Christians and Gays, Opinions please

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I can only speak for my church, but we spend a lot of time and A LOT of money feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. We spend zero time discussing homosexuals. They're welcome at our church like anyone else. But beware! Jesus changes lives! The closer we get to Him, the more our own sinful nature is exposed...

Same with my church! Well said.

 

[CheshireVal]

I think a lot of people choose to interpret the Bible literally when it supports their own personal cause/prejudice.

However, I'd like to know how many of those people (not Jews) refuse to eat any shellfish. After all, the Bible says we shouldn't.

 

[CheshireVal]

I can only speak for my church, but we spend a lot of time and A LOT of money feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. We spend zero time discussing homosexuals. They're welcome at our church like anyone else. But beware! Jesus changes lives! The closer we get to Him, the more our own sinful nature is exposed...

Condescending attitudes like that are precisely the reason I stopped attending church years ago.

 

[Buckalew11]

Like Joy, I go to a church that doesn't have female ministers and deacons. I have nothing against churches who do have them. But to say we pick and chose isn't right. Because I think I'd not choose that verse if I was picking and choosing. However, because I believe it to be true and because I can do many, many other jobs within my church, I choose to believe it is in there for a reason. I think to say Christians pick and chose is not so true.

No shellfish for me.

But isn't that OT law? I know the NT says that it we are allowed to eat anything, right? It is more about what comes out of our mouths than what goes in it.

 

[C.Ann]

I guess I would call myself a "Christian" because I walked away from the Catholic religion many years ago.. But you know what? There is a lot of information in the Bible that is contradictory, so I base my life on some pretty simple rules: The Ten Commandments..

So far it's worked out pretty well and I don't have to deal with all of the various (and sometimes ridiculous) interpretations of Bible verses.. Most anything can be twisted in favor of - or against - when taken out of context and delivered with a personal spin..

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I guess I would call myself a "Christian" because I walked away from the Catholic religion many years ago.. But you know what? There is a lot of information in the Bible that is contradictory, so I base my life on some pretty simple rules: The Ten Commandments..

So far it's worked out pretty well and I don't have to deal with all of the various (and sometimes ridiculous) interpretations of Bible verses.. Most anything can be twisted in favor of - or against - when taken out of context and delivered with a personal spin..

Just 10 rules and ignore the rest?

So if I'm stopped for speeding, I can tell him (or her), "Sorry officer that rule is not in the top 10 and I'm not dealing with it" ??

 

[C.Ann]

Just 10 rules and ignore the rest?

So if I'm stopped for speeding, I can tell him (or her), "Sorry officer that rule is not in the top 10 and I'm not dealing with it" ??

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Nice try, but being a law-abiding citizen has nothing to do with ones religion.. Even people with NO religion are aware that it's not a good idea to go around breaking the law.. LOL

 

[JoyG]

I agree that there are a lot of hypocrites who cherry pick what they are against out of the Bible. The Bible says that neither homosexuals nor drunkards will get to heaven. The day I see the same people protesting gays also protesting at the local bar is the day I won't believe they're hypocrites.

"Neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6: 6-9)

There are many, many christians who witness to people outside of bars and even inside of bars. As I mentioned in my other post, its not newsworthy and also it's not done for public acclaim.

There is also a very active prison ministry but you don't hear too much about that either.

I was watching a tv show by two people who actively witness to others and share their faith (Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort) and you never know where these two will show up next . The last show I watched was them in a Casino witnessing and I know I've seen them in the crowd at heavy metal concerts.

One more thing I wanted to mention is the Bible says to speak the truth with love. So I am not comfortable with the word "protesting" unless we're talking about nonviolent peaceful protests ala MLK Jr.

If you see an angry, ugly crowd of people shouting hurtful remarks in with their views about gay people then they are coming from an unbiblical place. We must choose to share our beliefs in a loving way.

Joy

 

[JoyG]

I think a lot of people choose to interpret the Bible literally when it supports their own personal cause/prejudice.

However, I'd like to know how many of those people (not Jews) refuse to eat any shellfish. After all, the Bible says we shouldn't.

The shellfish rule falls under Old Testament law. Christians recognize that when Jesus came we were released from the requirements of following Jewish dietary laws.

