Well of course I would take my child in a dressing room, its certainly preferable to an open area. And it goes without saying that its my responsibility to ensure my child does not stare at women in various states of undress. But I stand by my "oh well" comment, if someone objects to my choice of bringing my child in a dressing room over letting him go to the men's changing room by himself and risking his safety, thats their problem, not mine.
Child molested in bathroom
- Thread starter isyne4u
- Start date
Well of course I would take my child in a dressing room, its certainly preferable to an open area. And it goes without saying that its my responsibility to ensure my child does not stare at women in various states of undress. But I stand by my "oh well" comment, if someone objects to my choice of bringing my child in a dressing room over letting him go to the men's changing room by himself and risking his safety, thats their problem, not mine.
I think we agree - there are situations where young boys simply have to go into the ladies locker room. As long as everyone's boundaries and privacy are respected, any women who still have a problem with the boy's presence need to get over it. I am only saying that respect goes both ways (not that I am suggesting that you are disrespecting someone, but unfortunately some moms do).
Disney Princess 6
<font color=purple>I'm Eeyore's human counterpart
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The other day I went into a bathroom (alone) at Saks 5th Avenue. It had a totally separate area just for families, which I thought was such a great idea. It bothers me that I had to walk into a very upscale store to find this situation. It would be nice if all estabishments would offer this situation. It certainly seems to me that reststops and such should have family bathrooms. I don't understand why this practice is more commonly offered. Until it is, I will continue to take both of my kids with me everywhere that I go.
trishy
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I'm just curious - and this is probably on a separate thread; feel free to show me the link - if there are those of you with girls who have a dh like mine who absolutely refuses to take them in the men's room. Mine refused after 4 yrs - that's the line he drew. When he would take the girls somewhere, he would wait until he saw a "nice-looking" (the appearance of a motherly type - not a model) mom and ask her to take our dd(s) from age 5 till about age 7. After that they would go alone. I even had one incident when my littlest was 7 (last year) where she had to go BAD, but there was a VERY long line and still dh refused to take her to the men's that had NO line 
even if I wrapped her scarf around her eyes... Anyway, I've never minded a mom taking a boy into a bathroom, because it just doesn't bug me anyway - I have a strong feeling that the boys don't really want to be there in the first place and I feel a bit sad for them. But what are you gonna do? When there is a boy in the women's room, my 2 youngest (8 & 10) INSIST that I stay outside their door (I think my 8 yr. old just imitates my neurotic 10 yr. old). Unfortunately, sickos are out there; fortunately for my 3 dd's, they don't seem to be in the women's restrooms. 
even if I wrapped her scarf around her eyes... Anyway, I've never minded a mom taking a boy into a bathroom, because it just doesn't bug me anyway - I have a strong feeling that the boys don't really want to be there in the first place and I feel a bit sad for them. But what are you gonna do? When there is a boy in the women's room, my 2 youngest (8 & 10) INSIST that I stay outside their door (I think my 8 yr. old just imitates my neurotic 10 yr. old). Unfortunately, sickos are out there; fortunately for my 3 dd's, they don't seem to be in the women's restrooms. twinmomplus2
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This was not the thread I had responded to. the one I Had responded to. I believe was started by Pete's Mom? That thread ws I fealt out of hand. and it did get a little snippy. I admit I was snippy as well.
But he double LL... The thread referanced here is very obnoxious. Thank goodness it's locked. I agree with Gail on this one small minded bigotry.
As for a grown woman yelling at young children for using the ladies room. This is maddening and absurd. Using your own misfortune, fate whatever to give your self a free pass at another. I think not. If you/your daughter, brother, monkeys uncle addressed myself in such a manner. I would inform security post haste of your anti social behavior.
Perhaps we should all listen carefully to this posts tone. 2 children were abused are now adults and emotionally very damaged. It seems to me. In an attempt to steer the discussion to a particular point of view. What has actually ocurred is a perfect illustration of the very reason. Parents should keep thier children at an arms length. Why young children should be supervised at all times.
And as parents further affirm our actions as your child's most important advocate.
But he double LL... The thread referanced here is very obnoxious. Thank goodness it's locked. I agree with Gail on this one small minded bigotry.
As for a grown woman yelling at young children for using the ladies room. This is maddening and absurd. Using your own misfortune, fate whatever to give your self a free pass at another. I think not. If you/your daughter, brother, monkeys uncle addressed myself in such a manner. I would inform security post haste of your anti social behavior.
