College Sororities - Sad and Confused......kinda of long sorry

[TwinsinCA]

Saying that the sorority organization is built to bring certain women down is like saying that everyone should get into everything they apply for...should everyone get the job they apply for (no)? Should everyone get to be an actor/actress in a movie role just because they want to (I mean, it's my life long dream to be an actress in a film , but I'm not up to par, so I guess I should feel like the organization of the film industry has crushed me- along with many other women?) Should EVERYONE be let into the college/university they apply to? Should everyone who asks be given a loan (even if they don't qualify)???

But this isn't a job.

This isn't a school.

This isn't even a sports team.

This is a 'club'. This is a group of women who's main purpose is to create a "sisterhood" while helping the community (according to you and others). So why should grades matter? Why should age matter? Why should your mother having been a member matter? Why should ANYTHING matter beyond being enrolled at that school and having an interest to join?

If I want to join Kiwanis or the Lions club, I can. Both are service organizations which do fundraising and community outreach and do not have a list of restrictions on who can and can't join. The fact that sororities are NOT run in a similar fashion makes me think that they are really not as altruistic as they claim.

 

[jezebella]

I'm still having trouble believing this grades requirement given the grades of the people I knew in the Greek system. And please let me know what fundraiser you did for these organizations. I never saw one at all on my campus...unless you count the guys giving out credit card applications - and that was more of a rush activity.

The grades are major....at least in the sororities. We had an entire committee just for that. If our grades dropped, we got put on probation and could not do activities with the sorority. We also had a team of ppl that led tutoring for us, so we could help each other out. Statistically, where I went to college, the greeks had the highest GPA of any organized campus group.

As for our philanthropy, we had a yearly softball tournament to raise money for the children's hospital, we collected teddy bears to send to sick children in hospitals, hooked up with a local women's shelter and volunteered there as well as had fundraisers to benefit them...I could go on....we were always doing one thing or another. It varies from school to school...or maybe you just didn't notice it...I'm not sure. But on our campus, we were very visable. I'm not going to speak for every fraternity or every sorority, but I can speak for mine.

 

[bunny]

Agreed. In my years, we never once mentioned a girl's looks OR money. It was personality and grades.

I also attended a Big 10 school. My best friend in high school rushed a sorority and was accepted. I never did mostly due to the fees and due to the fact that I was a double major.

Anyway she basically had so many things to do with the sorority that she had no time for outside friends. They had a lot of required activities. Also she told me years later that although overall she enjoyed being in the sorority she felt pressured to look and dress a certain way. She even confided that as part of the pledging process all the pledges had to stand in their underwear in front of all the sisters. One of the older sisters would then take a magic marker and circle areas on their bodies where they needed to lose weight or tone up. She said it was quite humiliating.

This was back in the eighties, so maybe things have changed since then.

 

[jezebella]

I also attended a Big 10 school. My best friend in high school rushed a sorority and was accepted. I never did mostly due to the fees and due to the fact that I was a double major.

Anyway she basically had some many things to do with the sorority that she had no time for outside friends. They had a lot of required activities. Also she told me years later that although overall she enjoyed being in the sorority she felt pressured to look and dress a certain way. She even confided that as part of the pledging process all the pledges had to stand in their underwear in front of all the sisters. One of the older sisters would then take a magic marker and circle areas on their bodies where they needed to lose weight or tone up. She said it was quite humiliating.

This was back in the eighties, so maybe things have changed since then.

OMg....yeah..this doesn't happen anymore...and that is taken straight from a made for tv lifetime movie. We have a strict "no hazing" policy. I was almost kind of disappointed when we didn't have to do anything stupid to join....nothing, nada, in fact pledges are treated like sisters from the day they walk in on bid day. We want to keep our sisters, not run them off by degrading them...we try to build self esteem, not knock it down. I know that is a huge pill for some of you to swallow, but our intentions are good. Once again....disclaimer -- this is my sorority experience.

 

[bunny]

I didn't take that from a movie. The greek system at our school was known for hazing. I also had a girl who lived in my dorm and was a little sister at a huge fraternity. She told me that one of the qualifications was to sleep with X number of brothers. I saw another friend's pledge book for joining his frat and alot of the things he had to do to join were disgusting and some even illegal.

