Could DVC do this?

[crisi]

When I bank points, I'm not saying I don't want to use them, I'm saying I want them later. They are not "extra" - they are mine to use later. (no one should sell my "extra cookie" because I said I will have it later). Some people may be borrowing their points - not taking someone else's. I may bank 2015 points, change my mind about reserving a trip and need to borrow 2016 points to make it. So, I just switched the use year points I'm booking with, but I am still using all of my points eventually.

If there's availability, someone can use their points to make a reservation. If there's no availability when they want to go, they can't use their points unless then look for another time that is available.

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something but I don't agree. Maybe there would be a problem if people could save their points for any amount of years (I was suggesting the 3 years limit, but being able to unbank or unborrow during those 3 years), but it would be member's problem as they wouldn't be able to book, not DVC's if they only have a certain amount of rooms they want to put as available.

Well, herein lies one problem...they aren't your points. You have a right to use those points for a year, with the option to extend for a year within the rules of the system. If you don't use them, the right to use that those points represent reverts to their actual owner - Disney. We simply lease.

There is a huge distinction between ownership and right to use.

 

[supersnoop]

Well, herein lies one problem...they aren't your points. You have a right to use those points for a year, with the option to extend for a year within the rules of the system. If you don't use them, the right to use that those points represent reverts to their actual owner - Disney. We simply lease.

There is a huge distinction between ownership and right to use.

Except we do own. We own the building; which is represented by points. Disney does not own the points; we do.

 

[mickeymom629]

Well, herein lies one problem...they aren't your points. You have a right to use those points for a year, with the option to extend for a year within the rules of the system. If you don't use them, the right to use that those points represent reverts to their actual owner - Disney. We simply lease.

There is a huge distinction between ownership and right to use.

I should have put quotation marks around "mine", I suppose.

My thought was that for making reservations, it would be nice if points could be put back in their original use year if necessary without being a final transaction, as long as the cancellation of the reservation was done within a reasonable time from the start of the reservation and the end of the use year (or something like that).

Just a thought.

 

[Dean]

I should have put quotation marks around "mine", I suppose.

My thought was that for making reservations, it would be nice if points could be put back in their original use year if necessary without being a final transaction, as long as the cancellation of the reservation was done within a reasonable time from the start of the reservation and the end of the use year (or something like that).

Just a thought.

Different timeshares points systems handle this in various ways. Some charge to borrow and/or require full dues payment up front. Some charge to bank and many restrict the banked points. Bluegreen and Marriott allow one to borrow the points but the expiration stays the same. Marriott allows banking for one year with a banking cutoff date similar to DVC, Bluegreen charges a small fee AND restricts banked points significantly. I also work with an individual timeshare that uses points and it charges to bank or borrow and has a cutoff date. In years past Bluegreen would not charge to bank, not charge a fee and would roll them over automatically. They changed this a few years ago. This is an area by rule where DVC can change without input or restriction other than the general fiduciary responsibilities.

 

[crisi]

Except we do own. We own the building; which is represented by points. Disney does not own the points; we do.

No, we lease the building. DVC is a right to use timeshare, we have no technical ownership, just a lease.

 

[deedisneydream97]

Why are there so many rules regarding borrowed and banked points?

I was thinking it would be nice if borrowed points could be put back into the original use year if a reservation is cancelled and if banked points could be unbanked if needed.

I don't really understand why we are penalized with 'final transactions' if we "own" those points and are current on our payments. What difference does it make to DVC if we undo our banking/transferring as we make/cancel reservations?

Just recently, I borrowed a lot of points to make a reservation for November. Then, MONTHS later, I decided to save some points and I called to adjust the reservation. I fully expected to have to use my 39 borrowed points before my current use year ended, but the cm who helped me change my reservation offered to put ALL of the borrowed points back in the original year! It was so nice of her!! And it got me thinking that, really, what difference is it to DVC?

I was thinking this would be a nice new 'perk'.

