College Sororities - Sad and Confused......kinda of long sorry

[swilphil]

I haven't read this entire thread-- couldn't handle the pro/con Greek debate. I was in a sorority in college and it was actually a good experience at the time, but 25 years later I realize that it wasn't the end-all, be-all. I'm also pretty sure if I had attended a Big 10 School, I would not have have been in one. Nothing against the Big 10 (went to 1 for Grad School). I just know in most of those situations, Greek Life is much more competitive.

I would just like to add that who gets a bid during Rush can be very random. It might depend on who you talked to during the Rush parties and who is most vocal during the rush meetings. Even just when your name comes up during the selection process can make a difference. Sometimes it's just bad luck that you don't get a bid.

I'm not sure what your daughter wanted out of being in a house, but on a Big 10 campuses you can still have most of the same experiences elsewhere that you can have by being in a sorority. If there are individuals in that house who your daughter specifically felt a connection to, there's nothing stopping her from sending that person an e-mail or adding her to her Facebook page.

 

[Karibeth19]

When I was in college at OU in the late 80's, Greek was beyond huge on campus. It was very much Greek or geek. I rushed and pledged a very popular house. I know the sting of rejection though b/c my first couple of choices cut me, but in the end here's my insight on what your daughter is missing out on: not a lot. I had a 4.0 and was STILL forced to sit through mandatory study hall, my parents didn't have a lot of money and all I remember was dues, dues, dues. If it wasn't dues, it was "Here, go sell these balloons for $2 each and if you can't sell them all, you're buying them". It was a LOT of mandatory parties at frat houses. If you couldn't make it on a Tues night and you were on the calendar for that frat party, you had to find your own replacement to go in your place. Test the next day? Well, you better study early or find a girl who'd go in your place.

I remember lots of issues I had with being a pledge - house rules chafed me, it was shocking that "your" room wasn't really yours at all. There was one twin bed for two girls, so you had another bed on a sleeping porch. Call me finicky, but I LIKE having a place of my own that I can always crash in without it being my night for the bed! Ick. Just writing this brings back memories I'd forgotten about!! Was it fun? Sometimes yes. I liked having a pack of girls (the pledges) that I could identify with in class or in the cafeteria. I liked the parties for the most part. I just hated having to ask my parents for more money ALL the time.

I was also in the Greek system at OU in the late 80's, and I don't know which house you pledged (although with your sleeping porch reference, I can narrow it down to 2), but my house wasn't like that at all! We never had mandatory frat parties, or any mandatory parties for that matter; if you couldn't go, you couldn't go, no big deal. A lot of things we were asked to pay for were optional, such as parties, t-shirts, etc. And, the best part, no sleeping porch!! We shared a room with one or two other girls, and had our own beds. Even if I had liked the houses that had sleeping porches, I wouldn't have pledged them for that reason alone, so I agree with you there. Yuck! Yes, we had mandatory study hall, but once you were a full member, the hours required were based on grades, and if you had a 4.0, you weren't required to do any.

So, it's like I said before...just like everything in life, not all sororities or sorority girls are the same, and it's really unfair to paint them with a broad brush. If you had a bad experience, I'm so sorry, but unless you have had experience with every sorority and every sorority girl at every university over the entire country, try not to judge too harshly.

 

[TwinsinCA]

I promise I'm telling the truth. To get more specific, this is how it works. Everyone who wants to rush signs up ahead of time. Then they take the number of rushees and divide it by the number of sororities, and that's how they get the number that each sorority can take. For example, 300 girls sign up to rush, and there are 10 sororites...so each sorority is allowed to take 30 girls. Theoretically, that means that there is a spot for every girl. The problem comes in when all 300 girls want to be in the same 2 or 3 sororities...so now there are 300 girls trying for 60-90 spots. If everyone is willing to be in ANY sorority, there would of course be a spot for them, but such is life, a lot of them are trying for the same ones.

Ok so the university does NOT set a firm max per se, it depends on how many women sign up to rush in a given year? (in college MY idea of going to "Rush" was seeing Geddy and friends in concert. But I digress. )

So the women "Rush" and then how do you as a house find out who wants to join YOU and who doesn't? At that point the first 30 who let you know should be in. If they all descend upon you at once and there are 200 of them, then hold a lottery for the spots. THAT would be fair.

