Child support wage reporting.

[tomthebarncat]

I'm sorry but I am confused. You say you are an "obnoxiously positive" person, but you find it difficult to find "solutions to life's problems"?
Usually positive people can see that there are ways to getting things in life if you want them enough. It is just all about how much you want to do to get them.

Also, we aren't automatically supposed to think the worst of your friend, but we are supposed to think the worst of the mother? That is what you are asking, right? You aren't asking us to see both sides of the story, you are asking us just to see one side-your friend's.



Trust me, I wouldn't.

The non-custodial parent is treated as a deadbeat from day one - with assumptions that the parent will not live up to the court order. I posted a link to the reality, but no one seems to care. It is as though everyone has an axe to grind. I just don't get it. How can you support a system that is so badly broken?[/QUOTE]

I did see your link. I am very weary of its source. I'm always skeptical of statistics and such, because with a little research on google I could find a ton of other statistics from a ton of other sources directly contradicting your article. Where are the statistics from? Who supports the organization garnering the statistics? I could go and do some research, but alas, it is late and I am tired. Maybe tomorrow, if the Christmas rush doesn't set in-I will get back to you .



Never said that it gave the mom the right to inflict emotional abuse, it just doesn't give the dad the right to flee. In fact, I don't understand why, as a parent, you would want your kid to stay with someone like that. Wouldn't it make you fight harder for your kid? Why would you want to leave your kid with a person who is emotionally abusive?
And, yes, I remember the story from Sunday school. It was actually a king, not a judge. But, I'm sorry did I miss the post where they said they were gonna split the kid in half? That would be a new development in the story.[/QUOTE]

I did not write this, the multi function option is not working and I cannot figure out how to delete the post

 

[deegack]

This figure shows how flawed your thinking is. Do you realize you are saying that someone would need to make over $43000/year to provide just the basic necessities for one child? Even in NJ, there are lots of families (which implies more than 1 person) who manage to get by on less than $43000/year, and that's before taxes.

Yup, this woman in Bama's story is just out to make life miserable for her ex. It's a shame that it's the child who is really going to suffer for her greediness.

I work with a guy who is going through something similar, although he never bailed. His kids were older when he and his ex split and believe me, they see through their mother's actions. They have lost all respect for her due to the way they have treated their dad. You know...what goes around, comes around...

The numbers come from my own budget before I ended up leaving work to stay home with DD. So fir northern nj, the numbers are accurate. Yes I could find cheaper daycare but not anywhere I would send my cat, but my mortgage is more then double the rent figure so I think it's pretty much a wash.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Never said that it gave the mom the right to inflict emotional abuse, it just doesn't give the dad the right to flee. In fact, I don't understand why, as a parent, you would want your kid to stay with someone like that. Wouldn't it make you fight harder for your kid? Why would you want to leave your kid with a person who is emotionally abusive?
And, yes, I remember the story from Sunday school. It was actually a king, not a judge. But, I'm sorry did I miss the post where they said they were gonna split the kid in half? That would be a new development in the story.

In short--it reminds me of the suicide threads. Folks will post that they cannot understand how people could be so selfish. OThers will post that it goes deeper than that and there is much pain for someone to do that.

You beat up someone enough either physically or emotionally, and often--they make the choice that makes that pain stop.

I'll google the split in half story.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Edit button not working for me....

I didn't actually realize I was recalling a Bible story. Obviously dividing the child in half would kill him, but that was the point of the trick. King was judging, so why I recalled "judge" instead of "king" and he did not say kill, he was going to split the child in half which would obviously kill him.

Won't post quote as I don't wish to cause a ruckus of board rules--but you can google it as well.

 

[Kathi OD]

The numbers come from my own budget before I ended up leaving work to stay home with DD. So fir northern nj, the numbers are accurate. Yes I could find cheaper daycare but not anywhere I would send my cat, but my mortgage is more then double the rent figure so I think it's pretty much a wash.

Those numbers, even for North Jersey, are extremely inflated. You're saying BASIC needs. Based on your numbers, and line of thinking, a family of three would need to earn $129,000 just for basic needs. There are plenty of 3-person families in North Jersey living on considerably less than $129K/year. Heck, there are lots of 4 and 5 people families living on less than that. I know many of them personally.

Just because that's what your budget is, doesn't mean that it's the norm. As the recent recession has shown many of us, wants and needs are entirely 2 different things.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I'm sorry but I am confused. You say you are an "obnoxiously positive" person, but you find it difficult to find "solutions to life's problems"?

Try again. You misquote me on purpose, me thinks.

