Comcast is going to cream Disney

[TuneTownMagic]

I agree. The parks feed off each other. US has everything to gain by pushing Disney to expand. WDW expansion won't shut down US it will just bring more people to Orlando.

I never get the Star Wars argument either. I like Star Wars, would love to see a land if they don't pull another NFL. However I can totally see why Disney is in no hurry to build SW land. They will spend a ton of money on it, spend 10 years developing it and in the end it will end up attracting millions of sci-fy fans to Orlando. Disney will build 2 rides a restaurant and a Yoda M&G. That will turn DHS into a legitimate full day park. So then what are all those sci-fy fans going to do next?
7DMT, Splash, VOTLM?
OR
Spiderman, Hulk, Transformers, MIB, wizards, fire breathing dragons?

Don't really care who is beating who at the attendance game, but it seems like US is doing a good job at positioning themselves to catch a good portion of the park going public. Seems like to me Disney would be wiser to do a Pixar expansion in DHS that would appeal to the people they already cater to vs. attracting a bunch of people that are more likely to get siphoned off.

Very good point, I never thought of it that way!

 

[Disneychick75]

So the new Harry potter ride is been down all morning and they have left people inline since 7am. Looks like a real well run operation.

Because Disney's rides never have stoppages and the MB never have glitches.
Uni is building amazing rides and Disney has The Little Mermaid, a Nemo redo with different characters and Mine Coaster- yippee

 

[ChipnDale79]

So the new Harry potter ride is been down all morning and they have left people inline since 7am. Looks like a real well run operation.

Rides have glitches, they take time to smooth out.

I got stuck on Pirates for 45 minutes in the auction scene. Can't tell you how many times I heard.."We wants the redhead"...before they finally shut down everything and turned the lights on.....

 

[tfc3rid]

Yet when Little Mermaid opened at Magic Kingdom with glitches in some of the AA's it was said it would remain forever cause Disney built the ride cheap and didn't take the time to do it right. Im sure the ride will be fixed but yea everyone is coming to try this new ride only to be told they aren't riding.

If The Little Mermaid can get the enhancements the version at DCA got, it will be much improved.

 

[Disneychick75]

Rides have glitches, they take time to smooth out.

I got stuck on Pirates for 45 minutes in the auction scene. Can't tell you how many times I heard.."We wants the redhead"...before they finally shut down everything and turned the lights on.....

About 5 years ago, we were stuck on IASW for about the same amount of time. I was very tempted to hop out of the boat. This past April was the first time I rode it since that incident. Happily, it was smooth sailing.

 

[rteetz]

If The Little Mermaid can get the enhancements the version at DCA got, it will be much improved.

which it is supposed to in the next year or two

 

[tjkraz]

This is the same old thing...


Comcast and Disney are in very different positions/starting points....

Like a bicycle race where the leader goes off with a 10 minute head start...

But...big but...Disney has stayed the course of measured/profit generation Only capital projects as opposed to Comcast's "chaser" approach that has rewarded it's customers on a much higher level.

Yup....agree. Send the prototypical nuclear family into both WDW and USF for the first time. Which theme park complex gets higher marks?

Most of the anti-Disney noise is coming from the frequent guests who have been to the parks dozens of times. They see Universal building and consider WDW to be stale. There may be some truth to that, but USF's growth mode makes the disparity appear even greater.

That said, Disney is now at greater risk of losing some of that long-time business. If there was ever a situation where they needed to step up with something bold, it's now. Most obvious solution is something that begins with a "Star" and ends with a "Wars."

It's also an opportunity to show if there's any pride left in WDI or the executive board room. I'm not a Harry Potter fan and have only seen scattered coverage of the new USF attractions. From what I've seen, looks pretty impressive. Is Disney willing to do something on that scale or will we just get Backlot Express rethemed to the SW Cantina and an expanded Jedi training?

In recent years, Disney has earned a reputation for spending only what it needs to spend (or less.) But this may be a situation where they need to pull out the stops and prove that they can still "bring it."

 

[rteetz]

Yup....agree. Send the prototypical nuclear family into both WDW and USF for the first time. Which theme park complex gets higher marks?

Most of the anti-Disney noise is coming from the frequent guests who have been to the parks dozens of times. They see Universal building and consider WDW to be stale. There may be some truth to that, but USF's growth mode makes the disparity appear even greater.

That said, Disney is now at greater risk of losing some of that long-time business. If there was ever a situation where they needed to step up with something bold, it's now. Most obvious solution is something that begins with a "Star" and ends with a "Wars."

It's also an opportunity to show if there's any pride left in WDI or the executive board room. I'm not a Harry Potter fan and have only seen scattered coverage of the new USF attractions. From what I've seen, looks pretty impressive. Is Disney willing to do something on that scale or will we just get Backlot Express rethemed to the SW Cantina and an expanded Jedi training?