Even more fair would be to simply let the unpopular houses die out naturally. Survival of the fittest and all that. If they can't sustain themselves by their own merits, maybe they shouldn't be there.

 

[SomedayI'llBe]

So, it's like I said before...just like everything in life, not all sororities or sorority girls are the same, and it's really unfair to paint them with a broad brush. If you had a bad experience, I'm so sorry, but unless you have had experience with every sorority and every sorority girl at every university over the entire country, try not to judge too harshly.

This is what it all come to. Thank you so much.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

OP, this is just one of those painful, hard situations with our children where we can't kiss it and make it all better. You can listen, be sympathetic, tell her it won't hurt forever, etc., but you can't make her pain go away. Only time can do that. And you don't need to help her understand it because she already does; that's why it hurts her so much. She was rejected because a bunch of girls met her, spent some time with her, talked to her, and decided they didn't want her in their club. That's just the truth of it. It's arbitrary. It's silly. And ultimately, I hope she comes to realize that it's meaningless. Those girls don't really know her. One can't know anyone new in such a short time. They simply projected qualities on her — and on all the other girls — based mostly on their own insecurities, superficial values, and flawed self-images. The girl they rejected isn't your DD at all, but rather a false, one-dimensional identity a bunch of girls created in their minds in a very short time. It simply isn't a real assessment of your daughter, because only those who truly know her can make those. Good luck supporting her through this.

Couldn't have said it better.

I'm sorry your daughter is hurting. Remind her that, when one door closes, another opens. When she looks back on her life someday, she'll probably see that becuase of this, she made a different choice, and that led her to the road she ultimately traveled. It all has a way of working out in the end.

 

[TwinsinCA]

Then I suggest you realize that is the truth. To my knowledge, fraternities don't have the "quota" system that sororities do. The numbers are done by the local branch of the National Panhellenic Council- the council that oversees the majority of national sororities. And some rules are set by the university itself- I know that's why some schools can only accept enough girls that they have room to sleep in their house.

I looked up this conference (the council is something different and is not what I think you meant) and it oversees 26 groups. What I cannot figure out is exactly WHO this group is made up of and what sort of authority they have over each sorority. I should point out that it actually SAYS in the mission statement that each group is autonomous.

http://www.npcwomen.org/undergrads/about-npc.aspx

So I am back to wondering who is putting the member caps in place, the university or this NPC? I suppose this might vary by school.


If it is the University -- why doesn't this NPC stand up and fight for the same rights as fraternities have? Are they afraid the schools won't want them around if they push the issue? I really don't get what skin it is off the Universities' collective noses to limit the women and not the men.

If it is the conference self imposing the limits -- then WHY?



Apologies to the OP for getting off track here. And now I am off to watch the Golden Globes Red Carpet.

to all my DIS sisters.

 

[onelilspark]

I am not judging you. I am judging the system, which I find flawed at best. And yes, you may well have had SOME of the same friends, but those sisters whom you consider your life-long friends in another post would probably not have been in your life in any meaningful way.

Who is anyone to say how we make our friends? True, had I not joined I would not have some of the same friends that I do now, but had you not taken the classes that you did in school, had you not joined the clubs that you did, you would not have met the same people you now call friends. All I know is that I was friends with a lot of my current friends before joining the sorority, remained friends with them during (and gained some friends because of joining it) and still have those friends now that I graduated. My best friend and I met because of the sorority, but did have classes together as well. So chances are good that we would have become friends anyway, but because we had more shared experiences, it strengthened our bond. Do you really see our friendship as invalid because we "paid" for it? I don't think you really see it that way.

 

[SomedayI'llBe]

Again- school by school, as you said Twins. Some schools they legislate that the groups cannot have any more girls than the number they can sleep in their house- that's done by the university.

But at the groups its done by the Panhellenic Council- it's done to help maintain equal group size. Now this doesn't always happen, but that's what it attempts. NPC wants the best for all its members, so it tries to do this. It's a double edged sword in the fact that some girls get turned away because of lack of room.

One thing that some campuses do is say that all girls who make it to the final night of recruitment get a bid if they list all the groups they went to that night. My campus personally does this- and it's intriguing, for sure. But there is no way to set this so it works for absolutely every girl every time.

