Converting Religions

[esdras]

I posted way back on page one, and just noticed that this thread popped back up.

To all of the former Catholics who have stated that they were discouraged from reading the Bible - I will sadly admit that there were many priests (and still are, I would guess) who wouldn't encourage parishoners to read the Bible.

This was fom a news article about a year ago... show it to ANY priest who discourages a Catholic from reading the Scriptures.

POPE-AUDIENCE Nov-14-2007 (460 words) With photos. xxxi

Pope, at audience, encourages Christians to read Bible

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- To know God and to know how to live their lives, Christians must read the Bible, Pope Benedict XVI said.

"Drawing close to the biblical texts, especially the New Testament, is essential for believers because 'ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ,'" the pope said, quoting St. Jerome.

At his Nov. 14 weekly general audience, the pope continued a talk begun the week before about the importance of the teaching of St. Jerome, the fourth-century doctor of the church.

Reading the Bible teaches believers the way they are to live their lives, the pope said, but the Scriptures must be read in a spirit of prayer and must be understood the way the church understands them.

"For Jerome, a fundamental criterion for the interpretation of Scriptures was harmony with the magisterium of the church," he said.

Pope Benedict said the books of the Bible "were written by the people of God, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit," so "only in harmony with the faith of this people can we understand the sacred Scripture."

The pope said St. Jerome also emphasized the importance of "a healthy, integrated education" in religion, morality and culture for all Christians, including women, which was unusual in ancient times.

St. Jerome, he said, recognized the "right of women to have a complete human, scholastic, religious and professional formation."

Education, the pope said, especially regarding one's "responsibilities before God and other human beings, is the real prerequisite for true progress, peace, reconciliation and the exclusion of all violence."

"The sacred Scriptures offer us guidance for education and, therefore, for true humanism," the pope said.

Immediately after the audience, Pope Benedict went up to his private chapel in the Apostolic Palace to venerate the relics of St. Therese of Lisieux, the 19th-century Carmelite saint. Pope John Paul II proclaimed her a doctor of the church in 1997.

The relics were brought to Rome by the bishop of Bayeux, France, to mark the 120th anniversary of St. Therese's trip to Rome at the age of 15 to ask Pope Leo XIII for permission to enter the Carmelite order. Pope Leo told her the local Carmelite superior would have to decide if she could enter despite her young age. She was admitted to the convent in 1888.

Pope Benedict told the estimated 13,000 people at his audience, "St. Therese wanted to learn the biblical languages to better read the Scriptures. Imitating her and the example of St. Jerome, take time to read the Bible regularly."

Now, what IS true is that lay Catholics are not allowed to interpret the Scriptures for themselves. Although a person can get personal meaning from reading the Bible, they are not to form doctrinal positions - such as deciding that since the OT said to stone rebellious children, that will become your new method of discipline. Okay, that was extreme - but you get the idea.

On the other hand, most Protestant churches operate in the same manner - unofficially. I'm sure that any individual member of a church who openly presented a personal interpretation of the Scriptures that weren't in agreement with what that particular church/pastor thought/taught - and did so continuously - likely wouldn't stick with that church very long.

Anyway, that's beside the point.

Catholics can - and should - read the Scriptures. I've read the Bible cover to cover a couple of times, including all the apocryphal/deutero-canonical books from both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

Sorry for ranting - I simply have a serious pet-peeve in terms of old-school priests.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I wanted to add to my story:

I experienced a severe instance of spiritual abuse at the hands of my former church that reinforced my decision. The town where I go to school is very rural with some truly conservative values. I couldn't find a SBC church, so I attended an independent Baptist Church. The preacher was wack-a-do, but it was tiny (20 people total) and the ladies had a really great fellowship and kind of adopted me. Ever Wednesday night he preached a different Psalm (In order) and literally every single one of them was about the end of the world. Before I started attending there had been a split and half the members had left with a younger pastor over the old pastor's very archaic values (women couldn't even make motions in meetings). There were many hurt feeligns because some people left without saying goodbye.

I made my decision to convert over the summer and did not want to just leave without saying goodbye. When I got back I popped in before a Wednesday night service to tell them I would no longer be attending. I informed the preacher that I felt God was calling me elsewhere and I would no longer attend the church. I knew how he felt about Catholics so I wasn't planning to tell him, but he asked where I was going. When I told him that I was becoming Catholic he proceeded to scream me out in front of the entire congregation.

