Complexities of banking and borrowing

[sjcampbl]

I think I understand the basics of banking and borrowing, but it seems that it can get confusing if one would bank to the future, then borrow for an unplanned trip, then cancel that unplanned trip.

Would anyone mind trying to give a little outline of the repercussions given these types of events?

 

[dianeschlicht]

If you borrow points and have to cancel that reservation after your banking deadline for the current UY, you would lose the points unless it was canceled within the last 30 days before the reservation was to begin. Then they would be placed in holding, and would have to be used within the last 60 days of your UY.

 

[sjcampbl]

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
If you borrow points and have to cancel that reservation after your banking deadline for the current UY, you would lose the points unless it was canceled within the last 30 days before the reservation was to begin. Then they would be placed in holding, and would have to be used within the last 60 days of your UY.

Ok, a couple more questions:

Let's say you have a 100 point contract. You don't plan on using these points this year so you bank them to next. Then you decide to take a quick vacation and so borrow 50 points back.

Question 1- have you borrowed back your current year points or your next year points, or is this irrelevant?

Then you have to cancel this trip too, and you're in the 7th or 8th month of your use year.

Question 2- Since 50 is half of 100 I assume you could still re-bank these back to next year?

Question 3- Do you actually track which year specific points came from or is it just a numbers game?

Instead of assuming you cancel at the 7th or 8th month, let's assume you're in the 11th month and cancel within 30 days.

Question 4- I haven't heard of that 60 day holding thing yet, could you start from scratch on that one?

Thanks.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by sjcampbl
Ok, a couple more questions:

Let's say you have a 100 point contract. You don't plan on using these points this year so you bank them to next. Then you decide to take a quick vacation and so borrow 50 points back.

Question 1- have you borrowed back your current year points or your next year points, or is this irrelevant?

Then you have to cancel this trip too, and you're in the 7th or 8th month of your use year.

You would be using the NEXT year's points. And, once points are borrowed, they cannot be returned to their original UY or banked. When the 12th month of the current UY ends, the points are forfeit if not used.

Question 2- Since 50 is half of 100 I assume you could still re-bank these back to next year?

No. As stated, borrowed points cannot be banked or returned to their original UY.

Question 3- Do you actually track which year specific points came from or is it just a numbers game?

They are tracked very closely.

Instead of assuming you cancel at the 7th or 8th month, let's assume you're in the 11th month and cancel within 30 days.

At any point under 31 days, the points go into Holding if the reservation is cancelled. If you cancel 31 days out, in the 11th month, they still have to be used by the end of the UY or are lost.

Question 4- I haven't heard of that 60 day holding thing yet, could you start from scratch on that one?

Thanks.

If you cancel a reservation on less than 31 days notice, the points go into a Holding Account. Points in Holding can only be used toward a stay booked on 60 days notice or less (eg. want to stay 5/1, you can't book before 3/1), and Holding points expire at the end of their Use Year if not used. They cannot be banked.

 

[CVW]

As happy as I am with DVC, their banking and borrowing policies are among the strictest in the industry. I much prefer the point system at my other timeshare (Bluegreen Vacation Club) which allows un-banking and un-borrowing.

The advantage to DVC's system is that it makes availability much more predictable to MS. It also creates more dying points (from new inexperienced members) which translates into increased availability for other members booking at the last minute. (Not to mention more cash reservations for Disney.)

Unless you can quickly re-book to an off-peak time, (very difficult with school-age kids) points in holding are in grave peril.

They should change the name of the "Holding Account" to the "Sayonara Account". It's a more accurate description.

(Or maybe the "Wishful Thinking Account". Sounds a bit more Disney-esque.)

 

[Frozenfingers]

First, I am not an expert on this and should I answer incorrectly, someone please jump in and correct me.

For me.. I think of borrowing/banking as one way transactions. Helps me keep things straight in my head. Soooo, if you bank all of this years points and then decide you might want to take a short trip, you need to borrow NEXT years points. One cannot "take back" this years points and say "oops".

