Commerical Use Policy Update - New Thread!

[Girlstar30]

To further elaborate: if I am not mistaken, RIV POS say that using a broker or other Internet site to rent point is forbidden. Could they ban it for older resorts saying it falls into commercial activity? I'd say it restricts rights to rent a bit too much to be considered just a change of the definition of commercial renting.

I have purchased a Riviera rental from dvc rental store and vdh is this not allowed?? Something i would really like to know!

 

[Sandisw]

To further elaborate: if I am not mistaken, RIV POS say that using a broker or other Internet site to rent point is forbidden. Could they ban it for older resorts saying it falls into commercial activity? I'd say it restricts rights to rent a bit too much to be considered just a change of the definition of commercial renting.

It doesn’t save it’s forbidden. It’s says regular use of a broker can be seen as a pattern of rental activity, amongst other things.

The use of the word “regular” adds context which seem important given the contract states a “pattern of rental….”

I think it’s why the updated T and C were worded the way they were…

Based what I have learned, the current policy does give insight into the levels of renting DVC themselves see as the tipping point.

The only restriction we have is that we don’t rent to the degree DVC can reasonably conclude is a commercial enterprise, etc.

So, any changes to the limit renting beyond what can rise to the level of commercial enterprise, etc, would be something owners would need to vote

For example. If they said that owners can’t rent reservations during December, IMO, would be a stretch and would require a vote.

In terms of using the specifics from RIv and beyond in an offical policy?

I’m not sure but most of them appear they’d fit into a reasonable definition of what makes one rise to a commercial level.

And, to a certain extent, having those there for those owners, might be enough to use outside of the 2011 policy for those owners whose contract has that language.

But for those owners whose contract doesn’t? As I have mentioned, my information is that DVC should have that somewhere in writing for your preRIV owners if they will be using those outside of the official policy

But, the contract still requires DVC to show that the actions of an owner show they are in it for a purpose other than for personal use, which includes some level of renting.

Now, DVC can do something that doesn’t seem legal and force owners to fight them in court, but I think from past experience, if they know their moves are questionable, the reverse course.

And, as I have said, they have chosen not to update the 2011 policy, chose to only add the phrase “personal use is not regularly or frequently” renting with no mention on who you can rent to or where you can rent out your points.

I believe that if the DVC lawyers thought they can do any of those things without running into legal hurdles, including the 2021 law, they would have changed the documents to reflect it by now vs just giving MS scripts to focus on family and friends when discussing renting and letting owners draw conclusions.

Again, who knows if they plan more changes in practice or in updated language.

It will be interesting to see what I get in my response but based on the questions I asked, I am not anticipating any answers quickly because I am pretty sure they will be involving legal again before answering.

ETA: What they are not allowed to do is violate what is written in offical documents which is why the pre RIv resorts are different than the RIV and beyond one’s, especially CFW which isn’t a leasehold condo.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It doesn’t save it’s forbidden. It’s says regular use of a broker can be seen as a pattern of rental activity, amongst other things.

While just my opinion I think times have changed and use of a broker heavily leans non commercial activity. Now commercial renters have their own platforms for renting, their own contracts etc because social media and even website building is way more easy and powerful than it once was. Its easy to find your own renters and keep the extra $6-$8 per point you would pay a broker for yourself.

I will play devils advocate here and say that they could be using the broker terminology because if you are using a broker that proves that it is not a friend or family member.

Disclaimer: I am speaking of when a member is using a broker as a facilitator for renting not when a broker is the member renting their own points. That is a different thing entirely.

 

[Sandisw]

While just my opinion I think times have changed and use of a broker heavily leans non commercial activity. Now commercial renters have their own platforms for renting, their own contracts etc because social media and even website building is way more easy and powerful than it once was. Its easy to find your own renters and keep the extra $6-$8 per point you would pay a broker for yourself.

I will play devils advocate here and say that they could be using the broker terminology because if you are using a broker that proves that it is not a friend or family member.

