College entrance cheating scandal

It really makes me curious how much more challenging the actual class material is at a school like Harvard, vs your average state school. Do you really need a perfect ACT score to handle the workload? Are the parents buying good grades for these kids if they can't keep up with the classes? Or is the difficulty level about the same at all colleges, and they earn their "elite" status based on other factors?
That’s a good question. Surely These schools have “better” professors. Awarding winning, nobel prize, published, experts in their fields. BUT as you asked is the course work more challenging????
 
This really upsets me. I have always said that there is a lot of cheating going on in the academic world and I bet this indictment only caught a portion of those cheating. I scanned through the complaint and there was everything from proctors actually changing answers on exams to fake athletic resumes including photoshopped images of the fake athletes. I saw mentions of tennis, soccer and water polo teams at elite schools being involved.
I guess this makes me so mad because I have two daughters who did it the right way. They did not cheat and had to work very hard to get into college and accomplish hard degrees. It feels like everyone who does it honestly is a victim of these crimes.

The business of being "recruited athletes" only affects the starting roster, not the final roster, and especially not the ability of true student athletes to get scholarships. Prestigious schools that normally have high admissions standards for grades and test scores, but which also have major athletic programs, VERY often have a much lower grade/test score admission requirement if the student is an athlete who is expected to play. The catch is that almost all of these schools will not force a student out of the school for failure to play well enough to start, so this is a way to admit otherwise unqualified students who will then get "cut" from their sport a couple of weeks into their first semester. (I'm not defending this practice, and it is definitely against NCAA rules, but if universities are going to deliberately lower academic admission standards for athletes, this WILL happen. It's a weak spot in the system that they cannot make much of a fuss about, given that they are allowing real athletes to bypass academic standards that regular students have to meet.)

I think these days it's more like 100 million or more to get a building named after you.

Depends on the school. At USC (a well-endowed private school) that is probably true, but not everywhere. Most state schools will give you a building name for around $7-10 million.

Private schools will always fudge the undergrad admission standards if enough money hits the table, and the only way that they differ in that is by how much money is enough. (Nowadays, however, one thing that will still keep you out even if you have stacks of greenbacks is connection with certain crimes. Things like credible rape accusations, or having family involved in financial fraud schemes are the kiss of death.)

The Chronicle of Higher Education has a series of articles that explain exactly how the scheme worked, https://www.chronicle.com/specialreport/Admission-Through-the-Side/240. The actual affidavit is available from the Justice Dept. as well. https://www.justice.gov/file/1142876/download

The schools named in the affidavit (whether being targeted by the scheme or participating in it) are: Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA, USD, USC, U-Texas, Wake Forest and Yale.
 
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That’s a good question. Surely These schools have “better” professors. Awarding winning, nobel prize, published, experts in their fields. BUT as you asked is the course work more challenging????

I've worked in the academic world for over 30 years. The true academic prestige of a Name school (and the "better" professors) come into play at the Graduate School level. Undergraduates are considered a necessary evil at most of them, and the coursework is not automatically more difficult at the undergrad level than it is at Name Your State U. It *might* be, depending on the department, but it is equally likely not to be.
 


I think it's a good thing for this corruption to be exposed, I just hope the people involved are actually held accountable. Makes me wonder how many highly qualified students were turned down at these colleges because of this scam. :mad: A little off topic, but I hope the extent of the corruption within the student loan industry is also exposed; this is another ugly can of worms.:crazy2:
 
I think it's a good thing for this corruption to be exposed, I just hope the people involved are actually held accountable. Makes me wonder how many highly qualified students were turned down at these colleges because of this scam. :mad: A little off topic, but I hope the extent of the corruption within the student loan industry is also exposed; this is another ugly can of worms.:crazy2:

If I had to guess, the parents will be held accountable by paying a small fine. And since they have the money, it’s not a punishment that’s really going to hurt them. Their kids will remain in their respective schools and it will all blow over and be forgotten.
 
I've worked in the academic world for over 30 years. The true academic prestige of a Name school (and the "better" professors) come into play at the Graduate School level. Undergraduates are considered a necessary evil at most of them, and the coursework is not automatically more difficult at the undergrad level than it is at Name Your State U. It *might* be, depending on the department, but it is equally likely not to be.

YES!!! 100%!
 


If I had to guess, the parents will be held accountable by paying a small fine. And since they have the money, it’s not a punishment that’s really going to hurt them. Their kids will remain in their respective schools and it will all blow over and be forgotten.
Because they of course have the money for great legal representation.
 