Perhaps we should all listen carefully to this posts tone. 2 children were abused are now adults and emotionally very damaged. It seems to me. In an attempt to steer the discussion to a particular point of view. What has actually ocurred is a perfect illustration of the very reason. Parents should keep thier children at an arms length. Why young children should be supervised at all times.
And as parents further affirm our actions as your child's most important advocate.
4greatboys
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As for the dressing room stuff I can see the point if its an open area. I dont even like changing clothes in front of people I dont know. When we hit water parks we all just wear our bathing suits under our clothes, take off our shorts and stuff at the locker, put our stuff in our locker and go on our merry way. When we leave just throw our shorts back on and go.
Hi, trishy!
Actually, the way your spouse handles it is the way that is recommended by all of the safety experts. There is an excellent book called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker that talks about this exact thing. Predators approach others because that is how they find their victims.
It is not enough to just haul our children into restrooms with us, as we are then failing at what is our most important job as a parent...teaching our children how to protect themselves for those times when we are not around. He says to teach children to approach mothers or grandmothers, as that is something that even a very young child can figure out. Since the vast majority of molestation happens by family and friends(sigh), it does nothing to protect our children from that, but we can reduce the already extremely low risk to almost nothing by teaching our children who is likely to be safe to approach for assistance.
When our son was young, I would wait around a public restroom (not at rest stops which are more dangerous for a bunch of reasons that he discusses in the book) and wait for a father with children and ask him to keep an eye on my son. No one ever said no(smile) and of course I would wait right outside of the restroom. He (our son) would learn by watching me pick out a "dad" (or grandfather with grandkids) how to assess an individual in case he needed help.
Taking kids into the restroom is a quick fix, but it doesn't solve the problem of how to teach our children to be safe when we are not around. If they don't ever get to practice when they are younger, I can pretty much guarantee you that once the reach the "I know everything because I'm a teenager" age(smile), they won't have a clue as to how to keep themselves safe.
The book is excellent and it taught me so much about what is really dangerous, what is not particularly dangerous and how to teach my children to handle different situations.
Actually, the way your spouse handles it is the way that is recommended by all of the safety experts. There is an excellent book called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker that talks about this exact thing. Predators approach others because that is how they find their victims.
It is not enough to just haul our children into restrooms with us, as we are then failing at what is our most important job as a parent...teaching our children how to protect themselves for those times when we are not around. He says to teach children to approach mothers or grandmothers, as that is something that even a very young child can figure out. Since the vast majority of molestation happens by family and friends(sigh), it does nothing to protect our children from that, but we can reduce the already extremely low risk to almost nothing by teaching our children who is likely to be safe to approach for assistance.
When our son was young, I would wait around a public restroom (not at rest stops which are more dangerous for a bunch of reasons that he discusses in the book) and wait for a father with children and ask him to keep an eye on my son. No one ever said no(smile) and of course I would wait right outside of the restroom. He (our son) would learn by watching me pick out a "dad" (or grandfather with grandkids) how to assess an individual in case he needed help.
Taking kids into the restroom is a quick fix, but it doesn't solve the problem of how to teach our children to be safe when we are not around. If they don't ever get to practice when they are younger, I can pretty much guarantee you that once the reach the "I know everything because I'm a teenager" age(smile), they won't have a clue as to how to keep themselves safe.
The book is excellent and it taught me so much about what is really dangerous, what is not particularly dangerous and how to teach my children to handle different situations.
trishy
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That is an especially interesting point - thanks for your insight. The men's restrooms have the urinals which expose young eyes to a great deal more than a restroom with stalls only, too; which is the argument dh always uses - although one could use some sort of cover for those curious eyes in an emergency.
I wonder what Mr. Becker feels is the appropriate age to allow boys and girls into public restrooms with, let's face it, (nice) strangers? Does he give a recommendation? I'm curious if it's the same age for both.
debster812
<font color=blue>DIS Earth Angel!<br><font color=0
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Figaro--you bring up some GREAT points. For almost as long as he was old enough to understand, I have been drilling into DS, that if he ever gets lost, while we are out, he is to find a Police Officer, a Fireman, or a 'Momma with a baby (or kids). These are his safe strangers. I am going to have to check out that book, it sounds very enlightening.
BTW he is 6 and he still comes into the ladies room with me, when DH is not with us.
BTW he is 6 and he still comes into the ladies room with me, when DH is not with us.
trishy, he recommends starting to teach our children to go into public restrooms with others as soon as kids are able to toilet themselves consistently and follow directions because kids need as much practice as possible. Starting out with relatively quiet and safe bathrooms at a small local store and giving them lots and lots of practice. He comes right out and says that the kids that are in the most danger are the ones that have never had this practice because the parents just take them with them, assuming that at some point there is a magic safe age that kids will "know" how to keep themselves safe(sigh).