 

[Karibeth19]

So the women "Rush" and then how do you as a house find out who wants to join YOU and who doesn't? At that point the first 30 who let you know should be in. If they all descend upon you at once and there are 200 of them, then hold a lottery for the spots. THAT would be fair.

OK, here's how it goes. Now let me say that I went through the process 20 years ago, and I know things have changed just a bit, though not much. I also know that the process is different from university to university, so with that in mind...

In the spring, potential rushees send in their application forms, picture, high school transcripts, and ACT/SAT scores, along with any personal recommendations from adult sorority alumni. The form details the girls personal and academic achievements, honors and awards, hobbies, talents, and interests. Basically a way of introducing themselves to the houses. Each house on campus (for this example, 13), gets a copy and puts it in a book of rushees.

One week before rush, the members move back into the house after summer break, and start preparing for rush, which includes daily study of the rush book, reading all the application forms. Our house used an overhead projector to display the pictures and forms, so we could recognize the girls and become acquainted with their biographies.

First day of rush, each house hosts 13 "parties", where a group of rushees sees the house for the first time, and is taken around and introduced to the members. It is loud and crazy, and hard to truly get to know if the house/rushee is right, but a good introduction. Each rushee goes to a party at each house, and at the end of the evening will fill out a preference form, ranking the houses in the order they liked them the most. The members spend the evening deciding whom to invite back the next day, and a large majority of those not invited back are those who do not meet grade requirements.

Each subsequent day of rush, there are fewer parties (9,7,5,3,2), and during the parties, the members are assigned a certain rushee to escort, so they are able to study the rushee a bit more, and get to know her better. The parties are also longer each day, so there is more time to get to know each other. At the end of each day, the members decide who they want to ask back (based on grades, class in school, and member interaction at the party)as they work their way down to the university quota, issue invitations, and the rushees decide from those invitations where they want to go the next day. If a rushee is invited back to 9 houses on 7 party day, she can cut the two she didn't like, and decline their invitation. After 7 party day, rushees rank the houses who invited them back, so the houses know just how interested they are. In my house, if a rushee ranked us lower than a 3 (or a 3 the night before two party day), we did not ask them back the next day, because we knew they just weren't interested. By two party day, the two houses the rushee visits are both extremely interested in pledging her, and either one would issue her a bid if she ranks them as number 1 on her preference card that evening.

From my experience, each house had a definite "personality", and as the week progressed, I was able to figure out where I felt comfortable, which girls I felt like myself around, and where I could see myself for the next 4 years. When I was in school, it was extremely rare for a girl to not get a bid from a house if she completed rush. Those that did not get bids usually became dissatisfied midway through the process and dropped out, or did not accept a bid because it didn't come from a house they wanted (Many came with pre-conceived ideas of where they wanted to be, and didn't go in with an open mind.). With so many houses, if a girl wanted in a house, there was a place for her somewhere, and the university made sure the pledge class quota reflected that. Yes, girls got cut from houses they really liked. I did, and it upset me at the time, but I found myself in the house where I was meant to be, as did most of my fellow rushees. It was very much a mutual selection process; I got to know them, they got to know me, and in the end we chose each other.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

You need to look at if you like them too. QUOTE]

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[freckles and boo]

Who is anyone to say how we make our friends? True, had I not joined I would not have some of the same friends that I do now, but had you not taken the classes that you did in school, had you not joined the clubs that you did, you would not have met the same people you now call friends. All I know is that I was friends with a lot of my current friends before joining the sorority, remained friends with them during (and gained some friends because of joining it) and still have those friends now that I graduated. My best friend and I met because of the sorority, but did have classes together as well. So chances are good that we would have become friends anyway, but because we had more shared experiences, it strengthened our bond. Do you really see our friendship as invalid because we "paid" for it? I don't think you really see it that way.

I never said anyone's friendships are invalid. We all walk our different paths and we pick up (and sometimes, lose) friends along the way. But you said that you would have had the same friends had you not received a bid. I don't think that is completely true. I think there is a bit of "enforced" friendship that happens because you have made a commitment to an organization. That doesn't mean you don't like the people but it does mean that you might not have elected to be friends with them outside the organization.

 

[onelilspark]

I never said anyone's friendships are invalid. We all walk our different paths and we pick up (and sometimes, lose) friends along the way. But you said that you would have had the same friends had you not received a bid. I don't think that is completely true. I think there is a bit of "enforced" friendship that happens because you have made a commitment to an organization. That doesn't mean you don't like the people but it does mean that you might not have elected to be friends with them outside the organization.

