Condaleeza Rice needs to SHUT UP!

Cindyluwho

<font color=red>I luv my chickens!<br><font color=
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What is it with Rice? She's been in Eastern Europe this past week trying to get the pot stirring in Belarus now. Why is it our business if their President is the "last dictator in Europe" as she puts it. Are the people that unhappy? I was just there last December and the vast majority of the people I spoke with are happy with Lukashenka. In fact, when I asked them if they'd like to trade for Bush I got a 100% answer of "no way". There was a small demonstration in front of the KGB in Minsk while I was there, they were supporting the "orange" democracy folks in the Ukraine. There was maybe 100-200 people demonstrating - not the 1000's like in the Ukraine. So, if the majority of the people like the way the country is run, heck, it's their country! Talking with the people in Belarus I found that they're pretty happy overall with their situation. The country is very safe, no violent crime to speak of (except government officials taking care of opposition). Very little drug use, very clean, very efficient. I wouldn't want to live there, I prefer the US, but it's their country so why is it our business????
 
Cindyluwho said:
What is it with Rice? She's been in Eastern Europe this past week trying to get the pot stirring in Belarus now. Why is it our business if their President is the "last dictator in Europe" as she puts it. Are the people that unhappy? I was just there last December and the vast majority of the people I spoke with are happy with Lukashenka. In fact, when I asked them if they'd like to trade for Bush I got a 100% answer of "no way". There was a small demonstration in front of the KGB in Minsk while I was there, they were supporting the "orange" democracy folks in the Ukraine. There was maybe 100-200 people demonstrating - not the 1000's like in the Ukraine. So, if the majority of the people like the way the country is run, heck, it's their country! Talking with the people in Belarus I found that they're pretty happy overall with their situation. The country is very safe, no violent crime to speak of (except government officials taking care of opposition). Very little drug use, very clean, very efficient. I wouldn't want to live there, I prefer the US, but it's their country so why is it our business????

Why did you care if they would want to trade their leader for Bush? Like the said during WWII.. Mussolini made sure the trains ran on time in Italy. I'm sure the Italians were happy about that, too!
 
well one could say the same about how people who dont live here who find it neccesary to tell us what to do and who to vote for.....
 
Why pick on the little country? How about speaking out against the Chinese government-- or how about helping the Sudanese? We should definitely focus on cleaning up the mess we have made in Iraq before we start more trouble.

Cindyluwho, it's nice to get honest, first hand accounts of what really goes on in a remote country like Belarus. Without them, we would probably believe the political spin.
 

I was very curious about their feelings for our country and our politics. I was very impressed that they were able to seperate Bush from Americans in general. They have very anti-Bush feelings, he's been after Lukashenka since the beginning of his term, but they are very sympathetic towards Americans. They actually feel sorry for us!! And here we are, feeling sorry for them because they live under a "Stalinist" leader/dictator. Traveling to Europe I was actually afraid of encountering anti-American sentiments but found just the opposite. Frankfurt, Vienna, Amsterdam and the whole country of Belarus - they were all very friendly. But they were very vocal about their feelings for our president and our election.
 
Was Ms. Rice responding to a question? What was the question? Or was she making a speech? I'd like to know under what circumstances she made the offending statements.
 
I have just accepted the fact that Rice is a idiot and China is too important ($). I turely thought I was the only one with these feelings.
 
Cindyluwho said:
What is it with Rice? She's been in Eastern Europe this past week trying to get the pot stirring in Belarus now. Why is it our business if their President is the "last dictator in Europe" as she puts it. Are the people that unhappy? I was just there last December and the vast majority of the people I spoke with are happy with Lukashenka. In fact, when I asked them if they'd like to trade for Bush I got a 100% answer of "no way". There was a small demonstration in front of the KGB in Minsk while I was there, they were supporting the "orange" democracy folks in the Ukraine. There was maybe 100-200 people demonstrating - not the 1000's like in the Ukraine. So, if the majority of the people like the way the country is run, heck, it's their country! Talking with the people in Belarus I found that they're pretty happy overall with their situation. The country is very safe, no violent crime to speak of (except government officials taking care of opposition). Very little drug use, very clean, very efficient. I wouldn't want to live there, I prefer the US, but it's their country so why is it our business????
Old people in Germany often say that during Hitler's reign there was virtually no violence and no theft, you could for example leave your bicycle leaned against a lamppost over night without locking it. But try to see that from the view of a Jew, who lived in that time or a member of the opposition :rolleyes:
Even though I can't stand Rice, she's IMHO right in that issue, especially as many of those former Soviet Republics still have access to nuclear weapons and those I woud rather not have a the disposal of a dictator.
 
