Copyright vs. Selling pictures locally...

[AnnieDan_Artlover]

Hi everyone!
OK, first, I know about the never ending copyrights at WDW... And I know what I'm asking is on the verge of "how much can I break the law" or "to what extent do you think I could go without getting caught"... well almost... On the other hand, if I read right, I wouldn't be the only one!

I'm planning my first, ever, finally, yay, trip to WDW next spring.

I'm an amateur/pro photograph
(how can you be both?
You loved photography your whole life without never doing that much, but sometimes spending a 24 poses film on sunsets... and making your parents scream because it would cost a lot to develop such nonsense...
Got ill, couldn't work anymore, decided to make kind of a career change, but can't do much photography either -not anymore than any kind of work or activity!- so you can't be part of any professional association, can't have your pro card -good, it costs too much anyways!-, can't get many contracts either; but sell some of the little you can do and have pro-quality equipment...ok not top-pro-quality... I told you I'm not working! I'm not that rich! )

So, one of the things I want to do in WDW, except... hum, let me check... the list is rather long! Except being the child again and all the other stuff, is TAKING PICTURES!!!
Of course, I don't want to forget to enjoy the whole thing, especially since it'll be my first time (and I tend to focus only on photography once I'm doing that)... and since I don't want to drive my mom mad either... I'll bring my dad's not-so-bad-quality point and shoot for the "unpredictable magic moments", and use the pro-quality equipment only for the "predicted photo moments".

But that's not the point... (altough, I felt some background was needed for the question to come).

At home, I'm not selling too much. How could I : selling a lot means more job, being fast at answering requests, producing prints, sending stuff, etc. I just can't do that!
I mostly sell to family, friends, family friends (not the same thing!) a.k.a. individuals, and I sell prints and by-products (like photos printed on mugs, cards, clothes, keychains, etc.) at a local giftshop (in fact, it's in the waiting area at the beautician!... She turned it into a pretty cute giftshop!). I hope, someday (when I have the time/money to produce enough stock), to also sell some stuff at a local gallery.
OK, when I say local : the beautician's giftshop is in the next village. We're situated in a rural area, in Quebec (Canada). Both villages have an estimated population of less than 5.000 (it's the same situation population/density-wise in all the county, for about an hour drive all around). The beautician gift-shop sees maybe 30 clients a day... The gallery I hope to sell my stuff in, eventually, is in the nearest city... that city has an estimated population of 25.000, but I don't think it gets more clients then the beautician, sadly.
And when I talk about selling stuff there, let me be clear : it's usually very limited editions (not only because of the limited funds I can put into production, but also because being in a rural area, I couldn't sell 30 times the same picture!).
So even my best photo won't appear more than 3-4 times, and not on the same support (once as a print, once on a mug, once on a card, etc.).
And since I'm not given a large shelf space, I never sell many specimens of each types of products (depending on the type of products, of course, but for exemple : no more than 2 mugs, 10 cards, 5 large prints, etc.).
It's very limited selling, very, very local.

I tought of maybe selling some products on eBay, but it wouldn't be for soon (I would need to get more funds first... and I'm a little scared it would be too much work for what I can put in), and anyways, I wouldn't be stupid enough to sell something that would be at risk of a copyright suit there.

I'm not sure that what I would sell (friends/family, gift-shop, etc.) would include any of WDW copyrighted stuff! May I be very clear about that! How could I know, I've not been there yet!
Maybe I'll be more happy with other kind of pictures, and those screaming WDW won't feel "sell-able" to people around here...
But if it would be the case, that I would want to sell a picture containing WDW copyrighted stuff, I'm wondering :
Do you think I should worry and not try to sell any picture with a Disney copyright, knowing in which circumstances I would?

Pfff... I know it was a long intro to get there... but now you see why!...
It's all because of the "circumstances" thing!

Thanks very much!

 

[DVC Jen]

it's illegal - why risk it?

 

[Anewman]

As photographers in this digital era where it is all to easy for someone to scan/screen capture and/or use other methods to obtain images without our consent...

Lets just say that I did not think any photographer condoned anykind of profitting from other parties copyrighted works without consent.

but to answer your question... IMO under the "circumstances" you mention, you need not worry much about getting caught.

 

[AnnieDan_Artlover]

OK, I understand I did not put myself under a good light or didn't give a good first impression. But it was a question for one situation! Not about what I usually do or what my philosophy of work is!

