Childless by Choice people making rude comments about kids, to people who have kids.

[starstruck93]

My DH was active duty Airforce from 2003-2006. We were stationed in Tampa Florida at the time. I met a very nice person and became great friends with her (or so I thought) during our stay in Tampa. She was older than me (I'm 35 now) she's about 43. She had never been married and never had kids (according to her by choice). Anyway... DS was born in 2005 while we were in Tampa (Sept.) Laura (my so called friend) came over several times to visit us after Maddox was born... she seemed fine with our DS. Fast forward......after we moved to D.C. in April 2006... I invited Laura to come see us. She was sooooooo impatient and RUDE about having to wait for me to take care of DS!! He was only 7 months old them!!! I had just bathed him one afternoon and had him on the bed dressing him and she said... "THIS is why I could NEVER have a child.... they're just way too much work!!!!" She was at my house for 3 days and it felt like 3 YEARS! She complained about everything but particularly about my DS!!! My husband said... "Does she not understand that just because she's in town does not mean you're no longer a mom?!!" Needless to say..... we are no longer friends! I really never want to hear from her again! Yes, I totally understand where you're coming from! I'm so sorry! Hugs! April

 

[honugirl]

Hey. I'm glad to hear you're okay. I don't go over to the CB often but I've often wanted to let you know that I hope you and your family are doing okay.

Take care.

Thanks! We're all hanging in there.


I see most of you identifying yourself as a mom. I get the vibe that's all you are. For my "mom" friends, at least in my mind, I still see them as they were before they became "mom." I accept that they have kids, but honestly, I don't want to spend all the time I have with them with their kids. I don't mind doing it once and awhile, but when I call them every time and its oh, so and so has this and so and so has this and I've got to bring so and so along it's really frustrating. Yeah, you're a mom, but you're also a friend, a caregiver, an artist, a hockey player, a college student, whomever. Don't lose sight of that. There are other parts of you than just "mom". Sometimes we just want to spend time with you and no, we don't want to talk about the kids. We want to go shopping and look at pretty stuff that none of us can afford and we want to go grab a Starbucks extra hot and comment on the cute barista with you. I'll accept that to be a friend to a mom the kids will be there once in awhile, hey, I even like some kid places like OMSI, but I also expect that we get some kid free time too every now and then even if its' just a night out to our favorite band when they're in town.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

While all of that sounds fun, sometimes it just isn't possible. And frankly, it is just not a priority. Let me see, hockey player or parent? Friends should stick around during the hard times, and it is hard to have young children at home. I work with MOPS moms and one of the hardest things they deal with is their "friends" who ditch them because of their kids.

It is the friend who waits it out who is a friend. Because eventually small children grow up a bit, and are not in such need of their mom. Then they become teens, and it all becomes so much easier. There is time for shopping, and bookstores, and ogling. There are different seasons in life. And if you are only in a friendship because a person fulfils your needs, it isn't much of a relationship.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

While all of that sounds fun, sometimes it just isn't possible. And frankly, it is just not a priority. Let me see, hockey player or parent? Friends should stick around during the hard times, and it is hard to have young children at home. I work with MOPS moms and one of the hardest things they deal with is their "friends" who ditch them because of their kids.

It is the friend who waits it out who is a friend. Because eventually small children grow up a bit, and are not in such need of their mom. Then they become teens, and it all becomes so much easier. There is time for shopping, and bookstores, and ogling. There are different seasons in life. And if you are only in a friendship because a person fulfils your needs, it isn't much of a relationship.

Great post!!!

 

[connorlevismom]

Thanks! We're all hanging in there.


I see most of you identifying yourself as a mom. I get the vibe that's all you are. For my "mom" friends, at least in my mind, I still see them as they were before they became "mom." I accept that they have kids, but honestly, I don't want to spend all the time I have with them with their kids. I don't mind doing it once and awhile, but when I call them every time and its oh, so and so has this and so and so has this and I've got to bring so and so along it's really frustrating. Yeah, you're a mom, but you're also a friend, a caregiver, an artist, a hockey player, a college student, whomever. Don't lose sight of that. There are other parts of you than just "mom". Sometimes we just want to spend time with you and no, we don't want to talk about the kids. We want to go shopping and look at pretty stuff that none of us can afford and we want to go grab a Starbucks extra hot and comment on the cute barista with you. I'll accept that to be a friend to a mom the kids will be there once in awhile, hey, I even like some kid places like OMSI, but I also expect that we get some kid free time too every now and then even if its' just a night out to our favorite band when they're in town.

