Chivalry please-a vent

[maxiesmom]

good grief... whatever happened to common sense?! A woman standing, holding a child is a safety hazard, not only to themselves, but those around them. Don't know about you, but I don't want someone and their kid falling on me...so I'd give up my seat. I grew up in England and not got used to the north american bussing - over there, 4 or 5 people are allowed to stand in the aisle - if that happens, they won't pick up any more people.

And I don't care what anyone says...it's a sad, sad world where people are more concerned about their own rights - oh, not serious Human Rights issues, like the right to vote....but a "I was here first!" mentality. To the point that 99% of people would sit and watch a woman fall over with a child in their arms before getting off their butts.

I guess to me some of this has to do with personal responsibility. The first people to look out for preagnant women/children/the elderly should be their families. If they don't think it is important for those in their families to have a seat, why is that my problem? Again, I want to say that when I can I most certainly do offer those people a seat. But why do they not have any responsiblity for their own well being? Why is their family not taking care of them?

The last time I took my mom to Disney I was worried about her standing on busses. I looked into renting a car, even though I have no sense of direction, and I was prepared to drive to the parks should the need arise. As it happened, mom was fine. But it was my responsibility to see that she was! It was not the responsibilty of a bus full of strangers to make sure she was ok.

 

[OandA]

i don't think it was ever about what was or wasn't legal.

it's about what society dictates that you should or shouldn't do -- what's rude and what isn't, etc.

beyond that, i'm not sure how your post really responds to mine -- care to explain? if not, no big deal.

Yes. You said people had the right to call people out for not having the same moral beliefs as you do. Everyone has a different set of morals, so the only morals that should be brought into question are ones governed by law. Some people open doors, some give the homeless loose change, and some live solely on what they need and not frills like vacations. Just because you just open doors doesn't mean someone who gives their change to others can call you out for having no morals or not acting the way they think you should, and so on.

 

[Frankiesmom]

This is a "Good" topic? Geesh, I'd love to see what a "bad" topic is to you.

That's it I'm done-not worth the points for what I'd like to say...

 

[kadesha]

That's great that you would do that. Where do you stop though? Someone will always need everything you have more than you. I'm sure someone could use your paycheck more than you, or your house, or your kids toys. Are you going to go give all of those away?

How ridiculous. We're talking about a seat on a bus not my paycheck. It's not the same thing at all. Say whatever you need to justify not giving a seat to someone who needs it more if that makes you feel better. I'm doing what I think is right and don't care what you do. I'm so glad that I've encountered so many nice people who have given seats to my children, now since my kids are bigger I'm paying that back.

 

[DJ Disney Kid]

The way I see it, you are going to WDW knowing that this is the case, so if you are going to be upset about it, then don't go to WDW with kids. I think its rude that people with kids feel that they deserve a seat and that there situation makes them more deserving than me. I don't have kids and don't want kids, so why should I be expected to stand because YOU chose to have kids? Gimme a break...

 

[maxiesmom]

no, that's right. she could still be standing at that bus stop. is that better?

it's a minor inconvenience for someone who can stand (even if they're tired), compared to the larger inconvenience for the person with the sleeping child.

Yes I think it would be better for a parent to wait for a bus and be able to sit than to get on a full bus holding a child. Much better.

You could take this argument back farther then. Maybe the parent with the child shouldn't wait till the child was exhausted to leave the parks? Or maybe the parent that stays until their child is to tired to stand should rent a car or grab a cab? There are other choices than boarding a full bus.

 

[CoachBagFanatic]

Wow, this thread has taken a turn I truly did not expect it to. All I can say is at least this was the only complaint that the OP had. I just realized from her post that she had three small kids. The only thing that I can say is I would have waited to take the next bus.

 

[fla4fun]

I think this is one of those topics where we all are going to have to agree to disagree. There is no perfect answer that will work in every situation - because the people in that given situation will be totally different every time.

