Close call in my neighborhood....

[kdonnel]

Stop signs have always been just a suggestion in my neighborhood. A few days ago a kid almost paid the ultimate price.



As you can see, first a truck made a left without stopping, or really slowing. Setting a great example.

Then an SUV comes up the street. Just out of frame on the left there is a legally parked car on the street that is forcing anyone coming from the left into the oncoming lane of traffic. The SUV takes about the distance of two homes to get back onto their side of the road, just outside of the camera view on the right.

I know the SUV was driving legally, as you have to be able to go around obstructions, but how quickly does the law say you must return to your travel lane?

Then the white van comes down the street, again having to move into the opposite lane of traffic to get around the parked car at nearly the exact same time as the kid makes a right, never slowing or stopping at the stop sign. It is hard to tell from the video if the white van is speeding or not. The neighborhood speed limit is 25. I think they might have been going faster than 25. The van was legally in the opposing lane of traffic and anyone coming to the stop sign would have had to yield by remaining at the stop sign. Attorney Ugo Lord talked about just that scenario in a YouTube short.

The kid then made a good call to jump off the scooter and dash off the road as the van skidded to a stop after hitting the scooter.

The neighborhood response to the incident has been surprisingly subdued. Everyone thankful the kid is ok but only one person pointing out the fact that a truck and the kid both just blew the stop sign. The mother did acknowledge in the Facebook thread that her son could have done a better job at handling the stop sign. Based on prior stop sign exchanges I would have expected this post to result in fireworks.

The streets in my neighborhood are narrow by design so it is not unusual for people to ride closer to the middle than to one side or the other to stay far away from the mailboxes and to make it quicker to get around cars and other obstructions in the traffic lane.

I believe Georgia law says electric scooters can be driven on neighborhood streets, with a speed limit under 35, by 15+ year olds with a license and helmet. This kid was under 15, had no license, and no helmet.

How would you lay the fault between the kid and the van?

The poll ran out of options and did not let me add the last Kid 0% Van 100% option but I don't think anyone would or should choose that option anyway. If you would, post why you believe the van is 100% at fault.

I put it at Kid 90%, Van 10% (unless the van driver could show they were not speeding then it would be 100% kid) but would grant the van owners repair costs for the damages caused by the scooter collision.

 

[sam_gordon]

To me, it's 50-50. As I understand it, any vehicle on the road, whether car, van, bicycle, scooter, or skateboard is supposed to follow the rules of the road. So the kid gets responsibility for not stopping at the stop sign.

The van driver is responsible for looking and anticipating what's going to happen, ESPECIALLY when you're not where you're supposed to be (ie: other lane to avoid the parked car). Fortunately the van driver did react in time, but it also APPEARS to be speeding.

 

[gottalovepluto]

50/50. It’s a stop sign, legally you stop. They both blew it.

Fault is ethically to me more like 33/33/33 with your police department sharing a third of the blame for not bothering to enforce the traffic laws in your neighborhood to the point your neighborhood has decided the law doesn’t apply when they don’t want it to. A few days of ticketing and everyone would see the light. Why bother? Your entire neighborhood just saw why not following the law is stupid.

 

[Disneylover99]

Stop signs have always been just a suggestion in my neighborhood.

That right there seems crazy to me.

I live on a corner where there is a thru street that intersects with a 2 way stop.
So many people treat it as a 4 way stop. It’s very rare to see anyone blowing through stop signs here.

I put it at Kid 90%, Van 10%

That sounds about right to me. The van does look like it’s speeding.

 

[kdonnel]

50/50. It’s a stop sign, legally you stop. They both blew it.

The van did not have a stop sign.

 

[kdonnel]

Here is the Ugo Lord video that seems to be somewhat similar.

The van had the legal authority to go into the opposing line of traffic to pass the parked car and the scooter rider had the responsibility to look both ways before making the right.

 

[prairie_girl]

I guess I’m going to be the odd one out but I think 90% of the blame rests on the van. Yes, the kid should have stopped and seems to have taken too wide a turn, but the van should have seen the kid way before they appear to have.

 

[kdonnel]

Fault is ethically to me more like 33/33/33 with your police department sharing a third of the blame for not bothering to enforce the traffic laws in your neighborhood to the point your neighborhood has decided the law doesn’t apply when they don’t want it to. A few days of ticketing and everyone would see the light. Why bother? Your entire neighborhood just saw why not following the law is stupid.

I don't see this being a wake up call.

The 50+ percent of the neighborhood that doesn't stop will continue to not stop.

Their argument in the past is it is a neighborhood, the speed limit is low, they can easily see if there is traffic coming.

 

[kdonnel]

I just noticed I messed up the poll.

I counted down for the kid correctly but messed up the van percentages......

 

[gottalovepluto]

The van did not have a stop sign.

Ooh! Changes the equation. Kid is at fault. If he’d stopped and looked none of that would have happened.