The book can be really difficult to read, because he is very matter of fact and dissects the parenting failures that have helped lead to murders and molestations. One of his main points is that we have to learn to trust our own instincts about people and we have to teach our children how to have those kinds of instincts, as they are not just going to be born with them. It really is a must read, at least in my experience, because it is focused on the real dangers and how to keep ourselves and our children safe.
(I gave my copy to my sister when her kids were little, so I don't have it any more, so I am going by memory, and I've reached the age when I sometimes think I have only one dangling brain cell left!)(smile)
The book can be really difficult to read, because he is very matter of fact and dissects the parenting failures that have helped lead to murders and molestations. One of his main points is that we have to learn to trust our own instincts about people and we have to teach our children how to have those kinds of instincts, as they are not just going to be born with them. It really is a must read, at least in my experience, because it is focused on the real dangers and how to keep ourselves and our children safe.
(I gave my copy to my sister when her kids were little, so I don't have it any more, so I am going by memory, and I've reached the age when I sometimes think I have only one dangling brain cell left!)(smile)
dawgfan
from georgia ya'll
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Hi! I am a Chief Parole Officer. I have dealt with Child Molesters and predators for years. The latest points on this thread are excellent an should be heeded with small children. Men are most typically the offenders here. Women very rarely commit any type of sex crime and it is almost unheard of to have one engage in child molestation. The victims are most often young boys, not girls, however girls are not "off the menu". I teach my children carefully about this subject. It is sometimes scary for them to hear as they seem to want to believe that all people are essentially good (wish this were true) and do not like to hear that there are "bad people" out there. If seperated from us, I tell my children to look for a mommy, not just a woman, but a woman with children. They are not to talk to any strangers but this type of stranger is a safe stranger. They are still to be careful here. Of course you never know how they will react when something actually happens.
Figaro-You say to trust your instincts. That is good but realize that most child molesters are very "normal". They maintain a very neighborly, fatherly, boy next door appearance. That is part of the personna. That is a tool they use to come in under the radar. Vigilance is key and a good dose of fear and paranoia is not a bad thing here. I have seen parents completely lose track of kids while on vacation in a strange place with no assistance nearby. They should be on guard but seem to be somewhat nieve as to who may be out watching and waiting for an opportunity. They don't call them predators for nothing. They hang out in certain areas where they are most likely to see what they want to see ...kids (like McDonalds, Church, WDW). An offender does not necessarily have to touch a child to "re offend". Also they can have contact with a child and be fully clothed (sitting on a lap, give a hug) yet "re offend". In these instances it is the thought process and fantasy of the event that is the offense. It is usually a precursor to more intense activity. In those events the child may not even know they were a victim.
Figaro-You say to trust your instincts. That is good but realize that most child molesters are very "normal". They maintain a very neighborly, fatherly, boy next door appearance. That is part of the personna. That is a tool they use to come in under the radar. Vigilance is key and a good dose of fear and paranoia is not a bad thing here. I have seen parents completely lose track of kids while on vacation in a strange place with no assistance nearby. They should be on guard but seem to be somewhat nieve as to who may be out watching and waiting for an opportunity. They don't call them predators for nothing. They hang out in certain areas where they are most likely to see what they want to see ...kids (like McDonalds, Church, WDW). An offender does not necessarily have to touch a child to "re offend". Also they can have contact with a child and be fully clothed (sitting on a lap, give a hug) yet "re offend". In these instances it is the thought process and fantasy of the event that is the offense. It is usually a precursor to more intense activity. In those events the child may not even know they were a victim.
Dakota_Lynn
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The thread that many of you are referring to on the debate board was about older boys going into a women's changing room, not taking them into the woman's bathroom. I just wanted to clarify that. There's a difference between a preteen boy going to the bathroom in a closed stall and a going into a locker room full of naked woman.
That aside, I'm also against preteen boys in the women's bathrooms. You want to protect your boys, and that is certainly reasonable. But the sad truth is that boys as young as eight and nine years old have committed acts of sexual aggression. This I know because I heard it directly from one of our city prosecuters. I had expressed shock because a preteen boy had molested my friends daughter, and he told me that boys even younger than eleven and twelve have commited sexual assaults. The youngest he had on record was seven.