Do I give up my seat? Sometimes. I'm not perfect. Sometimes I've waited for that second bus just to get a seat, especially if I'm traveling with my mom who can't stand on a moving bus because of balance issues. Sometimes my back acts up, and standing is pure agony. Sometimes I'm doing fine, and someone else is doing not so fine - so I give up the seat. I try not to judge those who have seats or those who don't - it's just not really any of my business.

I do wish it was easier to see through the bus windows sometimes, so you could see whether they were to the standing point prior to boarding the bus. Some of the newer buses don't seem to have as many seats as the older buses (or maybe I'm just not as good at judging by the length of the line anymore). I've been surprised more than once by no empty seats when it seemed like there should have been.

 

[Howdy Doodat]

People keep making the argument that it's more dangerous for her to be standing with a sleeping child on a moving vehicle, so I would think yes, standing at a bus stop is better.

i repeat, it's a minor inconvenience for someone who can stand (even if they're tired), compared to the larger inconvenience for the person with the sleeping child.

what's the best scenario:

1) person A is holding a sleeping child on bus #1, while able-bodied person B sits. person B gives up his/her seat for person A, and they both get back to their hotel on bus #1; or

2) person A is holding a sleeping child, waiting for a bus to go back to the hotel. person B is waiting for the same bus. bus #1 comes along, and person A, seeing that the bus is likely to be crowded, decides not to ride, while person B gets on and arrives back at the hotel on bus #1. some time later (5 minutes? 15 minutes?), bus #2 arrives, person A and child get on, and arrive back at the hotel.


which is better? well, i suppose it depends on whether you're person A or person B, right? person A prefers the first scenario, since he or she gets back to the hotel faster. person B prefers the second scenario, since he or she gets to sit the whole way. but if you're looking at it from afar, without knowing whether you're going to be person A or person B, i think the greater good is served by the first scenario.

the inconvenience to person A of waiting however long it is for the next bus to come while holding the sleeping child, or worse, the possibility of something happening to person A or the child (or someone else) because they were standing on the bus is worse than the inconvenience for person B. does person B have the right to keep his or her seat? yes, of course. does that make it the right thing to do? nope.

 

[pepperw23]

My DH always gives his seat up on the bus and monorail. One night we were coming back from DHS to the Poly and we sat down at the back of the bus when a Family, a dad who had the folded up stroller, a Mom was holding a child. We saw them come on so I put dd in my lap and DH stood up to open up 2 seats for them.

So the Dad proceeds to sit down and then leans the stroller against the second empty seat. He graciously takes the child from his wife so now she can stand without the child in her arms

She was glaring at him like she was going to kill him once they were out of the public eye. When we got off at the Poly she thanked DH and then apologized for her husband being so rude. Yes, she said it out loud

I would of loved to be a fly on the wall in their room!

Was this by chance in Aug of last year? We had a very similar thing happen to us. My Dad stood to give his seat to a lady and child and the DH sat there!!!

 

[merryweather20]

Okay, your theory and standpoint is sound to a point. But I think you're kinda reaching. Yes, the OP put her children in this position. A mother who is on plane that is plummeting to earth about to crash put her children on that plane. Does that make her bad too? I mean this could go on and on.

To me its simple. You ride public transportation, yes you have to take the bad with the good. But a little common courtesy always goes a long way. I really think that is all the OP and many more of us were saying

We can debate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, personal responsiblity and equal rights for men and women all day long. But in the end, I always just feel like don't look too deeply at the simple things of life, just do something nice and helpful and who knows, it might come back to you later!


And be careful, not ever taking your kids on public transportation sometimes might open you up to criticisims that you care only about them and not the environment! A philosophy professor could probably get a whole semester
s worth of lectures on this thread.

Not the same situation at all. Her choice was a safe situation, where she waited for the next bus, or a dangerous one where she stood. She made the choice knowing full well that it could be dangerous. Not at all similar to a freak plane crash.

I found it funny, that so many people advocating manners, and common courtesy were also posting with questionable vocabularies and advocating violence.

