Coronavirus and DCL Megathread - Suspension of Departures for the fleet until early November. Booking only available from early December.

[skeeter31]

I’m sorry if this has been asked and answered before but I’m new to this thread (usually spend my time over on the Rumors and News board). I have a cruise booked for December 2020 and we booked using our onboard placeholder cruise discount. We had to book a cruise by 2/2021 to utilize the placeholder discount. We’re thinking of moving our cruise to December 2021 using the new Flexibility temporary booking policy. Would our placeholder discount be able to move with us or is that going to be held fast to that 2/21 deadline? Just wondering if I should move the cruise now or wait for Disney to cancel through the end of the year and move it then. Thanks in advance!!

 

[SolitaryPhoenix]

Crystal Cruises just canceled the rest of their 2020 cruises.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5500

 

[SolitaryPhoenix]

Crystal Cruises just canceled the rest of their 2020 cruises.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5500

 

[emilymad]

I’m sorry if this has been asked and answered before but I’m new to this thread (usually spend my time over on the Rumors and News board). I have a cruise booked for December 2020 and we booked using our onboard placeholder cruise discount. We had to book a cruise by 2/2021 to utilize the placeholder discount. We’re thinking of moving our cruise to December 2021 using the new Flexibility temporary booking policy. Would our placeholder discount be able to move with us or is that going to be held fast to that 2/21 deadline? Just wondering if I should move the cruise now or wait for Disney to cancel through the end of the year and move it then. Thanks in advance!!

I could be wrong but my understanding is that if you move your cruise as part of the Flexibility program the new cruise keeps the same payment/penalty dates as the original cruise.

 

[Starwind]

FYI, info relevant for 2021 Alaska cruises, from local Skagway media:

https://skagwaynews.com/2020/08/01/skagway-ketchikan-plan-for-the-2021-cruise-season/

 

[Karin1984]

As the thread about the Diamond Princess is closed, I'm gonna use this one instead opening a new thread. In a Dutch newspaper there was an article about a research on the spread on the Diamond Princess that was done by Harvard and the Illinois Institute.
According to the research up to 60% were infected by aerosols and not as much by touching infected surfaces.

The NY Times wrote about it as well https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/health/diamond-princess-coronavirus-aerosol.html + link to the study in here

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think as more and more science comes clear about aerosols, I cannot see cruising resuming without some strict mask rules.

 

[monkeydawn]

I think as more and more science comes clear about aerosols, I cannot see cruising resuming without some strict mask rules.

Or vaccine or treatment.

WE are in it for the long haul, unfortunately. I hope lines as we know them can get through this.

 

[T & R]

Form what I'm reading the science is becoming less clear. Doctors and scientists cannot explain why the overwhelming majority onboard the Diamond Princess never became infected. Less than 20% of the passengers and crew caught Covid. There were infected passengers who had been to Guangdong Province, China and were symptomatic with coughing but still boarded the ship anyway on Jan 20th. So for over 2 weeks sick passengers ran around onboard with no pandemic plan in place. Passengers were not notified about a potential outbreak until February 3rd (2 weeks after embarkation), so nobody was taking any precautions to prevent Covid spread. To this day doctors and scientists cannot explain why the infection rate was so low. If you read the studies on aerosols and droplets, the infection rate should have been way higher than 20%.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Or vaccine or treatment.

WE are in it for the long haul, unfortunately. I hope lines as we know them can get through this.

Epidemiologists in my state (they're good!) say that a vaccine is the beginning of a new phase, not the end of the virus.

I especially think any hope of DCL sailing in 2020 or most of 2021 will involve masks. And the two cruises in Europe aren't a good omen for 2020 fo sho.

 

[wombat_5606]

If you read the studies on aerosols and droplets, the infection rate should have been way higher than 20%.

I read something interesting today about the Diamond Princess. They said that 20% of the cases were asymptomatic on that cruise.

A subsequent cruise ship with an outbreak was provided masks and their infected passengers had 80% of their passengers asymptomatic. I'm not able to identify what cruise that referenced, though, but it would seem to point to mask wearing as a benefit.

We don't have all the the knowledge we need on this virus yet. I read at some point, that people with O blood may have some immunity, but haven't seen any mention of that in a while. Unfortunately, I don't see anything to do except wait for science to catch up.

 

[T & R]

I read something interesting today about the Diamond Princess. They said that 20% of the cases were asymptomatic on that cruise.