I don't object to a six or possibly even a seven year old boy in a woman's bathroom. But you need to understand something...I don't know you or your sons. When you bring an 11 or 12 year old boy into the woman's room and my 12 year old daughter is there, I don't know if your son is the type who will harm my child. Some 11 and 12 year old boys are taller than myself (I'm 5'7") and look like young men. That's pretty intimidating to a child...and maybe even an adult woman. If you're in the stall doing your thing, can you absolutely guarantee me that he won't peek in at my daugther? And yes, voyeurism is a crime that involves a victim. It's not just innocent peeking...not when it involves a 12 year old child who is menstruating for the first time and doesn't want a male peer starting at her! Can you tell me with 100% certainty that he won't inappropriately touch a five year old who is trying to wash her hands while her mother is in the stall?
I'm sure that most, if not all the boys of the parents on this board are decent kids. But the bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot of boys that age who are not decent. Please keep in mind that people don't just become sexual predators when they reach the age of 16, 20, or 25. In the vast majority of cases, the aggression, be it physical or sexual, starts at a fairly young age. You can't tell me it's safe to allow 10 or 12 year old boy in the girl's bathroom. It may be safe with YOUR ten or twelve year old boy, but you can't assure me that it's safe with all of them. Taking sons into the women's bathrooms may relieve the fears of the mother of the preteen boys, but it creates a whole new set of fears for the mothers of the young girls. That's just not a fair or reasonable solution to the problem. I sympathize with your problems, but I just don't think creating problems for other people is the answer.
That aside, I'm also against preteen boys in the women's bathrooms. You want to protect your boys, and that is certainly reasonable. But the sad truth is that boys as young as eight and nine years old have committed acts of sexual aggression. This I know because I heard it directly from one of our city prosecuters. I had expressed shock because a preteen boy had molested my friends daughter, and he told me that boys even younger than eleven and twelve have commited sexual assaults. The youngest he had on record was seven.
I don't object to a six or possibly even a seven year old boy in a woman's bathroom. But you need to understand something...I don't know you or your sons. When you bring an 11 or 12 year old boy into the woman's room and my 12 year old daughter is there, I don't know if your son is the type who will harm my child. Some 11 and 12 year old boys are taller than myself (I'm 5'7") and look like young men. That's pretty intimidating to a child...and maybe even an adult woman. If you're in the stall doing your thing, can you absolutely guarantee me that he won't peek in at my daugther? And yes, voyeurism is a crime that involves a victim. It's not just innocent peeking...not when it involves a 12 year old child who is menstruating for the first time and doesn't want a male peer starting at her! Can you tell me with 100% certainty that he won't inappropriately touch a five year old who is trying to wash her hands while her mother is in the stall?
I'm sure that most, if not all the boys of the parents on this board are decent kids. But the bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot of boys that age who are not decent. Please keep in mind that people don't just become sexual predators when they reach the age of 16, 20, or 25. In the vast majority of cases, the aggression, be it physical or sexual, starts at a fairly young age. You can't tell me it's safe to allow 10 or 12 year old boy in the girl's bathroom. It may be safe with YOUR ten or twelve year old boy, but you can't assure me that it's safe with all of them. Taking sons into the women's bathrooms may relieve the fears of the mother of the preteen boys, but it creates a whole new set of fears for the mothers of the young girls. That's just not a fair or reasonable solution to the problem. I sympathize with your problems, but I just don't think creating problems for other people is the answer.
Hi, dawgfan!
Gavin de Becker talks about that exact thing (how pedophiles look very, very normal) and how of course, the greatest risk to our children is with people that we know at least casually, not strangers. He does say that almost always after a pedophile is caught people will talk about how they wondered about this person, as there was always something that didn't quite ring true, and that is what Gavin de Becker encourages us to listen to...that little voice that doesn't make any rational sense, but on a feeling level is giving us information that we need to pay attention to.
I'm trying to remember how he put it...it was something like our primitive brain recognizes predators because it is hard wired into us, but our rational brain will over-ride this and we need to learn to pay attention to that instead of ignoring it. And again, teaching our children to approach someone for help not to wait for someone to approach them because that is what predators do.
Thank you for your very helpful and great information post!
Gavin de Becker talks about that exact thing (how pedophiles look very, very normal) and how of course, the greatest risk to our children is with people that we know at least casually, not strangers. He does say that almost always after a pedophile is caught people will talk about how they wondered about this person, as there was always something that didn't quite ring true, and that is what Gavin de Becker encourages us to listen to...that little voice that doesn't make any rational sense, but on a feeling level is giving us information that we need to pay attention to.
I'm trying to remember how he put it...it was something like our primitive brain recognizes predators because it is hard wired into us, but our rational brain will over-ride this and we need to learn to pay attention to that instead of ignoring it. And again, teaching our children to approach someone for help not to wait for someone to approach them because that is what predators do.