If you "don't understand why we are penalized", perhaps you did not read through your ownership documents. Very nice that a CM undid your mistake for you; I truly think we all get a one time "get out of jail free card" for not really understanding our membership. I made a mistake once...NEVER AGAIN. I never even entertained the thought that DVC should change their entire business plan because of my mistake. Perhaps DVC should make a new rule....TOO BAD if you "don't understand your membership". You did not bank, even though you had reminders. Sorry...but your mistake made another member very happy!

As another poster pointed out....I don't think there is another timeshare place that has the DVC benefit of banking and borrowing. A wonderful thing for those that vacation at WDW every other year...a 100 point contract at AKV means a truly great vacation every other year or so.

Someone just "gave" me their timeshare right outside of Disney. I am locked in to one specific week...forever. But it works for me. And my friend. They could not sell it. However, a Disney DVC....with all of their banking/borrowing/perks stuff? You can sell them in a New York minute and probably at least break even....and not even counting the years of vacations you have enjoyed.

"Perk" is defined as an extra benefit. To me, as a DVC member, an extra benefit would be free dole whips, a discount on food, sneak previews at new rides etc. at the parks (been there done that, it is FUN), a discount on park passes (varies from year to year...but love it when it works out for me). Thinking that a "perk" should be the ability to fool around with your points the way you want? DVC would not be in business.

 

[supersnoop]

No, we lease the building. DVC is a right to use timeshare, we have no technical ownership, just a lease.

That's not true. We own the building, but not the land. DVD has a 50 year ground lease, but we own the improvements. That's why our deeds have to be recorded with the county.

 

[Dean]

That's not true. We own the building, but not the land. DVD has a 50 year ground lease, but we own the improvements. That's why our deeds have to be recorded with the county.

The answer is somewhere in between but this is not the reason the deed has to be recorded. We do temporarily own the buildings but not to do what we want with them. Disney has all of the control with very limited exception, DVC is functionally and usage wise like a prepaid rental car, no more. The deed doesn't have to be recorded, Disney just chose to do it that way. They could have just as easily held the ownership in trust and that likely would have been a better choice than having recorded deeds for them and us.

 

[jagson]

This is all to complex. Lease or own, bank or borrow, rent or sale points--all too complicated. Have you ever tried to explain these concepts to someone interested in DVC? I can't even keep up with them. "Simplicity is the essence of genius" as an old professor said. Eliminate them and DVC will sale more timeshares. The thought of having to go to WDW every 2-3 years may not be what some want to do. But keeping it flexible is more appealing. The thought of losing points that you paid for, on the other hand, is unappealing. What would you think about your bank if they spent your deposit every 2-3 years if you didn't spend it. I know the bank "lends" your money out, but you have faith that they will give your money back on demand, if they don't go bankrupt or a "run on the bank" occurs. I could go on, but I'll stop for now, and welcome feedback.

 

[JimMIA]

As another poster pointed out....I don't think there is another timeshare place that has the DVC benefit of banking and borrowing.

I agree with most of your post, but this part is simply incorrect.

MOST timeshare systems DO have some flexibility features built in, including floating weeks and all sorts of banking/borrowing options. You'll see some examples in my Post #17 on page 1 of this thread, and further discussion in Dean's posts #19 and #24.

Frankly, having used both systems, I prefer the way Wyndham handles this aspect of ownership (which is the 3-year use system that mickeymom629 was advocating). I find it more beneficial to the owner because it gives me a LOT more flexibility.

But the fact is, whatever system is in place is the system. It is what it is. You learn it, you use it, and you benefit from it. And, as you correctly pointed out, it's not the system's fault if we make a mistake.

And, as Dean also pointed out, you realize that it is NOT guaranteed and it can, and probably will, change at some point during your ownership.

 

[MAO]

What would you think about your bank if they spent your deposit every 2-3 years if you didn't spend it. I know the bank "lends" your money out, but you have faith that they will give your money back on demand, if they don't go bankrupt or a "run on the bank" occurs.

