Corporal Punishment in Schools...

[hsmamato2]

Also wanted to add, i agree with some PP's... discipline is essential...but discipline,really effective discipline is training,and that has to reach the mind and heart of a child. That's rarely a spanking-Granted, too many today just plain old don't discipline, but i hardly think beating a spoiled rotten kid with a wood paddle at school or anywhere will reach their mind and teach them how to improve

 

[TinkerbellMama]

? for ya'll. DH is looking to be hired with the IRS. To get us some better standing in "getting hired" he is wanting to say SURE..we will go anywhere in the US. (at least to get his foot in the door, and if we really hate a place possiably asking for relocation after a year or so)
BUT, recently, in an attempt to research a few cities that we could possiably go I have noticed that some states actually still allow Corporal Punishment!!!!! I was shocked and appaled to say the LEAST! 23 states to be exact.

Do you live in one of these states? Is it an issue for you? I don't want my daughter being hurt by ANYONE. Is there a way around this? Or do I have to tell DH that our country just got 23 states smaller??

Schools with corporal punishment, as brutal and morally wrong as it is, have waivers for parents to sign stating you do NOT give permission for your children to be hit. Yes, it's sick that it has to come to that, and it doesn't always work. A friend of mine's son was recently "paddled" at school even after she reaffirmed her opposition to it (she had signed a waiver stating NO corporal punishment at the beginning of the year, and stated in a phone call prior to his "punishment" that she did NOT want him paddled). She did what I would have done in the same situation; namely, she called the police and reported an assault on her child, and contacted an attorney. She also pulled her son out of that school and commenced homeschooling (she already homeschools her other children, but this son was attending school by his choice to participate in band and some other things). This was a 12 year old boy, and they still "spanked" him despite his mother's protest. Sickening. I would be LIVID and would definitely press charges. Whether anything would come of it, I don't know...but you would definitely have a case! Personally, situations like this are just another reason I will be homeschooling my son. I can't stand the idea of sending him off to be at the mercy of school officials...on everything from canned curriculum to corporal punishment. No thanks!
And FTR, I still can't believe people think it's okay to hit children. It's disgusting and abusive. And no, I don't give a rip if anyone reading this thinks spanking is "okay"...IT ISN'T.

 

[ThreeMusketeers]

Schools with corporal punishment, as brutal and morally wrong as it is, have waivers for parents to sign stating you do NOT give permission for your children to be hit. Yes, it's sick that it has to come to that, and it doesn't always work. A friend of mine's son was recently "paddled" at school even after she reaffirmed her opposition to it (she had signed a waiver stating NO corporal punishment at the beginning of the year, and stated in a phone call prior to his "punishment" that she did NOT want him paddled). She did what I would have done in the same situation; namely, she called the police and reported an assault on her child, and contacted an attorney. She also pulled her son out of that school and commenced homeschooling (she already homeschools her other children, but this son was attending school by his choice to participate in band and some other things). This was a 12 year old boy, and they still "spanked" him despite his mother's protest. Sickening. I would be LIVID and would definitely press charges. Whether anything would come of it, I don't know...but you would definitely have a case! Personally, situations like this are just another reason I will be homeschooling my son. I can't stand the idea of sending him off to be at the mercy of school officials...on everything from canned curriculum to corporal punishment. No thanks!
And FTR, I still can't believe people think it's okay to hit children. It's disgusting and abusive. And no, I don't give a rip if anyone reading this thinks spanking is "okay"...IT ISN'T.

GOOD FOR YOU! Tottally AGREE!

 

[ThreeMusketeers]

I know what you mean about out of control kids in public. I cannot STAND that or the parents who refuse to parent their children so that the rest of us have to deal with their lack of parenting skills.

