Copper Creek and Riviera

[Disneylover2021]

Hello everyone! I have been reading a lot and gaining a lot of insight from the posts on this thread, and I have a few questions of my own.

We are planning to buy soon and have narrowed it down to either 300 points at Riviera (broken into 2 or 3 smaller contracts) or half at Copper Creek and half at Riviera. We would be purchasing direct and taking advantage of the incentives they currently have for these properties (our guide is going to get back to us regarding how/if they can somehow split the promotion if we do both resorts so we could get some incentive for buying 300 points total, since it is substantially less per point). We have already run the numbers for about a billion scenarios (including resale options) and this is what we have landed on based on a bunch of factors. That said, I would love to hear your opinions/perspectives on a few things.

[We originally wanted to only buy into Riviera, but we are now considering doing 1/2 Copper Creek as it may be a bit "safer" from a financial perspective, so most of my questions have to do with my concerns about Copper Creek.]

1. Do you think Copper Creek will hold resale value better than Riviera since it doesn't have the same resale restrictions. I'm thinking it will be worth even more than some of the other ones that are currently super desirable on the resale market in 20-30 years as they start to replace old legacy resorts with new/renovated ones (potentially changing the contracts), and there will be less resales to buy that offer the ability to change resorts at the 7 month mark. I'm hoping that will bode well for the future, but I could be way off! (We are not buying with the intention to sell, but life happens and we want to be prepared).

2. For those who have stayed at Copper Creek, how did you feel about the rooms? We will be either staying in a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom, but they seem substantially smaller than the others. My in-laws own at Boardwalk so I have stayed there A LOT... Copper Creek seems smaller than those ones, and those ones even feel small to me sometimes. I don't mind the size as long as the space is useable. I was just curious what others thought!

3. Please tell me about the boat to Magic Kingdom from Wilderness Lodge! My dream initially was to buy at Bay Lake Tower to have prime access to Magic Kingdom (I don't love buses and I really don't like parking at the TTC). But that's not going to work out for a few reasons so I'm wondering how much less convenient the boat ride will be (obviously nothing beats walking to the park, but I've already accepted that's not an option). I am familiar with the boats to/from Epcot and Hollywood studios and I don't love those either... I hate taking apart the stroller, waiting in the blazing sun for a long time and then making like 3 stops before reaching the final destination. I've heard the Wilderness Lodge boat is a faster and comes more frequently, but curious to hear from people who have done it. Also, is the boat to the Contemporary the same one or different? Is that one direct?

4. Are there a lot of mosquitos at Copper Creek in the warmer months? Love the idea of walking/running on the trail to Fort Wilderness but wondering about the mosquito situation.

Thank you so much! Any advice or insight is appreciated!

 

[Sandisw]

I think it is hard to say about resale value for RIV because so far, it’s doing pretty well given how different a product it is. I don’t think we have enough to know for sure, and some of us who predicated it would never get a decent price are finding those predictions not correct. Right now, both are averaging pretty similar...although CCV is creeping up.

I don’t know the difference between direct prices, but be sure to consider that when looking at what they possible difference might be down the line.

Having said all that, I am one who really doesn’t think resale value should be a big part of the equation, especially if it means one decides for a resort that isn’t there top one.

One of the big pluses at CCV is the point charts is less than RIV so getting some home resort advantage there as well as at RIV can be nice, especially if you want to travel during the holidays, CCV is really popular then!

In terms of the boats, we have never found them to come more frequently than the ones at BWV area. Waits were always similar..15 to 20 minutes if we just missed it. In the mornings and at park closing they tend to use larger boats then what is used during the day,

The boat to/from Contemporary....not currently running...are the smaller boats and again, come every 20 minutes or so..as they do the loop between CR, FW, and WL.

Never found bugs to be an issue the few times we have stayed there, we too prefer the ease to/from parks and much prefer to be at VGF or BLT when we are in the MK area.

Of course, I own and love RIV and think that part of your plan is such a great choice because it does give you a chance to get a SV room to cushion the points costs, not to mention the size of the rooms, the Skyliner, the options for Quck service. Primo Plato is really good but you also have CBR food options with a quick walk!

We also do split stays every trip for the specific reason to stay in each area so having RIV and BLT...along with SSR to use as sleep around points allows us to stay in both areas!

 

[RivShore]

On your room size question, Riviera is somewhere around 20% bigger for the rooms your looking at. Here's an easy chart to compare the rooms:

https://easywdwforums.com/threads/dvc-rooms-charts-with-detailed-room-info.20457/

 

[nomorethan8]

1. Who knows. CC has better resale privileges. You would think it would have a better resale value if that was the only factor.
2. We just got done with a week at CC with 8 people. 3 adults and 5 kids of various ages. Very usable.
3. Boats are nice. Weather can force boats to stop and the bus will take over. You will share a bus with the Fort Wilderness Resort. A relatively short ride from MK.
4. Mosquitoes were not an issue in August while we were there. The path between the Lodge and the Fort is closed until they figure out what to so with the former Reflections DVC construction site that is now stopped and rumored canceled. So no running.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Both resorts are beautiful resorts. CCV is a prime resort for the holidays. I like the idea of buying both resorts as you get the access to three parks. Point chart for RIV is steep while CCV has the traditional point chart. 1 and 2 bedrooms should not be hard to book in the 11 month window. We love the relaxed feel of the resort.
In terms of resale, who knows. Yes, CCV will probably hold a better resale due to the ability to book other DVC resorts.