 

[mykidsand_i]

A very short list of what our house did in the 4 years I was there...
-Our house made blankets for kids and infants in the local abuse shelters. We made 440 in one year, we donated our free time and the materials.
-we taught a few different classes on "how to do job interviews" to the moms who also lived in those shelters. We did a clothing drive on campus and in the community for women who could not afford the clothing...
-we raised quite a bit of money and donated it to "house of hope" and that money went towards building new homes for families who could not afford to have one...not only did we donate the $ from fundraisers, we all signed up for hours of working to build the homes...
-We collected "coats for kids"
-Many of the girls in our home became and still are lifetime members of girl scouts, we helped the young girls who were in girl scouts learn about life long skills, how to be happy, healthy and sucsessful...to this day I am still a leader of girl scouts.

There are many sororities that do things like this on a yearly basis. Ours was not focused on "parties for the rich and beautiful" it was focused on doing services for others. If a girl wanted to join, but had bad grades, a "not so outgoing" attitude or a "in it for the glamor" thought about sororities- she did not get in.

People need good grades to be in this organization because there's a lot of extra projects (besides school) that need to be focused on...school was important...we had tutors available, because there was always someone in the house who was willing to help with any subject...

people need to have an out-going and friendly,willing to help attitude in order to get into this organization...and like a skill for a sport, this is also a skill. If you are quiet around new people, if you are so busy, you don't have time to help others, if you are not doing well in classes, then those are skills that would show you weren't ready to be a part of this organization.

 

[onelilspark]

I also attended a Big 10 school. My best friend in high school rushed a sorority and was accepted. I never did mostly due to the fees and due to the fact that I was a double major.

Anyway she basically had so many things to do with the sorority that she had no time for outside friends. They had a lot of required activities. Also she told me years later that although overall she enjoyed being in the sorority she felt pressured to look and dress a certain way. She even confided that as part of the pledging process all the pledges had to stand in their underwear in front of all the sisters. One of the older sisters would then take a magic marker and circle areas on their bodies where they needed to lose weight or tone up. She said it was quite humiliating.

This was back in the eighties, so maybe things have changed since then.

OMg....yeah..this doesn't happen anymore...and that is taken straight from a made for tv lifetime movie. We have a strict "no hazing" policy. I was almost kind of disappointed when we didn't have to do anything stupid to join....nothing, nada, in fact pledges are treated like sisters from the day they walk in on bid day. We want to keep our sisters, not run them off by degrading them...we try to build self esteem, not knock it down. I know that is a huge pill for some of you to swallow, but our intentions are good. Once again....disclaimer -- this is my sorority experience.

My experience was the same as jezebella. It was not tolerated. I graduated in '07. Hazing was really one of the giant misconceptions I had when I joined. My friends who had joined before me assured me that it didn't happen. And anyone who knows me would tell you that I speak the truth when I say, if anyone attempted that, I would be out the door so fast they wouldn't even know what hit them. I don't stand for that kind of thing. We weren't really supposed to address those questions during recruitment, but they would come up. And I knew I had those same questions, so I always answered anyway. My response was always the same, "I wouldn't be here if we did." It was the truth.

 

[bunny]

If most pledges are choosen freshman year, how do you judge them on grades? Someone who did really well in high school could really struggle in college.

 

[onelilspark]

If most pledges are choosen freshman year, how do you judge them on grades? Someone who did really well in high school could really struggle in college.

At my school (and many schools) you can't go through recruitment until the second semester of your freshman year.

I don't know how it works for schools where you can go through that first semester. I'm a strong advocate of the system we had. It allows you to adjust to college life before joining.

And someone asked why grades were important... this seems relatively obvious to me. Sororities and fraternities are found at schools. You're paying for an education. You want people in the organization with high grades so that when they join, they're able to carry the course load in addition to the activities that come with the sorority. If you have someone join with low grades, then add the activities, they're in danger of failing courses which becomes the sorority's fault.

 

[mykidsand_i]

At my school (and many schools) you can't go through recruitment until the second semester of your freshman year.

I don't know how it works for schools where you can go through that first semester. I'm a strong advocate of the system we had. It allows you to adjust to college life before joining.
.

Yeah, ours too. They REQUIRED you to be at least in your 2nd semester of school before joining, but mine even went as far as "nicely requesting" you to be at least a Soph. status before joining. There were a lot of 2nd semester freshmen who applied and were not accepted because they obviously hadn't adjusted to college life yet. I applied in Jan. and was in my 2nd semester and told that I didn't make it in. Yes, I was upset- but I attempted again in the beg. of my 3rd semester (beg. of my sophmore year) and they happily accepted me. I was quite excited.