I still see myself as more than "just a mom" as you put it. However, I am not going to refrain from talking about my kids. For most parents, kids are the most important thing in their lives and to ask us to not talk about them because you don't want to is kind of well, rude. Part of being a friend is taking the good with the bad. Maybe your mom friends don't want to hear about your latest interest either but I cannot imagine they tell you they don't want to hear about it. So if your not allowed to talk about your life, they they are not allowed to talk about theirs, there is really not much of a relationship at all.

As for the running kids here and there, well that is a part of being a parent. We cannot just stop being parents. Sure, I could have my husband take my son to t-ball but then I would miss his t-ball! It is important to me to be supportive and be there for my kids and that requires me to sacrafice "me" time sometimes. I had parents who would just drop me at things and never watched me do anything, I will never forget they were not there to watch me. I don't want to be that parent. God knows what they were doing but they felt that was more important than me. That hurt and I will not do that to my kids.

So while I understand what your saying, I can honestly tell you that if you were my "friend" and you did not want to hear about my kids, you would not be a friend. Does that make sense?

Kristine

 

[Nancyg56]

Okay... wow... glad you read the rest of my post before getting all worked up.

I don't think that everyone is like that, but I do know of some people who honestly don't want kids because they don't want to give up buying themselves things or travelling or buying nice things. That is selfish.

And yes, the majority of childless by choice have extenuating circumstances or have no interest in child rearing. But LIKE I SAID... I very rarely hear those people purposely degrading other people's children, especially to a mother.

I did read your post and I don't find that people who have determined that they want to travel, etc are selfish. I find them honest. Selfish is having children and then refusing to make sure that those children have what they need, either materially or emotionally or socially.

Most people do not make rude remarks about another's choices. Rude people make remarks and then decide why those people have made their decisions.

I have had to take my cousin to task for the "you are selfish for only having one child" thing. She knew nothing about her decision, had had children of her own and already has a flock of grandchildren. The rest of us had refrained for voicing an opinion of her DS and DDIL continuing to try to conceive after having seven children. Her DDIL is very high risk, and 6 of their seven children had spent months in the PICU after their births. The last pregnancy almost cost her her life. Now I find the decision to perhaps leave 7 children motherless in order to have the perfect dozen selfish.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I have friends who don't have kids. We don't talk about kids because they can't relate.

If they're hockey freaks, they don't talk about hockey to me because I can't relate.

 

[xipetotec]

I have this girl at work who has no kids (am quite frankly, I am glad) and tells people about how they are never going to have kids. She hates kids and really sees no purpose for them. Ok cool, I really don't care if people choose to have kids or not. There was a time in my life where I thought I would never have kids either.

This particular person makes rude and mean comments about kids all the time to me. I have a 5 year old and I am pregnant with #2. Why on earth would you make comments like "I don't know why anyone would voluntarily have those things" (I got that one yesterday after she had just babysat her 2 month old nephew). She is always making comments about how horrible, annoying, gross, loud.....kids are. I just look at her like, why would you say something like that? I would never say to her that people who don't have kids are selfish. Now, I don't think that but even still, I would never say it even if I did.

So is there a double standard with this?

Kristine

I've known people like that and I have to agree with you that it's incredibly rude. FOR STARTERS she will never know "why someone would have those things" if she never does. I can admit that I was not a fan of kids as a younger person, but once you have them, you "get it" ... But beyond that, if you don't want kids, that's fine... but to be rude to people who do... that's just downright wrong.

 

[Colleen27]

While all of that sounds fun, sometimes it just isn't possible. And frankly, it is just not a priority. Let me see, hockey player or parent? Friends should stick around during the hard times, and it is hard to have young children at home. I work with MOPS moms and one of the hardest things they deal with is their "friends" who ditch them because of their kids.