My step kids are 7 and 4. They are not allowed to run screaming around stores or in restaurants. They often look shocked at the countless numbers of spoiled out of control kids we see in stores and restaurants. Just yesterday we saw a child hitting his dad and screaming about a toy he wanted... My step son whispered to me "That boy needs a time out!" Yes he does little man! My step children have nice manners and they are very well behaved. My husband and I do NOT spank them. We are consistent with the rules and consequences in our home. Period. Time outs and other non violent consequences work if you are consistent, every single time. You can't be lazy about it. The second a child sees that you aren't totally behind what you just said, there is a struggle. When my step son is at his mother's house he is a different boy. Sometimes she'll get fed up and spank him. He laughs at her. Once she was trying to spank him and he hit her back...which makes sense...she was hitting him, why shouldn't he hit in return? She is not consistent with any consequences. He is willful and smart mouthed with his mom. He throws things at his sister. He is not a child that I know when he is with his mother. It's very sad b/c I know what a good boy he truly is and can be.

We have never hit him, we never will, and he is a poster child for "nothing else works"...but it does. We are consistent. We don't waver. He doens't need to test us b/c he knows with 100% certainty that we mean what we say. It's pretty simple.

Violence breeds violence.

I agree with this too. It's always those kids whose parents spank them, who end up hitting and hurting other children. My "step" MIL, will actually BITE her kids if they bite another child!! She says its "so they will know how it feels" and make them stop.
Well..thats crazy. It dosen't work, AT ALL. A time out, or a "toy in the holding box" will do the same thing. Learning to treat others with respect is something you learn when others treat you with respect as well.
But that's not the point, my point is, that it litteraly sickens me that Schools are allowed to paddle students at all. As many of you have said. If you as a parent choose to do it, so be it. But how do you gauge the force that is going behind another person's "paddling" on your young child?
Just seems SICK! They are not lab rats, they are children. GOD..you can't even hit your dog, or its animal abuse! THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN!

 

[write2caro]

Learning to treat others with respect is something you learn when others treat you with respect as well.

Agreed!!!!

She did what I would have done in the same situation; namely, she called the police and reported an assault on her child, and contacted an attorney.

Good for her!!!!!!!!! My husband and I were talking about this yesterday and that's exactly what we would do. I hope the school really has to deal with the consequences.

 

[perdidochas]

And FTR, I still can't believe people think it's okay to hit children. It's disgusting and abusive. And no, I don't give a rip if anyone reading this thinks spanking is "okay"...IT ISN'T.

Hitting children is wrong. Spanking is not hitting. Spanking has worked well for the human race for thousands of years. It still works. If you don't care to do it, don't. Just leave me alone, and allow me to use all of the consequences that work with my kids.

 

[perdidochas]

I agree with this too. It's always those kids whose parents spank them, who end up hitting and hurting other children.

I've found the opposite to be true.

My "step" MIL, will actually BITE her kids if they bite another child!! She says its "so they will know how it feels" and make them stop.
Well..thats crazy. It dosen't work, AT ALL.

It is a good last resort. All kids are different. Some kids need physical discipline. It's just like learning styles in the classroom. Not all kids can learn by simply reading a book or listening to the teacher. Similarly, not all kids respond to mental consequences, like grounding, etc. My youngest brother had a period of biting. Nothing stopped it, until my mom bit him. He never bit anyone else. IT does work with some kids. It doesn't with others.

A time out, or a "toy in the holding box" will do the same thing.

Not to all kids. Time out or losing a toy doesn't effect all kids the same. Losing a toy would do little to my boys. Grounding does, but honestly, to me, grounding is borderline cruel. It requires you to bring back the fact that a child had misbehaved for a long time. Time outs work well, sometimes, but again, some kids aren't bothered by it, and it doesn't phase them for longer than the period of the time out.

Learning to treat others with respect is something you learn when others treat you with respect as well.

I agree. 90% of my disciplinary techniques involves positive actions.

But that's not the point, my point is, that it litteraly sickens me that Schools are allowed to paddle students at all. As many of you have said. If you as a parent choose to do it, so be it. But how do you gauge the force that is going behind another person's "paddling" on your young child?