I can see why they don't bother China. After all, China isn't a weak little country that bothers no one like Belarus.
 
Cindyluwho said:
I was very curious about their feelings for our country and our politics. I was very impressed that they were able to seperate Bush from Americans in general. They have very anti-Bush feelings, he's been after Lukashenka since the beginning of his term, but they are very sympathetic towards Americans. They actually feel sorry for us!! And here we are, feeling sorry for them because they live under a "Stalinist" leader/dictator. Traveling to Europe I was actually afraid of encountering anti-American sentiments but found just the opposite. Frankfurt, Vienna, Amsterdam and the whole country of Belarus - they were all very friendly. But they were very vocal about their feelings for our president and our election.
Thanks for that post!!!
I nuimerously posted that there is very little Anit-Americanism in Europe, but simply a deep antipathy towards Bush - Period. But unfortunately many American conservatives still have that 'If you're not with us, you're against us'-attitude :rolleyes:
 
inaminute said:
Was Ms. Rice responding to a question? What was the question? Or was she making a speech? I'd like to know under what circumstances she made the offending statements.

She was in Lithuania meeting with 7 Belarussians who are opposed to President Lukashenka.

From the Washington Post:
By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 22, 2005; Page A12

VILNIUS, Lithuania, April 21 -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice gave a boost Thursday to stalled efforts to oust the government of Belarus, holding a high-profile meeting with key opposition figures from the former Soviet republic. Russian and Belarusan officials criticized her actions and statements as interference.

Rice, who has scorned the Belarus government as "the last dictatorship in Europe," said she arranged the session in the Lithuanian capital to find out how the United States and other countries could assist the opposition in winning greater political freedom. The Belarusan government "should know that their behavior is being watched. . . . This is not a dark corner in which things can go unobserved, uncommented on," she told reporters.

Rice was in Vilnius to attend a meeting of foreign ministers from NATO countries. The group agreed to offer to put Ukraine, with its new, Western-oriented government, on a fast track to membership in the alliance.

Borys Tarasyuk, Ukraine's foreign minister, told reporters his country could meet NATO's conditions for political and military reforms within three years; NATO officials declined to set a timetable.

The Belarusan opposition leaders said Rice told them the United States wanted to help them in four key areas: promoting independent news media, supporting political initiatives toward democracy, encouraging a national movement for free government and unifying the opposition around a candidate to challenge President Alexander Lukashenko in 2006.

The seven Belarusans included the president of a shuttered university, an organizer of young people, a newspaper editor and the wife of a journalist who disappeared under mysterious circumstances.

U.S. officials say they don't believe Belarus is ripe for the kind of street protests that, in the last year and a half, have swept out governments in three other former Soviet republics -- Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan. Rice's meeting appeared to be aimed at preparing opposition officials for the elections, which Rice said would be an "excellent opportunity" to challenge the government.

The opposition figures said they didn't expect the vote to be fair and were planning to press their case with large street protests in the fall. They said they were trying to make the plight of people who had disappeared into an organizing issue.

In the meeting, Rice noted that outrage over similar disappearances in Argentina helped end military rule there and that "society needs an issue around which to unite," according to Aleksander Dobrovolsky, deputy chairman of the United Civil Party, an opposition party.

Before arriving here Wednesday, Rice spent two days in Moscow assuring Russian officials that U.S. support of democratic revolutions on its border was not intended to minimize its influence.