First, let me tell everyone that I've never, ever used anyone else's work in any circumstance, never used copyrighted material without consent, never used anything that wasn't my own and said it was, or anything else like that. NEVER.
I want my work to be recognized as mine and using someone else's work and saying it's mine, for me, would be like making others like the job of another, and not mine. (it's even the reason why I tend to retouch my photos to the least amount possible... but that's another story!)

Second, I'm asking an hypothetical question, in case this happens, and wanted answers as for what I should/could do if a certain situation would arise.

Third, I never would've asked that question if I hadn't read posts where photographers were talking about having Disney pictures with copyrighted content on stock sites, where customers can buy them. And saying happily that they were "lucky not to get caught".
Now, if they aren't perceived as bad people and some kind of art thieves, why should I?

May I just make one thing clear : copyrighted material in my question doesn't mean using clipart or someones else's work in the first degree. It's in the meaning of including protected images in my photographs, meaning WDW structures, like the castle or Spaceship Earth, or a character like Mickey Mouse on the boardwalk, for example (and whatever else they protected...).
I know it's not more legal!... It's just that in the answer Anewman gave me, it seems as tough I hadn't been clear, because he talked of using other's images by scanning and such...


I'm not saying I'll do it, I'm not saying "give me the opportunity, tell me I'm sure of not getting caught and I'll do the crime", I'm only asking for an opinion on a specific situation... Not for a judgement.


And by the way... Of course I'll try to get the consent of Disney... But, hum... do you really think they'll give it to me, for just a dozen sell by a poor girl who doesn't even have a pro-association card? I've read is some posts that they don't, except if you want to do a book, and always ask for a percentage (they'd get a big 2$ total!... would they help with the funding?! ).
Lets say I'll ask because I always do... But my hopes are low!

Thanks for the answers...

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'd be happy to give you an opinion but in all honesty, I've read your OP twice and now your response twice and I'm still not really sure what you're trying to convey.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm only asking for an opinion on a specific situation... Not for a judgement.

Can you really separate the two?

 

[Anewman]

Third, I never would've asked that question if I hadn't read posts where photographers were talking about having Disney pictures with copyrighted content on stock sites, where customers can buy them. And saying happily that they were "lucky not to get caught".
Now, if they aren't perceived as bad people and some kind of art thieves, why should I?

I do not think anyone here referred to you as an art thief or bad person, and I also don't see where any photographer here said that those selling images with unauthorized copyrighted content are not.

May I just make one thing clear : copyrighted material in my question doesn't mean using clipart or someones else's work in the first degree. It's in the meaning of including protected images in my photographs, meaning WDW structures, like the castle or Spaceship Earth, or a character like Mickey Mouse on the boardwalk, for example (and whatever else they protected...).
I know it's not more legal!... It's just that in the answer Anewman gave me, it seems as tough I hadn't been clear, because he talked of using other's images by scanning and such...

I never accused you of taking someone elses work in the first degree, I just feel that as photographers in an age where it is very common and easy to have our images used without consent... I thought most of us would understand and show the same respect and consideration to other copyright owners, that we would like to receive in regards to our photos.

I'm not saying I'll do it, I'm not saying "give me the opportunity, tell me I'm sure of not getting caught and I'll do the crime", I'm only asking for an opinion on a specific situation... Not for a judgement.

I gave my opinion and answered the question, sorry if you feel I was judgmental.

And by the way... Of course I'll try to get the consent of Disney... But, hum... do you really think they'll give it to me,

I am confident they will not give you permission, and they are under no obligation to give it to you. Same way you have no obligation to allow use of your photographs by anyone.

Again not judging, just giving my opinions.

 

[ukcatfan]

Not only would you likely be rejected if you ask for permission, you should feel honored if they even take the time out of their day to even reply to you with a rejection. They only work with major players that will bring them a profit. Contacting them at all is basically just placing a target on your back.

As for doing it, you will likely never get caught, but if they do, be warned that Disney is known for making examples out of the unfortunate ones. Are you really prepared for what that could mean? Their legal department is infamous for being ruthless with the protection of their properties. BTW... the Disney copyright police do read these forums, so you already gave them a little info on where to look for your work.

Your clients actually selling the pictures in their store would also be completely liable even if they had no idea they were breaking the law, so you would be risking their wellbeing as well.

Kevin