Disclaimer: I am speaking of when a member is using a broker as a facilitator for renting not when a broker is the member renting their own points. That is a different thing entirely.

Speculation here.

I definitely am of the opinion that those specific examples of what can be used were added to RIV and beyond because DVD wanted and needed to make those offical actions they could use to support taking action against an owner, given their offical written policy.

But what is very interesting is that they added them to some of the MS scripts but not to the updated T and C.

Some believe it’s because they didn’t need to but it’s just as plausible that legally they could not. Only DVC knows for sure.

I definitely think that forbidding owners from ever renting to a stranger or even using a broker, if it isn’t done to a level that appear to be a membership for commercial purposes would be one that could very well run afoul with all the FL laws regulating renting for condos and timeshare, especially FL 718.111

Not saying that the 20 reservations threshold you have to cross to be considered using your membership for commercial purposes under the offical policy can’t be changed. It certainly could.

Maybe it will happen, but as I have mentioned, to date. DVC has chosen not to change the offical policy or T and C to include any of those things.

Until they do, owners have to rely on the offical policy, the T and C, and other things they see in the POS as guidance to make decisions when booking for others.

Even the RIV and beyond owners have to interpret what it means to “regularly use a broker” because DVC has not defined anywhere, in writing or in their enforcement what that word “regular” means.

 

[BayTower2010]

The whole thing is just crazy. I have owned DVC since 2010 and never rented a single point. I would be willing to bet over 95% of owners are the same. So why is Disney fretting about the 5% or so that do rent points? I would think Disney has bigger fish to fry than worrying about a few owners who try to make a business out of renting points--like finding a new CEO and say making good movies, just my opinion.

 

[chazas]

For now I think this is all a tempest in a teapot for individual owners who rent from time to time. I have changed the lead guest on a few reservations recently both by phone and chat and I was just asked the equivalent of the "check the box" on personal use. I said "yes" and based on the policies Disney has out there to date, I feel perfectly comfortable with that. The CM did not probe any further - I can't imagine they would unless you say something other than "yes, this is for my personal use." The key is "personal use" is not colloquial, they have attached a legal meaning to it, and even if the line is fuzzy they have acknowledged some level of rental activity is fine. As a practical matter I find it exceedingly unlikely that they'd take some sort of action against occasional renters without announcing a new standard first, and that would be tough for them to do.

This whole thing was likely generated by owner complaints against commercial renters.

 

[lowlight]

I have changed the lead guest on a few reservations recently both by phone and chat and I was just asked the equivalent of the "check the box" on personal use. I said "yes" and based on the policies Disney has out there to date, I feel perfectly comfortable with that.

It puts the check in the box or else it gets the NO again.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Every time the website goes down I keep looking to see if we have a second checkbox asking if we are really really sure that it is for personal use.

I've noticed that the website is going down much more frequently and running slower and more erraticly even when it doesn't go down-- I believe it was mentioned in one of these threads that Disney has installed a bunch of new tech on the back end that allows them to more closely monitor what members are doing each time they use the site. I hope it's related to a forthcoming enforcement plan, but I'm not holding my breath. In a related data point, I've noticed that now multiple member services agents have told me they also are struggling more with website errors, slow systems, and things generally are taking a lot longer. Here's hoping we are all suffering for a reason (that reason better not be a second checkbox).

I have changed the lead guest on a few reservations recently both by phone and chat and I was just asked the equivalent of the "check the box" on personal use. I said "yes" and based on the policies Disney has out there to date, I feel perfectly comfortable with that...The key is "personal use" is not colloquial, they have attached a legal meaning to it, and even if the line is fuzzy they have acknowledged some level of rental activity is fine. As a practical matter I find it exceedingly unlikely that they'd take some sort of action against occasional renters without announcing a new standard first, and that would be tough for them to do.

