Christians and Gays, Opinions please

[The Mystery Machine]

I know this is a heated topic but I'd like to know how a person can accept some passages from the bible and not all.

Well for starters there are different faiths based on the Bible. I would say that even though they all believe in Jesus, each faith will take issue with another. So right there, you are at odds. You don't even have to go to the "bible verses" route.

 

[jimmiej]

?

This question is not for you specifically Jimmie... If Jesus came to free Jews from the law then way did G-d tell the Jews that his covenant was eternal? Why did he tell them it ws to last for all time? was his mistake? Did he change his mind
I know that the Catholic Church is now coming around and recognizing that Jews have their own eternal covenant with G-d,but I don't think many Protestants have come around to this

I love the term *freed from the law* ,like it is a horrible burden

I have seen differing viewpoints on the Jewish covenant. I haven't studied it enough to really see what the scripture says.

"Freed from the law" means it's impossible to follow 100%. The grace of God fulfills what the law couldn't do, make us clean and holy before God.

Scripture doesn't offend me, people who expect me to live by their scriptures offend me. And that includes the public laws that are supposed to represent all of us.

That's why we live in a democracy!

 

[JennyMominRI]

I have seen differing viewpoints on the Jewish covenant. I haven't studied it enough to really see what the scripture says.

"Freed from the law" means it's impossible to follow 100%. The grace of God fulfills what the law couldn't do, make us clean and holy before God.

The laws are not about clean and unclean..Noone was expected to keep ALL of the laws in the first place..Some were for Priest,some for women,some were for Temples,some were for slave owners,etc.etc.
Thanks for your input on this

 

[Cindyluwho]

The Bible says that neither homosexuals nor drunkards will get to heaven. The day I see the same people protesting gays also protesting at the local bar is the day I won't believe they're hypocrites.

"Neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6: 6-9)

Very good point KimWDW! Thank you for the scripture.

 

[Puffy2]

The rant against homosexuals is used to incite the masses....incite them to vote, incite them to fill the collection plates, and help them feel superior to someone else.

If the same rant was against the divorced, politicans wouldn't get elected, preacher's funds would dry up and the masses wouldn't have a scape goat - they would be the great-unwashed themselves.

Sad, but a fact of life. There really isn't any point in debating it - the majority of the masses aren't intelligent enough to follow the logic.

 

[JoyG]

You were never held to them anyway..Jewish Law is for Jews..Kashrut applies only to Jews

That got me thinking...if Jesus had never come, and if only the Old Testament existed, not the New Testament...I'd be Jewish. Obviously not by birth...but I'd convert. I'd still want to worship the One True God. The God of Noah and Abraham and Moses. So those laws would have applied to me if Jesus hadn't established the New Covenent.

 

[Cindyluwho]

Well for starters there are different faiths based on the Bible. I would say that even though they all believe in Jesus, each faith will take issue with another. So right there, you are at odds. You don't even have to go to the "bible verses" route.

Sadly, after reading some of the responses, I'm believing that this is true. I thought this thread would be a good way to learn how Christians truly deal with this but it seems that I was off base. Sorry for all the bad feelings.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That got me thinking...if Jesus had never come, and if only the Old Testament existed, not the New Testament...I'd be Jewish. Obviously not by birth...but I'd convert. I'd still want to worship the One True God. The God of Noah and Abraham and Moses. So those laws would have applied to me if Jesus hadn't established the New Covenent.

Or you would be a Muslim..A much larger Abrahaic religion than Judaism,which really is a minor religion with a very small amount of adherents worldwide.
Just I minor point,but it would be the *Old Testament* that would be around,but the Tanakh...And I think people would be prety shocked by the differences between the OT and the Tanakh

 

[CheshireVal]

Romans 3:20

Sorry if Scripture offends you.

I am a Christian; scripture doesn't offend me.

However, narrow-minded interpretations of scripture do. And, actually, not even narrow-minded interpretations really offend me. People who insist that *their* interpretations are the only correct ones offend me more than anything.

