Consequences or not. . .that is the question?

[Tess]

If you had a high school student who had always been a 4.0 until now and he/she brought home a progress report with As in three rather simple subjects and Bs in the other three more difficult core subjects (one of which was nearly and could be by now a C), would you institute consequences for poor performance? You must assume the child is fully capable of maintaining a 4.0 and therefore realize the child has not been putting forth the appropriate amount of effort to maintain the GPA.

I realize it's a very high standard, but if the child is capable of that standard, should parents expect less? If so, how low would you be willing to see the grades slide before consequences were appropriate?

I'm struggling with this one as you might well guess. . .frankly, I'm pretty well ticked off that the problems weren't addressed by the child when they first developed. I know, I know, a B is still a good grade--but she is, and has proven she can be, capable of better work.

What do you think? Am I a terrible taskmaster? An overbearing parent?

 

[MosMom]

She has proved in the past she is capable of A's but she wasn't in the courses she is in now which are probably harder. I wouldn't get mad about B's. That, to me, seems absurd.

I would offer to help her and give her support in whatever she is having problems with. If this was just a progress report, there is time to up the grades with your help.

Shaming her and giving her consequences for getting good grades may not help the situation....in fact, it may make it worse.

 

[Beth76]

Have you talked with your child? Do you know why she's getting Bs in those classes? Maybe the classes are a little more challenging than others and she really is doing her best. I used to get all As in math--it was really easy for me. I had Geometry Sophmore year and I probably got a 98%. Now, the next year, I took Trig and almost failed it and believe me, it was not from lack of trying. Talk to her and find out what's going on.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Is her social life picking up? I remember how upset my sister was when her son started bringing C's home. He was definitely capable of better, BUT...and the teacher suggested it...he's finding he can get by in classes with a "C" and was choosing to be more sociable. The girls started looking better I suppose!

 

[TandJ61574]

Well Tess, since you asked for my opinion I will tell you what happened in my case.

After raising 4 kids with pretty good grades the one child with the best grades (always got A's) started slipping. We arranged after school help and then tutors and then no phone, no going out until homework was done etc. It seemed the more pressure we put on her the worse it got.

Finally, it got to the point where she was failing! We didn't know what else to do. So, we had a little chat and we decided we were basically going to do nothing.

We told her we loved her regardless of her grades and if she wanted these grades then that would be punishment enough for her.

She only had one shot at H.S. and if she ruined her chances of getting into a good school or her dreams dying then that would be her fault and hers only. She couldn't blame anyone and she would be the one to regret it.

Well, when we backed off it seemed her rebellion turned around and her grades went up. She became more responsible and it felt good that we didn't have to babysit her anymore.

 

[HisEllyNelly]

Please dont take this the wrong way...but what is wrong with B's???
It amazes me the pressure we put on kids nowadays. Could it be that the work is harder? Could it be that she is feeling more pressure? Talk to her, but I wouldnt punish a child for B's...that in my opinion is absolutely terrible.

 

[Doctor P]

This can be a touchy subject, but I will tell you my opinion: I think you should always expect a child to make their best effort, but always realize that the results of a best effort can differ widely sometimes and that some things interfere with a child's ability to put forth effort at any given point in time. When effort does not convert to results, then one must evaluate whether the child needs help in focusing their best effort, whether there might be something else going on, or whether this is just something that is a little harder for them to understand and achieve at.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My dd is not a straight A student but here is how I handle the "grades" issue.

Everything is talked about prior to the quarter starting. We agree on the grades, performance, and consquences AHEAD of time. That way if truely things are being blown off she knows what is ahead of her.

I understand where you are coming from, I have a neighbor that expects straight A's from her dd as well. It is very high pressure to have those expectations if they are into extra-curriculars, job, etc...

 

[Nette]

Ok, as a high school student I was always a straight A kid... but begining of my junior year my grades started slipping. I went from the top 5% of my class (of > 500 students) to the bottom half.

The counselors and asst principals insisted to my mother that I must be doing drugs or that I wasn't trying.

During Feburary of that class year, I was diagnosed with epilepsy. I was having absence seizures all the time. No wonder I wasn't passing. I wasn't actually "in" the classroom most of the time.

My point is, You probably shouldn't punish your DD right away. Talk to her, find out how you can help her to make those grades the best they can be (and that doesn't mean they have to be A's).

It sounds like your daughter is likely a fairly responsible person to have maintained a 4.0 for so long. She is probably having some sort of trouble that is affecting her grades.

 

[flaps]

I don't know you or your child, so take what I type with a grain of salt.

It is possible for a "straight A" student to go to B+'s....and B's....and C's...and even *gasp* F's.

Grades and such aren't all there is to life. If they are, life isn't likely to last long.

Just a thought, FWIW, and JMHO.