Borrowed points are not bankable. They can be transferred to another DVC member or "rented" though. So, if you borrow points and then cancel your ressie, those points are at risk and are in a use or lose situation.

If you are unfortunate enough to cancel within 30 days of arrival.. good luck using them, points in holding can only be used within 60 days of your new UY. As I understand it, points in holding CAN be transfered to another member though but they remain distressed and the expiration date does not change (so sell them cheap).

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CVW
As happy as I am with DVC, their banking and borrowing policies are among the strictest in the industry. I much prefer the point system at my other timeshare (Bluegreen Vacation Club) which allows un-banking and un-borrowing.

The advantage to DVC's system is that it makes availability much more predictable to MS. It also creates more dying points (from new inexperienced members) which translates into increased availability for other members booking at the last minute. (Not to mention more cash reservations for Disney.)

Unless you can quickly re-book to an off-peak time, (very difficult with school-age kids) points in holding are in grave peril.

They should change the name of the "Holding Account" to the "Sayonara Account". It's a more accurate description.

(Or maybe the "Wishful Thinking Account". Sounds a bit more Disney-esque.)

I'd say DVC is one of the more neutral. Hyatt is FAR more strict. Worldmark is much more liberal. Club Intrawest is more liberal but you can't get the top options even if you own there. Paradise Village is far more strict in some ways, allowing only 2 years worth of points to use in any year. FF is also more liberal in some ways and less in others. And while some may be better in one aspect, they are frequently less so in many others. Many require minimum stays or you to pay extra for multiple trips in one year. Some require you to wait for several months to reserve less than a full week. And in BG's case, you can't reserve some resorts for less than a full week at any time. Plus other than possibly Hyatt, none of the rest I can think of match DVC's quality and desireability across the board most like BG, FF and WM don't even come close. I'm reminded of a former MA who used to look at that list of companies best for women to work for that comes out every year. She'd see specialty benefits like free childcare (home office only) or an adoption stipend and think what she had did not measure up. Well, she had free health care for her AND her entire family, a SEPP at 12% per year above her salary, 4 weeks paid off per year, sick time, etc.

Good planning in choice of use year and reservations will minimize any issues of banking and borrowing almost all the time.

 

[CVW]

The operative phrase in my post, however, is "banking and borrowing", which is the subject of the OP. For me, Bluegreen's ability to un-bank and un-borrow trumps their one-week minimum for my home resort. (I can reduce my reservation from one week to something less at the five month window. For my home resort, Big Cedar, it's just a little regulation I abide by five months before my trip.)

It'd be interesting to speak to the statisticians who are privy to the actual results of banking and borrowing. My guess is that Disney's "one way transaction" policy (as Frozenfingers referred to it) makes the day to day reservation policy easier to offer.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CVW
The operative phrase in my post, however, is "banking and borrowing", which is the subject of the OP. For me, Bluegreen's ability to un-bank and un-borrow trumps their one-week minimum for my home resort. (I can reduce my reservation from one week to something less at the five month window. For my home resort, Big Cedar, it's just a little regulation I abide by five months before my trip.)

It'd be interesting to speak to the statisticians who are privy to the actual results of banking and borrowing. My guess is that Disney's "one way transaction" policy (as Frozenfingers referred to it) makes the day to day reservation policy easier to offer.

Regardless, I find DVC middle of the road in this regard. WM is likely the most flexible overall and Hyatt the least so. BG has a number of very seasonal resorts and only a handful of truly desirable resorts and somewhat lower rated, I'd guess they're hoping more units will get used if they allow more flexibility. Same could be said for WM and FF to a certain extent. Hyatt, Hilton and CI are the closest systems in terms of overall quality from top to bottom and I find them all less appealing from a points system standpoint. But as with any system, it depends on how it fits YOUR circumstances.