 

[Buckalew11]

That got me thinking...if Jesus had never come, and if only the Old Testament existed, not the New Testament...I'd be Jewish. Obviously not by birth...but I'd convert. I'd still want to worship the One True God. The God of Noah and Abraham and Moses. So those laws would have applied to me if Jesus hadn't established the New Covenent.

me too. I think JennyinRI will understand that because she herself was a Catholic and is converting to Judisiam. There is a definitely a connection to the two faiths that as a Christian, you feel. (Although I hate to use the word "feel" because I think if you do too much feeling when it comes to your beliefs you'll get into trouble.)

I don't think this thread causes hard feelings. Well, except when it was said
the majority of the "masses aren't intelligent enough to follow the logic". I suppose Christians with different viewpoints are "the masses"? Oh well. We all have our opinions.

 

[Buckalew11]

Or you would be a Muslim..A much larger Abrahaic religion than Judaism,which really is a minor religion with a very small amount of adherents worldwide.
Just I minor point,but it would be the *Old Testament* that would be around,but the Tanakh...And I think people would be prety shocked by the differences between the OT and the Tanakh

Well, Joy, maybe not. But I doubt I'd choose to be a Muslim.

 

[chell]

Sorry that I haven't read every post here yet. But while my eyes are open I wanted to say that I am a Christian and I am very much FOR gays and lesbians. The Bible says lots of things. I still want to find one person living on this planet right now who has NEVER done anything against the Bible. Even if you try your best to never sin you do because you are human.

I just wish people would get over it and get over judging people for doing things they don't do. Oh yeah sit there and tell me that I'm going to burn in hell for going out to clubs to listen to my favorite bands. Do similar things to others who don't follow your lifestyle. Funny thing is people who don't follow your lifestyle don't usually judge you so heavily.

NO, the "you" above isn't to anyone here but to people in my life. I am SO thankful that I know God and Jesus in my heart and that I don't have to let man tell me what is right or wrong.

See how quickly one of the loud profession Christians come to your aide when you need it. I can almost guarantee you hands down that it will be a non-Christian or at least a non-traditional Christian who is there to lay in the ditches with you and help pull you out.

I really do think it is about time the church gets off their little pedestal and decides to start helping people instead of pushing them away. I thought we were here to help one another. Maybe I ended up on the wrong planet.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

Just 10 rules and ignore the rest?

So if I'm stopped for speeding, I can tell him (or her), "Sorry officer that rule is not in the top 10 and I'm not dealing with it" ??

Yes, you can. Now you get an angel face.


I'd just like to ask if anyone thinks being gay is a choice?

Should gay people adopt (and what about single people)?

Are Christians responsible for gay bashing (regardless of their stance on tolerance)?

Do all Christians consider it a sin (and is Catholicism sad)?

Is it mean or nice to hand out Jesus-flyers (and what about Presidential campaigns?)

Should I, MouseWorshipin read the bible (and No, the Baptists don't have 17 Ten Commandments)

Exacly what is King James' sexuality? (and quote your sources, please.)

Will Sylvester go to hell? (not that he cares...)

What is wrong with the song, "Imagine?"

And what are your thoughts on Creation (real or made up?) vs. Evolution (apes or aligators?)

And should we take comparative religions, or just educate ourselves on the DIS (provide links, please)

 

[JoyG]

Or you would be a Muslim..A much larger Abrahaic religion than Judaism,which really is a minor religion with a very small amount of adherents worldwide.
Just I minor point,but it would be the *Old Testament* that would be around,but the Tanakh...And I think people would be prety shocked by the differences between the OT and the Tanakh

I wouldn't be Muslim. It's not about how large the religion is for me.

 

[JoyG]

Yes, you can. Now you get an angel face.


I'd just like to ask if anyone thinks being gay is a choice?

Should gay people adopt (and what about single people)?

Are Christians responsible for gay bashing (regardless of their stance on tolerance)?

Do all Christians consider it a sin (and is Catholicism sad)?

Is it mean or nice to hand out Jesus-flyers (and what about Presidential campaigns?)