First of all, a timeshare is not like a bank in any but the most shallow of comparisons. Unlike money that has no real time limiting factor (a $5 bill from 50 years ago is going to buy you whatever $5 today will buy you - the 'value' may change, but a bank doesn't deal in that, does it?) once the month of January, 2015 was over then there was absolutely NO WAY you were going to spend a week at Disney January 11-18, 2015. Period. Secondly, as several of the later posters in this thread have pointed out - them's the rules. Honestly, I was and still am unhappy that a Cast Member put borrowed points back into someone's regular Use Year - to my mind, that should not have happened. The fact that it did is what prompted this whole discussion.

And as far as being too complex? DVC seems to be flourishing well enough that I wouldn't worry about your inability to explain it.

 

[crisi]

This is all to complex. Lease or own, bank or borrow, rent or sale points--all too complicated. Have you ever tried to explain these concepts to someone interested in DVC? I can't even keep up with them. "Simplicity is the essence of genius" as an old professor said. Eliminate them and DVC will sale more timeshares. The thought of having to go to WDW every 2-3 years may not be what some want to do. But keeping it flexible is more appealing. The thought of losing points that you paid for, on the other hand, is unappealing. What would you think about your bank if they spent your deposit every 2-3 years if you didn't spend it. I know the bank "lends" your money out, but you have faith that they will give your money back on demand, if they don't go bankrupt or a "run on the bank" occurs. I could go on, but I'll stop for now, and welcome feedback.

If you are looking for simplicity, you don't want a timeshare - any timeshare. Complexity is required in order to make it work. You are fitting a million members (I think its a million now) into rooms every year. Those members already have some pretty unreasonable expectations. The only way you don't have chaos is to have a complex system.

 

[JimMIA]

If you are looking for simplicity, you don't want a timeshare - any timeshare. Complexity is required in order to make it work. You are fitting a million members (I think its a million now) into rooms every year. Those members already have some pretty unreasonable expectations. The only way you don't have chaos is to have a complex system.

Agree, and as a matter of fact, DVC is actually a fairly simple, easy to understand, timeshare system. Many other systems are WAY more complex than DVC.

 

[mickeymom629]

If you "don't understand why we are penalized", perhaps you did not read through your ownership documents. Very nice that a CM undid your mistake for you; I truly think we all get a one time "get out of jail free card" for not really understanding our membership. I made a mistake once...NEVER AGAIN. I never even entertained the thought that DVC should change their entire business plan because of my mistake. Perhaps DVC should make a new rule....TOO BAD if you "don't understand your membership". You did not bank, even though you had reminders. Sorry...but your mistake made another member very happy!

As another poster pointed out....I don't think there is another timeshare place that has the DVC benefit of banking and borrowing. A wonderful thing for those that vacation at WDW every other year...a 100 point contract at AKV means a truly great vacation every other year or so.

Someone just "gave" me their timeshare right outside of Disney. I am locked in to one specific week...forever. But it works for me. And my friend. They could not sell it. However, a Disney DVC....with all of their banking/borrowing/perks stuff? You can sell them in a New York minute and probably at least break even....and not even counting the years of vacations you have enjoyed.

"Perk" is defined as an extra benefit. To me, as a DVC member, an extra benefit would be free dole whips, a discount on food, sneak previews at new rides etc. at the parks (been there done that, it is FUN), a discount on park passes (varies from year to year...but love it when it works out for me). Thinking that a "perk" should be the ability to fool around with your points the way you want? DVC would not be in business.

OP here. I LOVE DVC AND AM VERY HAPPY TO HAVE BEEN A MEMBER SINCE 1999!! The CM did not undo my mistake, since I did not make a mistake and I did not expect my points to be put back in the year I borrowed them from. I intended to use the borrowed points on another reservation, and still do. I just need to borrow those points again . But, I did appreciate that she did that for me as a one-time favor, which I did not ask for or expect.

This thread was started, by me, as an idea of something that I thought would be a nice "perk" since some members have been complaining that DVC has been diminishing perks. I HAVE NOT BEEN ONE OF THOSE MEMBERS and I truly understand how to use my membership - in fact, planning how to use my points for vacations is one of my favorite things to do! Thank you for explaining to me what you would define as a 'perk'.

I'm glad my thread has sparked a discussion, and I appreciate the answers of why some people say DVC couldn't really do what I suggest. I didn't mean it to cause an argument or for some to think I was unhappy or expecting DVC to give me more than I already get.

