Copyright Dilemma

[Andy147]

Years ago, my dad made stained glass windows using many copyrighted cartoon characters. He always made them for my sister and me. He never sold any of his work.

Unfortunately, my children are all grown and I'd like to sell them on eBay or at a "crafts" fair as I no longer have a place to properly display them.

Can I legally sell them? I read something about "non wasteful disposal" regarding the sale of copywrited products.

Please help.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

CAVEAT:
. . . I AM NOT A COPYRIGHT LAWYER.
. . . HOWEVER, I DO HOLD (11) USA PATENTS and several foreign patents.
. . . FROM MY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE, ONLY.


1) Section 107 of the US Copyright Act allows Fair Use for parody or satire.
2) If you claim these as parody, I "think" you will be safe.
3) Especially since they were not initially created for profit.

 

[Theaberdeenkid]

You would need to ask a lawyer for a real answer. There are legal boards on the Web you can ask a question like that to licensed attorneys at little or no cost.

 

[seashoreCM]

You could write to the copyright holders (Disney, Warner Bros., etc.) and inquire what kind of license fee you could pay now, pointing out your circumstandes and that these are one of a kind items made some time ago. You might then get a "certificate of authenticity" that would be included with the item if/when sold.

If getting a license is too expensive, you would be restricted to giving away the items.

 

[writersblock42]

Not an attorney but I do have some legal background. Basically, first of all what you are doing is so small probably hardly anybody would notice. Also if the cartoon characters don't look exactly like the original ones you might be okay as well or as others have said if it is parody.

 

[csharpwv]

OK, so here is the way to get around this - you need to pair the items with something else you want to give away/get rid of.... say.... an old crock pot....

$50...obo... 12 quart crock pot - Free with purchase, a Mickey Mouse Stained Glass panel!

That way, you aren't selling anything that has a copyright attached!

I know, it's a bit of a stretch, but if you are not allowed by law to sell the items.... you aren't selling them - you are giving them away... with the purchase of another item!

Problem solved?! HAHA

 

[plummer925]

My mom used to own a store and made 'whirligigs' - she made ones that looked like characters. When someone would say "how much is the mickey mouse..." we'd reply "oh, that mouse is $..." we would NEVER call it by the copyright names.

Disney has and will come after people infringing upon their copyrights. Simply call it 'mouse' 'duck' or whatever - NOT the disney names. If a customer calls it by a disney name, I'd just say 'oh, it's not a Disney character, but I'm honored you associate it with that" or something like that. There have been times in the past that companies send their reps to shows and stuff to check on copyright infringement.

Oh - and it doesn't matter if YOU made them or not.

 

[manning]

My mom used to own a store and made 'whirligigs' - she made ones that looked like characters. When someone would say "how much is the mickey mouse..." we'd reply "oh, that mouse is $..." we would NEVER call it by the copyright names.

Disney has and will come after people infringing upon their copyrights. Simply call it 'mouse' 'duck' or whatever - NOT the disney names. If a customer calls it by a disney name, I'd just say 'oh, it's not a Disney character, but I'm honored you associate it with that" or something like that. There have been times in the past that companies send their reps to shows and stuff to check on copyright infringement.

Oh - and it doesn't matter if YOU made them or not.

What's that old saying? "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck flys like a duck, it must be a duck."

 

[wiigirl]

You would need to ask a lawyer for a real answer. There are legal boards on the Web you can ask a question like that to licensed attorneys at little or no cost.

 

[plummer925]

What's that old saying? "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck flys like a duck, it must be a duck."

Not at all - they only sort-of looked like the characters - meaning mice look like mice. The color schemes were not the same (the 'mouse' wore blue, not red, for instance). And that was not the only items that there were - I used those examples because they fit the question. There was also potatoes (not potato head - nothing like potato head - we live in Maine - we are known for potatoes) - that didn't stop people from calling them Mr. Potato Head (this was mid-1980's WAY before potato head was common) - they looked NOTHING like them, but people still called them that. There were also animal ones - loons, puffins, lobsters, etc. Nothing was made with the intention of copyright infringement - the things didn't even LOOK remotely like the characters. Like there really was no reason for someone to call the mouse Mickey, know what I mean?

 

[a742246]

Before you sell them you should ask your "children" if they want them. If they do give them as Christmas gifts. To your family they may be priceless items.

 

[cobright]

My formal education is in International Commerce. Intellectual Property Rights is a big part of that and a bit of a hobby of mine. That said, grain of salt and all that.

The direct answer is that you may not give them away or sell them if they were obtained illegally. This would include illegally copying the images and making stained glass patterns out of them.

But... there is likely some good news...

If you believe that the stained glass was cut from a legally purchased Disney licensed pattern book then there would be no legal issue. There were several Officially licensed disney stained glass pattern books available throughout the years unless your dad was unusually clever in this regard he probably had a pattern book.

Unless you know for certain that he created the patterns himself, I would assume that he used legally obtained patterns. In which case, you came into possession of the images legally and may dispose of them however you like.

To comply with trademark laws, you must be absolutely clear that the products were not manufactured by disney but that the images are of disney licensed characters.