 

[sethschroeder]

I would stick with all points at a single resort honestly. I am not a big fan of split stays and such though so if you want to split your stay I guess go for it.

We originally wanted to only buy into Riviera, but we are now considering doing 1/2 Copper Creek as it may be a bit "safer" from a financial perspective, so most of my questions have to do with my concerns about Copper Creek.]

Except Riviera is cheaper upfront and closing slowly the gap on MFs and will take like 30 years to be the "same" cost. If you sell before the halfway point you will be ahead with Riviera to start.

1. Do you think Copper Creek will hold resale value better than Riviera since it doesn't have the same resale restrictions.

In 20 years time every Epcot resort will be inside the resale restrictions. The only resorts to "move" to will be around MK or the lesser desired AKV/SSR/OKW. So in the end its going to get very hard to move to those historical MK resorts likely and resale buyers will likely migrate to buying where they want to stay primarily.

Also hard to book studios will impact resale pricing at CCV long term as people avoid it.

Copper Creek seems smaller

CCV has THE smallest 1BR and 2BR at WDW. We are talking about over 25% smaller than Riviera rooms.

3. Please tell me about the boat to Magic Kingdom from Wilderness Lodge!

Its not about the boat its about the 3 other parks that you need to take a bus to. The reason I like Riviera is that you have skyliner (yes it can have issues) access to 2 parks and Epcot for us is a great evening park to visit for dinners and just hop to instead of spending all day at.

If you spend over half your trip at MK though I could see it. I just personally spend that much time there we hit it roughly 4 out of 10 days with a couple of those days ending at Epcot anyways.

4. Are there a lot of mosquitos at Copper Creek in the warmer months? Love the idea of walking/running on the trail to Fort Wilderness but wondering about the mosquito situation.

The trail might come back up at some point but pretty sure was taken out for the new construction that is now not happening. If you want a running/walking area you can go all around the lake for Riviera. Lots of variations and even the little island to relax on.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

I love both resorts for the reasons others have stated. My only concern is not having enough points at each resort to book the larger room categories. If the borrowing restrictions stay in place, you'll have to do split stays every time or settle for shorter/smaller accommodations. IDK if it's possible to bump up the points to 200 per resort maybe? I know, it's a gulp moment cost-wise, but I will say, we have added on our first trip to RR and are already kicking ourselves we didn't get more points. I think these prices may look like a bargain very soon. I don't see a market correction of prices tumbling. Just my $0.02. I have been looking at resale for years, and it goes up, up, up, and direct is the same. I don't know what the ceiling is, but I am guessing it's close to $300 direct and $200 resale in the next few years for Poly and CC.

One other thing to consider, again, just my opinion, but I don't think the RR point chart is an anomaly. I think they're getting us used to this point chart for the DL DVC tower coming that will sell out. By the time we get to the next WDW DVC, all the Epcot resorts will be closing in on -20 years left, and OKW, who knows. They can start the higher charts to get ready to tear down and rebuild at much higher costs for those Epcot DVCs coming in 2030.

 

[Brian Noble]

1: I would not buy based on what the resale value might be 20-30 years from now. A lot can change---for you and for DVC---that makes this really hard to predict. I'd rather make my buying decision assuming that my contract would be worthless when I am done with it. If the purchase still makes sense, then any residual value is gravy. On the other hand, if the purchase only makes sense with a particular resale value, you're betting on a particular future. Maybe that happens, but maybe it doesn't.

3: WL<->MK transportation has been great for me. I tend to take the bus at rope drop. WL's location means that's maybe a 5 minute drive, if that, with no other stops. But the boat is a lovely way to get back and forth, and helps WL feel like it's a world away from the hustle and bustle of the parks.

4: I've been at a couple times in summer, including a week at BRV. I don't remember much in the way of bugs at all. I don't really want to think about what WDW must do to keep the mosquito population under control, but I'm glad they do. ;-)

 

[kanerf]

I own at BRV and RIV. I often swap a BRV for CCV at the 7 month mark, so have stayed there a number of times as well. I am a big fan of a walk-in shower and both CCV and RIV have these in studios which is a big plus for me. I would think about splitting between the two. I personally enjoy split stays and do them every trip.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I still vote for both resorts and buying direct you can use the points at each resort. Borrowing restrictions will lift next year probably. So you could do one year at RIV the next at CCV. Points do not go far at RIV and I imagine std. View rooms will be tought to get even for owners once the resort sells out and then combine that with resale restrictions. I own at The Floridian and std view studios are difficult even in the 11 month window.