The point of manners is to make those around you feel comfortable. Manners are not a license by which to demand things. So yes someone with manners would give up their seat if the situation warranted it, but they would never expect (and certainly not demand) someone to give up a seat, and they would never judge those around them who did not.

I was surprised that so many people extended the standard to children, I don't think I ever sat on a bus when I went to Disney as a child (except on the loop bus once we were back at Fort Wilderness). Kids were expected to tough it out.

As my RA got worse and worse and I graduated from a cane to a wheel-chair when I was out with my grandmother, I would often run in to the manner police types that posted earlier in the thread. I've gotten scolded for "playing" with my grandmother's cane, and it one memorable episode endured a rant by a woman, who was angry I wasn't helping my grandmother pull her wheel-chair out of the car. I'll never forget the look on that woman's face as my granma wheeled my chair up to the drivers side, I transferred in and she pushed me away

Suffice it to say if you're calling people out on their manners you are missing the point entirely.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Ahh to heck with it. I shall take my leave.

 

[JoanneNC]

Personally - I think Disney should fix the root problem here. Bottom line is that its not safe for anyone to be standing in a bus. PERIOD. Young or old, male or female.

It is a hazard that too many people put themselves into every day multiple times a day at Disney. Wasn't there just a fatal accident over the weekend and 9 people on a bus was taken to the hospital with minor injuries. This was during early evening - imagine that same bus at MK closing.

People get so impatient - cramming into a bus knowing full well that after watching the sheer number enter that it must be standing room only. There are so many kids and so many elderly at Disney that it's just bad business to allow this unsafe practice.

We tried Disney busing once... Myself and my 2 kids (6 and 18mths) were lucky to have 2 seats as we loaded first and DH was smushed into the back with the stroller. I am not sure that having a seat was any better. My feet were stepped on multiple times that I ended up with a bruised foot. People were swaying on me - purses were hitting my oldest son as they stood there, etc - That sardine experience was our last. Never took another Disney bus and will never take another Disney bus.

As for Chivarly - my DH has been in the Army 20 years and graduated his father's school of being a man with manners and our 7 year is in training. DH does the right thing for the right reasons but he is only 1 person - You (not directed to anyone) need to also do the right thing. Unfortunately kids at Disney are a dime a dozen and there will never be enough men to give up their seats on a bus.. Just not enough seats. You want your kids to be ensured a SAFE time at Disney - put them where they belong - in a car in a CAR SEAT.....

 

[MelanieC]

I always give up my seat to kids and parents holding kids (as do my hubby and even my kids). But........I don't think anyone should expect people to give up seats. It's nice when it happens, but I agree that if you really don't want to stand and hold a child or have your child stand then you should wait for the next bus.

When my kids were little, especially my son I was always gracious when someone gave up their seats. I never expected anyone to get up for me though.

 

[Howdy Doodat]

Yes. You said people had the right to call people out for not having the same moral beliefs as you do. Everyone has a different set of morals, so the only morals that should be brought into question are ones governed by law. Some people open doors, some give the homeless loose change, and some live solely on what they need and not frills like vacations. Just because you just open doors doesn't mean someone who gives their change to others can call you out for having no morals or not acting the way they think you should, and so on.

got it. i disagree with the premise, but i see where you're coming from.

i think it should be about more than just what is required by law. i think most people agree with that. and if someone wants to stick to doing just those things that are required by law, well, they should be prepared for someone to express some anger, indignation, etc. about it. because people have the right to do that, too.

 

[OandA]

i repeat, it's a minor inconvenience for someone who can stand (even if they're tired), compared to the larger inconvenience for the person with the sleeping child.

what's the best scenario:

1) person A is holding a sleeping child on bus #1, while able-bodied person B sits. person B gives up his/her seat for person A, and they both get back to their hotel on bus #1; or

2) person A is holding a sleeping child, waiting for a bus to go back to the hotel. person B is waiting for the same bus. bus #1 comes along, and person A, seeing that the bus is likely to be crowded, decides not to ride, while person B gets on and arrives back at the hotel on bus #1. some time later (5 minutes? 15 minutes?), bus #2 arrives, person A and child get on, and arrive back at the hotel.


