Cost Effective Use of Points

coldnorth

Earning My Ears
Joined
Apr 29, 2001
Several people have written that exchanges (II) and going outside the DVC resorts (Concierge) are "not the most cost effective use of DVC points". I am trying to understand this. When I read the number of points people have used on exchanges to Hawaii, Colorado, etc., and the excess demand to trade into DVC; I can't understand why it would not be a good deal for someone using all the various vacations available with DVC.

If I am missing something, please help me understand! The points system seem so flexible and the trading power appears to be a real strength. If we buy into DVC, we would probably only use the DVC resorts about 50% of the time.

Thanks for any advise,
ColdNorth:confused:
 
Basically you can buy a much less expensive timeshare that will give you at least the same trading power.

Our resident expert, Dean, will chime in soon.

I am not that familiar with all the other timeshare options, but I have seen him talk about places that you can buy for a small fraction of the cost of DVC to use for trading. Then maybe buy a smaller amount of points and use the banking and borrowing options every other or third year for vacations at WDW.
 
I have been racking my brain over this trying to decide whether to buy DVC or a surrounding area timeshare. I definitely do plan to trade but still will do WDW at least every two years. I know the whole "you either need to be onsite or you don't" argument, but I'm not sure which side I fall on it. So the trading issue becomes a big, possibly deciding factor for me. Also, how does DVC cost compare to something like Star Island Resort or Marriot Grande Vista for comparable time periods? How about flexiblity?I've tried researching theses questions (even joined TUG) but there's so much info out there it's overwhelming. I'm looking for a concise opinion from an informed individual.

If Dean has written about this before, then a simple link will do if any knows it. Otherwise, I await Dean's or someone else's wisdom to help me decide and stop buuging my wife to death with my indecisiveness.
 
There are definitely less costly timeshares which will allow exchanges to other locations. As Rich pointed out above, if you want to vacation at other timeshares- you might consider buying the points you'll need at WDW and buying a cheaper timeshare for exchange purposes. We found one (which is on the DVC exchange list) for $500 (plus $325 per year annnual dues)- we use that only for exchange.

Having said this, the exchange option is one of the great features of DVC. DVC does have good status for an exchange and if there are times when you want to go elsewhere- there are certainly some good bargains with the exchange possibilities.

The comments about "cost effectiveness" are meant to point out the relatively high dues structure and costs of DVC compared to off site timeshares, but in no way should be taken to mean that this feature isn't a good option. If you plan well and want to try these features, it's a great way to use some of those points.

No wrong decision here. DVC works well- both within the DVC system and at other places. There are also other ways to enjoy those same exchanges.

Enjoy!
 
Doc - thanks for the helpful opinion.

I'm curious - does timeshare you bought for $500 still allow you good options for exchanges? In other words, is it requested enough that you usually get what you are trying to trade for? I've read about some South Africa timeshares that are inexpensive and wondered how well they hold up for exchanges. Would you be willing to tell us which timeshare you bought.? If you'd rather not post it here, you can email me at richmod@hotmail.com. And if you'd rather not alltogether, I certainly understand. Just trying to fully understand all of my options.

Thanks again.
 
My "cheapie" is <a href="http://www.rci.com/CDA/Resort_Directory/tmpResortSearch/1,2667,_L0NEQS9VU0EvdG1wVXNh_0_USA_IN,00.html?detailflag=1&detail_resort_id=&prv_resort_id=1788&next_resort_id=1788&last_resort_id=7779&i_resort_name=&flag=1&nextflag=&prvflag=&i_region=&i_usa_city=&i_usa_state=&i_int_city=&i_int_country=&i_search=0&i_facilities=&i_accommodations=&totallist=3&restlist=%2D7&endlist=3&startlist=1&first_resort_id=1788&end_resort_id=7779">French Lick Springs Villas</a> here in Indiana. It is a member of both II and RCI and is listed as an RCI "Resort of International Distinction"- not the highest rating but next best.

We have never had any trouble exchanging this week. (It is a week based timeshare and we usually go in off seasons.)

The reason it was so cheap is that the resort has accumulated a number of weeks from owners who just defaulted on the ownership and stopped paying annual dues. Many timeshares are experiencing this phenomenon. Most are not equipped- like DVC- to rent out their unused units- so they sit empty. By selling them inexpensively- they begin getting the dues paid again which helps with upkeep and amenities. A win-win situation. Many resorts have a similar availability of reclaimed units for sale. It worth a query to the owner's association.

TUG and Timesharing Today provide classified listings for timeshare sales- but those are all listings from owners- who usually have a high opimion of the "value" of their week. DVC is very unusual in this regard and has maintained the resale value by exercising their right of refusal. Most timeshares have no such policy.

I hope this helps. I'm sure Dean will also offer some thoughts on this subject. He has some great insight for timeshare utilization.
 