He told me that I was young when I was saved and must no have known what I was doing or ever been truly saved (the worst thing you can say to a Baptist), he told me the Pope was the Antichrist and the Catholic Church was the ***** of Babylon. He told me that Catholics kill Christians in other countries where they can get away with it, etc. etc. He then told me to wait there and went back and got a Baptist catechism which he proceeded to throw at my head.

I was a wreck, I couldn't drive I was crying so hard. I did not agree with most of his teachings, but I had respected him as a man of God. No more. What hurt the most was that this was done in front of the congregation with whom I had become very close. I drove to my Campus's Newman Center and spoke with our priest who was miraculously there. He really helped me to overcome it, though I admittedly still have some negative feelings when I think of that night.

 

[esdras]

I wanted to add to my story:

I'm so sorry that you had to go through something like that.

Sadly, Christianity has its share of jerks - and you'll find them in every denomination.

Point blank - judging from what you wrote, and the description of how you are on your own spiritual journey - and doing so prayerfully and thoughtfully - I just want to say something to you...

Don't EVER let anyone call in to question your salvation!

Salvation is by the grace of God alone. Do ANY of us deserve to be saved... NO. But thank God, because He is merciful. Anyone who thinks that they can tell who is and who isn't saved is sadly mistaken... and I doubt God would appreciate any one of us second guessing His decisions.

Christians like your former pastor - I seriously wish they would either convert away from Christianity or come up with another name for whatever it is they consider to be thier faith. Basically, they're the ones that give Christianity a bad name.

 

[Seewhatimesdone]

This whole thread is just switching denominations basically. I understand that there is a considerable difference between Christianity and Catholocism but has anyone else converted from another religion that was entirely different? I'm feeling lonely

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Thank you. I know it sounds bad, but when I found out he died from cancer (he was in his late 70's) I really wasn't that upset about it. I've actually considered going back for a service or two now that they have a new pastor. I've seen several of those women outside of the church since then and they have been nothing but nice to me. One worked in my dorm cafeteria and would ask me how things were going on the conversion front. She was always ver nice and sincere, for which I was grateful.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

This whole thread is just switching denominations basically. I understand that there is a considerable difference between Christianity and Catholocism but has anyone else converted from another religion that was entirely different? I'm feeling lonely

I respectfully request that you rephrase your post. I know you do not mean to be offensive, but Catholicism is a form of Christianity. There is a major difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, and I have a feeling that is what you mean to say.

I'm sorry, but that is just a touchy subject for me for reasons posted above.

 

[esdras]

Just wanted to add this - I've kept a copy of this cartoon since I first saw it...

 

[Seewhatimesdone]

I respectfully request that you rephrase your post. I know you do not mean to be offensive, but Catholicism is a form of Christianity. There is a major difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, and I have a feeling that is what you mean to say.

I'm sorry, but that is just a touchy subject for me for reasons posted above.

I'm sorry, that's what I meant to say. I get a little confused about all the denominations of Christianity. I don't know what the difference between Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. is. I just know about Catholicism and Christianity. Please forgive my stupidness!

 

[esdras]

I'm sorry, that's what I meant to say. I get a little confused about all the denominations of Christianity. I don't know what the difference between Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. is. I just know about Catholicism and Christianity. Please forgive my stupidness!

Don't feel too bad - it can be very confusing.

Christianity can generally be divided in to the following divisions - which may (and do) contain many denominations.

1. Catholicism - contrary to what many think, there is more than one Catholic denomination. There are Latin Rite Catholics - commonly called Roman Catholics, and Eastern Rite Catholics - which include, for example, Ukranian Catholic Churches. These are both in full communion with the Vatican. There are other offshoot Catholic sects - like "Old Catholic Church" - which doesn't believe that there has been a valid Pope since before Vatican II. They still say the Mass in Latin and are not in union with Rome at all
2. Orthodoxy - again, more than one denomination here. The two most commonly known Orthodox Churches would be the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox. Interestingly, the Orthodox Churches have a lot of similarities with Eastern Rite Catholic Churches.
3. Mainstream Protestant Churches - essentially the "oldest" Protestant denominations such as Episcopalians/Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. Many would include Methodists in this group too, even though some Methodist Churches share similarities with the next division.
4. Evangelical Protestant Churches - while this group includes some well-known denominations such as Baptists, you will also find in this group non-denominational community evangelical churches.
5. Pentecostal Churches - sometimes they are grouped in with the Evangelical Protestant Churches, but some ecclesial theologians have argued that their practice of Christianity is sufficiently distinct to warrant a separate category.