 

[sjcampbl]

Wow, I guess I didn't understand more than I thought. Thanks for the review. I'm glad I asked the question after I went under contract on a resale, if not I may have been scared off by the complexity. Nah, not really.

So another question... If you make a reservation but cancel it more than 30 days before its date, are there any repercussions or do the points simply go back in the kitty? How about if you make an 11 month reservation at your primary resort, then try to switch at 7 months to another resort?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by sjcampbl
Wow, I guess I didn't understand more than I thought. Thanks for the review. I'm glad I asked the question after I went under contract on a resale, if not I may have been scared off by the complexity. Nah, not really.

So another question... If you make a reservation but cancel it more than 30 days before its date, are there any repercussions or do the points simply go back in the kitty? How about if you make an 11 month reservation at your primary resort, then try to switch at 7 months to another resort?

The only problems are that if you borrowed points, they remain borrowed and have to the end of THAT use year to use them. The other issue is that banking points is subject to the limitations of the banking windows so you might or might not be able to bank points in you cancel and can't go that use year.

 

[CVW]

Originally posted by sjcampbl
How about if you make an 11 month reservation at your primary resort, then try to switch at 7 months to another resort?

There's no problem with making such a switch, provided the other resort has availability.

 

[OKWKirt]

Twice in this thread an incorrect statement was made: "points in holding can only be used within 60 days of your new UY". They can only be used for reservations being made within 60 days of your travel dates, not the end of your UY.

 

[laceemouse]

Kirt brings up a good point. Here is my real life example. We decided in August to make a quick 4 night trip in October as the kids have a long weekend for Columbus day. We got a 2 bedroom at OKW. We borrowed 160 points from next year, our UY is December (own at BCV, although not relevant to this ?) If we cancelled less than 30 days out (not likely at this point barring an emergancy) how could we use those points in the last 60 days of this UY, in October or November? If Kirt is correct, could we re-use those points any time as long as we book and travel within the time frame (can't remember, 60 days?) I do not plan on cancelling, but if I did what would happen to my points? I thought this was going to be a lot easier to understand LOL!!! We HAD to borrow as we were out of points! We need more but that is another thread.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by laceemouse
If we cancelled less than 30 days out (not likely at this point barring an emergancy) how could we use those points in the last 60 days of this UY, in October or November? If Kirt is correct, could we re-use those points any time as long as we book and travel within the time frame (can't remember, 60 days?) I do not plan on cancelling, but if I did what would happen to my points?

You would still have to use them by the end of your Use Year. That's why the Use Year can be particularly important if you travel the same time of year.

In your example, even if you cancelled more than 31 days in advance, you still MUST use the points before 11/30/04 or they are forfeit. Borrowing points moves them from one Use Year to another, and this is a permanent transaction. Points cannot be "un-borrowed" even if you cancel the trip more than 31 days out.

Back to the topic of Holding Account Points, here is the formal info from the web site:

- You can use these Vacation Points for a new Disney Vacation Club Resort reservation during your current Use Year as long as you book the reservation 60 or less days before the new check-in date.

- You can use these Vacation Points for an exchange through The Disney Collection, Concierge Collection, Adventurer Collection, and World Passport Collection if you make the reservation 60 or less days before the new arrival date and more than 60 days before the end of your Use Year.

- You cannot bank or borrow these Vacation Points.

- These Vacation Points will expire at the end of your Use Year if they aren't used.

As you can see from the first point listed above, the trip must be booked 60 days before checkin. As OKWKirt noted, some people have erroneously reported the criteria as "60 days before the end of the Use Year."

 

[sjcampbl]

Thanks for the help, all. I think it's clear as mud now. No, not really. It is a lot more complicated than I first thought, though. We are still in ROFR for OKW. I assume that once everything goes through we will be delivered with some instructions and more formal explanation of all the rules.

Thanks again,
Shawn