What I meant by that statement was that the friends I already had who decided to join sororities would have still remained my friend had I chosen to not join one as well.

And we had about 55 girls in our sorority (small school, some schools have more than that in their new member classes alone!) There's no way I could honestly be "friends" with everyone in the sorority, even less of a possibility if I went to a larger school. There were girls that I spent time with during sorority functions but didn't make it a point to go out with after wards. Was it nice when one of them was in one of my classes on that first day so I knew someone? Yes. Did it mean we didn't talk to anyone else? No. That would be silly.

 

[klmall]

I went to a small state school a long time ago and all Greeks houses were off campus. Two of the sororities were quite exclusive and kept to themselves with a 3rd one pretty much open to any girl. The guys had 3 fraternities who were all equally rowdy and would pretty much take anyone who wanted in.

But sororities weren't for me even if I had wanted one, due to cost. Their semester dues were higher than tuition and then still there was room and board. I was on a scholarship and really wanted to be friends with everyone so I ended up independent. My boyfriend (later DH) though pledged and became a chapter officer in his sophomore year so I got to see some of this world through his eyes. We went to parties and fundraisers and walked across campus as pledges had to bow to him (UGH!!!).

He decided to leave his fraternity in spring of his sophomore year when I was one of four nominated for "The Rose" i.e. queen of his spring ball and he found out that I would never win because I was not a member of their sister sorority. That was the last straw for him. And yes, I was pinned and still have his pin. I was hurt at first when he left the circle of people we knew in his fraternity but we still saw them and we found many new friends. I admire him now even more for thinking for himself and not feeling he had to follow the crowd.

So what am I leading to? Obviously being in a sorority meant a great deal to your daughter. She is hurting and she will hurt for awhile but she will find herself on campus.

So many times in life we set our eyes and hearts on a goal and everything revolves around that. Then if we fail we have to find a new goal. It's really hard but we do find something new. I wish her luck and determination!

 

[chrismiss56]

[/Quote] So what am I leading to? Obviously being in a sorority meant a great deal to your daughter. She is hurting and she will hurt for awhile but she will find herself on campus.

So many times in life we set our eyes and hearts on a goal and everything revolves around that. Then if we fail we have to find a new goal. It's really hard but we do find something new. I wish her luck and determination![/QUOTE]

You have all been so kind in your support. My DD will be fine - the waterfall of tears is still happening but I can see that she will move on.....

Thanks again

Have a Magical Disney Day

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I'm glad so many had a great experience with the greek system, but you know what, I'm still bitter about it?

Why? Simply because I was an upper classman, I was uniformly rejected by every social sorority including the two locals, and a service one. Even after I was told to rush again. I knew it was because an upper classman, but I'll tell you something about me. I was always the hated kid in school. I literally received death threats and was subject to a lot of bullying. I saw college as a chance to reinvent myself, to move past that girl who never felt good enough. I thought joining a sorority would be fun. Instead it brought back all those memories of never being good enough for anybody, and it still hurts. It makes me angry that part of my tuition (the student activity fee) goes to a series of organizations that reject people who are perfectly qualified and willing to join them and would make great members. It is my belief that not one cent of any student activity fee should go to it since they are the only system on campus that rejects qualified members on such random and superficial criteria.

Is it sour grapes? Probably. But for once it would have been nice to be good enough for something...

 

[mykidsand_i]

Some of you people have had a bad experiance or two ( or maybe even more) with sororities or frats...so now you hate the entire organization- isn't that just like not liking an entire race of people because you've had a bad experiance with a few of them? Don't let the "few bad apples" ruin your perception of the entire group...

Many of us from frats/sor. work very hard (or have worked very hard) to do great things for other people. We pay to get in, yes, but only because it costs money to run a house (many different organizations pay dues!!! IT COSTS MONEY FOR THEM TO RUN THINGS!!!)...we are people that form a "group" to do good things for others (at least MOST of us are...I know there are bad ones out there!!! Believe me, I would not have joined one or two sororities at my college!!!!). I had many friends outside of the house, my entire life was not about the house, and I joined this group because I enjoyed spending time in an organization while I was in college. There is nothing wrong with it at all.