Okay, now to really mess things up... The above five groups can - theoretically - get along with each other. They all have, for the most part, the same "Christology" - that is, they all consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, fully human and fully divine and a part of the Holy Trinity.

There are some churches that consider themselves to be Christian, yet have a slightly different - in one way or another - view of Christ. Included in this group are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses. While both of those Churches consider themselves to be Christian, most of the 5 groups above do not agree with that view.

Anyway, I hope that helped a little.

 

[JennaTX]

We are looking for a new church.

DH was raised Catholic, I was raised Baptist.

He really does not care too much where we go to church.

But I am going to have to leave the Baptist church because they do not recognize the Catholic Christening (sp?). For DH to join the Baptist church he would have to be baptized.

So we are looking at a Methodist church which seems to be more in the middle and where we could join and both be members with our beliefs that we grew up with.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Praying to the Saints for help - if ANYONE told you that the saints can help you directly, they are 100% wrong. A saint can only pray with or for you - to "intercede" on your behalf with God. No different than if you asked me to pray with or for you. God then acts, NOT the saint. Anyone who tells you differently is wrong. Period. If you can't tell, this is one of my biggest pet peeves in terms of Catholic misconceptions

As a Catholic, this is also one of my pet peeves.

 

[disneyholic family]

Don't feel too bad - it can be very confusing.

Christianity can generally be divided in to the following divisions - which may (and do) contain many denominations.

1. Catholicism - contrary to what many think, there is more than one Catholic denomination. There are Latin Rite Catholics - commonly called Roman Catholics, and Eastern Rite Catholics - which include, for example, Ukranian Catholic Churches. These are both in full communion with the Vatican. There are other offshoot Catholic sects - like "Old Catholic Church" - which doesn't believe that there has been a valid Pope since before Vatican II. They still say the Mass in Latin and are not in union with Rome at all
2. Orthodoxy - again, more than one denomination here. The two most commonly known Orthodox Churches would be the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox. Interestingly, the Orthodox Churches have a lot of similarities with Eastern Rite Catholic Churches.
3. Mainstream Protestant Churches - essentially the "oldest" Protestant denominations such as Episcopalians/Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. Many would include Methodists in this group too, even though some Methodist Churches share similarities with the next division.
4. Evangelical Protestant Churches - while this group includes some well-known denominations such as Baptists, you will also find in this group non-denominational community evangelical churches.
5. Pentecostal Churches - sometimes they are grouped in with the Evangelical Protestant Churches, but some ecclesial theologians have argued that their practice of Christianity is sufficiently distinct to warrant a separate category.

Okay, now to really mess things up... The above five groups can - theoretically - get along with each other. They all have, for the most part, the same "Christology" - that is, they all consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, fully human and fully divine and a part of the Holy Trinity.

There are some churches that consider themselves to be Christian, yet have a slightly different - in one way or another - view of Christ. Included in this group are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses. While both of those Churches consider themselves to be Christian, most of the 5 groups above do not agree with that view.

Anyway, I hope that helped a little.

nice, thanks

 

[hpygrll]

I love this thread - it's very informative.

I was raised United Methodist. After I had our boys, I joined an ELCA Lutheran Church and we love it there. My boys go to Catholic school and I love learning about everything there. The parish is great, the parents are great. I'm so fascinated by everything there. So I'm contemplating doing RICA....but it's such a change that I'm afraid - we'll see.

Jenny

 

[rie'smom]

Now, what IS true is that lay Catholics are not allowed to interpret the Scriptures for themselves. Although a person can get personal meaning from reading the Bible, they are not to form doctrinal positions - such as deciding that since the OT said to stone rebellious children, that will become your new method of discipline. Okay, that was extreme - but you get the idea.

Our priests encourage reading the Bible. A few of them host Bible studies.

I just wanted to reply to your post. As a Catholic myself, it always saddens me when someone leaves Catholicism for some of the reasons you have outlined - because a number of them are misconceptions or outright inaccuracies. On the other hand, you also said you weren't feeling spiritually nourished in the Catholic Church. While that saddens me too, it's for the fact that you couldn't find a community that encouraged your spiritual growth. Leaving for a church where you could grow spiritually is absolutely the right thing to do - I have no problems with that at all.

Now, I don't want to insult anyone, but asking some of these big theological questions of Catholic clergy or nuns isn't necessarily going to get you good answers. The clergy have (usually) a Master's of Divinity Degree - which trains them to be ministers and gives then a foundation in Church teachings (though not necessarily the reasoning behind some of them).