 

[TwinsinCA]

And someone asked why grades were important... this seems relatively obvious to me. Sororities and fraternities are found at schools.

And so are many other clubs. Do they all have minimum grade requirements? Shouldn't it be up to the individual whether or not they can manage the time commitments of a given activity that they choose to join? Learning balance is an important lifelong lesson. It seems awfully controlling for the sorority to make the decision FOR them.

 

[onelilspark]

And so are many other clubs. Do they all have minimum grade requirements? Shouldn't it be up to the individual whether or not they can manage the time commitments of a given activity that they choose to join? Learning balance is an important lifelong lesson. It seems awfully controlling for the sorority to make the decision FOR them.

In comparison to the clubs I was in, the sorority was a lot more time consuming. Not to mention, I only paid to be in the sorority and I joined more clubs as my time in college progressed.

 

[K and K's Mommy]

I'm still having trouble believing this grades requirement given the grades of the people I knew in the Greek system. And please let me know what fundraiser you did for these organizations. I never saw one at all on my campus...unless you count the guys giving out credit card applications - and that was more of a rush activity.

In the early 90's the only reason we were allowed to not invite a girl back the first night was because she did not meet the grade point. Sorry, I can't remember what it was. She could have been a legacy, and we still would have had to let her go.

We did a ton of philanthropy projects. Just a few - We went to the blind school and bowled with them, we had blind kids over to our house for trick or treating, we were taught how to screen people for glaucoma which we did at a health fair, and more. All the proceeds from our annual fundraiser went to Aid to the Blind.

My very best friend was Greek - but in a different sorority! She is still my best friend to this day. I got to know the girls in her house, and she knew the girls in my house. Also, I never experienced one bit of hazing.

To the OP - I am so sorry your DD is going through this. I really didn't like the rush part of being in a sorority. In fact, my senior year I got out of it because I was student teaching, and I wasn't at all sad. I don't know if she is taking classes for her major yet, but that is where I met a lot of friends.

Hugs to you and your DD!

 

[SomedayI'llBe]

As for the discussion about grades: Yes, they look at them because they want to make sure the girls can still handle the balance. A high GPA to start with helps to ensure that the GPA will remain high. And yes, there is a large focus on it. I hold an office in my sorority- and it's entire job it to make sure the sisters are keeping up their academics. We do study hours, we're working on getting tutors. It's very important.

And so are many other clubs. Do they all have minimum grade requirements? Shouldn't it be up to the individual whether or not they can manage the time commitments of a given activity that they choose to join? Learning balance is an important lifelong lesson. It seems awfully controlling for the sorority to make the decision FOR them.

Oh, so it's controlling for a sorority to want it's members to be able to handle the commitment? It's really time consuming- well worth it, IMO, but time consuming. There's many schools where you cannot participate in activities if your GPA is too low. Greeks are one and the same: you cannot participate if you don't have the grades. We want to bring the best out of our group, and having good academics is a part of that. That's why we have offices that purely focus on that.


I went through rush my first semester in college (that's how it's done at my school). At no point did I feel like it was demeaning. I was cut from a group my second night- was I disappointed by that? Not really. It was not a place that I would do well in. I did not get a bid to my first choice group- many of my friends did. Did I consider those girls to be "better" than me? No. I knew that there was some reason that I wasn't higher on their list, and while it stung a bit, it didn't hurt my self-esteem. I knew I was every bit as wonderful as many of those girls- they just didn't choose me. But my group DID chose me, and I love my sisters.

 

[Angelhalo]

I have experience with sororities and I don't have ANYTHING, not even one single word of anything good to say about them, so I think she's better off without them. But, I can understand how she's hurting, as well as you. I'm sorry you guys both have to go through this. She'll pull through in time. Just keep calling her and cheering her up.

 

[mykidsand_i]

It's very understandable to be upset when you don't get into an organization...I've not been accepted into a few different things...I know how it feels. But if people have such a fragile self-esteem, then chances are that may be part of the reason why they don't get into a sorority. People who are not comfortable with themselves lack the most important key to being in an organization that focuses on community out-reach and community help. You must be comfortable with who you are BEFORE you can reach out to help others.