In recent years, Disney has earned a reputation for spending only what it needs to spend (or less.) But this may be a situation where they need to pull out the stops and prove that they can still "bring it."

I think there is still pride within WDI. Imagineers do the best with what they are given. The problem lies in the board room. executives don't give WDI the platforms to do amazing work. I am sure within the last 5 years many many ideas have gone around in WDI and drawing etc but disney execs won't give the green light because they don't want to spend the money.

 

[tjkraz]

I think there is still pride within WDI. Imagineers do the best with what they are given. The problem lies in the board room. executives don't give WDI the platforms to do amazing work. I am sure within the last 5 years many many ideas have gone around in WDI and drawing etc but disney execs won't give the green light because they don't want to spend the money.

I cannot always agree. The tab for Phase 1 of Harry Potter was $250 million. Can we point to any recent enhancement at any of the Disney parks which made an equal impact for that relatively modest sum? If memory serves, Cars Land at DCA cost 3x as much.

Then there's the Fantasyland expansion which was waaaaaaayyyy too heavy on theming and environment at the expense of actual attractions. (And raise your hand if you really think Circus Land was the best option available for that plot of land in the most visited theme park in the world.)

It's probably worth mentioning the Yeti here somewhere, too.

 

[longrf01]

My outlook is "skeptical." For these reasons:

According to Yahoo! Finance, about 30% of DIS stock is held by mutual funds and institutional investors. Looking over the names of the firms, it appears they're investing in DIS as an "income" investment, not a "growth" investment. In other words, the only thing that matters is next quarter's dividend check. The Board is going to be handcuffed from making any "bold" or "risky" moves like the Company once did; remember Walt and Roy mortgaged the whole Company to produce Snow White then did it again with DLR. That kind of risk just isn't going to fly.

Reviewing the income statements, it would appear Parks & Resorts is the red headed step child. While that division has some pretty interesting top-line numbers, the expenses are phenomenal and the resulting margin (~13%) really pales compared to other segments (in the 25 - 30%+).

When your investors are interested in income rather than growth, whatever "risk capital" you have available is going to go media networks and other segments.

If I were on the Board, the only way P&R would get a dime is if they can prove it's going to bump the margins. I think it's hard to empirically demonstrate a single attraction or project will result in income and margins. I think MyMagic+ passed muster because the narrative was a) time in shops, restaurants = $$, time in lines not, b) if we can spread the crowd load out to A/B/C ticket rides we can have some labor / productivity gains, c) we'll collect better guest profiles.

Now, on the flip side, if my investors were growth oriented and had a higher risk tolerance, it's a whole different story. Long term the parks produce steady income with less volatility than studio productions. But even then I'm not sure Orlando or Anaheim are places where I'm going to get the best ROI. China, Brazil, and Dubai would be better - high disposable income, not canabalizing DLR or WDW (except for Brazil's effect on WDW).

In other words, the lawyers, accountants, and shareholders are in charge. Not the Imagineers, creatives, visionaries, or magic-making cast members.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

^^^^ This ^^^^

Ive been beating around this for 5 years...but have thus far been too lazy and unintelligent to express it.

Thank you...
and i would like to see one of the small minded "ha ha...disney is the best" responses.

this is the whole problem with themeparks...with orlando being firmly lodged at the bottom of the bowl.

but its based on practical economics...not on "the imagineers are really working on something" red herring nonsense.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think there is still pride within WDI. Imagineers do the best with what they are given. The problem lies in the board room. executives don't give WDI the platforms to do amazing work. I am sure within the last 5 years many many ideas have gone around in WDI and drawing etc but disney execs won't give the green light because they don't want to spend the money.

i think eisner gutted imagineering...and iger has then removed its heart like temple of doom...

and its a marginal paper tiger at this point...unless its something that the execs take personally...like a black eye up the street from their offices or chinese bases to secure longterm, cheap crap manufacturing deals for the walmart shelves...

or if someone else is paying....

none of those situation apply to orlando nor ever will.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I cannot always agree. The tab for Phase 1 of Harry Potter was $250 million. Can we point to any recent enhancement at any of the Disney parks which made an equal impact for that relatively modest sum? If memory serves, Cars Land at DCA cost 3x as much.

Then there's the Fantasyland expansion which was waaaaaaayyyy too heavy on theming and environment at the expense of actual attractions. (And raise your hand if you really think Circus Land was the best option available for that plot of land in the most visited theme park in the world.)

It's probably worth mentioning the Yeti here somewhere, too.

i see you've brought gasoline to my fire...

 

[tjkraz]

In other words, the lawyers, accountants, and shareholders are in charge. Not the Imagineers, creatives, visionaries, or magic-making cast members.