 

[CheshireVal]

The shellfish rule falls under Old Testament law. Christians recognize that when Jesus came we were released from the requirements of following Jewish dietary laws.

Oh, really? Where does it say that?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

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Nice try, but being a law-abiding citizen has nothing to do with ones religion.. Even people with NO religion are aware that it's not a good idea to go around breaking the law.. LOL

So why even bother with God's "top ten" ? Do His rules count or not?

Our parents, who love us, gave us rules for our benefit, so does God.

 

[JoyG]

Oh, really? Where does it say that?

Romans Chapter 14. The entire chapter discusses this theme.

"As one who is in Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. "


It goes on to say, "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."


This chapter is interpreted as "if you feel convicted or lead by the Holy Spirit not to eat shellfish, then it is not for you." I personally feel convicted not to drink alcohol. Not all christians feel the same way, and as long as they do not get drunk (which is a sin) then they have the freedom under Romans chapter 14. The bible says "everything is permissable, but not everything is profitable"

 

[CheshireVal]

Romans Chapter 14. The entire chapter discusses this theme.

"As one who is in Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. "


It goes on to say, "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."


This chapter is interpreted as "if you feel convicted or lead by the Holy Spirit not to eat shellfish, then it is not for you." I personally feel convicted not to drink alcohol. Not all christians feel the same way, and as long as they do not get drunk (which is a sin) then they have the freedom under Romans chapter 14. The bible says "everything is permissable, but not everything is profitable"

Interpreted by.... ?

To me, that is just another example of interpreting the Bible any which way you choose as long as it supports what *you* want it to.

If everything is permissible, then wouldn't that apply to homosexuality, too?

 

[Buckalew11]

Not when we're talking food. (ie. everything permissible)

Colossians 2:16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (KJV)

 

[JoyG]

Interpreted by.... ?

To me, that is just another example of interpreting the Bible any which way you choose as long as it supports what *you* want it to.

If everything is permissible, then wouldn't that apply to homosexuality, too?

If you try to apply this chapter to homosexuality you'd be taking it out of context. This chapter was mostly about food and worship styles of the early christians. The early church was divided on if they had to still follow jewish laws including dietary restrictions after Christ came.

One needs to study the scriptures to understand the context of them.

 

[jimmiej]

Condescending attitudes like that are precisely the reason I stopped attending church years ago.

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Sorry if Scripture offends you.

Oh, really? Where does it say that?

New Testament Christians (since Jesus) are under grace, not the law. Jesus Himself broke the Mosaic law (gathering food on the Sabbath). Jesus came to free us from the law.

Luke 22:19-20

19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Hebrews 9

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[JennyMominRI]

The shellfish rule falls under Old Testament law. Christians recognize that when Jesus came we were released from the requirements of following Jewish dietary laws.

You were never held to them anyway..Jewish Law is for Jews..Kashrut applies only to Jews

 

[JennyMominRI]

?

Romans 3:20

New Testament Christians (since Jesus) are under grace, not the law. Jesus Himself broke the Mosaic law (gathering food on the Sabbath). Jesus came to free us from the law.


.

This question is not for you specifically Jimmie... If Jesus came to free Jews from the law then way did G-d tell the Jews that his covenant was eternal? Why did he tell them it ws to last for all time? was his mistake? Did he change his mind
I know that the Catholic Church is now coming around and recognizing that Jews have their own eternal covenant with G-d,but I don't think many Protestants have come around to this

I love the term *freed from the law* ,like it is a horrible burden

 

[C.Ann]

So why even bother with God's "top ten" ? Do His rules count or not?

Our parents, who love us, gave us rules for our benefit, so does God.

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As far as I'm concerned, it's the "condensed" version of the Bible - without all the personal spins that many see fit to place on His rules.. They are simple and straight forward - no personal interpretations and no taking verses out of context..

It works for me - sorry you don't feel the same.. Your personal interpretations are yours - not mine..

 

[lw49033]

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Sorry if Scripture offends you.

Scripture doesn't offend me, people who expect me to live by their scriptures offend me. And that includes the public laws that are supposed to represent all of us.