Just keep in mind that they have announced a new standard (terms and conditions are very much a policy and binding contract!), it's right here, and it will even pop up from that sentence if you click on the Terms and Conditions you agreeing to: https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/DVC-Terms-and-Conditions-2025-5-15-25.pdf. I don't know if they will enforce or not, but they have the right to cancel any rentals where we click the box that is outside their understanding of personal use, which they describe as "Personal use may include enjoying the benefits of a DVC Membership with family or allowing use of any reserved Vacation Home to friends and family on occasion. Additionally, personal use means that the member does not regularly or frequently rent/sell reservations booked using their membership."

I do sincerely hope (1) that it does allow infrequent (rare) use of commercial rental brokers and (2) that they do not start the crackdown on people who have their own family on 75% or more of their reservations... if either of those propositions turns out to be untrue, we will not be buying any more points, and we will probably sell at least one contract in the next year. I've never rented more than 5% of my points, but I also don't need $10,000 a year in dues obligations for a product where I'm completely screwed if an emegency comes up 4 weeks out once or twice a decade.

 

[Cyberc1978]

While just my opinion I think times have changed and use of a broker heavily leans non commercial activity. Now commercial renters have their own platforms for renting, their own contracts etc because social media and even website building is way more easy and powerful than it once was. Its easy to find your own renters and keep the extra $6-$8 per point you would pay a broker for yourself.

I will play devils advocate here and say that they could be using the broker terminology because if you are using a broker that proves that it is not a friend or family member.

Disclaimer: I am speaking of when a member is using a broker as a facilitator for renting not when a broker is the member renting their own points. That is a different thing entirely.

Using a broker or not Disney wouldn’t know if they reviewed your account? Even if looking at a brokers website they wouldn’t know which one belonged to you - they could catch you if they tried to book a reservation and got the confirmation number in the end - but honestly that would be too time consuming and Disney could end up with a whole lot of nothing if the reservation was a 1 one off for that specific member.

I would instead think they would use other metrics, metrics that was more easily quantifiable like the if you have more than 20 reservations we start a review. Could be as @Sandisw previously mentioned rent more than you dues worth which could be quantified as more than 1/2 your points.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I've noticed that the website is going down much more frequently and running slower and more erraticly even when it doesn't go down-- I believe it was mentioned in one of these threads that Disney has installed a bunch of new tech on the back end that allows them to more closely monitor what members are doing each time they use the site. I hope it's related to a forthcoming enforcement plan, but I'm not holding my breath. In a related data point, I've noticed that now multiple member services agents have told me they also are struggling more with website errors, slow systems, and things generally are taking a lot longer. Here's hoping we are all suffering for a reason (that reason better not be a second checkbox).

I have mentioned that I can see they have installed software that can record users interactions with the website. IF and that’s a big IF, they rely on that software for any enforcement then it’s honestly a poor attempt.

I’m not a savvy developer type of user more savvy backend type of user and if I’m able to block the new software then the LLC owners with Bots are definitely able to as well.

 

[Sandisw]

Using a broker or not Disney wouldn’t know if they reviewed your account? Even if looking at a brokers website they wouldn’t know which one belonged to you - they could catch you if they tried to book a reservation and got the confirmation number in the end - but honestly that would be too time consuming and Disney could end up with a whole lot of nothing if the reservation was a 1 one off for that specific member.

I would instead think they would use other metrics, metrics that was more easily quantifiable like the if you have more than 20 reservations we start a review. Could be as @Sandisw previously mentioned rent more than you dues worth which could be quantified as more than 1/2 your points.

MS supervisors and frontline CMs have told me and other that renting for the cost of dues is allowed…which would be about half your points giving dues and current rental rates is allowed.

We also know now that the 2011 policy is still the offical policy of record that constitutes commercial enterprise, purpose or practice.

I can only speculate how the dues and that policy would work together.

Even the T and C updated language that states “personal use is not regularly or frequently renting” doesn’t conflict with the 2011 policy because there is nothing else in our documents that defines those two words differently.

So, we are back to as owners, all having to decide, based on everything written, and how DVC has always interpretation and enforced it. absent any changes form them. our own choices.

I did read the multisite POS last night and there is nothing specific in there but it did say that every owner should consult their component site POS documents for details and additional restrictions and controls.