Well, I trust most teachers I know. If I didn't, I don't think I would want my kids in their classroom. Also, as other posters have indicated, while theoretically, this is allowed in many states, practically speaking, almost no paddling is being done, except as a last resort. For example, I've known principals in a middle school, who had already suspended a kid 20 days in a semester. If the student (who was already overaged) got suspended again, they would automatically fail for the year. Since suspension already doesn't work, spanking was used, in the hopes to change behavior, and so that the student could at least theoretically pass.

Just seems SICK! They are not lab rats, they are children. GOD..you can't even hit your dog, or its animal abuse! THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN!

Spanking does not equal abuse.

 

[pweyl36]

I agree with this too. It's always those kids whose parents spank them, who end up hitting and hurting other children. My "step" MIL, will actually BITE her kids if they bite another child!! She says its "so they will know how it feels" and make them stop.
Well..thats crazy. It dosen't work, AT ALL. A time out, or a "toy in the holding box" will do the same thing. Learning to treat others with respect is something you learn when others treat you with respect as well.
But that's not the point, my point is, that it litteraly sickens me that Schools are allowed to paddle students at all. As many of you have said. If you as a parent choose to do it, so be it. But how do you gauge the force that is going behind another person's "paddling" on your young child?
Just seems SICK! They are not lab rats, they are children. GOD..you can't even hit your dog, or its animal abuse! THESE ARE OUR CHILDREN!

That is not true,my Kids have never hit,bite or picked a fight with any one!
I have 3 kids that range in age from 19-5. I also watch nanny 911 and see alot of kids beating up there parents,and I know those parents never hit there
kids.explain that.

 

[Katiebell]

This thread isn't about whether or not parents should spank their own children. Emotions tend to run very high on this subject, and the discussion can become really...un-Disneylike? It's like discussing religion or politics -- people can have very passionate opinions, and you aren't likely to change their minds in a discussion board debate.

The thread is about whether or not corporal punishment should be allowed in schools. Evidently, 23 states still allow this. That's almost half our country. Most people that live in CP states are saying that it almost never happens, and that parents can sign a "no spanking" form and have it on file at the school. Apparently that is not always effective, according to the post by TinkerbellMama about her friend's child.

For parents who do believe in spanking their children -- if you are comfortable with a school teacher, administrator, dean, or principal paddling your child with a wooden paddle, then this is totally a non-issue. I do wonder how you would react, however, if your child was paddled at school and came home with bruises or welts.

For parents who do not believe in spanking their children -- or who do occasionally spank, but feel that decision should be up to the child's parents or other adult family member who loves the kids as their own, not to an adult school employee outside of their family -- if you live in a CP state, then you have a few options:

~Make sure you have a "no spanking" letter on file with the school, and make sure it is kept up to date. If I lived in a CP state, I would also draw up a letter to have the school officials sign that they understand they are never under any circumstances to paddle my child, and would keep that on file at home. If they refuse to sign it, send it certified mail, return receipt requested, and keep the receipt on file along with a copy of the letter you wrote.
~Be prepared to file assault charges and hire an attorney in the rare instance that your child may be paddled without your permission.
~Get together with other like-minded parents and lobby your representatives and congressman to get the laws changed.
~Or...pull your kids out of public school and put them in a private school that does not practice CP ever, or homeschool them.

 

[Fintastic]

Though I will get flamed, I am not sorry to say I signed the form.

I only have a three-year-old, but if she's older and does something to warrant a paddling, I'm going to let the school give her one. I don't spank her at home because other things work when she's acting up. And I'm sure the school isn't going to paddle a child without giving fair warning first, or paddle them for something insignificant (i.e., being a few minutes late to class).

 

[HelenePA]

I do wonder how you would react, however, if your child was paddled at school and came home with bruises or welts.