Thank you for your very helpful and great information post!
My ds is 7 now so I can't say if I will be taking him into the bathroom at 11 or 12. He has a few hidden disabilities and if I still don't feel safe for him to go alone at that age, he will not.
Yes, I can guarantee the child in the washroom is not going to touch your daughter or anyone elses because he is in their with his mother. We are not talking about boys going into the womans washroom unsupervised. I also don't think there is a comparison to the embarrasement of someone being peaked at and a child being molested.
Yes, I can guarantee the child in the washroom is not going to touch your daughter or anyone elses because he is in their with his mother. We are not talking about boys going into the womans washroom unsupervised. I also don't think there is a comparison to the embarrasement of someone being peaked at and a child being molested.
MICKEY88
<font color=purple>if you keep falling off of the
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I believe as strongly as anyone that as parents we must protect our children, however I also believe that adults have the right to expected privacy..
if safety takes priority over a persons right to privacy, and people should get over their modesty,
then I suppose that everyone who feels this way would have no problem if the next time they attended a public event they were told that everyone must remove all clothing to assure the safety of all attending..this would make it impossible to conceal any weapons...
or perhaps schools in order to assure the safety of their students could require the students to disrobe before entering..
what does it matter if teenagers sit in the class minus their clothes....at least they would be safe ..no more guns smuggled into schools...
and perhaps we should strike the voyeurism laws from the book..after all the pervert peering in your window as you dress is only looking...???
tell the thousands of women in therapy because of hidden cameras or peeping toms, that they were not harmed, nor violated..they can get over it...
if safety takes priority over a persons right to privacy, and people should get over their modesty,
then I suppose that everyone who feels this way would have no problem if the next time they attended a public event they were told that everyone must remove all clothing to assure the safety of all attending..this would make it impossible to conceal any weapons...
or perhaps schools in order to assure the safety of their students could require the students to disrobe before entering..
what does it matter if teenagers sit in the class minus their clothes....at least they would be safe ..no more guns smuggled into schools...
and perhaps we should strike the voyeurism laws from the book..after all the pervert peering in your window as you dress is only looking...???
tell the thousands of women in therapy because of hidden cameras or peeping toms, that they were not harmed, nor violated..they can get over it...
4greatboys
DIS Legend
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We are just talking about taking our young boys to the bathroom and then leaving. Most of the restrooms I have been in have stalls and if there is a line is is usually formed against the wall across from the stalls not right outside the stall door. It would be very hard to peep in on someone. Most boys I have seen go in , use the restroom and come right back out. The only boys I have ever seen trying to look in a stall are usually very young, I'd say about 3 or 4 and its not just exclusive to boys I have seen young girls do the same.
In many cases safety does take a priority over privacy.
In many cases safety does take a priority over privacy.
twinmomplus2
DIS Veteran
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Most of this debate centers on young boys being taken into the washroom. Parents are discussing taking the child with them. Supervised by the mom in the washrrom. Noone is suggesting that they should go in alone. That as well would be negligent on the part of the parent. A pevert/scumbag could just as easily wait in the womans washroom stalls. The differance is mom is with the child.
As far as the changing room. That is a whole differant story... If you are not comfortable with your childs safety, Take the clothing home and if it does not fit. take it back. Of course teen/pre teen boys should not be in a womens changing room.
This whole big brother right to privacy thing is taking the horse before the cart. I have yet to hear of a 8-10 year old sexual predator, scoping out victims in ladies rooms with his mom. However you consistently hear these bathroom stories of men in the men's wash room.
As far as the changing room. That is a whole differant story... If you are not comfortable with your childs safety, Take the clothing home and if it does not fit. take it back. Of course teen/pre teen boys should not be in a womens changing room.
This whole big brother right to privacy thing is taking the horse before the cart. I have yet to hear of a 8-10 year old sexual predator, scoping out victims in ladies rooms with his mom. However you consistently hear these bathroom stories of men in the men's wash room.
FreshTressa
<font color=blue>BL II - Blue Team<br><font color=
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One more question...
Say you have your 8,9,10, or so year old son with you and YOU have to go to the bathroom.
Do you leave him outside the bathroom ALONE while you go take care of your business?
Say you have your 8,9,10, or so year old son with you and YOU have to go to the bathroom.
Do you leave him outside the bathroom ALONE while you go take care of your business?
GAIL HAYDEN
DVC Member since '92
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do tell, how many commit these crimes with their mothers in the same room? If the boys were going in alone, I could see your point, but, if they are there with their moms, your point is really not too valid.
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