I think that there is another dimension to the effectiveness of using DVC for exchange. First of all, the most cost effective use of your DVC points is generally to use them at one of the DVC resorts; your points seem to go further. Depending upon the timeshare into which you are trying to exchange, the timeshare may be available for cash rentals at significantly lower cost than the value of your DVC points ($5-$10 per point). Thus, you would be better off renting your DVC points and getting the timeshare "exchange" for cash and having some money left over. It is just an extension of the argument that using your points at the DVC resorts generally provides the best value. Add onto that the timeshare experts' arguments outlined above, and DVC does not generally look very good if it is going regularly be used for exchange rather than staying at the DVC resorts.
 
I own another timeshare which I will use to trade... I think a good way to look at this is to value your points at $10 per... Then multiply them to figure out what you are paying for your accomodations. You'll find that another timeshare will generally be cheaper to use. However you will then also be stuck with another maintenance fee and exchange charges.

If you go to the DVC Resale site & click on other timeshares you can get a feel for what people are willing to sell them for....actually that's what they are listing them for...odds are if they really want to sell they will take less. Or try the timeshare users group www.tug2.net

My orlando share trades well elsewhere through II. My brother used it to vacation in Aruba...I plan to use it this year at either Stowe, Sugarbush or Whistler (for you skiers).

For myself I'd sooner use cash than use the Disney points except for the most upscale of locations or the most difficult to book areas.

On the other hand if the Disney points constitute your vacation budget then that's what you have to use.
 
I haven't yet traded my points, but have different sets friends who own at Acapulco Plaza and SnowMass (both RCI resorts) and have a huge amount of trouble getting exchanges when they wanted where they wanted. Many people need to go a certain time (school holidays, etc) and can't just go when something is available.

When I called II to ask about some of their properties (thinking about an exchange next year) they asked where I own. I said DVC-Boardwalk, and the rep basically said "Oh, you'll have no problem exchanging pretty much wherever and whenever you want to go - that's a place we never have trouble getting exchanges for"

Now, I haven't had a chance to test this yet, but if this is so, it seems like (although maybe not the best use of point) a good use of points on an occasional basis.
 
My own thoughts on this were along the same lines as Doctor P's.........for example, we're adding 2 nights to our Jan trip. - we've considered using the Disney Collection but the 22 points that will get me a regular room at the Poly, AKL or YC/BC will get me a 1BR at VWL or BWV. You just get a lot more for your points when using them at a DVC resort. And also consider that the same night exchanged to The Plaza in NY is over 40 points.

Its been said that the real value in DVC is getting deluxe resorts at moderate prices...which is very true when using the DVC resorts, but if you exchange a lot its not giving you so much of a bargain. It is nice to know the options are there.
 
What are the details behind exchanging with II?

It seems to me if I could book a week in a studio at OKW during Adventure Season it would cost me 80 points. If I can use that week to trade into Hawaii or peak ski area during season, it is still a great value (especially if you happen to trade into a one or two bedroom). But I don't know the details of exchanging with DVC. I do know with other timeshares it is possible to trade a highly valued studio into a 2 bedroom at another resort.

Anyone know the details of II exchanges?
 
I'm no expert but have been looking into it a bit. To trade through DVC, you exchange a similar type unit (1BR for a 1BR) in a similar season. You won't know the exact number of points needed until MS finds a match. II will sometimes offer you a larger accommodation than you are trading because they like to get DVC properties in trade. This will only happen on a search, though; if you ask for a particular property and it is available, you must trade for the same size unit.

I think I've discovered the trading power in owning DVC. It's through private trades. I've been considering a trade so joined TUG. I posted BWV and have had several inquiries. They have offered a 1 or 2 bedroom for a BWV studio. Since we're used to BWV, we're being quite picky about where we want to trade so haven't found the perfect match for us yet but I'm working on a couple.

While you're waiting for Dean's response, you could save him some typing and do a search on this forum for Dean's previous responses or you could search on the word "trade" or "exchange" or something like that. I've done it and there's a wealth of info here.

Good luck!
 
It seems I've gotten in late on this one. Of course everything is relative. Due to the high cost and high yearly fees with DVC, exchanging is generally not a good deal. Of course the individual situation and circumstance will determine the final outcome.

Some of the key points are that you lose the flexibility with exchanges and there are other options out there that are less expensive, give you more options and trade as well or even better. The fact that you must give up unit size and season for the exchange you want is a big disadvantage. It may seem fair on one front but it is not the general way the timeshare game is played. I can tell you that on every exchange I've made with a non DVC timeshare, I've treaded up in unit size or season or resort quality and in most cases at least 2 of the 3 and since I was exchanging a 2 BR for part of these, there wasn't the option to trade up in unit size.