Personally, I have a BA Specializing in Catholic Studies (minors in Politics and - almost done - History). I've also nearly completed my thesis that will give me an MA in Theology. In other words, I have academic training in Christianity as opposed to ministerial training - and I can tell you that a number of things you mentioned aren't accurate. If any Catholic clergy told you those things, you can tell them that they are wrong.

1. The real presense of Christ in the Eucharist is somewhat complex - it relies on Aristotelian Logic and the concept of Substance and Accidents. However, that wasn't one of my major concerns with what you had been told.
2. Confession (usually called Reconcilliation now) - the Priest technically confirms rather than grants forgiveness - but I'll agree that it should be worded like they do in Eastern Rite Catholic Churches where they say "You are absolved in the name..." rather than "I absolve you in the name..." It has also changed a lot - I haven't been given "Penance" in years - instead, I have spoken with a priest about some of my struggles (let's say anger, for example), and he has suggested some books that could help and other things to move me beyond my sins. I think of it now like free Christian counselling. On the other hand, I disagree that it must be mandatory - I like the Anglican (Episcopalian) view of Reconcilliation - All may, some should, none must.
3. Praying to the Saints for help - if ANYONE told you that the saints can help you directly, they are 100% wrong. A saint can only pray with or for you - to "intercede" on your behalf with God. No different than if you asked me to pray with or for you. God then acts, NOT the saint. Anyone who tells you differently is wrong. Period. If you can't tell, this is one of my biggest pet peeves in terms of Catholic misconceptions.

Anyway, those were some of the main things you mentioned. While I don't expect you to return to Catholicism (and if you don't find yourself growing spiritually there, you really shouldn't) - I just wanted to clear up some of the misinformation you have been given.

I'm really not trying to sound egotistical here - but with my academic training, I actually know far more about Catholicism and Christianity on a theological standpoint than the vast majority of the priests I know.

I guess there are people who don't know all the facts of their respective faiths. We were taught the same as you that Saints intercede.

We pray and ask for Mary's intercession, we aren't worshiping her. She's our Mother and we ask for her help. She is not a goddess.

 

[Nik's Mom]

A good UM church in your area: http://www.cor.org/

They do have video of an online sermon. As a lifelong Methodist who has only attended a Catholic Christmas Eve mass I can't comment on the differences as compared to a normal mass. Typically there is an old testament lesson and a new testament lesson and they somehow tie in with the service.
Communion is a monthly event at my church, but each congregation is different. As to why, I found this as a good (and fitting) explanation:



If you're curious, by all means try it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

You are actually the second Dis'r to recommend that particular church to me. It must be good. I will have to check it out tomorrow morning. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Seewhatimesdone]

Don't feel too bad - it can be very confusing.

Christianity can generally be divided in to the following divisions - which may (and do) contain many denominations.

1. Catholicism - contrary to what many think, there is more than one Catholic denomination. There are Latin Rite Catholics - commonly called Roman Catholics, and Eastern Rite Catholics - which include, for example, Ukranian Catholic Churches. These are both in full communion with the Vatican. There are other offshoot Catholic sects - like "Old Catholic Church" - which doesn't believe that there has been a valid Pope since before Vatican II. They still say the Mass in Latin and are not in union with Rome at all
2. Orthodoxy - again, more than one denomination here. The two most commonly known Orthodox Churches would be the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox. Interestingly, the Orthodox Churches have a lot of similarities with Eastern Rite Catholic Churches.
3. Mainstream Protestant Churches - essentially the "oldest" Protestant denominations such as Episcopalians/Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. Many would include Methodists in this group too, even though some Methodist Churches share similarities with the next division.
4. Evangelical Protestant Churches - while this group includes some well-known denominations such as Baptists, you will also find in this group non-denominational community evangelical churches.
5. Pentecostal Churches - sometimes they are grouped in with the Evangelical Protestant Churches, but some ecclesial theologians have argued that their practice of Christianity is sufficiently distinct to warrant a separate category.

Okay, now to really mess things up... The above five groups can - theoretically - get along with each other. They all have, for the most part, the same "Christology" - that is, they all consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, fully human and fully divine and a part of the Holy Trinity.

There are some churches that consider themselves to be Christian, yet have a slightly different - in one way or another - view of Christ. Included in this group are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses. While both of those Churches consider themselves to be Christian, most of the 5 groups above do not agree with that view.

Anyway, I hope that helped a little.