 

[crisi]

Agree, and as a matter of fact, DVC is actually a fairly simple, easy to understand, timeshare system. Many other systems are WAY more complex than DVC.

And to make it simpler, you take away flexibility.

The simplest rules are "you get X points every year to be used between Jan 1 and Dec 31st of that year. You can make reservations 11 months in advance, but only at your home resort. There is no option, ever, of booking a resort other than what you bought into. Good luck."

Or, "you buy a set week in a room type that you choose at time of purchase. There are no options for anything else. Need to travel a different week - your problem. Need a bigger room - your problem. Want a different resort - hahahahahahaha!"

Those are very simple sets of rules, but wouldn't make most people happy.

 

[JimMIA]

Just to give you an idea of how the flexibility/simplicity equation can make life complicated -- and how simple and user-friendly DVC is -- I just finished doing a work-around reservation for our summer vacation to Arizona.

Our original plan was first night in Phoenix, 4 nights at Wyndham Flagstaff, one night at Monument Valley, 3 nights in Grand Canyon NP, 3 nights at Wyndham Sedona, and then home.

The first complication we ran into was that American Airlines arbitrarily changed our flight home from mid-afternoon on our return date to 12:59 AM! So we lost an entire day in Sedona, and there was no way to change that mess. Second complication is that we were flying out a day early to see one of my wife's college friends, but it turns out she will be out of the country on our arrival date (unless her plans change...again ). So now we're there a day early with nothing to do, and coming back a day early when we don't want to!

So...I checked availability at Sedona on the date of our flight out -- no availability for one night, but availability for 2 nights. Hmmm. So we could go to Sedona for two nights, check into Flagstaff a day late (which is permissible) and we'd solve both problems and actually gain one day in Sedona.

But wait...Wyndham has a no-overlap rule! Huh? You can't have two reservations in the same name for the same date with Wyndham -- unless you use a Guest Confirmation. Because I purchased resale basically for nothing, I only get one Guest Confirmation per year; additional GCs are $99 each.

But I haven't used mine, so I was able to book the additional two nights in my wife's name at no cost except for time spent on the phone with Wyndham MS (including one call where I received erroneous information which would have completely ruined our vacation) and some time double-checking my understanding of the rules over on TUG.

So I may prefer Wyndham's Credit Pooling to DVC's banking/booking -- but this no overlap thing is a pain in the ...! The moral of this story is that you learn the system (bit-by-bit) and you make it work for you.

 

[Dean]

I agree with most of your post, but this part is simply incorrect.

MOST timeshare systems DO have some flexibility features built in, including floating weeks and all sorts of banking/borrowing options. You'll see some examples in my Post #17 on page 1 of this thread, and further discussion in Dean's posts #19 and #24.

Frankly, having used both systems, I prefer the way Wyndham handles this aspect of ownership (which is the 3-year use system that mickeymom629 was advocating). I find it more beneficial to the owner because it gives me a LOT more flexibility.

But the fact is, whatever system is in place is the system. It is what it is. You learn it, you use it, and you benefit from it. And, as you correctly pointed out, it's not the system's fault if we make a mistake.

And, as Dean also pointed out, you realize that it is NOT guaranteed and it can, and probably will, change at some point during your ownership.

For Wyndham don't you have to pool (bank) the points before the year begins? Marriott is very similar except no home resort priority. Bluegreen is easier in some ways, but with less flexibility now. BG use to be much better than DVC but now charges to bank and restricts banked points.

 

[JimMIA]

For Wyndham don't you have to pool (bank) the points before the year begins?

Yes, unless you're a VIP owner, you pool prior to the beginning of your Use Year. And, pooled points cannot be used for home resort priority.

 

[montrealdisneylovers]

OMG after these last couple replies all I can say is: I love my DVC!!!

 

[Dean]

OMG after these last couple replies all I can say is: I love my DVC!!!

So do I but I love the others too. It really depends on what you want out of it and all of the other systems do a better job balancing Disney and other vacations. DVC is only reasonable for DVC resorts only.