Child's Death at Epcot

[Beachangel]

This truly is so tragic.

I don't believe Disney is to blame in this. They warn the people several times of the intensity of this ride...people are WELL aware of way before they sit down. They have minimum height requirements which the boy did meet. They have absolutely no way of knowing who is and is not going to pass out during the ride. It doesn't shock me that he passed out on the ride, but people don't die from passing out...it sounds like there was some sort of uundetected condition going on in him.

I agree! Btw, love your dolphin pic - my family did it a few weeks ago (my second time!).

 

[JMCDAD]

I cannot begin to imagine what these poor parents are going thru
My thoughts and prayers go out to them

On our first trip to WDW 3 years ago my kids were 3, 5, and 8.
We pretty much stayed away from the thrill rides, except for Dinosaur.
We asked the CM how it was and if it was too intense for the kids and she said no it wasn't bad. Not bad? my son was too small so he didn't go on but I went on with my daughters, they were petrified, I was a little scared myself.
But we went to all the 3d shows including the Bug and they loved them.
From what I read I wasn't going to go on MS anyway when we go this year.
My kids will be 6,8,11 this year
My older daugher wants to try alot of the thrill rides this year
We'll see how it goes, its always a tough call with some of these rides, you want them to have all the fun in the world but you don't want them being too scared or getting sick.

For a child to die is just unfathomable

 

[mking624]

Wow, I didn't know we had so many psychic doctors here on the Dis, who could identify a pre-existing condition on a patient they'd never seen.

The fact is that people don't die from passing out alone. That indicates that something far more serious occured. So it's not pretending to be psychic for believing that there could have been an undetected condition.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

I didn't hear about this until this morning. I am so sorry for the child and the family - it's so horrible, whatever the cause, the loss of a child would be devastating.

I have a four year old and whether she met the height requirement or not, I'd never put her on MS. I haven't even ridden it as it sounded too intense for me, much less her. Thing is not everyone is as informed about rides as the people on these boards tend to be, maybe the height restriction should be higher, although if there was an undiagnosed condition that probably wouldn't have helped. They have those warning signs out front right? I'm sure most people never give them a second glance though.

I don't know what the answer is and not assigning blame to anyone. I think they should close the ride until there is an investigation and some valid conclusions can be drawn about what happened.

This is horribly sad.

 

[ChristmasElf]

This was on Mission: Space and not Space Mountain. On Mission: Space it does not really matter how tight the restraints are as they are mostly unneeded.

Actually, the restraints are needed and here is why.

Each cabin has a has a horizontal arm that is attached to a huge (unbelievably huge) motor. When you first enter the ride and sit down, air blows up on your face to keep you from getting sick, the cabin tilts back and the floor drops down under your feet. The centrifuge spins at a very high rate of speed about 1.5 G's now, originally the G force was closer to 3
Because the cabin has been tilted, you are now lying on your back so it looks like the rocket is going up into space. Once you are in "space" the spinning slows down to about 1 so that you feel like you are floating. The Attitude on the cabin now tilts forward (this is where the restraints are needed) and it spins up and the cabin turns back and forth very quickly before it stops, places you back in place and the ride ends.

 

[yollee]

I'm heading to Disney next week - not familiar with the ride...what kind is it? why is it so intense? This is really sad...

 

[Merriwind]

I think we all forget how little *most* people know about disney before they go. We are DISers and have plenty of information to judge what is appropriate for our families when we go. Most people have no idea what to expect when they go to WDW. I remember the first time we went to AK (pre Disboards). Someone told us to go to the "bugs life show" so we did--with our preschoolers. They were petrified. If I'd know more (and knowing our kids were easily scared) I would have skipped it.

Jennypenny, I agree with you 100%. Most people traveling to WDW are not the Disneyaholics and compulsive planners we all are. This family probably had no idea what MS entails beyond an exciting trip to Mars. At age 4, my DD7 was very interested in space, she would have wanted very much to travel to Mars. Had I not read and researched every facet of WDW and M:S, I may have let her ride it.

Just like any of us could have without advanced knowledge, this poor mom probably read through the list of restrictions, mentally said no to them all, had her DS's height checked, told the kids they might feel sick and instructed them to look at the screen throughout the ride to help them not feel too sick. I am sure that they went on this ride anticipating an exciting trip to Mars, as only Disney could provide, with the possibility of some motion sickness.

Sadly, this is such a tragedy, but without a crystal ball, this poor mother, I am sure, had no idea that this was even a potential outcome for her son and family. My heart justs breaks for all of them.

 

[married@wdw]

So I would be curious to hear from the true thrill seekers about how intense this ride actually is? I've ridden every ride at Cedar Point as well as nearly every east coast park...how does this compare with launch coasters etc...

