Composition

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm beginning to learn about the basics of composition.

I did a Dis search for the term and found some threads on english composition, composition of illness support groups, composite decking materials, dental filling composition, body composition analysis and music composition, among others, but not a whole lot on the subject of photo composition.

Looking at the photos of some of the Dis PB "masters", I can see there's a lot to be learned.

Here is a link I liked if anyone needs/wants a basic review: http://asp.photo.free.fr/Composition/photoProgramCompMainClass.shtml

From my own work I can see that I've learned some of the basics without the benefit of formal study, though I'm sure I've read and picked up some tips along the way. For example, uncluttered backgrounds: I'll wait until everything clears if I think it will mean a good shot. I've also learned the art of getting close to my subject matter, or shooting from unusual vantage points, etc. What I never knew was the rule of thirds or some of the more advanced rules of composition.

Would like to discuss, hear your thoughts and see examples of your style. The type of camera you use is irrelevant, except if it's technically significant, like using a histogram and why (keep it simple ) or otherwise using the camera's technology to improve composition.

Thanks in advance to all who contribute!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'll start. If I were taking this same photo today, I'd compose it differently. Stepping to the left a little and moving the signpost more to the right still would have given me a nice view of the Dig Site pool, the Cabanas building, and probably gotten rid of the boat "clutter".

 

[AndrewWG]

Pea-n-Me, cool thread!

I will have to look through my photos some more to post an example but a common mistake that I make is not recognizing the fact that my subject has alot of "noise" in the background. I think I really nailed a shot and bring it home and notice a very distracting background. This may be people, telephone poles (I always get these) or just out of place trees, etc. One thing that I might gain from a DSLR (someday) is that I could maybe use depth of field to my advantage by narrowing it down a bit causing these backgrounds to blur and not take away from the image. Just a thought anyways. The Canon S2 I have has very limited range of depth of field other than darned near infinity!

I guess you didn't exactly ask for critique and I am by far, no expert on photography, however I would think that in your photo, a little bit of a higher vantage point might have helped too. You would be able to see the water in the background a bit more. Of course, that might be distracting too. I do agree with your thoughts as well. I wish I knew more.

Andy

 

[ukcatfan]

I try to keep the rules in mind, but like to think of them more as guidelines. Sometimes breaking the rules can still end up with nice results. Also, I can say to practice as much as possible so when you are faced with a sudden reaction shot, it is practically second nature. (BTW, I am not there yet )

The thing I cannot stand is when things get cut out of the picture and it is not intentional. My favorite example is when you see a really nice shot of the castle, but the top 5-10 feet of it are chopped off.

Kevin

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Andrew, your post reminded me of the "Smiling Strangers" thread.

I agree. Sometimes clutter's unavoidable, but sometimes it's simply a matter of repositioning yourself or waiting just a few seconds for people to clear out. I think just keeping it in minds goes a long way toward getting better shots.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Using the rules as guidelines is a good way to look at it, Kevin. I can see that there are beautiful shots out there that don't always fit any type of mold. I've also read that some photographers outright reject any "rules". I guess that's where confidence comes into play. Something I'm still working on, too.

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

The first "rule" of good composition, as far as I've learned, is the "Rule of Thirds."

Imagine your camera's view split by two vertical and two horizontal lines like a tic-tac-toe board. When composing shots, try to put the subject either in the center block or at one of the intersections of the lines.

Here's a nice resource about it: The Rule of Thirds

Many modern cameras superimpose the grid right onto the viewfinder or LCD!

 

[photo_chick]

A lot of photography's "rules" of composition are also basic design elements in general.

Also I agree with Kevin, knowing when to break them is just as important as keping them in mind. They are not really rules, but elements that help make good design. You can look at any number of well known photographers works and find instances where they "broke" the rules and ended up making images that are some of the most highly regarded in photography.

The one I try to keep in mind is threes. Everything is threes. the "rule of thirds", triangles for posing, threes for balance. Look around you and you will start to see threes everywhere.

It has been drilled into me so much in school that I joke with my huband that my family is unbalanced because we stopped at two kids!

 

[tinksdad]

The link that you posted has the basics pretty well covered. Like ukcatfan stated, using them as guidelines is probably more effective than hard and fast Rules!!

Some others that are helpful;

Horizons - Use the rule of thirds at the horizon. If you're wanting more emphasis on the sky, then the photo should be split with the sky occupying the top 2/3 of the frame. The opposite is true when the focus is the foreground.

Leading Lines - using foreground objects to "lead" your eye to the main subject of your photo. Like tracks in the snow leading to the snow and fog covered mountain top in the background.

Using diagonal lines that disappear into a corner of the photo is another strong visual that makes a good photo.

Putting the main subject of your photo in line or above your line of focus is a good technique as well. Looking down on something from a distance makes it flat and unappealing.

If you can put some distance between where your subject is looking or facing and the end of the frame, you'll give the subject room (visually) to move and looks better than the same space behind the subject.