Well then that is NOT spanking... when I spank my kids (at least the older 2 the youngest one hasn't been spanked yet he's too young) there are NO Marks left. Most of the time it doesn't hurt! We are talking fully dressed pants and undies on... no marks.. Most of the time its to get their attention to STOP doing what ever they are doing wrong... like I said... selective hearing... it runs in the family

 

[Tam1067]

Well then that is NOT spanking... when I spank my kids (at least the older 2 the youngest one hasn't been spanked yet he's too young) there are NO Marks left. Most of the time it doesn't hurt! We are talking fully dressed pants and undies on... no marks.. Most of the time its to get their attention to STOP doing what ever they are doing wrong... like I said... selective hearing... it runs in the family

If it doesn't hurt, then what's the purpose of it? Isn't the point of spanking to inflict pain upon the victim? I think parents tell themselves that it doesn't hurt to make themselves feel OK with what they're doing, which is teaching their children to use violence when they are angry or frustrated.

 

[HelenePA]

OMG No its NOT about pain.. when my kids are yelling.. they can't hear me.. I'll go over and swat their butt.. its NOT about pain.. its about them STOPPING what they are doing... and No I dont tell myself it doesn't hurt just to make ME feel better.. I KNOW it doesn't hurt... we wrestle with the kids harder than I "spank" them. have you ever swated your DH on the butt while he was walking by? Ya know a little love tap? That's about all the kids get around here.

 

[hsmamato2]

I honestly don't think this should be a spanking or not debate....
I just could NEVER in my lifetime,no matter what my own family views are, allow a stranger, someone who has no love for my kids, license to hit them with a piece of wood,or even a hand. I can imagine in my nightmares the abuses of power that must come from a situation like that.
It's my job to raise my kids,and to discipline them,and train them. No one elses. In a school setting,I'd appreciate a teacher,etc letting me know if my kid messed up,and I'd most surely deal with it, but it's NOT THEIR PLACE !
I mean, is it ok for a stranger to come over and slap my toddler in walmart if he's screaming? What's the difference? They could claim they're "keeping the peace" for those who like quiet,and not noisy screaming kids.... Why is it not ok for someone to HIT my 3 year old,but when he turns 5,it's suddenly in the best interests of everyone in society to allow a stranger with a certificate to hit my kid?
I wouldn't allow anyone outside my family to administer disciplne, it's just giving away too much to an unknown quantity....

 

[Katiebell]

For parents who do believe in spanking their children -- if you are comfortable with a school teacher, administrator, dean, or principal paddling your child with a wooden paddle, then this is totally a non-issue. I do wonder how you would react, however, if your child was paddled at school and came home with bruises or welts.

Well then that is NOT spanking... when I spank my kids (at least the older 2 the youngest one hasn't been spanked yet he's too young) there are NO Marks left. Most of the time it doesn't hurt! We are talking fully dressed pants and undies on... no marks.. Most of the time its to get their attention to STOP doing what ever they are doing wrong... like I said... selective hearing... it runs in the family

That is exactly what I'm talking about. You talk about swatting your child on the bottom -- I assume with your hand -- when they are fully dressed to get their attention. From what you are describing, I understand exactly what you are talking about. The discussion is not about whether or not parents should spank their children. I asked how would a parent feel if a school administrator who does not love your child and is not a member of your immediate family paddled your child with a wooden paddle? It wouldn't be a gentle love tap just to get their attention -- the intention of a school paddling is to inflict pain and humiliation to deter children from repeating the behavior for fear of another paddling. If you would be ok with that, then would your reaction be different if your child came home with bruises and/or welts from that paddling?

 

[WantToGoNow]

I didn't realize that corporal punishment was still allowed here in Ohio. I do not remember signing anything allowing or disallowing it when my son started school -- maybe because he's in Kindergarten.