Which, for RIv and beyond, we know they added specific criteria that can be used to define a “pattern”.

Side note…I never noticed but a clause exists that states those who did not choose to extend OKW to 2057, will expire 2042 so its already been added to offical documents

 

[Brian Noble]

IF and that’s a big IF, they rely on that software for any enforcement

This is much more easily explained by Surveillance Capitalism (tm).

 

[VGCgroupie]

Using a broker or not Disney wouldn’t know if they reviewed your account? Even if looking at a brokers website they wouldn’t know which one belonged to you - they could catch you if they tried to book a reservation and got the confirmation number in the end - but honestly that would be too time consuming and Disney could end up with a whole lot of nothing if the reservation was a 1 one off for that specific member.

I would instead think they would use other metrics, metrics that was more easily quantifiable like the if you have more than 20 reservations we start a review. Could be as @Sandisw previously mentioned rent more than you dues worth which could be quantified as more than 1/2 your points.

True, the only way they would know is if you had to give DVC the rental contract.

 

[Judique]

Did anyone else just notice a ton of availability pop up for several months under 7 months? Might be nothing, but I was looking to add on to a rental and there has been nothing available for months until an hour ago, when a bunch popped up at many different resorts.

Interesting! I had a waitlist fill on Sunday, July 20 for a standard studio at BWV in January (2026). It was the 1st night of what I wanted. I had booked six nights at 11 months and had to waitlist my first night.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Interesting! I had a waitlist fill on Sunday, July 20 for a standard studio at BWV in January (2026). It was the 1st night of what I wanted. I had booked six nights at 11 months and had to waitlist my first night.

It was Boardwalk that I saw open up like crazy

 

[Brianstl]

It was Boardwalk that I saw open up like crazy

That was definitely weird. Feels like someone got hit.

 

[lowlight]

It was Boardwalk that I saw open up like crazy

Without mentioning dates, Boardwalk, Riviera, OKW, SSR, AKV, and Beach Club had a bunch of availability pop up at the same time that was most certainly not there previously. I believe I checked at just about the exact moment everything opened up, since most of it is now gone again. I had been checking several times a day for weeks. For one of those resorts, two entire months of availability opened up. There could certainly be multiple other explanations, it was just really weird to watch it happen.

 

[Judique]

Without mentioning dates, Boardwalk, Riviera, OKW, SSR, AKV, and Beach Club had a bunch of availability pop up at the same time that was most certainly not there previously. I believe I checked at just about the exact moment everything opened up, since most of it is now gone again. I had been checking several times a day for weeks. For one of those resorts, two entire months of availability opened up. There could certainly be multiple other explanations, it was just really weird to watch it happen.

Website down again, or rather the 7 dwarves are busy. I was going in to check for a BCV room. The week at BWV takes care of my BWV points that I'm allowing myself to spend. However when I couldn't get all the nights, I booked 'some' BCV nights. Had recently noticed I had some BCV points that needed to be used by Oct 26 so after a bit of reading today, decided I should put in a BCV waitlist for 1 more night just in case I get lucky. That will give me a split stay at BWV and BCV for 10 nights - in cold, possibly snowy January!

 

[lowlight]

Website down again, or rather the 7 dwarves are busy. I was going in to check for a BCV room. The week at BWV takes care of my BWV points that I'm allowing myself to spend. However when I couldn't get all the nights, I booked 'some' BCV nights. Had recently noticed I had some BCV points that needed to be used by Oct 26 so after a bit of reading today, decided I should put in a BCV waitlist for 1 more night just in case I get lucky. That will give me a split stay at BWV and BCV for 10 nights - in cold, possibly snowy January!

Good luck! I'm just curious what happened. BLT is the only refurb going on now, right? I was thinking maybe a huge chunk of rooms opened up and it filled waitlists, which created a domino effect, but it was very concentrated in certain areas.

 

[Mouseforward]

@ 7 months it could be trade outs updating in the system. I have noticed when you give up a week it does not become instantly available for someone else to book.