Also, we aren't automatically supposed to think the worst of your friend, but we are supposed to think the worst of the mother? That is what you are asking, right? You aren't asking us to see both sides of the story, you are asking us just to see one side-your friend's.

I only offered his story (or my understanding of his story) to point out the problems in the system, not to make you pick sides in their specific battle.

Trust me, I wouldn't.

No one can please everyone.

I did see your link. I am very weary of its source.

Of course you are. I am the only one who actually provided anything like real statistics, and they are discarded out of hand. Why? Because they don't say what you want to hear, maybe?

Never said that it gave the mom the right to inflict emotional abuse, it just doesn't give the dad the right to flee...

You have the right to this opinion. I am only trying to offer a different perspective. We can agree to disagree.

 

[ctinct]

Again, I have a hard time with this story. I just googled the child support guidelines for NJ. The child support is based on the NET TAKE HOME of both parties combined. The chart maxes out at $3600 a week take home , which is $453 a week. For simplicity, I'm going to go with 4 weeks in a month. If I suppose that the ex-wife did not have a paying job at the time of the divorce, then according to the chart, in order to be ordered to pay $450 weekly, there would have to be $3550 to $3560 in take home pay on the husband's part. That would be $184,600 in TAKE HOME pay. If he paid $450 a week for 52 weeks, that is $23400 a year, leaving him $161200 to live on. Surely one can get by on that in NJ.

Here is the govt. website for NJ; the child support amounts are in appendix F.
I realize there are other factors to consider, but something does not smell right. And again, I do not understand WHY the court did not allow a reduction of child support once his income decreased. It is basically numbers driven, so what was the rationale for the court refusing to lower the payments? I believe you are reporting what your friend told you, op, but I just don't think he has been totally straight with you.


http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/csguide/index.htm

ETA:
OP, I just reread the entire thread again. I was looking for those statistics (you say you are the only one who has provided anything like real statistics). The only thing I can find that you posted was a snippet of an article from a site that, while it says it is geared to all non-custodial parents, seems to me to be heavily biased in favor of non-custodial fathers. I did not see any verification of the few numbers posted in the brief excerpt you provided. Did I miss another link somewhere? And, for what it's worth, I had previously provided real statistics from CT as an example of how one state calculates child support. I went back and found NJ for everyone now since obvioulsy CT was just an example, and the NJ guidelines are what really matter here.

 

[deegack]

Those numbers, even for North Jersey, are extremely inflated. You're saying BASIC needs. Based on your numbers, and line of thinking, a family of three would need to earn $129,000 just for basic needs. There are plenty of 3-person families in North Jersey living on considerably less than $129K/year. Heck, there are lots of 4 and 5 people families living on less than that. I know many of them personally.

Just because that's what your budget is, doesn't mean that it's the norm. As the recent recession has shown many of us, wants and needs are entirely 2 different things.

Nope we live a pretty middle class existence. We have one car a Hyundai, our house is less then 1200 square feet, my daughter's daycare was a the YMCA not an expensive Montessori school or anything like that. I shop with coupons. The majority of my daughters clothing and toys are hand me downs from older cousins, so its not like we are burning dollar bills in our fireplace.
N. NJ is one of the highest col in the country so those numbers are pretty normal for the area.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Nope we live a pretty middle class existence. We have one car a Hyundai, our house is less then 1200 square feet, my daughter's daycare was a the YMCA not an expensive Montessori school or anything like that. I shop with coupons. The majority of my daughters clothing and toys are hand me downs from older cousins, so its not like we are burning dollar bills in our fireplace.
N. NJ is one of the highest col in the country so those numbers are pretty normal for the area.

Are you actually saying that you think that it is normal to have $129k in living expenses for a family of three in NJ? Really? Because it isn't true.

The median household income in NJ is $68k. To clear $129k, a family would have to earn more than $200k.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Again, I have a hard time with this story. I just googled the child support guidelines for NJ...

Not sure if it matters, but my friend lived on Long Island and was a NYC Fireman.

 

[kiddo76]

Not sure if it matters, but my friend lived on Long Island and was a NYC Fireman.

Ah, so if he's been there a few years, he likely makes about $100k a year. So his buddies 'let' him take all these OT shifts so he could save for a house, but they won't 'let' him take those OT shifts when he's near destitute and ready to kill himself? I don't buy it.

Firefighters are usually pretty consistent in what they earn with OT and base their lifestyle off of that. OT money isn't this big windfall for them. As a result, they can be pretty protective of those OT shifts. If they don't get the OT they want, they see it as money out of their pockets.