 

[DVCsloth]

I like the idea of both resorts as well. I would check the point charts and see if you have enough points for the room type and date that you would most likely travel. You may or may not be able to use you 2nd resorts points if you need more to book 7-11 monts out. Both are awesome resorts!

 

[MICKIMINI]

Why not buy 125 direct at RIV to get your blue card and take less risk with resale of a smaller contract, and then buy a CCV resale? We're still in since 1996 so you may be around for 20-30 years. IMO CCV will be quite valuable as the other monorail resorts and 2042 resorts are retired/rebuilt and resold.

The resort grounds are spectacular! Quiet pool is lovely. We love to walk through the grounds at nights with the lights flickering and sound of crickets. The boat is very convenient and so much nicer than a bus. Just my opinion so good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[Bjaiken77]

I visited both a couple weeks ago. I think I prefer CCV but that RIV skyliner is a game changer for Epcot and Hollywood Studios. We were staying at Beach Club and went to Topolino’s for dinner. Honestly, coming back from RIV only took slightly longer to get to the international gateway than walking from BCV. That’s kind of a game changer. When we travel, it’ll often just be my significant other and I. The option to grab a tower when we are not spending much time in the room is a good way to save points. Anyhow, I feel you in the difficulty in deciding. Sometimes it’s so hard to choose what to buy.

 

[RoseGold]

I plan to hold maybe 10 years, so resale CCV would be a no-brainer.

If you plan to hold this or pass it down to your two kids or whatever, this might not be as straightforward. Depends on your exit strategy.

 

[havoc315]

Hello everyone! I have been reading a lot and gaining a lot of insight from the posts on this thread, and I have a few questions of my own.

We are planning to buy soon and have narrowed it down to either 300 points at Riviera (broken into 2 or 3 smaller contracts) or half at Copper Creek and half at Riviera. We would be purchasing direct and taking advantage of the incentives they currently have for these properties (our guide is going to get back to us regarding how/if they can somehow split the promotion if we do both resorts so we could get some incentive for buying 300 points total, since it is substantially less per point). We have already run the numbers for about a billion scenarios (including resale options) and this is what we have landed on based on a bunch of factors. That said, I would love to hear your opinions/perspectives on a few things.

[We originally wanted to only buy into Riviera, but we are now considering doing 1/2 Copper Creek as it may be a bit "safer" from a financial perspective, so most of my questions have to do with my concerns about Copper Creek.]

1. Do you think Copper Creek will hold resale value better than Riviera since it doesn't have the same resale restrictions. I'm thinking it will be worth even more than some of the other ones that are currently super desirable on the resale market in 20-30 years as they start to replace old legacy resorts with new/renovated ones (potentially changing the contracts), and there will be less resales to buy that offer the ability to change resorts at the 7 month mark. I'm hoping that will bode well for the future, but I could be way off! (We are not buying with the intention to sell, but life happens and we want to be prepared).

Honestly, I suspect in 20-30 years, the resale restrictions will be irrelevant. By then, there will likely be different sets of restrictions on re-sale all over the place. Additionally, even if the rules stay the same as they are now, there will only be a few remaining "original unrestricted" resorts. Meaning, those re-sale CCV points would only be usable at a handful of resorts.

So I'd remove "long term resale" value from the equation entirely.

To me, the great value of splitting the contracts would be the ability to have home resort advantages both in the Magic Kingdom area and the Epcot/DHS area.

3. Please tell me about the boat to Magic Kingdom from Wilderness Lodge!

As you suggested, nothing beats walking. Even a short bus ride or short boat ride still entails having to get to the bus stop/boat dock, and often waiting 15-20 minutes.

My objection to Wilderness Lodge has always been its isolation. There is no super quick easy way to get to parks or other resort areas. During normal times, there is the boat to the Contemporary. But as others have stated, it's often a long wait.

I've always ranked transportation as:
1. Monorail resorts -- For the convenience of monorail not just to Magic Kingdom, but also to each other. And from each, you can now walk to MK or to each other. The resort monorail always seems to run more often than buses/boats.
2. Beach Club / Boardwalk / Yacht Club. The boats stink, but the ability to WALK to 2 parks, and to walk between the resorts (and Swan and Dolphin)
3. Riviera and CBR -- Sadly, no walking except between Riviera and CBR. But skyliner is always loading. Outside of peak times, there really isn't a wait. So very easy to hop on in the evening if you want to have dinner in the Boardwalk area, for example.
4. Wilderness Lodge, CCV, BRV -- well, you can take a boat to Magic Kingdom and to the Contemporary. That gives a little flexibility. But all transportation to any park or to any resort is going to require waiting around for a bus or boat.
5. Sarasota Springs - At least you can walk to Disney Springs for dining.
6. OKW and AKL/AKV -- nothing you can walk to. Internal bus loops. Bus stops often far from the rooms.