Other factors are that there are many times people ahead of you because of internal priority, Marriott and Royals comes to mind. No real chance to trade up, only about 10% of II units available for exchange, no access to II directly, no bonus weeks (2 weeks for one) and no wish book. Plus those that own the top locations usually don't give them up either so not many units available at the premier exchange destinations. Most exchanges will also be an exchange down on some level, if nothing else, you're giving up Disney even if the resort received on exchange is as nice.

On the other hand trades are generally request first and can be placed up to 2 years out with a call first to see if it's ok and a $75 exchange fee with no II fee. I'd say that II exchanges are the second best use of points behind DVC resort use and far ahead of DCL, DC, CC, etc.

Direct exchanges are a great option as are exchanges through independent exchange companies. Both take more work and faith but can be worth it for the right situation. This also gives you options for resorts that you wouldn't have access to any other way (other II resorts and RCI resorts).

As for others having difficulty with exchanges, you must know how to play the game and also own the right bait, not too high or too low. My timeshare are layered so that I only have to give up just enough to get what I want. Those that don't understand the system or own questionable weeks (resorts vs week #) or deposit late or expect an exchange a full year out or are very restrictive in their choices early in their exchange process are going to fail. The timeshare game is fairly easy if you're truly flexible, plan ahead (more than a year), own at the right locations and weeks and know what and when to ask for. It does take nerves of steel sometimes, you must be prepared to fail occasionally and you absolutely must be prepard to wait until 2-3, months before your travel to get an exchange.

And don't even think about buying off Disney Orlando for exchanges and that includes Marriott unless you get a real steal, we're talking $500 for Platinum time at GV. The trading power is just so low. Now if you want to use it every year, that's another ball game as they are great resorts in their own right.

Now for those that want to exchange rarely, are very particular with their exchange and don't care if they get it or not because they still have their points or that don't want to learn about "timeshares" or play the game; DVC alone may be the best option. Those that bought DVC and didn't want to have to think about vacation again except to know it's through DVC, are certainly entitled to their own little world and none of us should tell them they are wrong. The tragedy comes when someone is planning to buy and doesn't get all of the information ahead of time to make their best decision.
 
Thanks so much for the info. Just a few questions:

The fact that you must give up unit size and season for the exchange you want is a big disadvantage

Why do you have to give up unit size and/or season?

I'd say that II exchanges are the second best use of points behind DVC resort use and far ahead of DCL, DC, CC, etc

What is DCL, DC, CC?

And don't even think about buying off Disney Orlando for exchanges and that includes Marriott unless you get a real steal, we're talking $500 for Platinum time at GV. The trading power is just so low.

Why is their trading power so low?

If you've anwered these before in another post, just let me know and I'll do a search.

Thanks again,

Rich
 
Great post, Dean! Just wanted to reiterate what he said about buying at a non-DVC Orlando property. Unless you want to stay there EVERY year, DON'T buy offsite Orlando. Their trade power is usually not very good. If you owned a fixed Christmas week at an Orlando Marriott and wanted to use it most years, perhaps the internal exchange power (to other Marriotts) would make an exception.

Otherwise, if you want to visit Orlando every other year or less often and you'd be happy with an offsite timeshare, buy elsewhere cheaply, where the trade power is better and trade into Orlando EASILY! We've done it and always get our first choice of resorts, using our inexpensive South Africa weeks and our quieter season Hilton Head Island Marriott (less $) week... Marriott Grande Vista & Cypress Harbour, Vistana, Orange Lake Country Club, Hilton Grand Vacations, Sunterra Cypress Pointe, Westgate Vacation Villas, Silver Lake... most of these were holiday weeks, like Christmas, Easter, 4th of July, Thanksgiving and all were 2-BR or 3-BR villas.

If you want onsite DVC only, buy where you want to stay the most often, and buy the amount of points you would use at DVC resorts by banking and borrowing for your DVC stays.

To be specific about the cost of your DVC exchanges, imagine you had to trade your full year's allotment of points in order to get a full week for exchange. Adding together the maint fees and $75 trade, what would you be paying for that exchange stay? If you consider monthly payments on a mortgage or lost interest on your invested purchase money, the figure is even higher. Could you rent the exchange property for your total or less? If so, exchanging DVC is not a good value.

Going further, if you owned a timeshare purchased for $1,000 and with maint fees of $140/year, paid under $200/yr for RCI membership and an exchange fee, your expense for an exchange week would be < $340 for your exchange week to Orlando or elsewhere (assuming the trade power of the week were sufficient to suit your needs). We've done this quite easily and it's far less $$$ than DVC would cost for trading. This is where DVC can be a poor value for trading, by comparison with other options. Dean gave good examples of where DVC trading may be good for some people.

Hope this made sense. Feel free to email me for more detail or suggestions.

