a rottweiler at one point in my life) that was *supposedly* a service dog for the owner's epilepsy. Now, I know, I KNOW, that there are dogs that can sense a seizure before it happens, and let the owner know, so the owner can get to a space place in time (put the baby down, or stop driving, or etc etc etc). But this dog, nay, these dogs (b/c another appeared after a few months) were NOT service dogs, and we mainly figured that out because the owner NEVER took dog or dogs with her. EVER. The dog(s) stayed home all day every day with the boyfriend du jour, and because the guys weren't the owner, they had no control, and when the boyfriend (or the owner's 4 year old daughter) would let the dog(s) out to pee etc, he'd just stand at the 2nd floor apartment door calling ineffectually at the dog while the dog was standing guard over the apartment building. Also, the owner used to manage apartments and knew all the rules and how to get around them...

The apartment manager is a friend of ours (and continues to be our landlady outside of the apartment complex) and she knows the ADA stuff by heart, and I researched it heavily too, as this dog was keeping me and my newborn in our apartment b/c I was too frightened of the dog (and didn't trust my own body to run fast enough if the dog was let out by the daughter or boyfriend), and there is NO need for training, NO need for special outfits/vests, and no need for a service dog to be officially certified in any way.

Doctor says you have a condition, you say you have a service dog for it, bing bang boom, done. Places are not, by law, allowed to ask anything further than something like "is that a service dog for a condition that a service dog can help with", the owner says "yes", and by law the place has to shush and not ask anything further.

You are going above and beyond. Don't think that others are doing the same, but also don't think that just b/c they don't do the same it means they aren't a true service dog.

While the pit bull in question was NOT (though they are still living there, I assume b/c the neighbors just move out rather than let their families continue to add to the portfolio of "things the dog did that put us in danger" so that the manager can boot the family legally b/c a *member of their family* is putting others in danger) a service dog, it could very well have been one.

And I, personally, even though we did indeed move out of a much beloved apartment rather than subject ourselves to staying in the apartment, or having my husband cornered in his car *twice* by the dog not letting him move, would MUCH rather have those who legitimately need and have a service dog NOT be bothered by more questions, than put more barriers up in the way of people who, I'm sure, have enough barriers already.

Tasks can vary, depending on what the person needs. Some people with anxiety may have dogs that alert them when their heart rate or some other parameter is getting too high. That is a task. Someone who says they need to pet their dog to relieve anxiety does not have a dog performing a task for them and would not be covered under the ADA currently.
"Emotional Support Dogs" are allowed on airplanes (Air travel is covered by the Air Traffic Carriers Act, not the ADA, and they do have some different safety needs - you would not want am emotionally upset customer being out of control 10,000 feet in the air).

There are no requirements under the ADA that Service Dogs be certified, wear any special identification or vest or be certified. They must be well trained and well behaved. If they are not, they may be asked to leave. There have been other posts about this same group - even though I know some people with small Yorkie dog-type service dogs, from what I have read, these dogs are not service dogs because they are not well trained and were disrupting shows/attractions by braking and yelping.

Some people feel that Service Dogs should be required to be certified or to wear a vest or other item to show they are working. The problem with that is that those things are easily bought on the internet and someone with a 'fake' service dog would be as likely to have those things as a person with a real one.

Exactly.



After dealing with the not-a-service-dog and moving away, I decided that it was much better for my mental health to simply assume that a dog in a place it's not supposed to be IS a service dog, and move on with my life.

 

[clkelley]

Theres 2 kennels. 1 at the TTC and the other is at Fort Wilderness.

There are a total of 5 kennels at Disney. There is one at the entrance of Epcot, Studios, Animal Kingdom, plus the two you already mentioned, TTC and Fort Wilderness

 

[yrdlyprincess]

They had to be service animals but a maltese?? I have never heard of a maltese as a service animal.

 

[bavaria]

They had to be service animals but a maltese?? I have never heard of a maltese as a service animal.

http://www.memorylossonline.com/service_dogs.htm
http://www.squidoo.com/toymaltese
http://www.wheelmeon.org/serviceanimals.html

and many more

 

[DVCBELLE]

I have a niece with special needs who is EXTREMELY afraid of dogs. It is a huge issue for her and after therapy didn't work she is now taking anti-anxiety medicine to help calm her down so my sister no longer has to worry about her racing into the street to avoid a dog that might be out in the neighborhood but she still has a long way to go.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that people can call a dog that calms their anxiety a service pet. This can be at the expense of other people. There are a lot of ways to calm anxiety - therapy, medicine, even stuffed animals. I can understand in situations where there is a physical issue needing a service animal but to calm anxiety - with no consideration to people with physical allergies or anxiety issues of their own?

 

[brekin67]

While we were there a couple of weeks ago we kept running into a middle aged couple who were carrying around dirty, dressed, stuffed teddy bears. They were holding them like babies and helping the teddy bears shop. They interacted with the bears as if they were real babies. The bears were worn thin, had dried gunk on them. We thought that was odd. Maybe they were anxiety bears?

