Church says girl's communion not valid

[septbride2002]

I live right outside of Boston so I, too, know quite well about the abuse scandal. A priest in our Church who baptized myself and my DH was accused. But the sins of a few evil men (which the Church is now trying to rectify) will not sway my faith in my Church.

I just have to comment on this. No, this should not sway your faith in the Church. It should however make you question the faith on the men that run your Church. I didn't follow Boston all that closely but the truth in St. Louis was hidden by more then just Priest, but bishops, and Arch Bishops, possibly even Cardinals. The organization was more worried about protecting their brotherhood then they were the people of their church.

~Amanda

 

[septbride2002]

The priest isn't doing magic tricks up there! He's just doing God's work!

And do you believe that God is up there saying - oh no we can't substitute one bread for another? If we are truly doing God's work then I don't think it would matter. This is just my honest opinion.

I was not implying that the priest is doing magic tricks.

~Amanda

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by septbride2002
I just have to comment on this. No, this should not sway your faith in the Church. It should however make you question the faith on the men that run your Church. I didn't follow Boston all that closely but the truth in St. Louis was hidden by more then just Priest, but bishops, and Arch Bishops, possibly even Cardinals. The organization was more worried about protecting their brotherhood then they were the people of their church.

~Amanda

The church is made up of people. People screw up. I have never been convinced that because some people in the church screwed up means the entire church should be called into question.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

If we are truly doing God's work then I don't think it would matter.

Ahh...but Catholics believe that it DOES matter or the bread COULD be made of anything.

So, other denominations feel the bread/wine can be substituted......Catholics don't believe that. The bread was made a certain way back in the day of Christ.....it is what He used at the last supper. It makes a difference to us.

LisaF had a great post, BTW.

 

[phillybeth]

Originally posted by tonyswife
I have no idea, LOL. This is kind of what I was getting at. The wheat thing seems like such a non-issue in the face of the RCCs other transgressions.

Then what exactly did you mean by 'other transgressions'? Because that implies that you think that the no wheat= no eucharist is a transgression. Or were you referring to other Catholic beliefs as transgressions?

 

[tonyswife]

Ok, for Catholics, WHY must the wafer have wheat in it? I understand your belief is that it actually turns into the body of Christ, but WHY the wheat thing? I guess I don't understand....if God can turn wheat into His body, why can't He turn rice into His body? I'm not "bashing" Catholics, I am trying to understand from where this particular piece of doctrine comes from.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by WDWHound
We all worship the same God. Its hsould be important to all Christains how other Christians worship God. We are Christians 1st, and Catholic, Methodist, baptists or whatever second. Note that the pope has not problem stating that protestants do no experience the full Christian experience and I respect him for doing so. Because I like to look at all denominations just one large community of faith, I see less issue with critical discussion about my mine or any other denomination. What anyone does in the name of Christ reflects on all Christians. I don't think we will ever agree (I 'm not sure we should even try), but I do feel we need to be able to talk about things like this.

I really am comuncated badly here. I am not trying to criticize your faith or the Catholic church. I am trying to explain why you might be seeing some emotions you did not expect in this thread and to share a little about what I beleive. I stated in my first post that I felt like the couples best option might be to leave the curch rather than to try and change it and that the church was well within it's rights to deny them communion. I also feel bound when I say something like that to say that I disagree with Catholic tradition on this point because it is so counter to the very core of my faith. That does not mean that i don't respect your beleifs nor am I trying to change them.

Again, I appologize. I seem to be only succeeding in making you angry and that was never my intent.

Well yes, I have been angry, and while I appreciate your apology, but I think it's important for all of us Christians to be more tolerant of the various ways we choose to worship God. A few weeks ago I watched a Methodist argue with a Presbyterian about some point of faith and I just thought it was so silly. If those 2 can't get along how will Christians ever find peace with non-Christians?

Do you understand that I have major problems with Protestantism? But I don't want to talk about that, because just because it's not for me doesn't mean that I'm not thrilled for you and for my sister.

 

[septbride2002]

The church is made up of people. People screw up. I have never been convinced that because some people in the church screwed up means the entire church should be called into question.

I'm not saying the Church should be called into question - the MEN that run the Church, that decide the laws, that teach the religion should be called into question.

Some people - try a lot of people. One wayward priest gets under the radar - fine. That is not however what happened. And with that I am done.

~Amanda

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by tonyswife
Ok, for Catholics, WHY must the wafer have wheat in it? I understand your belief is that it actually turns into the body of Christ, but WHY the wheat thing? I guess I don't understand....if God can turn wheat into His body, why can't He turn rice into His body? I'm not "bashing" Catholics, I am trying to understand from where this particular piece of doctrine comes from.