Lisa P. potter@a-o.com
 
Thanks for all the replies. I think I finally got it!! Unfortunately it doesn't make my decision any easier, but as Dean said - there are no wrong answers as long as you understand what you're getting.

It reminds me of when I was a member of a golf club. It was convenient, great course, very enjoyable, but I felt guilty when I played other courses because of the cost.

It is easy to plan for 5 years at DVC resorts, but the next 5 or 10 is more difficult for me to imagine.

Thanks again for all the helpful information. This is a great community!
ColdNorth
 
Thanks Lisa. First to correct my last post, that should have been $5000, not $500 for Grande Vista Platinum. Maybe it was a Freudian slip.

The reason you must USUALLY give up the same unit and season is that DVC and II say you do. There are exceptions and I'll address this in a moment. Most exchanges are going to be either Adventure season or Dream Season. If you call for an exchange, they will look right then and see if it's there. If it is, they will tell you how many points based on what's available at DVC to offer for an exchange AT THE LOWEST POINTS POSSIBLE and what "season" the chart says you must trade to get that exchange for THE SAME SIZE UNIT. HI is Dream or Magic year round except 3 weeks in Oct. Caribbean including Cancun is Dream or Magic for weeks 51-16 (Christmas to Easter) and Adventure the rest of the time. Basically if it's very difficult for anyone to get, it will be Dream or Magic, but if it's easier even if still II red time, it may be Adventure.

The cheapest Adventure is HH and otherwise the cheapest exchanges are OKW. About 3 years ago they changed it so that one would exchange the lowest points in the DVC system rather than where they actually own which helps the exchanger because it’s less points and also hopefully helps the other members because more of the desirable rooms are available to members. Since OKW is the largest resort, this scenario works well. Remember if you request resort X than only has 2 BR units, you must give up points for a 2 BR even if you only needed a 1 BR.

The exception appears to be that with ongoing searches they will sometimes offer you a larger unit that requested and you will then pay the lower points based on what you were searching for.

The reason that the Orlando resorts have low trading power is supply vs. demand. Although there are many great resorts, there are more units than needed in most cases. High request with low availability at a great resorts means great trading power. High request with even higher availability means low trading power. That’s not to say you can’t do ok trading Orlando but it’s all relative. Also consider that Orlando, especially the top resorts, tend to have high fees but not as high as DVC. When I was at the Marriott owners meeting at Ocean Pointe, even the salesman was telling the Grande Vista owners how the trading power was so much less than Ocean Pointe and even though he was doing it for the wrong reasons, his point was correct.

Lets take my recent exchanges. Gatlinburg Town Square in a 2 BR unit for Sept of 1999 and Oct of 2001 first with a bonus week and then in 2001 with my Aruba 1 BR which cost a fraction of DVC cost and the fees are also about a third of ONE of my DVC contracts. Same Aruba 1 BR week for Cancun at VCI in a 2 BR July. Through DVC they would have been all for the 2 BR points and likely for Gatlinburg for Dream season points. My week 35 at Harbour Pointe in HH which is just across the Marina from DVC has traded to a 1 BR at Marriott’s Ocean Pointe and 2 weeks this July at Marriott’s Monarch on the Ocean (two 2 BR units). The Monarch would have been Dream or Magic points. All except Monarch are on the DVC exchange list and Monarch is an Oceanfront Marriott which has just completed a complete redo inside and outside and if it wasn’t for Marriott having 4 others on the DVC list, it would be there as well.

I hope this answers your questions further.
 
Dean,
Here's my question...Is there anyway around doing an exchange through member services? I assume this would be possible through independent exchange companies and as you mentioned by doing an exchange directly with another owner via tug (or other boards). What about joining II on your own? Would it be possible for me to make a reservation for a week at OKW in a studio and deposit it directly with II and do searches, or am I completely restricted to going through MS?

Also, can you direct me to some of the more reputable independent exchange companies?

Thanks!
 
You cannot deal directly with II concerning DVC EVEN IF YOU ARE ALREADY A MEMBER OF II. You're options would be to exchange directly with another person either for what they own or what they can get as an exchange. Trading for another person's exchange (or potential exchange) makes me nervous.

There are a number of independent and smaller exchange companies out there to include Trading Places, Trading Places HI, San Francisco Exchange, Platinum Interchange, Donitas, various Dial An Exchange (Australia and Europe). Keep in mind I haven't actually done this but I have talked to two of the above mentioned and DVC exchange at MS about this issue. DVC will not deal with nor confirm and exchange to a non member and that includes a unit deposited with one of the above.

All of the companies have their strong points and specialty locations. SFX is likely the top but I'd consider them all for the right exchange.

What one must do is to make a reservation then put the name on the reservation as the exchange company and then change it to the name of the other exchanger. A certain amount of trust will need to occur.
 














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