I am not saying that all sororities are great. I know many stuck up, snobby rich girls that only join because they want to feel "high society"...but that is not all sororities. Generalizing is not good for anyone, any group, any organization. It would be like me saying "I really don't like college people who don't join an organization (ANY organization) because those people don't want to help anyone but themselves." I am NOT SAYING THAT though...just using it as an example.

here are a few dictionary terms...discrimination and prejudice happen in more ways than just race...
discrimination
an unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice

prejudice
a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation

 

[TwinsinCA]

Some of you people have had a bad experiance or two ( or maybe even more) with sororities or frats...so now you hate the entire organization- isn't that just like not liking an entire race of people because you've had a bad experiance with a few of them? Don't let the "few bad apples" ruin your perception of the entire group...

It isn't about a few bad people in the group. Are you not reading the stories being told? It is about the systematic practice of exclusion. And I will not apologize for having a less than favorable opinion of those who support that.

You can sugarcoat it all you want with all the "good" sororities do. But it doesn't change the fact that they also HURT people by their archaic 'selection' process. There have been several examples on this thread alone. It is ironic that a system supposedly in place to build women up also tears them down so cruelly. But I guess once you (in general, not YOU) are "in" you don't care enough to make changes so that this no longer happens to other women.

So if you want to call me a Greek "racist". Go ahead. I can live with that.

 

[madge]

My wife graduated from a large university.
She always says that sororites are for girls that have to buy their friends.

based on that statement

I'd say I got my money's worth. Some of my closest friends are sorority sisters of mine. I wouldn't have met them under other circumstances... I went to a commuter college, and chose to join a sorority to have a sense of connection within the campus.

That's not the only reason I joined a sorority, though. My mother, aunt, and female cousins were all in sororities as well. It's always been a part of the fabric of who I am. I always knew I'd be in a sorority in college. With that said, I know and understand that Rush can be catty and cutthroat. I knew, if I went to the University of Kentucky that I'd never get into my mom's house, even though I was a legacy. I don't have dark hair and my dad didn't make enough money. It is what it is.

 

[kristilew]

I don't think the Greek selection process is archaic. These girls are expected to live together and work together toward common goals. It makes sense that there should be a screening for "fit."

It is a shame that OP's DD is feeling rejected right now. But expectation failure is a huge part of personal growth. She can use this opportunity to take stock of herself, her goals, and the path she wants to be on. She may decide the Greek system isn't for her, and will develop a new goal for herself. Or she may decide she really wants to persue it, and will make a plan, try again, and grow in the process. Either way, she will probably be able to look back in a few years and be glad for the journey. And either way, it's part of life and not something horrible about sororities.

 

[SomedayI'llBe]

It isn't about a few bad people in the group. Are you not reading the stories being told? It is about the systematic practice of exclusion. And I will not apologize for having a less than favorable opinion of those who support that.

You can sugarcoat it all you want with all the "good" sororities do. But it doesn't change the fact that they also HURT people by their archaic 'selection' process. There have been several examples on this thread alone. It is ironic that a system supposedly in place to build women up also tears them down so cruelly. But I guess once you (in general, not YOU) are "in" you don't care enough to make changes so that this no longer happens to other women.

So if you want to call me a Greek "racist". Go ahead. I can live with that.

There's a lot of other practices that work on the process of exclusion. College admission- they look at your resume, and don't really know you. They project qualities on you, just like sorority recruitment. Is that a process of exclusion?

Look, we're honestly hearing stories from the minority. The majority of women who do rush ARE successful. Here's some figures from the University of Arkansas- it has a pretty large Greek system.

712 girls registered for recruitment. 12 girls never showed up, placing it at an even 700. 64 girls decided to not finish the process leaving us with 636. Only 12 girls were not placed anywhere. That number is fairly small.

There's a lot of ways people can get hurt in this world. One of them is placing all their self worth in a single selection process. That's a bad idea for any person.

In the past few years, there has been valiant efforts by many women to help place every woman who wants a slot. The usage of quotas has placed far more women than previously. So don't say that the system isn't changing. The girls are doing more research than ever to try and get a good idea if the girls would fit into their organization. Some people will get hurt- and I HATE that. But we're hearing the horror stories here.

To all who went through rush and were rejected: I am so sorry- really, I truly am. You did not do anything that brought this upon you. But you know what? I'm sure you are still amazing women without that influence.