No idea. Why do Protestants use grape juice instead of wine. The Bible says wine.

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by phillybeth
Then what exactly did you mean by 'other transgressions'? Because that implies that you think that the no wheat= no eucharist is a transgression. Or were you referring to other Catholic beliefs as transgressions?

By "other" transgressions, I mean, for example, allowing pedophiles to be moved from parish to parish in secret, still allowing them to give communion and hear confession. Let me add, this is not Catholic "bashing" I'm merely trying to point out that some "sins" seem like a bigger deal than others to the Hierarchy, but to me, at least, not using wheat is so petty compared to hiding pedophiles.

 

[phillybeth]

Originally posted by tonyswife
Ok, for Catholics, WHY must the wafer have wheat in it? I understand your belief is that it actually turns into the body of Christ, but WHY the wheat thing? I guess I don't understand....if God can turn wheat into His body, why can't He turn rice into His body? I'm not "bashing" Catholics, I am trying to understand from where this particular piece of doctrine comes from.

Because if it does not contain wheat it is not bread for consecration. According to the Catholic Church, Jesus did not hold up a bowl of rice, or tofu, or chicken, or fish. He held up a loaf of bread and it was miraculously changed into his body, his actual flesh. Therefore the communion host must contain wheat, in however small a quantity.

edited to add: Since Good Friday was actually the first night of Passover, the bread that Jesus used was unleavened in accordance with Jewish tradition. That is why the Catholic Church does not use Wonder Bread, challah, or any other sort of bread that has been leavened with yeast.

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by auntpolly
No idea. Why do Protestants use grape juice instead of wine. The Bible says wine.

Well, ask a Protestant, I don't believe in the Bible at all. But, don't you think you should know why this rule exists, if you're going to follow it? This is not "bashing" it's an honest question.

 

[auntpolly]

I'm starting to really feel how bad Jews and other non-Christians must feel. If Christians think they can be so judgemental about each other's decisions about how to worship God, I can't imagine what it must be for non-Christians!

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by auntpolly
No idea. Why do Protestants use grape juice instead of wine. The Bible says wine.

Actually, I can answer that. Wine in Jesus' time was not necessarily alcholic. Some of it was simply grape juice. We don;t know which Jesus used as both the the version which contained alchohol and the version that didn't were called "wine" back then. Our church uses grape juice out of respect for those who will not counsume alchohol, but to be honest, I prefer using wine (by todays definition).

 

[Miss Jasmine]

auntpolly, please note that tonyswife says she doesn't even believe in the bible and I think mentioned was agnostic (sorry if I got you wrong), so therefor not a Christian.

Also, I think people are curious about other people's faiths and ask questions which may seem rude to you, but really aren't. They are just looking for some answers.

 

[phillybeth]

Originally posted by auntpolly
No idea. Why do Protestants use grape juice instead of wine. The Bible says wine.

Two reasons:

1- Prohibition and the Temperance Movement
2. A bishop (Lutheran I believe) by the name of Welsh. Yes, THAT Welsh. Switching to grape juice (which has to be treated with heat or chemicals to keep it from fermenting into wine naturally) made his family a lot of money.

 

[tonyswife]

Okie dokie, I'm bowing out of this thread. My intent was to try and find out why the wheat must be resent in the bread. Some people have a better idea than others and I was jut curious as to why this is uch a big deal. I'm not "bashing" anyone. M ost of my family is still Catholic, some of them practice, some of them don't. It's all good with me. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[mom22belles]

a question for current practising Catholics. In regards to why the girl didn't just drink the wine? Does the preist not break a small piece of the host and place it in the wine?

It has been many years since I attended mass so my memory could be clouded, but I remember this happening.
My point is if this happens then in fact there would be wheat in the wine (tiny amount) and therefore the girl couldn't have the wine.

Nancy

 

[The Mystery Machine]

You are correct. The chalice could be tainted and therefore they did not risk it. If my kid had celiac I wouldn't risk it either...in fact I don't know what I would do..

 

[auntpolly]

I'm sorry I'm sounding testy. But I meant it -- I don't know why it's wheat. My point was that lots of churches make arbitrary judgements about things.

I thought you weren't supposed to mess around with the word of God. "It's not necessary now" to have wine. Says who? The Bible says wine.

I'm just trying to show that all faiths make their own decisions about things about how to worship. I really didn't intend to sound so snippy. But I'm very serious about this. I don't understand a non-Catholic deciding something we do is wrong!