While this is true, my primary complaint lies along different lines. Biggest issue I have is that Disney never seems to get as much "bang for its buck" as its competitors.

Again, phase 1 of WWoHP was $250 million. That includes the Forbidden Journey attraction, all of the shops, restaurant and some admittedly light retheming on two existing attractions.

Disney spent more than twice as much for WDW Fantasyland. They spent 3x as much on Cars Land.

Granted part of the appeal of WWoHP lies in its uniqueness. But dollar-for-dollar, Disney just doesn't seem to be able to get as much return on their investments. Again, twice as much spent for FLE and we got a decent kiddie coaster, a cloned dark ride, a toddler-centric stage show and a restaurant. That's it.

Disney's spending is probably similar to Universal...but if so, Universal is clearly able to get more value for those dollars.

 

[rteetz]

While this is true, my primary complaint lies along different lines. Biggest issue I have is that Disney never seems to get as much "bang for its buck" as its competitors.

Again, phase 1 of WWoHP was $250 million. That includes the Forbidden Journey attraction, all of the shops, restaurant and some admittedly light retheming on two existing attractions.

Disney spent more than twice as much for WDW Fantasyland. They spent 3x as much on Cars Land.

Granted part of the appeal of WWoHP lies in its uniqueness. But dollar-for-dollar, Disney just doesn't seem to be able to get as much return on their investments. Again, twice as much spent for FLE and we got a decent kiddie coaster, a cloned dark ride, a toddler-centric stage show and a restaurant. That's it.

Disney's spending is probably similar to Universal...but if so, Universal is clearly able to get more value for those dollars.

Just think we almost didn't get the kiddie coaster, they threw that in last minute because of the lack of attractions in the expansion. I think Cars was justified with its cost, the rock work, the e ticket, two lesser ticket rides, some quick service dining options, its a really fantastic land. Fantasyland expansion gave three unique to WDW things and only 1 of those is with it that being be our guest.

 

[Chuckers]

I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to go to US and see the new HP land and ride the new Gringotts ride.. but that's not going to happen any time soon.. why? Because I won't FIT in those new rides. Most theme/amusement parks are not (as we say here) Pooh sized friendly.

Larger guests spend money also... There is not one ride that I can't fit in at ANY Disney park in America. Yes, I can lose weight.. and I am/have tried.. but I am sure as heck NOT going to pay $100+ for a CHANCE to ride a headliner at US/IoA. Unless you are a person of size, like me, you don't know what it's like to wait 2+ hours for a ride only to find out you don't fit. It's embarrassing, disheartening, and can really ruin the day.

True the Seven Dwarfs Meh Train and Ariel's Underwhelming Adventures aren't the greatest of rides, but they are totally family friendly and big boy friendly. That's important to me. I can enjoy every thrill ride and not-so thrill ride at Disney and never have to do the 'walk of shame' when the ride's seating doesn't accommodate me.

For those who are saying 'Avatarland' isn't going to save AK... how do you know? Has there been a release of attractions going in to the land? Just because someone doesn't like the movie, doesn't mean the attractions are going to stink.

Actually, I hope US/IoA DOES pull A LOT people from Disney.. especially in the middle of this October, like the 11th - 18th.

 

[dwight16]

Ok they got a 250mil bang for Their buck bc first they are a one trick pony and they finally tapped into a gigantic fan base. Second they only built 1 ride and some shops with that money redid 2 existing rides to make a "land" all and all people for the last 4 years went there to ride 1 ride and buy some candy and a wand and drink sugar water with foam. They cashed in and did a great job doing it credit given. Disney is already to large for an investment like that to pay off in droves especially in Florida. Take a look at cars land it was 3 times as much but they built 3 rides and a bunch of new shops and used expensive California labor. That also impacted that park in a large amount I think a 20-30% bump in attendance. Smaller parks can make a splash with a big investment. Disneys job is to maintain the 17 of so million people a year who go
To the MK and increase revs and profits by 3-6% a year either by more people going or raising prices or both. New stuff will come bc if they would post a negative number all that amazing money they made for shareholders would go away real quick. Wall Street hates negative growth!!!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

While this is true, my primary complaint lies along different lines. Biggest issue I have is that Disney never seems to get as much "bang for its buck" as its competitors.

Again, phase 1 of WWoHP was $250 million. That includes the Forbidden Journey attraction, all of the shops, restaurant and some admittedly light retheming on two existing attractions.

Disney spent more than twice as much for WDW Fantasyland. They spent 3x as much on Cars Land.

Granted part of the appeal of WWoHP lies in its uniqueness. But dollar-for-dollar, Disney just doesn't seem to be able to get as much return on their investments. Again, twice as much spent for FLE and we got a decent kiddie coaster, a cloned dark ride, a toddler-centric stage show and a restaurant. That's it.