 

[Theaberdeenkid]

My mom used to own a store and made 'whirligigs' - she made ones that looked like characters. When someone would say "how much is the mickey mouse..." we'd reply "oh, that mouse is $..." we would NEVER call it by the copyright names.

Disney has and will come after people infringing upon their copyrights. Simply call it 'mouse' 'duck' or whatever - NOT the disney names. If a customer calls it by a disney name, I'd just say 'oh, it's not a Disney character, but I'm honored you associate it with that" or something like that. There have been times in the past that companies send their reps to shows and stuff to check on copyright infringement.

Oh - and it doesn't matter if YOU made them or not.

In that line of logic. I can download all the music I want of all the popular groups and sell it and as long as I don't mention the name it's ok.
I can say I'm flattered you think it sounds like Katie Perry or Maroon5.

Anytime you here someone say "I'm not a lawyer but..." you should ignore them. Either get professional advice or don't, getting it after you have gotten nabbed is much, much more expensive.

"we would NEVER call it by the copyright names."
And FYI, images can be copyrighted also, calling an image of Mickey Mouse by another name is still infringement.

 

[plummer925]

In that line of logic. I can download all the music I want of all the popular groups and sell it and as long as I don't mention the name it's ok.
I can say I'm flattered you think it sounds like Katie Perry or Maroon5.

Anytime you here someone say "I'm not a lawyer but..." you should ignore them. Either get professional advice or don't, getting it after you have gotten nabbed is much, much more expensive.

"we would NEVER call it by the copyright names."
And FYI, images can be copyrighted also, calling an image of Mickey Mouse by another name is still infringement.

Please read my follow-up post.

FYI: My husband and I are artists and know copyright laws in and out.

 

[PrincessLiz]

Copyright.gov has a lot of faqs/ situations that you may find useful.

 

[Theaberdeenkid]

Please read my follow-up post.

FYI: My husband and I are artists and know copyright laws in and out.

I appreciate that, but you still aren't a lawyer. I hope you aren't reading my posts as trying to be harsh but I've known people who've taken legal advice from people who are not lawyers and it doesn't usually end well.
I will stand by my statement, if you're not a lawyer you shouldn't be handing out legal advice.

 

[cobright]

if you're not a lawyer you shouldn't be handing out legal advice.

Because only a lawyer's experience is worth listening to? Come on, no body asks a question on disboards thinking that the response will include sage legal advice.

With a question like this, I take it that the OP has never had to think about the issue before and is curious about what other people think about it. If your friend took a forum post for legal advice and got burned I have a hard time feeling sorry for him.

As it happens, plummer's advice is bad with regard to trademark law. A trademark right is infringed when the display of an image is likely to cause confusion about the creator of that image.

Even so, that poster's experience and understanding of the issue is still a relevant part of the conversation.

 

[Theaberdeenkid]

And so is ask a lawyer.

We have practicing attorneys in the family. My uncle once offered this advice.
1. Under no circumstances should you ever talk to the police without an attorney present. No matter if you are innocent and have nothing to worry about.
2. Never take legal advice from someone who isn't an attorney specializing in the field you need.

He seems to earn a lot of money from people who don't follow those simple rules.
So I'm not sure why you seem offended that I suggested that they seek advice on a simple question on a free legal board.

 

[cobright]

He seems to earn a lot of money from people who don't follow those simple rules.
So I'm not sure why you seem offended that I suggested that they seek advice on a simple question on a free legal board.

I'm sure he makes a lot of money from people that take that advice as well.

Neither here not there, I'm sorry that I came off as touchy. I'm not offended. I'm interested in intellectual property rights law and how those laws are understood by average people.

I think once the topic becomes 'real' to people, as in this posts premise, most people find the subject interesting as well. I don't like the idea of someone coming into a conversation and saying that it shouldn't exist. We all benefit from a marketplace of ideas.

 

[manning]

My formal education is in International Commerce. Intellectual Property Rights is a big part of that and a bit of a hobby of mine. That said, grain of salt and all that.

The direct answer is that you may not give them away or sell them if they were obtained illegally. This would include illegally copying the images and making stained glass patterns out of them.

But... there is likely some good news...

If you believe that the stained glass was cut from a legally purchased Disney licensed pattern book then there would be no legal issue. There were several Officially licensed disney stained glass pattern books available throughout the years unless your dad was unusually clever in this regard he probably had a pattern book.

Unless you know for certain that he created the patterns himself, I would assume that he used legally obtained patterns. In which case, you came into possession of the images legally and may dispose of them however you like.

To comply with trademark laws, you must be absolutely clear that the products were not manufactured by disney but that the images are of disney licensed characters.

maybe yes, maybe no.

I can't confirm this to be true. This was told to me by someone who owns a brothers embroidery sewing machine. It is the only company that hold a license from Disney to embroider Disney characters using pattern(s) in the machine.

They said they were wearing an embroidered mickey tee shirt. they were approached in the magic kingdom and told to remove the shirt. If they refused they would be escorted from the park.

That was crazy. They could make it, but not wear it.