 

[Skippy918]

Kid should have stopped at the stop sign. Van should be driving slower and paying attention.
The kids on e-scooters and e-bikes are driving around dangerously in our neighborhood too. Parents really need to be teaching their kids the rules of the road.

 

[prairie_girl]

Ooh! Changes the equation. Kid is at fault. If he’d stopped and looked none of that would have happened.

The van should be more aware of what is in front of it.

 

[Mommb]

The kid should have stopped at the sign and then kept to the far right after the turn (especially if he knew that cars tend to park on the street).
The van may or may not have been speeding, but it was going too fast for the conditions. The van should have (slowly) moved back to the right as soon as it passed the parked car.

My initial assumption watching the video was that the 2nd vehicle (SUV) was going to hit the 1st vehicle (truck), because the SUV was clearly going faster than the truck. That was another near-miss.

 

[Disneylover99]

The van should be more aware of what is in front of it.

The van was going fast as the kid flew around the corner in the middle of the road in front of the van. Not much the van driver could do at that point other than stop. Which they did.

It does seem like maybe the van driver was a touch slow to react. But it’s hard to tell.

 

[prairie_girl]

The van was going fast as the kid flew around the corner in the middle of the road in front of the van. Not much the van driver could do at that point other than stop. Which they did.

It does seem like maybe the van driver was a touch slow to react. But it’s hard to tell.

The van wasn’t even in the shot by the time the kid was around the corner. The kid should have also been aware of cars around them, for sure, but the van had enough time to react.

 

[Lumpy1106]

My personal rule: YOU are 100% responsible for any accident YOU could have prevented. The kid is lucky; could be dead, so both somehow "took responsibility" enough to avoid this tragedy. BUT...kid should have stopped for the stop sign, van should be going NO MORE than 25 mph and should have been on the right side of the road.

 

[focusondisney]

My thought process…the kid on the scooter could just as easily have been a pedestrian or young child on a bike. The vehicle driver always needs to be aware & anticipate someone else’s actions. If he was looking for a vehicle approaching that intersection, as he should have been, he should have seen the kid coming. If that was a pedestrian stepping out into the road, the vehicle driver would be expected to react & held responsible. You’re driving a thousand pound vehicle, you need to be in control.

 

[monsterkitty]

This actually happened in our neighborhood, and our Ring captured the accident.

In our case, the truck was making a legal pass of cars parked on the street. The boy ran the stop sign and was hit by the truck. The boy was issued the ticket, and the truck driver did not receive a citation.

The parents of course sued and our Ring recording was subpoenaed. The parents lost the case because:

The child was under 16 operating a motorized vehicle. The motor on the scooter makes it a vehicle in our state, meaning the operator must have a license, registration, and insurance. A helmet must also be worn. Because it is a vehicle, the rider must follow the laws of the road. He did not.

In this case, truck driver was going 24 in a 25 but it looked much faster on the camera. He also had a dash cam that recorded the accident, and it showed his speed. The scooter kid failed to stop at the sign and made a wide turn due to his speed. The truck driver did swerve to miss him and hit a parked car. He still hit the boy on the scooter because he did not have enough time to fully react due to the rate of speed of the scooter and the wide turn.

The parents were on the hook for repairs to the driver's truck as well as the car the truck hit.

The parents also went after the people who had parked their cars on the street. They lost that as well.

 

[kdonnel]

This actually happened in our neighborhood, and our Ring captured the accident.

In our case, the truck was making a legal pass of cars parked on the street. The boy ran the stop sign and was hit by the truck. The boy was issued the ticket, and the truck driver did not receive a citation.

The parents of course sued and our Ring recording was subpoenaed. The parents lost the case because:

The child was under 16 operating a motorized vehicle. The motor on the scooter makes it a vehicle in our state, meaning the operator must have a license, registration, and insurance. A helmet must also be worn. Because it is a vehicle, the rider must follow the laws of the road. He did not.

In this case, truck driver was going 24 in a 25 but it looked much faster on the camera. He also had a dash cam that recorded the accident, and it showed his speed. The scooter kid failed to stop at the sign and made a wide turn due to his speed. The truck driver did swerve to miss him and hit a parked car. He still hit the boy on the scooter because he did not have enough time to fully react due to the rate of speed of the scooter and the wide turn.

The parents were on the hook for repairs to the driver's truck as well as the car the truck hit.

The parents also went after the people who had parked their cars on the street. They lost that as well.

Wow, that sounds remarkably similar, minus the kid actually getting hit.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The van did not have a stop sign.

Oh, that makes a difference. I changed my vote.

Kid should have stopped at the stop sign. Van should be driving slower and paying attention.
The kids on e-scooters and e-bikes are driving around dangerously in our neighborhood too. Parents really need to be teaching their kids the rules of the road.

Yeah, the kid should have stopped. I feel, like others, the van seemed to be traveling too fast for being in a neighborhood, so it still gets some of the blame.