Should I, MouseWorshipin read the bible (and No, the Baptists don't have 17 Ten Commandments)

Exacly what is King James' sexuality? (and quote your sources, please.)

Will Sylvester go to hell? (not that he cares...)

What is wrong with the song, "Imagine?"

And what are your thoughts on Creation (real or made up?) vs. Evolution (apes or aligators?)

And should we take comparative religions, or just educate ourselves on the DIS (provide links, please)

Mouse you ask alot of questions!

 

[jimmiej]

I am a Christian; scripture doesn't offend me.

However, narrow-minded interpretations of scripture do. And, actually, not even narrow-minded interpretations really offend me. People who insist that *their* interpretations are the only correct ones offend me more than anything.

So what does this scripture mean?

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

I don't think my interpretation offends you. This scripture offends you. No one, including me, likes to be confronted with our faults.

Hebrews 4:11-13

12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I wouldn't be Muslim. It's not about how large the religion is for me.

I didn't mean you would be Muslim because it is a large religion per se..Just that,More than likely, in a world with no Christianity, Islam would be the major prostletizing religion. You would be far more likely to have experienced Islamic outreaching then Jewish ones,as Judaism does not seek converts.. I find Islam to have more similarities to Judaism,than Christianity has similaritiesto Judaism..I feel that while ,yes,,Islam has major problems right now,on a whole it's not an evil religion..All 3 major world religions have gone through periods of serious strife and even big time persections of other religions and group..That includes Judaism,which wasn't exactly the most peaceful religion in ancient times

But once again I've gone way OT from the OP

 

[CheshireVal]

So what does this scripture mean?

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

I don't think my interpretation offends you. This scripture offends you. No one, including me, likes to be confronted with our faults.

[/B]

I'm trying to figure out why I'd be offended by that scripture, or how you've come to the conclusion that I *am* offended by that scripture, since you don't know anything about me. How exactly is that scripture confronting me with my faults? If I had a Bible in front of me, I'd find the verse so that I could see the context in which is was written. Without that, I can't really discuss it intelligently. However, I can tell you that what offends me is not the verse. What offends me is the previously stated idea that "I welcome homosexuals into my church with open arms so that they can see what true sinners they are." That's the most grossly condescending and judgmental thing I've heard in a long time.

I also think the problem here, as usual with these kinds of debates, is the varied interpretations of what constitutes a sin.

Ultimately, that's not for either of us to say. We'll all find out in the end.

 

[Buckalew11]

I didn't mean you would be Muslim because it is a large religion per se..Just that,More than likely, in a world with no Christianity, Islam would be the major prostletizing religion. You would be far more likely to have experienced Islamic outreaching then Jewish ones,as Judaism does not seek converts.. I find Islam to have more similarities to Judaism,than Christianity has similaritiesto Judaism..I feel that while ,yes,,Islam has major problems right now,on a whole it's not an evil religion..All 3 major world religions have gone through periods of serious strife and even big time persections of other religions and group..That includes Judaism,which wasn't exactly the most peaceful religion in ancient times

But once again I've gone way OT from the OP

Without Christianity and the belief that the Messiah has already come, I'd be Jewish (convert). Not Muslim.

Islam is the #1 growing religion in the world today. You could have chose to convert to Islam but you chose Judaism . There was a reason and I think your reasons are much the same as why I say I would convert to Judasim.


Mouseworshippin, are you saying we're been here, done that?? I ask you...are we having fun yet???

 

[jimmiej]

What offends me is the previously stated idea that "I welcome homosexuals into my church with open arms so that they can see what true sinners they are." That's the most grossly condescending and judgmental thing I've heard in a long time.

Here's what I said:

I can only speak for my church, but we spend a lot of time and A LOT of money feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. We spend zero time discussing homosexuals. They're welcome at our church like anyone else. But beware! Jesus changes lives! The closer we get to Him, the more our own sinful nature is exposed...

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Like you said, I don't know you and you don't know me. Don't put words in my mouth.

Now, when you find your Bible, check out the context of that verse and tell me what you think it means.