As far as the term "hazing" goes...that was almost a swear word in our house. We hated to watch all those movies that had frats ad sororities in them, because they are so far from what really actually happens. YES, some frats and sororities have what is called "hazing" but it's mostly the frat houses that do that...and I've never been accepting of that practice- I'm sure the large majority of sororities are againsed doing anything of the sort. In fact, in our "code of conduct" that was given to us by the university- it was againsed a sorority or frat ON CAMPUS to do any such thing! Now, there were one or two of campus that may have done it, but ours was 100% againsed even the thought of it. Any sorority that does so should not get away with it (even if it is a traditional thing)...

Sororities are not for everyone...some people (obviously) hate them and they think they hate everything that a sorority stands for...fine. Be pig headed about it- but the fact is this...there are sororities left in this country that stand for nothing but HELPING OTHER PEOPLE. I have been on the "vote in or out process" side of things and believe me grades and personality had 100% to do with who was in or out!

 

[Geoff_M]

And re: skill for sports--isn't that subjective? Who qualifies more? The girl with the great layup, or the one who makes the 3 pointers? I know a lot of ppl that have been devastated by sports because where I grew up, it was mostly poliltical and who's parents did what or were boosters, or paid more money in for the team....it's life...life is not fair. We can try as hard as we can to make it that way, but it's just a fact.

"Subjective", yes to a degree, but at least there's a common understanding of the criteria used in the selection process. And a good coach will tell the kids that they cut why they weren't selected and offer suggestions on things to improve for future attempts. Is this "perfect" or "100% fair"?... Of course not... but at least there's a much clearer understanding of the outcome.

I don't consider myself "anti-Greek"... it's just not my style. I too graduated from a the Big 10 school, but didn't rush. I went to a few fraternity parties and saw enough to know that it wasn't for me and if I did rush I'd likely end up in a corner with "Mohammad, Jugdish, Sidney and Clayton" at the Omega House rush party. The only way I'd get into a Greek house would have been to be like a couple other guys I knew and join the house that was for guys that couldn't get accepted by any other house. I must say that during my years in college I didn't see a lot of behavior that did much to dispel many of the negative stereotypes of the Greek system. Yes, I know they do some philanthropic work, but it seemed mostly for the purposes of providing justification for their excesses when they got in hot water. I've never regretted my choice, but I had friends and dorm-mates that went Greek. If that's your thing, then more power to you.

My one and only sibling, my sister, was the social opposite of me. She was much more into the popular crowd growing up and was very fashion conscience. And when she opted for a small southern private college, she became a Tri-Delt as soon as she could. It was her thing. She's now married and has three lovely kids. However, it's interesting to hear her now reflect about her time in the sorority. She went so far as to say that she hoped her daughters didn't opt to join one when they went to college. She's really changed a lot of her views on things.

I suppose it wouldn't work at the college level, but I'm a member of a fraternity/honor society of sorts. It's one associated with Scouting and is called "The Order of the Arrow". The OA, has a very unique way of selecting new members. You aren't voted in by members, you're voted in by non-members. I've always thought that this was a much better way to honor folks instead of the "in group" deciding who's deserving to join them in the club.

 

[Nennie]

Just to add to what others have said about why grades are important:

1) At my college we had a greek dorm with different "quads" (sections), and some were bigger/better than others. Each semester fraternities and sororities would get to pick where they were going to live (i.e. which quad they wanted) and it went by GPA. Highest GPA picked first, and so on. So grades were important and you don't want someone with bad grades bringing down the average as it affected where you were on the list.

2) Sororities (and fraternities) could be put on academic probation if the groups average GPA fell below a certain average (I forget if it was 2.5 or 2.3) which meant no social mixers and no initiations. So yeah, we didn't want a few poor students bringing down our high average.

Likewise, we took pride in our high GPA. Everyone thinks greeks just like to party...and yeah, we partied, but we were also excellent students and wanted to maintain that by refusing to pledge ladies who had below a certain GPA.

~Signed a Zeta Tau Alpha who graduated Magna Cum Laude

 

[mykidsand_i]

~Signed a Zeta Tau Alpha who graduated Magna Cum Laude

Magna Cum Laude here too! Way to go on all your hard work...i know how much work it is to graduate with a high GPA and be involved in all of the fundraisers, meetings, and extra activities...and I had a wedding to plan in my last year of college. It is hard, but every difficult second was worth it!

 

[onelilspark]

Another Greek who graduated cum laude...
One of only a handful in my major to do so.