I think it's perfectly fair to tap OT money for child support, especially in a profession like firefighting where a large chunk of their pay (somtimes more than half) comes from OT. But then the person required to pay child support dumps the OT thinking they won't have to pay as much in support. The judge likely sees this all the time, where OT suddenly dries up after a divorce. He'd also know that OT is a pretty standard part of a firefighter's pay and is likely available to the parent if he wants it.

None of these parents sound like real winners to me. But talking about how terrible the wife is, blah, blah, blah, is just excuses. And there is absolutely no excuse for dumping your kid. It ticks me off that these parents don't realize how completley blessed they are to have beautiful, healthy children and then toss them away when things get too hard.

 

[cheermom1]

Ah, so if he's been there a few years, he likely makes about $100k a year. So his buddies 'let' him take all these OT shifts so he could save for a house, but they won't 'let' him take those OT shifts when he's near destitute and ready to kill himself? I don't buy it.

Firefighters are usually pretty consistent in what they earn with OT and base their lifestyle off of that. OT money isn't this big windfall for them. As a result, they can be pretty protective of those OT shifts. If they don't get the OT they want, they see it as money out of their pockets.

I think it's perfectly fair to tap OT money for child support, especially in a profession like firefighting where a large chunk of their pay (somtimes more than half) comes from OT. But then the person required to pay child support dumps the OT thinking they won't have to pay as much in support. The judge likely sees this all the time, where OT suddenly dries up after a divorce. He'd also know that OT is a pretty standard part of a firefighter's pay and is likely available to the parent if he wants it.

None of these parents sound like real winners to me. But talking about how terrible the wife is, blah, blah, blah, is just excuses. And there is absolutely no excuse for dumping your kid. It ticks me off that these parents don't realize how completley blessed they are to have beautiful, healthy children and then toss them away when things get too hard.

Sounds like to me you are either a single mom and is really nasty to your ex or you have never been a step mom or never been in these people shoes to understand what is really going on. B/c believe me no one that I have ever met in a situation like this wants to leave their kids. They just feel as though it is better for their children which is a very loving thing to do.

I'm in no way saying it is the right thing but I can understand where they are coming from.

It has nothing to do with being too hard and everything to do with them trying to do the best thing for their children.

You are still not getting that if CS is so high that they can't even afford a place for themselves then they can't provide for their children while they have them. then they have the mom in most cases telling the kids how much daddy doesn't love them and parental ailanting them (yes that is for real). These guys just feel as though that are worthless and it is hopeless to do anything if it is met with no money and all the other crap that their exes do.

I know for my dh his ex was always calling the police and making some kind of accusation and mind you a lot of the times these things stick on a innocent man and they will have their right taken anyway. I don't think I can describe all the things that go into a decision for the dad to walk. This is for the ones that do try btw not dead beats.

 

[disneychrista]

Not sure about other states but in California child support is based on total income and number of kids and is adjusted by % of time spent with the non-custodial parent.

1 Child = 25% after tax income
2 children = 40% after tax income
3+ = 50% after tax income

 

[kiddo76]

Sounds like to me you are either a single mom and is really nasty to your ex or you have never been a step mom or never been in these people shoes to understand what is really going on.

Nope, not a single mom. I've tried desperately to have kids, but I can't. I am a child of divorced parents. My dad was an electrician with sporadic OT. As he earned OT, he voluntarily gave my mom more child support. When work slowed, my mom let him off having to pay or took less. When work was real slow, he took jobs in PA and NJ when we were living in MA so he could support his family (me and my siblings) and drove home every weekend to see us. Not because my mom made him, but because that's what he needed to do to take care of his children. That's what he would have done if my parents were still married. That's the way responsible adults should act.

I've sadly realized that my father is in a minority of divorced dads. He wanted to give his kids the same quality of life that we would have had if he were still living with us. Which included their plans of college for us.

Sorry, no one will ever convince me that dumping your kids is the right thing to do and I could never be married to one that did walk away.

 

[jen0610]

None of these parents sound like real winners to me. But talking about how terrible the wife is, blah, blah, blah, is just excuses. And there is absolutely no excuse for dumping your kid. It ticks me off that these parents don't realize how completley blessed they are to have beautiful, healthy children and then toss them away when things get too hard.

Great assumption.

I am the OP and the guy I was asking about, DID NOT TOSS his kids away.

Some facts:

His EX is the one who wanted the divorce. As previously posted, she married beneth her station. She is an educated nurse who married a truck driver. She is now married to her former employer - the Dr she worked for when she filed for divorce. He loves his kids, just not her.