I consider myself a thrill seeker, with a touch of motion sickness. I find launches like RnRC and drops like ToT to be much more intense than MS (love them all though). I get a touch of motion sickness on the tea cups (DH LOVES to spin them as fast as he can and see if he can make me sick!) and on Star Tours / Body Wars. Usually subsides rather quickly -- within 10 minutes I'm fine. I've never felt sick coming off MS and while I think it's very cool, I was surprised to be a bit disappointed after the first time on. I expected more.

 

[SAWYERMAW1]

My daughter (who is now 29) was discovered to have a hole in her heart last summer. It had apparently caused her to have a stoke some 5 years before the hole was discovered. We never knew she had a stoke. When we went to the heart surgeon, he turned white when she told him we had just returned from Disney and all the roller coasters, etc. she had ridden over the years. It's been almost a year since the hole was repaired and she has still not been released to ride rides. Everytime I hear of a young athlete who has died or something like this poor child on MS, I shudder.

 

[LoriZH]

The fact is that people don't die from passing out alone. That indicates that something far more serious occured. So it's not pretending to be psychic for believing that there could have been an undetected condition.

Not to pretend that I am a psychic or a medical expert either, but my husband did state the first thing that there had to have been something wrong with the child beforehand (my dh is a firefighter/paramedic so he does have a medical background, not a medical degree, but he is qualified) he also did state that sure you can die from shock or dehydration on an intense ride, so yes you can die from passing out that is exactly what happened to the child. Who knows, he may have passed out on the ride and got the shaken baby syndrome. He believes that either way, Disney should change their policy about this ride and toddlers because if the child did have a medical condition, they just may have been too young to relay this to their parents, which I agree. I also agree with everyone who states that the ride should be shut down until at least they find out why this happened. We are all just speculating right now it's true.

My thoughts and prayers however are with this poor unfortunate family.

 

[BostonRob]

The fact is that people don't die from passing out alone. That indicates that something far more serious occured. So it's not pretending to be psychic for believing that there could have been an undetected condition.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but that is still PURE speculation at this point.

I'm always up for a good discussion or argument. But in this case, I think we should leave it to the experts for now.

 

[DebbieB]

I've been know to ride ToT and RnR both twice in a row, right after each other with no ill effects. After MS, I was disoriented for 2 or 3 hours. Won't ride it again. I think it does need to be shutdown until the autopsy is complete. Maybe it is too intense for some and they need to add additional warnings. I think 4 years old is too young.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I was trying to post and it disappeared...

Anyway, as I was saying...

I can't imagine what this family must be going through! I agree with a lot of other posters that it might have been a pre-existing, undiagnosed heart condition. I don't think it's fair to blame the parents for choosing to let him ride. He met the requirements, so they did nothing "wrong". Personally, I don't believe I would allow my son to ride at age 4, but then again, odds are he does not have a hidden health problem so he would probably be just fine if I did. We don't know yet that this couldn't have happened to a teen or an adult (since we don't know exactly what happened)! My friend suffered a serious and permanent eye injury (internal damage) while riding a Six Flags coaster a few years ago. The eye surgeon told him the ride almost certainly accelerated the process, but that he had an underlying condition that would've ultimately led to the damage anyway, and it could have happened a few years later when he sneezed, too. Let's wait and get some more facts before we jump to any conclusions, and let's not blame the parents. Unless they took him on the ride knowing he had a serious medical condition, I can't see how they are to blame in this, whether or not I would've done the same.

 

[lillygator]

Not to pretend that I am a psychic or a medical expert either, but my husband did state the first thing that there had to have been something wrong with the child beforehand (my dh is a firefighter/paramedic so he does have a medical background, not a medical degree, but he is qualified) he also did state that sure you can die from shock or dehydration on an intense ride, so yes you can die from passing out that is exactly what happened to the child. Who knows, he may have passed out on the ride and got the shaken baby syndrome. He believes that either way, Disney should change their policy about this ride and toddlers because if the child did have a medical condition, they just may have been too young to relay this to their parents, which I agree. I also agree with everyone who states that the ride should be shut down until at least they find out why this happened. We are all just speculating right now it's true.

My thoughts and prayers however are with this poor unfortunate family.

so you are saying this is how the child died?

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

The fact is that people don't die from passing out alone. That indicates that something far more serious occured. So it's not pretending to be psychic for believing that there could have been an undetected condition.

I totally agree.

 

[deelam]

For me, I use the height limit as a guide for what ride my child can go on. If I never rode MS, I would expect this to be a tame ride based on the height requirement. I don't think the height limit should be 44" or even 48". I would make this a 52 or 54" limit. At the present time I won't let my 9 year old ride this ride. He is 52". I know allot of people like this ride. But I don't like it. I got a bad headache. It ruined my whole day.