Disney's spending is probably similar to Universal...but if so, Universal is clearly able to get more value for those dollars.

Part of their problem is their bloated timelines...

If you have ever been around a construction project...you know that once a meter is running, it's running. That contributes to the bloat and lack of return on investment.

Second, they play the shell game with the numbers for hocus locus PR. Announce this "big, expensive" Investment and then Almost immediate slash it in half and end up coming up short. That tends to happen more and more in WDW....the fantasyland expansion was supposed to be a major, nobody does it like Disney retrofit for a 40 year old park.

It's a couple of flats and a fairly bad restaurant...I mean...it is

And as you said...the mine train was added because the whole thing would probably have bombed had they not thrown it in over the Long haul.

 

[ahoyle]

Why are Disney fans so negative on Universal. I consider myself a Disney fan. My wife went to HS last night just to try to do the Frozen stuff but gave up from the storms.

Calling Universal a one trick pony? You realize they have great rides, great theming across the board. Notice nowhere did I say better in that sentence. They do child swap 100x times better than Disney. Thats one thing you never see brought up on here about how terrible Universal is for little ones. Universal lets my kid watch the Hulk cartoon in air conditioning while I ride the ride. Then my spouse can get right on, not wait through another 5-10 minutes in the fast.

Universal went through a period where it was stagnant and not investing in the parks. Now they are doing a great job, far superior to what Disney is doing (in building/expanding). Disney is classic, so as long as they maintain that, maybe thats enough for first time guests. I am not...I am the 100x guest...so I want to see new things. I'll always go back for POTC, HM, etc...but there won't be a sense of urgency there if they continue to go the route they are on.

Whats hard about acknowledging Universal is doing a great job for Disney fans? They have, at least IMO, more great rides per park than Disney (maybe MK excluded). For my sons generation (9), they have characters he likes just about as much as well. They'll never be able to catch up in the eyes of some. They can't go 40 years in the past and build a classic ride you grew up on, or involve classic characters you grew up watching.

If Disney's best ideas are expanding TSM (a good ride, but lets be honest, it dated fast once you can basically play it at home) and adding more theaters to a very dated Soarin ride, as a Disney fan I worry about what the next 5 years will bring me.

 

[clsteve]

Yup....agree. Send the prototypical nuclear family into both WDW and USF for the first time. Which theme park complex gets higher marks?

Most of the anti-Disney noise is coming from the frequent guests who have been to the parks dozens of times. They see Universal building and consider WDW to be stale. There may be some truth to that, but USF's growth mode makes the disparity appear even greater.

That said, Disney is now at greater risk of losing some of that long-time business. If there was ever a situation where they needed to step up with something bold, it's now. Most obvious solution is something that begins with a "Star" and ends with a "Wars."

It's also an opportunity to show if there's any pride left in WDI or the executive board room. I'm not a Harry Potter fan and have only seen scattered coverage of the new USF attractions. From what I've seen, looks pretty impressive. Is Disney willing to do something on that scale or will we just get Backlot Express rethemed to the SW Cantina and an expanded Jedi training?

In recent years, Disney has earned a reputation for spending only what it needs to spend (or less.) But this may be a situation where they need to pull out the stops and prove that they can still "bring it."

This pretty much nails the issue and shows what causes much of the angst and vitriol for many on this board: the (arguably) two highest revenue generating populations: first-timers and DVC are in conflict over Disney's strategic direction. You can throw the Mega-repeats guests in with DVC

Hard to argue that Disney's been aggressive and incredibly successful penetrating new markets for guests (especially international). Everything at WDW is fresh and new to them. The Magic still sells incredibly well.

Not so much for the other half. And that's what Uni's really starting to highlight. But, so does Shanghai and DisneySea.

But until length-of-stay or length-of-park-ticket purchased are impacted, they'll probably continue to look on Uni's growth as a net gain in bringing more visitors to Orlando and stick to the slow, plodding course they've been following...

You have faith that the engineers have any say over the accountants...

As long as the CEO is more cheapsuit/banker than creative/mechanical...you're gonna lose that battle


And remember...Michael Eisner came in working to make TV and movies...he only became an accountant later.

Iger is a TV boardroom guy...from the agency of Dewey Cheatum and Howell

And in "accountant think" revenue and profit are flowing, they can get guests to stand in line for 5 hours with just adding an M&G (the easiest, cheapest, lowest maintenance attraction of all), new markets are flowing in --- so what's broken to them? And, if it isn't going to be broken until after their watch, what's their incentive to fix it now? That's the scary thing - they have plenty to point to as great successes during their tenure. If they've mis-calculated the needed balance between status quo and innovation - they'll be long gone and it will be there for someone else to fix