 

[RitaZ.]

Interesting question... I was just thinking about this the other day. One of my friends called to ask me to tutor her son (7th grader) for Spanish class. Her son is in all gifted classes, gets all A's and always ranks in the top percentile in the FCAT, so perfect grades are expected from him.

This year he started taking Spanish and is struggling a bit, according to my friend. When she talked to her son about this, he thinks that he is doing well. Anyway, he is getting a B in this class. I told my friend that Spanish was all new to him, that this is the 3rd language that he is being exposed to (already speaks 2 other languages) and that a B isn't a "bad" grade. She and her husband are strong believers in "practice makes perfect", that's their philosophy when it comes to school and grades. They also have their son enrolled in Kumon math, which the boy hates, all in the name of "practice makes perfect". I'm a little more lax when it comes to grades, so I don't really feel that there is cause for alarm, but I'm not the boy's parent.

I don't see a reason to punish a child for earning a B, maybe that is the best she can do, maybe this is the first time that she is having difficulty with a subject. Just because a child is "fully capable" doesn't mean that they have to earn perfect grades all the time, and if they don't, that "something" must be wrong. Frankly, setting such high expectations for our children concerns me a great deal. When we strive for perfection, we only set ourselves for serious disappointment, more than is healthy and necessary.

JMHO

 

[Tess]

Pin Wizard. . .I think your thinking is where my head is presently. She's a cheerleader and social animal. She also takes ballet, gymnastics, and piano--then, of course, there are dances, phone time, etc. Her social side is seemingly taking over.

Mystery Machine--my kids have never failed to know the expectations for their performance. They have known since grades began that we expected their best effort. IF that meant something less than an A and we actually saw the effort to achieve, we'd live with it. Our daughter has NEVER been satisfied with a B. . .ever! She was the one that put the pressure on herself as well. . .this year, however, she's definitely been an A-1 slacker all the while tellling us how her classes were cake. Well, that doesn't appear to be the case with her grades.


TandJ. . .

She only had one shot at H.S. and if she ruined her chances of getting into a good school or her dreams dying then that would be her fault and hers only. She couldn't blame anyone and she would be the one to regret it.

Part of me feels this way as well. The other side has talked to her ad nauseum to determine if she's in over her head with her courses or if she's simply thinking she'll just skate through as is usual for her. She's never had to work for a grade--they just came easily. This year she needs to put forth some effort and she's not done that to date. Amazingly, since I let her know that these grades weren't acceptable and felt she may be giving up cheerleading next quarter, two of the three grades have jumped to A-. The third, was so low (80%) I'm not sure she had any hope of elevating it before the end of this quarter. Progress reports came out just 3 weeks before the end of the quarter! Oddly enough, her grades in this class since I jumped on the bandwagon have been very good 90% and up! She is fully capable of doing the work.

Beth. . .

Have you talked with your child?

Of course, constantly. When I'd ask how such and such subject was going, if she was enjoying the class, etc., etc., any problems???? I'd get the reply that everything was super and she was doing great! That's what is driving me insane. . .both of our kids know that if you address a problem immediately it doesn't grow or fester. . .instead, she chose to ignore the fact her grades weren't all that they should be in favor of playing around.

I guess what really bugs me most is that she let her grades slide in favor of maintaining her busy social life. (She sure hasn't let that aspect of her life sit on the back burner.) Further, that she just let them keep sliding without doing anything about it UNTIL the progress report came out and she had to confront it. I think it's time she realize the consequences of playing when you should be working AND/OR utilizing some better time management skills. As I told her, if she has to skip her cheerleading this winter, she's chosen that consequence by her failure to work the first quarter. Obviously, her busy schedule is interfering with her ability to get her work done properly. Trust me on this one, she has not put extra effort into anything this quarter except cheerleading.

I do agree though--they have to want it for themselves, not to please others. It has always been such a great source of pride for her to be the top student in her class--now, suddenly, that no longer matters? Boys seem to be more interesting than history, geometry, and physical science.

 

[WDSearcher]

I don't think it's fair to institute punishment until you find out the "why" behind the grades.

I was a straight-A kid through most of school, but occasionally I would find a subject that really, really stumped me. No matter how hard I worked, I just couldn't "get it." And I'd end up with a "B" or a "C", but knowing that I'd truly done my best. This could be the case with your daughter. The first thing you need to do is ASK HER!

Does she not like the teachers in her "B" subjects? Are they expecting her to do more learning than they are teaching? Do those classes have disruptive students that make it hard for her to concentrate? Did she take a class or two that she thought would be a "challenge" but are now proving to be too much?

Punishing her without finding out from her what's going on it wrong, IMO. If she's working hard and doing her best, then punishment for a "B" is also sending the wrong message.