It is the friend who waits it out who is a friend. Because eventually small children grow up a bit, and are not in such need of their mom. Then they become teens, and it all becomes so much easier. There is time for shopping, and bookstores, and ogling. There are different seasons in life. And if you are only in a friendship because a person fulfils your needs, it isn't much of a relationship.

Well said. Although there are women who define themselves solely/primarily as "mom" from the moment they have their first child and hold onto that for the rest of their lives, for most women it is a stage that passes with surprising quickness. There is a time when everything ends up revolving around the kids because they are little and needy. And then there is a time when they need you less and you have more "me time" to take up neglected hobbies. And then there is a time when they're grown and gone and your life is solely your own again. True friends hang in there and understand that we don't all pass through those phases on the same timetable.

 

[kpm76]

Funny story that happened this weekend: My mom's cousin and her husband were visiting and staying with my parents. They both are retired and had outstanding careers and are now enjoying their retirements homes and travel frequently. They married later in life and never had children. We don't see them very often but when we do I find the conversations fascinating. I brought DD2 over to meet them and prompted DD to give mom's cousin and her husband a kiss when we arrived. Mom's cousin says "oh no, we're not kid people." I was not offended at all; I know their life is so different from mine but I thought it was hysterical that they didn't even want DD to give them a kiss! Later in the night, mom's cousin warmed up to DD and decided to hold her. DD was telling her what all the farm animals say, which we think is cute..haha, but mom's cousin had enough and said "ok, that's enough now." Again, I could not look at DH because I was going to burst out laughing. This couple has admitted that they are too selfish for kids and enjoyed the finer things that they might otherwise not have enjoyed if they were raising a family. My response is always "children are not for everyone and good for you for knowing you would not be great parents." I still enjoy the company of these folks even if they don't "love" my 2 yr old...lol.

 

[honugirl]

I understand that kids take a lot of time. I see it from my cousins and my friends that have kids. But friendship is a 2 way street. I'll hang in there when they're needy, I get it, but I also expect that dad can take care of the kid for a few while we go grab a coffee or something and gab about stuff. You want to take the kid to everything, fine, that's your choice, heck, I may even go to a game now and then, but it would be nice if once in awhile I got to feel like you care and value my friendship. I don't want to feel like the 3rd wheel, which I end up feeling like all the time. Think about it from the other side. What if I got this terrific new job and worked 24/7 and you wanted to get together but I had to tell you all the time, no, I have to work, or oh, yeah, I can come, but I have to do such and such for work? Or I can come, but we're meeting so and so from work. Do you mind? Many people would mind after awhile, it gets old. It's a 2 way street, I make time for you, you make time for me. It's all in how you treat people whether they stick around or not.

And from talking to most of the moms I know, they actually still enjoy an adult conversation.

And yes, parents do play hockey, I was on a team full of moms. It can be done, if you want it to be done. After each game our locker room looked like romper room, but it worked for them.

 

[connorlevismom]

I understand that kids take a lot of time. I see it from my cousins and my friends that have kids. But friendship is a 2 way street. I'll hang in there when they're needy, I get it, but I also expect that dad can take care of the kid for a few while we go grab a coffee or something and gab about stuff. You want to take the kid to everything, fine, that's your choice, heck, I may even go to a game now and then, but it would be nice if once in awhile I got to feel like you care and value my friendship. I don't want to feel like the 3rd wheel, which I end up feeling like all the time. Think about it from the other side. What if I got this terrific new job and worked 24/7 and you wanted to get together but I had to tell you all the time, no, I have to work, or oh, yeah, I can come, but I have to do such and such for work? Or I can come, but we're meeting so and so from work. Do you mind? Many people would mind after awhile, it gets old. It's a 2 way street, I make time for you, you make time for me. It's all in how you treat people whether they stick around or not.

And from talking to most of the moms I know, they actually still enjoy an adult conversation.