 

[jann1033]

one i think is commonly overlooked espc in snapshot/vacation type photos is probably to fill your frame, ie not the tiny little subject with lots of clutter filled space around it. so you might have to think ahead as far as posing goes ie move closer to the castle than the entrance end of main st if you want the necessary "castle with the family" photo. course sometimes this is limited by your lens as well which is why i hate it when i think i have something composed how i like it then it's not big enough so i have to start cropping and to get a normal photo print size end up having to move something not where i wanted it( if that makes sense) guess i need more zoom( hehe i always need more zoom, even with a 600mm i'd probably wish i had a 700mm )
this is what i mean...i took this knowing i'd have to crop it due to only having my 18-55 lens( pre 70-200, post shipping 28-135 off to get worked on) but i mean mainly photos Meant to look like this :0 ie subject smack in center of photo with 3 acres of clutter around it

i ended up not ever doing anything with this anyway for 2 main reasons... by the time i cropped enough out to make the wolf the obvious subject i realized the tree trunk was hiding his feet ( duh)which annoyed me and there were still to many bushes etc ...i had liked the little waterfall but just to much extraneous junk and not another place to take the shot from a different angle since this exhibit is a little room with a glass window. oh well so much for that idea. maybe summer would be better since the bushes might blend together better and hide the fence and i could maybe stand outside someplace.

 

[photo_chick]

With kids, well and I guess it could apply to people in general... Shooting from above is supposed to emphasize innocence, shooting from a lower angle up is supposed to emphasize masculinity. I am not sure this really works. I have tried it and have been IMO unsuccessful.


she does not look very innocent to me

And how can he look masculine with that face

Anyone been able to make this really work?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Great thoughts, everyone. Keep 'em coming. What about some examples of your shots?

Shooting from above is supposed to emphasize innocence, shooting from a lower angle up is supposed to emphasize masculinity. I am not sure this really works.

I see what you mean about your kids. BTW, we're unbalanced, too.

I've often thought my dog looked "small" (or at least "cute") in this picture. If I shot it from down low she'd probably look ferocious.

 

[jann1033]

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/composition-2.shtml
bobq originally linked to this guy's essays which i think are great..this is one on composition

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I like the shot. I'd still be interested in seeing what it looks like cropped.

 

[photo_chick]

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/composition-2.shtml
bobq originally linked to this guy's essays which i think are great..this is one on composition

THat is a good link. He pointed ot that Japanese and Chinese tend to view "the golden rule" a little differently, since their writing is different. Also something that an instructor pointed out to me is that left handed people tend to view this a little differnetly as well. Just like many left handed people tend to flip through magazines backwards. It was pointed out to me when the instructor noticed that I tend to weight things to the left. I now try not to do that so much since the world is mostly right handed.

 

[AndrewWG]

Andrew, your post reminded me of the "Smiling Strangers" thread.

Thats what it is like sometimes!

I agree. Sometimes clutter's unavoidable, but sometimes it's simply a matter of repositioning yourself or waiting just a few seconds for people to clear out. I think just keeping it in minds goes a long way toward getting better shots.

Obviously at WDW, I cannot avoid people in photos unfortunately. If I could get a photo with no people, I would probably be in the park alone and would be riding all the rides instead of taking pics!

I do try to take the time to really figure out what will be in the shot besides my subject nowadays. I used to be horrible at it, but I am getting better, I think.

Leading Lines - using foreground objects to "lead" your eye to the main subject of your photo. Like tracks in the snow leading to the snow and fog covered mountain top in the background.

Tinksdad, I am not sure about lines. I have a hard time with this one. See pic below. Does this do anything for anyone? I don't particularly like it but don't know what I could have done to make it better at all. It just looks like color with a line of water through it. I guess it is missing a real "subject"? Perhaps this is a good example of "junk"? Maybe I should have tried a different angle, but I wanted to get the water in it too.

Personally, I like the second shot more, but again I'm not sure that I used the lines appropriately.

My main objective was to try to work with lines as you said earlier, but I'm not too sure I was successful. I was also trying to get a decent shot of cranberry bogs for the Pictures from your part of the world thread.

I'll have to read up on the use of lines when I have time later tonight.

Any thoughts anyone?

Andy

 

[jann1033]

actually i like the top one, it's symmetrical but i think that kind of works, zen like and maybe you could bump up the saturation and maybe crop some of the white sky reflection and some of the bottom then it would be red, blue, red texture, smooth, texture
i think one good use of lines is the one photosam( might be a bear somewhere in the user name can't remember now) posted on the "which photo do you like" thread...i really liked the top one how the track of the monorail lead your eye and the reflection of the water as well

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm no expert but I'm thinking the composition in your photos is pretty good, Andrew. #2 has a horizon up in the top 1/3, not in the center, and it's got kind of a semi "S" thing going on (see Jann's article) as well.

 

[photo_chick]

I'm no expert but I'm thinking the composition in your photos is pretty good, Andrew. #2 has a horizon up in the top 1/3, not in the center, and it's got kind of a semi "S" thing going on (see Jann's article) as well.

I think they are pretty good as well. I like the second one best.

 

[AndrewWG]

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm working on this photography thing. I'll get there someday!

I guess I like the bottom one the best because it leads my eye to something, which in this case is the background of trees. Not very exciting, but it is something. I wish the sky wasn't all blown out though. Maybe I'll try again today and meter the sky first and use those settings for the shot.

Andy