which is better? well, i suppose it depends on whether you're person A or person B, right? person A prefers the first scenario, since he or she gets back to the hotel faster. person B prefers the second scenario, since he or she gets to sit the whole way. but if you're looking at it from afar, without knowing whether you're going to be person A or person B, i think the greater good is served by the first scenario.

the inconvenience to person A of waiting however long it is for the next bus to come while holding the sleeping child, or worse, the possibility of something happening to person A or the child (or someone else) because they were standing on the bus is worse than the inconvenience for person B. does person B have the right to keep his or her seat? yes, of course. does that make it the right thing to do? nope.

I agree with your scenario and your results, just not saying Person B isn't right to keep their seat.

You can't look at things from afar though. Looking at things from afar makes no sense. For example, from afar communism works great. Not so much to the guy who is a CFO of a major company making tough decisions when he looks next door and the guy who sweeps the streets is getting the same pay. Not to bring politics into this at all, it just makes my point.

 

[DJ Disney Kid]

The last time I took my mom to Disney I was worried about her standing on busses. I looked into renting a car, even though I have no sense of direction, and I was prepared to drive to the parks should the need arise. As it happened, mom was fine. But it was my responsibility to see that she was! It was not the responsibilty of a bus full of strangers to make sure she was ok.

Ding Ding Ding!! You win! Its up to the parent to make sure there child is safe. Holding a child in your arms on a packed bus is probably not safe and you shouldn't expect a bus full of strangers to give up their seat. Your concern should be for your child and thus you should wait for the next bus so you can sit SAFELY with your child. Whats happening is that the parent is just as tired as everyone else and is being selfish by not wanting to wait for another bus, yet then they get on the bus and think people are rude and "selfish" for not giving up their seat.

 

[OandA]

Personally - I think Disney should fix the root problem here. Bottom line is that its not safe for anyone to be standing in a bus. PERIOD. Young or old, male or female.

It is a hazard that too many people put themselves into every day multiple times a day at Disney. Wasn't there just a fatal accident over the weekend and 9 people on a bus was taken to the hospital with minor injuries. This was during early evening - imagine that same bus at MK closing.

People get so impatient - cramming into a bus knowing full well that after watching the sheer number enter that it must be standing room only. There are so many kids and so many elderly at Disney that it's just bad business to allow this unsafe practice.

We tried Disney busing once... Myself and my 2 kids (6 and 18mths) were lucky to have 2 seats as we loaded first and DH was smushed into the back with the stroller. I am not sure that having a seat was any better. My feet were stepped on multiple times that I ended up with a bruised foot. People were swaying on me - purses were hitting my oldest son as they stood there, etc - That sardine experience was our last. Never took another Disney bus and will never take another Disney bus.

As for Chivarly - my DH has been in the Army 20 years and graduated his father's school of being a man with manners and our 7 year is in training. DH does the right thing for the right reasons but he is only 1 person - You (not directed to anyone) need to also do the right thing. Unfortunately kids at Disney are a dime a dozen and there will never be enough men to give up their seats on a bus.. Just not enough seats. You want your kids to be ensured a SAFE time at Disney - put them where they belong - in a car in a CAR SEAT.....

Disney could fix the problem by not allowing people to stand. But then they'd have to add twice as many buses and in turn increase the prices they charge quite a bit.

People stand on city buses all the time, it's not just a Disney thing.

 

[JoanneNC]

Disney could fix the problem by not allowing people to stand. But then they'd have to add twice as many buses and in turn increase the prices they charge quite a bit.

People stand on city buses all the time, it's not just a Disney thing.

Your right - this is a service that Disney needs to fix.
People may stand on city buses all the time - but never with the volume to strollers - kids - wheelchairs - all after 10+ hours in a park. Regardless if other cities/places allow it - it's not safe.

The #1 concern here on both sides of the argument is that its just not safe to stand and/or stand and hold a baby. So if its not safe, why allow it?

 

[kandcmch]