The comment from the teacher about parents making excuses. My son does get into a bit of trouble at school -- he doesn't pay attention, he talks when he's not supposed to, he doesn't sit still, he sneaks toys in his bookbag, stuff like that. And yes, I've been guilty of making excuses for some of his actions (not the toys, though, I let them be taken away). He takes a steroid (for Asthma) right before school and a Benadryl (for allergies, mainly his latex allergy) and they both HYPER him like you wouldn't believe. I can't give them to him in the evening -- he won't sleep -- so I have no choice. I have discussed this with his teacher but I can tell she gets a bit frustrated with him at times.

I'm going to have to check into this because I do not want him spanked at school (even though he does get the occasional spanking at home - but I/dh will be the one to administer it).

 

[write2caro]

Hitting children is wrong. Spanking is not hitting. Spanking has worked well for the human race for thousands of years. It still works. If you don't care to do it, don't. Just leave me alone, and allow me to use all of the consequences that work with my kids.

YOU CAN do whatever you want in your home, within the bounds of the law. Go for it. I believe this is about whether we should arm SCHOOL OFFICIALS with a law that says they can PADDLE children at what may effectively be their discretion. I mean, if I'm allowing these people to do this (i.e. NOT opting out) presumably in many cases (although I understand not all from PP's) I'm going to take the teacher's word for it that it's "deserved" and that it will be administered "appropriately", whatever that means when a piece of wood is striking a child. Thus, their discretion. A PP's account shows that however unlikely, it CAN be administered in a CP school WITHOUT parent's consent. Risk of abuse of the law seems to me to be reason enough for it not to exist anymore for the rest of our children, whatever you decide to do with yours. If I were in a CP state I'd be upset that my tax dollars go to fund this in any way. I agree with PP about lobbying officials for a change.

 

[MinnieGi]

I'm in shock to find Delaware on the list of states that allow corporal punishment. My DD started public school kindergarten this year and we received no "opting out" statement. I have also never heard anyone talking about anyone receiving any type of corporal punishment or of it even being used for a threat.

Before I had DD I was an elementary teacher here in DE and NEVER heard of anyone using corporal punishment or of it being even threatend. I have never seen a paddle in a school here that I have been in.

I also grew up in this state and never came across anyone being paddled or being threatend to be paddled. There certainly were not any paddles around.

I assumed corporal punishment was completly off the books here. My mom talks of remembering it being used. She remembers how the SAME boys always got a paddling for the SAME offenses. So it didn't really seem to have a deterrent kind of effect.

 

[DisneyDiva13]

I'm in shock to find Delaware on the list of states that allow corporal punishment. My DD started public school kindergarten this year and we received no "opting out" statement. I have also never heard anyone talking about anyone receiving any type of corporal punishment or of it even being used for a threat.

Before I had DD I was an elementary teacher here in DE and NEVER heard of anyone using corporal punishment or of it being even threatend. I have never seen a paddle in a school here that I have been in.

I also grew up in this state and never came across anyone being paddled or being threatend to be paddled. There certainly were not any paddles around.

I assumed corporal punishment was completly off the books here. My mom talks of remembering it being used. She remembers how the SAME boys always got a paddling for the SAME offenses. So it didn't really seem to have a deterrent kind of effect.

I'm from DE too. I haven't heard anything recently about paddling in schools, but as I said in an earlier post, I was paddled in the 2nd grade. This was about 25 years ago..but I do remember kids being paddled on a regular basis when I was going through the public school system.
My son goes to private school and they do not allow CP. As far as public schools go, I don't have a clue if they are using it anymore.

 

[MinnieGi]

I'm from DE too. I haven't heard anything recently about paddling in schools, but as I said in an earlier post, I was paddled in the 2nd grade. This was about 25 years ago..but I do remember kids being paddled on a regular basis when I was going through the public school system.
My son goes to private school and they do not allow CP. As far as public schools go, I don't have a clue if they are using it anymore.

Hi DisneyDiva - I read your account and thought that was just horrible. May I ask what district you went to school. I also grew up here, taught here and now have a DD going to school here and have never heard of anyone being paddled. In fact I thought it was against the law!