 

[Crankyshank]

If her grades are sliding because she is having problems juggling her social/extracurricular activities as well as her school work, then she needs a lesson in time management.

I wouldn't necessarily cut out her activities because they are important when applying to colleges, but maybe she should have her social life cut back until she brings up her grades.

 

[MinnieM21]

Nevermind I see you already talked to her, my advice was going to be to talk to her.

I guess I would cut out some of her time with her friends if her grades continue to slip.

 

[DoeWDW]

I'm surprised no one here has mentioned talking to her teachers. I've found that a conversation, either over the phone or via email, can go a long way to gathering insight about my kids' performance in their classes. Are they working up to their level or are they slacking? Are their grades good on tests but poor on in-class assignments, etc.

Please email her teachers and ask their opinions.

 

[TimeforMe]

Originally posted by Tess
It has always been such a great source of pride for her to be the top student in her class--now, suddenly, that no longer matters? Boys seem to be more interesting than history, geometry, and physical science.

I don't think that it "no longer matters" to her, but probably that it just doesn't matter AS MUCH to her as it did in the past. High school is a very social time in our lives--think back to your high school days. You, too, probably remember boys, football games, cheerleading, etc. a lot more than history, geometry and physical science right? But I can totally relate to your dilemma -- I am in the same boat with my DD. She doesn't work up to her ability (which I've been told time and time again). She does know, however, what is acceptable and what is not and somehow manages to just barely tow the line, so to speak. I don't know--I try not to take the whole thing more seriously than necessary. But I know we worry about them getting into good colleges, etc.

 

[Tess]

A suggestion I would normally find prudent. In two of the subjects it would be pointless to discuss the situation with the teachers. We've been that route with these two teachers when our son had them (he's also top in his class). They really have an attitude and could care less that our child, or anyone else's for that matter, is having a problem.

Both of these "teachers" choose favorites and do their best to see to it those chosen ones are elevated. One of them actually kept our son out of NHS last year as a sophmore even though he is one of 4 #1 students in his class and the others were inducted along with two who were favorites BUT not with equal academics to our son, but that's another story. This same teacher told our daughter just yesterday: "I just helped you with a problem similar to that yesterday, go sit down and figure it out." The third teacher is actually great and he's worked with her and her grade has come up to an A. She did, in fact, speak with the other two teachers as well in an effort to see what more she could do to improve her grade: "Work harder" was the answer.

If it were any of the other teachers there, I'd agree--a very smart place to start.

Timeforme:

It takes some thought, but I do remember high school some 30 years ago. I was fortunate, colleges weren't as competitive as they are today--we were more focused on the basics of subjects vs getting into AP classes in high school. For that reason I didn't have to work for grades either--it came easily. I still recall the roof being raised, however, if I failed to perform.

How do you convince a high schooler that their grades are important now and the social experience has it's place thereafter. I worry about the attitude and lack of self-discipline especially when they will be heading off to college where they will be a number and no one will bother to see if they are doing well. It will be totally on their shoulders to resolve issues. I've tried to instill (or hammer into them) that their academics should be first and the other stuff thereafter.

As someone said earlier, it really is their greatest consequence to face the reality of poor performance.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

well personally I don't think it is fair to apply consequences such as taking away activities for failing to meet a standard which hasn't been clearly set previously.

My High Schooler and I sat down at the beginning of the year and worked out what his GPA should reasonably be given his classes. If his GPA falls below that level, he is not allowed to watch tv, play games on his computer, talk on the phone, or walk along Main Street with his friends after school. He would come home and sit at my dining room table to study. As long as his GPA remains above that level, he directs his own life within reason. If he wants to achieve more -- that is great but the drive has to come from him.

If I were in your position I would clearly remind your daughter what her college and career goals are and what her grades reasonably need to be to meet them. Then I would also clearly define with her what your minimum standards are for the quarterly report card and for the semester and what the consequences will be if she doesn't meet that.

She can then decide for herself how much social activity her life can afford.

 

[Beth76]

Originally posted by Tess
How do you convince a high schooler that their grades are important now and the social experience has it's place thereafter. I worry about the attitude and lack of self-discipline especially when they will be heading off to college where they will be a number and no one will bother to see if they are doing well. It will be totally on their shoulders to resolve issues. I've tried to instill (or hammer into them) that their academics should be first and the other stuff thereafter.

But, in HS social and/or athletic activities are key to providing a well-rounded education. I would much rather have a child with all Bs who is involved in extra-cirricular activities than one who had a 4.0 and had no social life. I really think it helps them prepare better for college if they know how (and are encouraged) to balance the two.

If you were talking about Cs and Ds, this would be a different discussion. But, for Bs, cut her a little slack. Let her enjoy high school and all it has to offer. Best of luck to you and your daughter!