Check my TIW math and logic please!

[TT4Dis]

First, do I have to figure out exactly how much each meal will cost down to picking the entree and dessert each person would order to get the true analysis right or can I estimate? Here is our situation, I am planning to book a room only reservation for next year and am hoping for either an AP discount or will book a package if that's the best deal at the time.

Our party will be my sister and her 4 kids (7,5,2,1) and myself for an 8 night trip. If we did a package and got DDP our costs would be approx. $1220 because we would automatically have tips added. We would only do DDP, not QS, because she wants to be able to feed her two little ones for "free" at a TS meal once a day and limit her OOP costs for them.

I estimated OOP at $120 per table service, $45 per counter service & $130 for snacks to equal $1450. If we paid OOP we would try to shave that down some.

I estimated TIW at $96/TS, didn't discount CS, +$130/snacks, +$75 for the card to equal $1333.

Even with TIW being a little higher, this is an approximation and I don't know that my sister and I will eat an entree and dessert at 8 different meals. We are not hearty eaters and considering we are going in June it may be too hot to eat too much. I just wanted to gauge opinions on whether I have to know ahead of time each meal we would eat or can you make an educated decision with just estimates.

 

[Cafeen]

Typically, especially if you do more TS than CS, TiW is going to come out ahead of DDP. Especially true in 2012 (when the margins are very slim for DDP savings, doable, but slim).

Your rough estimates are decent and reasonable, so I see no reason why you should toil over deeper numbers when those will work just fine for what you're looking for. The closer the numbers are to accurate, the closer to accurate the analysis will be, but for a general feel, those estimates work just fine.

If you're going to only order like the plan suggests, including entree + dessert + soft drink, then it may make more sense to stay on that side. However, as you mentioned, your sister may not desire to do that, and if you don't think you will all the time either, then TiW will be the way to go.

 

[RFrank9504]

Is TIW worth it, we are paying OOP. my AP room only rate was awesome and the AP dining rate was $820.00 more-for 2 of us thats is CRAZY. We booked CL so we have breakfast and snacks...so we were thinking TIW for lunch and dinner, but I see its 20% off, plus in small print an 18% gratuity charge for all transactions...exactly where is the savings and please check my logic. Maybe I just dont understand it.
Also my DH said we should get a 10% off for using our AP at a TS, is that correct?

 

[aubriee]

Is TIW worth it, we are paying OOP. my AP room only rate was awesome and the AP dining rate was $820.00 more-for 2 of us thats is CRAZY. We booked CL so we have breakfast and snacks...so we were thinking TIW for lunch and dinner, but I see its 20% off, plus in small print an 18% gratuity charge for all transactions...exactly where is the savings and please check my logic. Maybe I just dont understand it.
Also my DH said we should get a 10% off for using our AP at a TS, is that correct?

You'd be paying 18-20% anyway for the tips (whether you are on the DDP or use the TiW card or use the AP discount or just pay full price for all meals), so the 18% gratuity charge doesn't really play into your numbers. With the TiW you get 20% off most TS restaurants and a few CS restaurants (food courts in the Values and POFQ and at AK). TiW is accepted at alot of restaurants that don't accept the DDP (all the restaurants at Swan/Dolphin, Bistro de Paris, House of Blues, Paradiso 37, Fultons, Bongos, Portobellos, Victoria and Albert's, etc). TiW card is accepted at more restaurants than the AP discount is--all resort TS restaurants, all parks TS restaurants (except Yak & Yeti and RFC at AK), and all TS restaurants at DTD (except RFC), and the discount is 20% off whereas the AP discount is usually 10% and is frequently only for lunch Mon-Fri. The TiW is always for meals all day seven days a week. There may be some black out days during major holidays though.