He pays - and pays dearly - in support. His weekly support amount is $310.00. She is an RN and works in her husband plastic surgery practice. But according to the records she has submitted to the courts, she only makes $400.00 a week.

On top of the weekly support payment, out of his check he has to provide health insurance, vision insurance, and dental insurance to the tune of $225.84 cents a week. This is above what he would have to pay for himself on the health insurance and not taking out vision or dental. In the 5 years that he has worked here, she has used this insurance ZERO times, but he needs to keep providing it because they may need it.

On top of this, he is also responsible for all of the cost before the deductable is met on the insurances. He has to pay for 1/2 of all the other out of pocket medical expenses. Which he fully agees that he should be paying.

Also, he is responsible for 1/2 the expenses for anything that those kids are active in. And those kids are in multipule activities.

By the time, he gets done paying for all of this every month, he is left with on average $150.00 a week - as I said in the first post OT is not a weekly thing. Some weeks, its more, others less. But for average once he is done paying out to the EX, he has 600.00 with which to pay rent, utilities, buy gas, make a car payment, buy car insurance, and get food. His family is not from here, so there is no family he can stay with. Don't know about friends.

So, I do feel for this guy who is getting screwed by the system. He gets 600.00 to live on, while the "kids" are getting $1240.00 + 903.36 that is down the tubes for the insurance cost.

And while I don't have to tell you any of you this, this man to save money lived in his car from May to early Nov because he could not afford rent and to cover his kids activties. With the cold weather setting in, he is now at a men's shelter. His pride is gone, but he is still working to keep his kids living.

 

[cheermom1]

Nope, not a single mom. I've tried desperately to have kids, but I can't. I am a child of divorced parents. My dad was an electrician with sporadic OT. As he earned OT, he voluntarily gave my mom more child support. When work slowed, my mom let him off having to pay or took less. When work was real slow, he took jobs in PA and NJ when we were living in MA so he could support his family (me and my siblings) and drove home every weekend to see us. Not because my mom made him, but because that's what he needed to do to take care of his children. That's what he would have done if my parents were still married. That's the way responsible adults should act.

I've sadly realized that my father is in a minority of divorced dads. He wanted to give his kids the same quality of life that we would have had if he were still living with us. Which included their plans of college for us.

Sorry, no one will ever convince me that dumping your kids is the right thing to do and I could never be married to one that did walk away.

Your dad had an ex (your mother) that LET him do that. That is the key you are missing. Your mother sounds like a REASONABLE person, the mothers that I and a lot of the others ate talking about are not. They will not work with the father to save their lives. All they can think about is how to get more money and the next nasty stunt they want to pull on their ex. THIS is the situations most of us here are talking about. Not the parents that can work together for their kids. These mothers that we are talking don;t care weather they mess up their kids just to make their exes life H@LL.

I hope this gives you a different side of the coin to look at.

 

[deegack]

Are you actually saying that you think that it is normal to have $129k in living expenses for a family of three in NJ? Really? Because it isn't true.

The median household income in NJ is $68k. To clear $129k, a family would have to earn more than $200k.

The col in northern nj and compared to
southern or central is vastly
different. We considered a move to
outsidePhilly just because we could live a better lifestyle but when we factored in the enormous pay cuts we would have to take it wasn't worth it. I would say in my pretty average n nj suburb pulling I over 125,000 is pretty much the norm. It could be a one or two income house but the norm. To get an idea look at one of those websites that tells you how much you would have to make to live the same lifestyle in n nj. You may be shocked.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

The col in northern nj and compared to
southern or central is vastly
different. We considered a move to
outsidePhilly just because we could live a better lifestyle but when we factored in the enormous pay cuts we would have to take it wasn't worth it. I would say in my pretty average n nj suburb pulling I over 125,000 is pretty much the norm. It could be a one or two income house but the norm. To get an idea look at one of those websites that tells you how much you would have to make to live the same lifestyle in n nj. You may be shocked.

I live in Northern New Jersey.

 

[gina2000]

I live in Northern New Jersey.

In all fairness, you live in northwestern NJ close to Delaware. That's hugely different than living in northeastern NJ abutting NYC.

I do agree with you on all the rest of this, though. Quite frankly, if you have children together, you put the children first. But no one should use them as pawns in a power struggle.

 

[punkin]

In all fairness, you live in northwestern NJ close to Delaware. That's hugely different than living in northeastern NJ abutting NYC.

Blairstown, Alpine...what's the difference?