Yet the NATO event here showed how drastically the world has changed since the end of the Cold War: Lithuania, a NATO member, was once part of the Soviet Union.

Though street revolutions have brought changes in the region, the opposition officials from Belarus told reporters they faced a tougher struggle because Lukashenko, who has ruled since 1994, has brutally repressed dissent.

"The government in Belarus is prepared to use force at any moment," said Lyudmila Petina, chair of the Christian Women's Democratic Movement, which advocates gender equality.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, who met here with NATO foreign ministers to sign an agreement on joint military training, said "we would not of course advocate what some people call regime change anywhere," he said. "I think the democratic process and the process of reform cannot be imposed from outside."

Sergei Martynov, the foreign minister of Belarus, told the Interfax news agency on Wednesday that "the Belarusan people choose a government, and it is for Belarusan people and not Condoleezza Rice to decide about the future of the country."

In his annual address to parliament on Tuesday, Lukashenko said such revolutions were "plain banditry" and would not take place in his country.
 
Cindyluwho said:
Talking with the people in Belarus I found that they're pretty happy overall with their situation. The country is very safe, no violent crime to speak of (except government officials taking care of opposition.)

Then there should be no problem holding fair elections in 2006. That's all anyone wants - if the people like Lukashenka, let them vote for him.
 
Teejay32 said:
Then there should be no problem holding fair elections in 2006. That's all anyone wants - if the people like Lukashenka, let them vote for him.

According to our government, the last elections in Belarus weren't fair. Although, while I was over there I was told by some folks in Minsk that the old timers/country folk really like Lukashenka and that they outnumber the younger, more democratic thinking folks. I guess I just don't understand why we keep publicly going after the Belarus government when they're such a small little country and don't seem to pose much of a threat, if at all.
 
Cindyluwho said:
I guess I just don't understand why we keep publicly going after the Belarus government when they're such a small little country and don't seem to pose much of a threat, if at all.
Maybe because democracy should be available to any country regardless of its size or threat potential.
 
Tigger.. Shouldn't that be determined by those who live there? Our Government gets annoyed when other mention some of the things 'wrong' here. Some Americans think Europe should keep its nose out of our business. So who 'died' and left us in charge. Like the Ukraine, if the people of Belarus don't like it they will change it.
 
drakester said:
I have just accepted the fact that Rice is a idiot and China is too important ($). I turely thought I was the only one with these feelings.


Yeah... she is "a idiot" :rolleyes: . Get real, drakester. Agree or diagree with the woman, but she is intelligent. She has the credentials and in some situations has proven to be quite clever and charming, diplomatically speaking. Ignorant name-calling does no good for anyone.
 
DisDuck said:
Tigger.. Shouldn't that be determined by those who live there? Our Government gets annoyed when other mention some of the things 'wrong' here. Some Americans think Europe should keep its nose out of our business. So who 'died' and left us in charge. Like the Ukraine, if the people of Belarus don't like it they will change it.

There's a huge difference between poking your nose in policy and promoting democratic election of state leaders. Rice is not telling the leadership of Belarus what policy positions they should take (not to my knowledge anyway). She's saying they ought to be accountable to the people of Belarus. That's an issue that we should not be silent on IMO, regardless of how big/small/important/unimportant the country.
 
It wasn't just "any" country. It wasn't China. It wasn't North Korea. It wasn't Saudi Arabia. We are throwing our weight around because we think we can get away with it. Leave 'em alone. If the people of Belarus don't like it, they can take to the streets. Obviously, they are just a pawn in the bigger U.S./Soviet relations picture, but that doesn't make Rice's behavior any more acceptable.
 
DisDuck said:
Tigger.. Shouldn't that be determined by those who live there? Our Government gets annoyed when other mention some of the things 'wrong' here. Some Americans think Europe should keep its nose out of our business. So who 'died' and left us in charge. Like the Ukraine, if the people of Belarus don't like it they will change it.
I completely agree, but that fact doesn't mean that the U.S. gov't. cannot and should not express its opinion on the matter. jrydberg said it a lot better than I can.
 


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