 

[LisaR]

Well maybe not shutting it down, but since a toddler most likely cannot tell you that he or she has a pre-existing heart condition, then I think that Disney should change their policy. Either way, if Disney is going to allow a ride that allows toddlers on it, then they need and will take responsibilty. However, if it was from dehydration, then yes they are 100% responsible, I don't recall any signs stating that if you are dehydrated do not go on this attraction. I don't believe for one second that Disney is sitting there trying to shift the responsibility, I believe they will take it. This is my opinion, you go to Disney World to have fun and I know bad things can happen anywhere, but you just don't expect your child to get on a ride at Disney and pass out then you have to carry them out of the attraction by yourself and have them die. Once again, if it's too intense they need to do something about it or shut it down. So yes I am an extremist, but one child's life is worth 100,000 people's 6 minutes of fun.

But an adult can't tell ahead of time if they have an UNKNOWN pre-existing condition so that in effect means rides are potentially not safe for anyone of any age.


In the instance of dehydration, it would not be Disney's fault (or the parent, for that matter, unless the parent was intentionally not allowing the child to drink, which I doubt was the case). When you are dehydrated, your body starts to shut down. Disney does have warnings up stating you should be in good health. Being dehydrated is not being in good health.


Using your logic, children shouldn't be allowed to play basketball because it can lead to death. When I was in junior high, a good friend had a heart attack and died on the basketball court. Nobody was aware of the fact that this perfectly healthy kid had a heart problem. I remember my mom telling me that my friend's mom was so devastated and she blamed herself for allowing her dd to be so involved in sports. Reality is, if my friend didn't die then, she could have died while on a ride in a theme park or maybe when a plane she was on took off. Her heart was defective and nobody knew. The problem she had was not something that would have been caught with a stethoscope. It is tragic but basketball is not to blame for her death.

Accidents happen every day in this world. It is tragic but it is reality. We take risks everytime we get in the car, on a plane or cross a street. If MS has a defect in the ride that can cause death in children and/or adults, then they are 200% responsible. I am NOT defending Disney. But the facts remain that tons of people (including many children) ride MS daily and they do not die. In the case of tragedy we are always looking for someone to blame. Sometimes there isn't anyone to blame. Sometimes it is nothing more then a terrible tragedy.

Lisa

 

[headoflife]

This is first and formost a horrible tragic loss, and my heart goes out to the family.

As for Mission: Space, my DH, DS9, and DNephew8 (but the size of my 6 year old) rode this on our last trip. DH, who has had a pilots license, was very ill and I was really concerned. He was pale and sweating, and looked like he was in major distress for at least two hours. DS was slightly dizzy and quesy for about 45 minutes, and DN, the smalles and youngest of the riders, was totally fine and loved it. I use this as an example of the fact that size, age, and life experience may not be good tools for judging the effect of the ride.

I, too believe that there may have been an undiagnosed pre-existing condition, but the age of the child may have nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the condition had not been diagnosed. I discovered at the age of 32 that I had a heart condition which can result in an irregular, sometimes very rapid, and possibly dangerous heartbeat. I never knew I had this, and had been unsymptomatic my whole life, riding roller coasters with abandon. My first symptoms came when I was pregnant for the first time. I have since had surgery to attempt to correct the problem, but have found that even after the surgery I need to be careful of dehydration, or my heartbeat becomes irregular.

Given all the possible variables, I think assigning blame is very premature.

 

[Tinkerchele]

I am from the same area as this family and the news just broke a few minutes ago...so sad. I can't imagine...

We were there last June and my 5 year old DD was 4 inches too short...we would have gone on if she was tall enough. She was pretty bummed about it. I feel so bad right now. I wouldn't even think or worry about something like that happening. The poor little boy must have had some pre-existing condition.

 

[rayelias]

This is a tragic event, and my prayers go out to the family.

I don't want to get flamed for this, and I am not saying this happened in this case...

There was a thread I posted to about tips and tricks for having your children "appear" taller, so they can get on rides they may have been just barely under the height restrictions. Dozens of moms and dads chimed in on their favorite ways, such as "platform" shoes, or styling up their daughters hair to gain an inch, or suggesting the children sort of "tippie-toe", and of course, making sure they stand up very straight. Every centimeter counts!

This alarmed me, and I suggested that the height requirements are there for a reason - for your childrens' safety. Is it really worth risking the health of your child so they can ride Space Mountain or Tower of Terror? I received very little response, and the tricks and tips kept on coming.

I know a lot of people think that the rules don't apply to them. Or, that bending the rules really doesn't matter. I truly hope that, although this was a horrible situation, that it makes moms and dads give extra thought and consideration before strethcing the rules just to their child can go on a ride that they may not exactly be ready for. There will be more vacations and more memories to be had. Don't bargain with your safety.