 

[goofy4tink]

Alrighty everyone...Missy Moderator checking in here.
Let's keep in mind that there are many various disorders that may require some kind of service animal, or emotional support animal. And, there are many various breeds that serve in these capacities. When I mentioned Foxy's, it was just to give an example of those who choose to not discipline their 'furbabies' (and I use that term in the nicest of ways). Once you start treating an animal like a human, you are in trouble..it's an animal!!! Animals are not the same as humans...I don't care how many cutsie outfits you put on it, I don't care if you wheel it around in a pink stroller and allow it to sit at the table eating. It's still an animal.

But....here's the thing. We have had posts from those with animal allergies, from those with animal phobias, those that have various disorders/diseases that require the use of a service animal in some capacity.
It would seem that there are those who feel their particular needs outweigh everyone else's. And this is the wrong direction to take.
To the poster who's niece has the dog phobia, I'm truly sorry. How hard it must be for your niece to deal with all those dogs....it seems that every other person, at least, has a dog. I feel so badly for someone who has a fear of dogs in this society. There is no way to get away from dogs. And on the other hand...there are those who get great service from their service dogs. They wouldn't be able to function in society without them...either deaf, blind, or somehow otherwise disabled/challenged.
But...here's the problem. Who has more rights? The young lady with the out of normal phobia regarding dogs, or the person who needs that dog to function in society? I'm certainly not going to make that call!
Can we not just accept that there are going to be issues on both sides of this issue? That no one is 100% entitled, and everyone else should just go pound sand??

I think this is really about those who think of their dogs as their babies/children. They refuse to leave them behind when they travel. They take them everywhere...restaurants, theaters, planes, theme parks. And it is those people that make an issue for those who truly need their service dogs. Service dogs are incredibly well trained...no matter what the breed. They are well socialized into society (hence the name 'socialization' I guess...duh). I have no worries about a trained service dog bothering anyone.
But...that lap dog that is too 'entitled' by it's owners??? That's a dog I'm going to worry about.

So, can we just agree that there are many reasons for service animals...some that we may not notice??? And also that there are going to be those who have an issue, of some kind, with dogs, or other animals??? No one person's rights trump everyone else's. I truly think that anyone who is in a situation to need a service dog is going to go around trying to get their way everywhere. I believe that they, for the most part, are pretty well-informed, caring people, that don't want to be a burden on anyone. They already have enough burden on their own shoulders.
On the other hand, those with animal allergies (for instance) shouldn't be running around telling those with service dogs that they need to cease using them because the dog is causing allergic reactions.

It would seem that, once again, all it takes is a few rotten apples in the barrel to spoil it for everyone involved.

 

[DVCBELLE]

Alrighty everyone...Missy Moderator checking in here.
Let's keep in mind that there are many various disorders that may require some kind of service animal, or emotional support animal. And, there are many various breeds that serve in these capacities. When I mentioned Foxy's, it was just to give an example of those who choose to not discipline their 'furbabies' (and I use that term in the nicest of ways). Once you start treating an animal like a human, you are in trouble..it's an animal!!! Animals are not the same as humans...I don't care how many cutsie outfits you put on it, I don't care if you wheel it around in a pink stroller and allow it to sit at the table eating. It's still an animal.

But....here's the thing. We have had posts from those with animal allergies, from those with animal phobias, those that have various disorders/diseases that require the use of a service animal in some capacity.
It would seem that there are those who feel their particular needs outweigh everyone else's. And this is the wrong direction to take.
To the poster who's niece has the dog phobia, I'm truly sorry. How hard it must be for your niece to deal with all those dogs....it seems that every other person, at least, has a dog. I feel so badly for someone who has a fear of dogs in this society. There is no way to get away from dogs. And on the other hand...there are those who get great service from their service dogs. They wouldn't be able to function in society without them...either deaf, blind, or somehow otherwise disabled/challenged.
But...here's the problem. Who has more rights? The young lady with the out of normal phobia regarding dogs, or the person who needs that dog to function in society? I'm certainly not going to make that call!
Can we not just accept that there are going to be issues on both sides of this issue? That no one is 100% entitled, and everyone else should just go pound sand??

I think this is really about those who think of their dogs as their babies/children. They refuse to leave them behind when they travel. They take them everywhere...restaurants, theaters, planes, theme parks. And it is those people that make an issue for those who truly need their service dogs. Service dogs are incredibly well trained...no matter what the breed. They are well socialized into society (hence the name 'socialization' I guess...duh). I have no worries about a trained service dog bothering anyone.
But...that lap dog that is too 'entitled' by it's owners??? That's a dog I'm going to worry about.

So, can we just agree that there are many reasons for service animals...some that we may not notice??? And also that there are going to be those who have an issue, of some kind, with dogs, or other animals??? No one person's rights trump everyone else's. I truly think that anyone who is in a situation to need a service dog is going to go around trying to get their way everywhere. I believe that they, for the most part, are pretty well-informed, caring people, that don't want to be a burden on anyone. They already have enough burden on their own shoulders.
On the other hand, those with animal allergies (for instance) shouldn't be running around telling those with service dogs that they need to cease using them because the dog is causing allergic reactions.

It would seem that, once again, all it takes is a few rotten apples in the barrel to spoil it for everyone involved.

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to say that I think most service dogs are a problem for my niece. I think that there are definitely legitimate reasons for dogs as service animals. And dealing in those situations is no problem. I never think that her anxiety should supercede physical disabilities.

What bothers me is what you are saying about people who bring the animals b/c they can't leave them alone. That isn't a medical need - it is a want.