Yes, I hope soon they can explain that phenomenon as well. My brother and his wife went to visit his wife's parents out of state. Not long after getting back my brother's in-laws called him to tell them to go get tested because they were sick. Sure enough my brother and his wife go get tested and they were Covid positive. My brother said if he hadn't have got the test, he would have never known that he had Covid. I wonder how many people there are like this who had their Covid come and go and never knew because they had no symptoms so they never knew to go get a test. If my brother's in-laws hadn't have called him, he never would have known. How many people got it from a gas station pump or something and never got sick so the numbers are really out of whack. It's hard to put a morbidity rate on Covid when you have no idea how many have been positive.

I have also heard people say that Covid scars the lungs. I personally do not believe this and wish the science would come out on this. It is my opinion that some people who get Covid have lung scarring because they have auto-immune issues they are unaware of. Many auto-immune disorders have no symptoms so people grow old not even knowing they have a problem. You can also have lung scarring from a massive response of your body's immune system when fighting an illness or infection, it doesn't even have to be from an auto-immune disorder. The actual lung scarring is a reaction of your body's immune system overreacting and killing it's own cells, it's not from the Covid virus. Your body attacks itself and it's own organs. So this lung scarring would have occurred to these people from any number of different illness and is not specifically caused by Covid. That's one of the reasons the 1918 pandemic was so deadly and killed healthy strong people is because it was your own body's immune system that actually killed you. People that have a strong or overstimulated immune system will be the one's who get the sickest when it comes to these types of viruses.

 

[wombat_5606]

Yes, I hope soon they can explain that phenomenon as well. My brother and his wife went to visit his wife's parents out of state. Not long after getting back my brother's in-laws called him to tell them to go get tested because they were sick. Sure enough my brother and his wife go get tested and they were Covid positive. My brother said if he hadn't have got the test, he would have never known that he had Covid. I wonder how many people there are like this who had their Covid come and go and never knew because they had no symptoms so they never knew to go get a test. If my brother's in-laws hadn't have called him, he never would have known. How many people got it from a gas station pump or something and never got sick so the numbers are really out of whack. It's hard to put a morbidity rate on Covid when you have no idea how many have been positive.

I have also heard people say that Covid scars the lungs. I personally do not believe this and wish the science would come out on this. It is my opinion that some people who get Covid have lung scarring because they have auto-immune issues they are unaware of. Many auto-immune disorders have no symptoms so people grow old not even knowing they have a problem. You can also have lung scarring from a massive response of your body's immune system when fighting an illness or infection, it doesn't even have to be from an auto-immune disorder. The actual lung scarring is a reaction of your body's immune system overreacting and killing it's own cells, it's not from the Covid virus. Your body attacks itself and it's own organs. So this lung scarring would have occurred to these people from any number of different illness and is not specifically caused by Covid. That's one of the reasons the 1918 pandemic was so deadly and killed healthy strong people is because it was your own body's immune system that actually killed you. People that have a strong or overstimulated immune system will be the one's who get the sickest when it comes to these types of viruses.

Thankfully, your brother had nice family. Sorry that they are positive, but glad they aren't having any ill effects.

My oldest daughter just called me today. Her best friend was just exposed over the weekend by her brother in law. His family were in Alabama at some sport camp for their high school son last week. They came home (BTW-we have a travel quarantine in effect, which they ignored.) and the son went to football workout and checked in with a temperature. They let him sit on the sidelines that day. The second day, he goes back again and when he had a temp, they gave him a test. That same day the father goes to help my daughter's friend and her husband move into their new house. He does that knowing his son is running a temperature. He does that knowing they have been in a state where their infection rate is high and our state requires them all to be at home in quarantine. Today they received confirmation that the son is positive and most likely the entire family is. You can imagine how upset my daughter's friend is today. They have 3 children under the age of 8. If any combination of this family has moderate to severe symptoms, it will be a nightmare.

I just really can't wrap my head around why a family member would be so cavalier about this virus. They just moved in over the weekend. They don't even have a home, really, with boxes piled everywhere.

Asymptomatic people is why I fear for schools this fall. I just can't imagine this is going to go well.

I look at the lung scarring issue a little differently than you. Those people might not have had their immune system pushed into overdrive if they had not been infected with the virus. That's like a chicken and the egg. Who knows which comes first.

 

[monkeydawn]

We don't have all the the knowledge we need on this virus yet. I read at some point, that people with O blood may have some immunity, but haven't seen any mention of that in a while. Unfortunately, I don't see anything to do except wait for science to catch up.

Last time I saw reference to this, there was no significant difference between blood types found. I cant recall the source but I'm betting I saw it on CNN's newsfeed.