And yes, parents do play hockey, I was on a team full of moms. It can be done, if you want it to be done. After each game our locker room looked like romper room, but it worked for them.

I TOTALLY get this. There are lots of days where I just tell me husband that I need some time to do something by myself and he never even questions it. I NEED that time away from my son (and to be daughter). What I was responding to was that you said you don't want to hear about our kids. Don't want us to talk about them. That is really hard for a parent to do since our kids are such a huge part of our life. Do you know what I mean?

Kristine

 

[reservations4five]

Thank you all so much for your responses. I knew if I posted here I would get some sassy comebacks , some horrible stories of ones own experiences and some honest opinions from the other side.

I do think this person is just an unhappy person all around. She is someone who is never happy about anything and always complaining. So I try not to get to mad about her comments. It is just that I am in my 3rd trimester now which is not really the best time in the world (espeically during summer) so I am already kind of crabby. I don't need someone spewing their hate for kids when I am freaking about this next one coming along.

As far as why people think it is selfish to not have kids, I have no idea. I don't feel that way at all so I don't know where that through process comes from. I do know that I have great respect for someone that can acknowledge they are not parent material. Not everyone is and I wish that more people would recognise that they are not parent material. There are so many people in this world with kids who quite frankly, should never have them. Look at all the kids who are beaten or killed by their own parents.
Kristine

I am a child psych nurse and let me tell you this is my feelings exactly- this is also why I am pro choice. I work with WAY to many kids that are in the foster system because their parents chose to drink, do drugs, shake them, hit them, rape them, burn the house down around them, fill in the blanks with what ever horror story you would like. But it is mostly the same outcome- SAD.

I am a mommy- first and formost. This is something I have CHOSE for myself. I was a young mom and my DH was a young dad. We did lose ALL of our friends because they were doing their own thing during that time. Now they are all having their little ones and mine are at the "nice stage" and I get to say "You will survive- I did" LOL

I have a family member that doesn't like kids- and her mom is pushing her to have kids so she "will grow up" She is married, but not happily- I caused major upset when I polietly said that really is not a reason to have a baby.

I would have to say something though along the lines of when I was out with my twins and my dd was 5 and people would say "Better you than me!"
I would say "yeah I agree!= )"

 

[honugirl]

I TOTALLY get this. There are lots of days where I just tell me husband that I need some time to do something by myself and he never even questions it. I NEED that time away from my son (and to be daughter). What I was responding to was that you said you don't want to hear about our kids. Don't want us to talk about them. That is really hard for a parent to do since our kids are such a huge part of our life. Do you know what I mean?

Kristine

Yup, I get it now. And on that, it's the 2 way street again. I'll listen to a bit about your kids, you listen to my activities and we're all a little better for it. I guess I get defensive because the whole conversation ends up turning to the kids. I really want to hear about that art class or how school's going, those kids of things. Things we usually don't have time to talk about. Balance is the key.

 

[NotUrsula]

LOL, even DH and I have declared our evenings out a "no talk about the kids" zone because gosh darn it, the little varmints will monopolize your attention even when they are NOT present if you let them!

Seriously, it's common courtesy not to monopolize a conversation or continually drag the subject back to something that the other person plainly has no genuine interest in. I have to remind DS of this all the time when he keeps trying to drag the dinner conversation back to video games.

My friends politely ask me how the kids are, and I give them the 3 minute synopsis, and then the conversation moves on to some other topic. This is true whether or not the friend in question has kids -- if the friend is a parent we each do the 3-minute update, and then we talk about other things.

I've got 2 kids, and I love them, but I'm not a kid-centric person by nature, and I love getting a break from that whole universe every once in a while. It's very refreshing to be able to have an adult discussion about politics or art or a good movie.

DH and I like to reference what we call the "game-show introduction" test to determine how kid-centric a person seems to be. If you were going to be on a game show and supplied a brief introduction for them to use, would you be first described by your parental status, your profession, your favorite hobby -- what? If you'll notice, men tend to not mention their kids in that 20-second blurb, but women very often do. I personally wouldn't. I would most likely give them my profession and leave it at that. I love my kids, but they don't define me as a person.