Actually that's very helpful! In Judaism we just have three branches which basically believe the same thing but have thier differences in practice. So I guess that's pretty much the same kind of thing. When I was raised Christian growing up I don't think we really had a denomination. I was just a small church where anyone could come. Maybe I just missed it I'd take a guess and just say Evangelical though

 

[Rella Bella]

I love this thread - it's very informative.

I was raised United Methodist. After I had our boys, I joined an ELCA Lutheran Church and we love it there. My boys go to Catholic school and I love learning about everything there. The parish is great, the parents are great. I'm so fascinated by everything there. So I'm contemplating doing RICA....but it's such a change that I'm afraid - we'll see.

Jenny

If you are interested I highly encourage you to talk to the director of RCIA. Just talking to him/her will give you a lot of information. Plus I know at our parish the first several weeks of RCIA classes are just informational.

When we went through we first met with the director, then attended a meeting to ask initial questions, then about the first six weeks of the actual classes were dedicated to giving us enough information to be able to make a decision about whether we want to continue toward converting. At that point they held a retreat to give everyone time to find out if we were certain we wanted to continue.

Then there were about 4 months of classes leading up to Easter. A few weeks before Easter another retreat was held to again give us a chance to search our heart and be sure we were comfortable with our decision.

Every step in the process is aimed at you carefully considering the next step, so there is no risk in beginning the process. It was one of the best faith experiences I've had. I encourage you to go for it.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I'm sorry, that's what I meant to say. I get a little confused about all the denominations of Christianity. I don't know what the difference between Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. is. I just know about Catholicism and Christianity. Please forgive my stupidness!

All is forgiven. I figured that is what you meant. I guess I should explain better why I (and others) tend to find that statement offensive. As you might guess from my post about what my preacher did to me, there are some in the far right denominations who do not consider Catholics to be Christians and are actuall yquite mean about it.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Don't feel too bad - it can be very confusing.

Christianity can generally be divided in to the following divisions - which may (and do) contain many denominations.

1. Catholicism - contrary to what many think, there is more than one Catholic denomination. There are Latin Rite Catholics - commonly called Roman Catholics, and Eastern Rite Catholics - which include, for example, Ukranian Catholic Churches. These are both in full communion with the Vatican. There are other offshoot Catholic sects - like "Old Catholic Church" - which doesn't believe that there has been a valid Pope since before Vatican II. They still say the Mass in Latin and are not in union with Rome at all
2. Orthodoxy - again, more than one denomination here. The two most commonly known Orthodox Churches would be the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox. Interestingly, the Orthodox Churches have a lot of similarities with Eastern Rite Catholic Churches.
3. Mainstream Protestant Churches - essentially the "oldest" Protestant denominations such as Episcopalians/Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. Many would include Methodists in this group too, even though some Methodist Churches share similarities with the next division.
4. Evangelical Protestant Churches - while this group includes some well-known denominations such as Baptists, you will also find in this group non-denominational community evangelical churches.
5. Pentecostal Churches - sometimes they are grouped in with the Evangelical Protestant Churches, but some ecclesial theologians have argued that their practice of Christianity is sufficiently distinct to warrant a separate category.

Okay, now to really mess things up... The above five groups can - theoretically - get along with each other. They all have, for the most part, the same "Christology" - that is, they all consider Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, fully human and fully divine and a part of the Holy Trinity.

There are some churches that consider themselves to be Christian, yet have a slightly different - in one way or another - view of Christ. Included in this group are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses. While both of those Churches consider themselves to be Christian, most of the 5 groups above do not agree with that view.

Anyway, I hope that helped a little.

Don't forget Coptic christians

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/copticchristians.htm

 

[hpygrll]

If you are interested I highly encourage you to talk to the director of RCIA. Just talking to him/her will give you a lot of information. Plus I know at our parish the first several weeks of RCIA classes are just informational.

When we went through we first met with the director, then attended a meeting to ask initial questions, then about the first six weeks of the actual classes were dedicated to giving us enough information to be able to make a decision about whether we want to continue toward converting. At that point they held a retreat to give everyone time to find out if we were certain we wanted to continue.

Then there were about 4 months of classes leading up to Easter. A few weeks before Easter another retreat was held to again give us a chance to search our heart and be sure we were comfortable with our decision.

Every step in the process is aimed at you carefully considering the next step, so there is no risk in beginning the process. It was one of the best faith experiences I've had. I encourage you to go for it.

Thank you! I may start next year - the class time is the same time as my current church so I would definitely be missing that but I may do that.

Jenny