Cheating to get into college has been going on forever. Legacy kids; big donor kids. Or pledge 2.5 million to Harvard and your average son gets in and graduates a Middle East Peace expert (sarcasm)

Though these cases that came out today are crazy.
Exactly. It's well known that some children of wealthy people have made it into some pretty damn prestigious universities although they have, at best, average academic records. Not sure why it is but every time you hear about the kid of some famous person applying at Prestigious U, they almost ALWAYS get admitted. It sure doesn't work that way for the literally thousands of insanely qualified students who apply and are rejected by Prestigious U.
 
I think these days it's more like 100 million or more to get a building named after you.

Back in 1992, a 100 million dollar donation could get the whole college named after you.

Glassboro State College in southern New Jersey changed its name to Rowan University after a rich alumni named Rowan donated that amount.

(Glassboro State College was the site of the summit between President LBJ and Soviet Premiere Kosygin in 1967. I applied and was accepted there as my "safety school" but attended elsewhere.)
 
Does having a lot of money make you stupid? How could anyone think this method of getting into college is good for their kid, and good for that child's adult life? it seems they could have just spent the effort throughout their child's life making sure they were performing according their abilities with tutors, extra classes, summer school (you know, so the kid learned something..maybe pride of accomplishment!) maybe even playing sports. It's not hard to be on the crew team in high school, why not be on it!?

I don't understand the end game of the fraud.
 
That’s a good question. Surely These schools have “better” professors. Awarding winning, nobel prize, published, experts in their fields. BUT as you asked is the course work more challenging????
Prestigious universities have plenty of professors with the accolades you mentioned but the real question is how many of them actually teach classes. My daughter was a graduate assistant at a top 20 university and was teaching labs and grading papers for the big named professor. She was doing this one year out of just graduating herself from a big state school.
 
If I had to guess, the parents will be held accountable by paying a small fine. And since they have the money, it’s not a punishment that’s really going to hurt them. Their kids will remain in their respective schools and it will all blow over and be forgotten.

True and sad.
 
Exactly. It's well known that some children of wealthy people have made it into some pretty damn prestigious universities although they have, at best, average academic records. Not sure why it is but every time you hear about the kid of some famous person applying at Prestigious U, they almost ALWAYS get admitted. It sure doesn't work that way for the literally thousands of insanely qualified students who apply and are rejected by Prestigious U.
There are some exceptions. I personally know of two cases of extremely wealthy people whose children were rejected at a very selective school. I thought the university was crazy for doing this. For some reason, outright paying a huge sum to get your child in seems better than cheating on tests scores. I guess that sounds hypocritical but the cheating involves lies while the other is just out there.
 
It makes me kind of sad for the kids involved. Were they raised with any sense of personal integrity? Did they know what their parents were doing? Will the schools put them out? Who would want them now...schools or future employers?

It's shocking but not surprising.

One final WTH...Just how average are Laughlin's kids that it took $500.000 to get them unto USC?
 
It makes me kind of sad for the kids involved. Were they raised with any sense of personal integrity? Did they know what their parents were doing? Will the schools put them out? Who would want them now...schools or future employers?

It's shocking but not surprising.

One final WTH...Just how average are Laughlin's kids that it took $500.000 to get them unto USC?
I took the time to read thru a little of the complaint. In one of the conversations involving an exam proctor who was changing answers at the test site, the parents were told that their child would not even know that their test answers were being changed. They discussed how the child would just think they got lucky or would think they were smarter than they thought they were.
 
It makes me kind of sad for the kids involved. Were they raised with any sense of personal integrity? Did they know what their parents were doing? Will the schools put them out? Who would want them now...schools or future employers?

It's shocking but not surprising.

One final WTH...Just how average are Laughlin's kids that it took $500.000 to get them unto USC?

I read an article that said most of the kids had no clue. How embarrassing to think you got in on merit and turns out nope- mommy and daddy bribed you in. I’m sure some of them (like those getting extra test time) had to know though.
 
I took the time to read thru a little of the complaint. In one of the conversations involving an exam proctor who was changing answers at the test site, the parents were told that their child would not even know that their test answers were being changed. They discussed how the child would just think they got lucky or would think they were smarter than they thought they were.

I read an article that said most of the kids had no clue. How embarrassing to think you got in on merit and turns out nope- mommy and daddy bribed you in. I’m sure some of them (like those getting extra test time) had to know though.

Wow! So sad then that adults/parents made such poor unethical choices and now their children will pay some price. Even if it's just an asterisk by their degree.
 

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