 

[monkeydawn]

Form what I'm reading the science is becoming less clear. Doctors and scientists cannot explain why the overwhelming majority onboard the Diamond Princess never became infected. Less than 20% of the passengers and crew caught Covid. There were infected passengers who had been to Guangdong Province, China and were symptomatic with coughing but still boarded the ship anyway on Jan 20th. So for over 2 weeks sick passengers ran around onboard with no pandemic plan in place. Passengers were not notified about a potential outbreak until February 3rd (2 weeks after embarkation), so nobody was taking any precautions to prevent Covid spread. To this day doctors and scientists cannot explain why the infection rate was so low. If you read the studies on aerosols and droplets, the infection rate should have been way higher than 20%.

This was early on so everyone was operating on iffy info (as oppossed to out current, rock solid info now :eyeroll. First off it was after about two weeks before testing really started, I had thought around 4 week but this feels like a lifetime ago and my memory certainly isnt infallible. Its possible some people would have tested positive if tested during the timeframe that testing wasnt happening initially. It looks like asymptomatic people typically have lower viral loads and IIRC these early tests werent so sensitive. Asymptomatics could have been missed. The early tests were highly unreliable. IDR and passengers reporting they were given follow up, lets check just in case, tests if they had a negative until repatriation had occurred. The only retests I read about were positives needing multiple negatives to be considered cleared. Finally, based on accounts I was reading broad testing of those without symptoms/ contact with known positives just wasnt happening until towards the very end.

Based on how testing was handled I dont think we can really say that we know the actual percentage that had COVID at some point during the DP experience.

 

[JM23457]

I read at some point, that people with O blood may have some immunity, but haven't seen any mention of that in a while.

Last time I saw reference to this, there was no significant difference between blood types found. I cant recall the source but I'm betting I saw it on CNN's newsfeed.

There have been 2 main sets of studies on it. One set (of 2 similar studies done in different locations) was looking at susceptibility to contracting Covid, and type O people seemed to contract it less.

A later & slightly different study (Harvard), looked at the effect of blood type on the severity of symptoms among hospitalized Covid patients, and found there was no difference in symptom severity related to blood type among hospitalized Covid patients.

Both sets of studies were preliminary, but that's the basic info that has been gathered so far. Pretty minimal, but interesting. Blood type is known to play a role in susceptability to certain other communicable diseases, so it would be helpful to know if it plays a role in relation to Covid.

On a different note, there has been research on the influence of T-cells in relation to one's susceptibility to getting Covid and how severe it is. They have proven (via lab samples taken years before Covid existed) that some people's T-cells react to Covid even though they were never exposed to it & have no antibodies. However, scientists don't yet know if that T cell reactivity helps or hurts. Once that is understood, it could go a long way toward explaining why some people with a similar level of risk cope well with Covid, while others have severe symptoms.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

There's an Uncruise vessel sailing Alaska. Only cruise ship there this year.

 

[AquaDame]

There's an Uncruise vessel sailing Alaska. Only cruise ship there this year.

Those ships are small vessels... it is the only line my work friend will sail because it doesn't feel like a cruise ship (her words, not mine). 60-76 guests and 25-28 crew members.

Edited to add that they sail round trip from Juneau also. Probably relatively easy logistics wise with both of those. They don't make it sound like you really go into any of the towns/cities otherwise either.. https://www.uncruise.com/destinations/alaska-cruises/glacier-bay-national-park-adventure-cruise

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Those ships are small vessels... it is the only line my work friend will sail because it doesn't feel like a cruise ship (her words, not mine). 60-76 guests and 25-28 crew members.

Edited to add that they sail round trip from Juneau also. Probably relatively easy logistics wise with both of those. They don't make it sound like you really go into any of the towns/cities otherwise either.. https://www.uncruise.com/destinations/alaska-cruises/glacier-bay-national-park-adventure-cruise

Yeah. My understanding is the current voyage is 37 passengers, 30 crew, RT from Juneau and they're doing several overnights in Glacier Bay. They're focusing on non-town adventures more than usual (and that's generally their approach anyway - lots of kayaks off the back).

Obviously, far different profile than a DCL or other big ship hitting port, with a younger clientele who tend to be better at SUP in cold water. US flagged, crew operating under US rules. These smaller outfits may be seizing a stronger share in the future.

 

[bcwife76]

There's an Uncruise vessel sailing Alaska. Only cruise ship there this year.

Annnnd it's headed back to Juneau as a passenger has tested positive. The passengers will be put up in a hotel to isolate and the crew will isolate onboard the vessel.