Just an AP would give you 10% off a just a few TS restaurants--House of Blues (20% at lunch and 10% at dinner), Cap'n Jacks 10% (lunch only), 20% at Portobello's, 10% at RFC, 10% at WGP 15% at Paradiso 37, 10% at T Rex (lunch only Mon-Fri), and 10% for lunch only Mon-Fri at a few Epcot restaurants (Biergarten, Marrakesh, Teppan Edo, Nine Dragons, San Angel Inn, and Tokyo Dining). You can also get 10% off breakfast at Hollywood & Vine, 10% off an entree at Yak & Yeti, and 10% off ESPN (Mon-Fri lunch only), Kouzzina (breakfast only), Sanaa (lunch only), The Wave (Breakfast and lunch only), Trail's End, GF Cafe (breakfast only), Olivia's, Turf Club (lunch only), WCC (Breakfast and lunch), and Cap'n Grill's (lunch only).

If you eat at alot of TS restaurants the TiW will pay for itself in less than a week. Basically to recoup the $75.00 it costs you need to spend at least $375.00 at restaurants that accept it, and the rest of the discounts for that week are just gravy. Also the TiW card is usually good for 13 months, so if you go more than once a year all those discounts you get with it on subsequent trips are also just gravy. Even as a frequent solo traveler who prefers TS over CS, I can make it pay for itself in one trip. I eat at alot of restaurants that don't do the AP discount and since I prefer appetizers to alot of desserts it works better for me than the DDP. I can eat what I want, where I want and am not tied down to restaurants that only accept the DDP or AP discount. The TiW card also gives that same 20% off on alcoholic beverages, which you can't get with the DDP.

 

[TDC Nala]

I'm moving this to the main dining board, as TIW is not a Disney Dining Plan. Please remember, discussion of tipping procedures is limited to the Tipping Information sticky thread.

Also my DH said we should get a 10% off for using our AP at a TS, is that correct?

Not at all TS, and sometimes it's only good on weekdays and/or lunch. Plus, alcholic beverages are not discounted (like they are on TIW).

 

[sharadoc]

I think the TIW works best with more adults than children. With 4 children, you will be getting minimal savings at best on your trip, and if you don't plan to go again within the 13 month window, you won't come out ahead.

Children eat "for free" off the adult plate, they don't get separate food so will that be enough for them? I'm sure it will for the 1 year old, LOL. If you plan to do buffets to cover the free children, then the cost of those meals are pretty high and the discount will really help if you're paying OOP.

I think in your situation, the DDP is just as good.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Is TIW worth it, we are paying OOP. my AP room only rate was awesome and the AP dining rate was $820.00 more-for 2 of us thats is CRAZY. We booked CL so we have breakfast and snacks...so we were thinking TIW for lunch and dinner, but I see its 20% off, plus in small print an 18% gratuity charge for all transactions...exactly where is the savings and please check my logic. Maybe I just dont understand it.
Also my DH said we should get a 10% off for using our AP at a TS, is that correct?

Tables in Wonderland really can save you a lot of money. Especially if you enjoy signature meals and table service lunches.

Here is how TIW works for our family.

The card is $75 and is good for 1 year from the date of purchase.

We purchased our most recent card in late Oct 2010 and used it for Oct 2010, May 2011 and will use it on our upcoming trip in Oct 2011.

The best way for me to illustrate the savings is by using our "big ticket" meals, so I'll use Victoria & Albert's as an example.

1 meal at V&A = $125/person plus $60/person for wine pairings. For our family of three that is a SUBTOTAL of $555.

Victoria & Albert's is an automatic 20% gratuity when using TIW. So I guess you are asking, where is the savings?

From that $555, a 20% gratuity is $111.

Now, take the $555 and subtract 20%. $555 - $111 = $444.

Now, add the 6.5% tax to the $444. $444 x 1.065 = $472.86.

Now, add the $111 gratuity to the $472.86 taxed total. $111 + $472.86 = $583.86.

Here is where the savings come in. WITHOUT Tables i n Wonderland the gratuity would still be around $111 for the level of service at V&A.

So we take the original subtotal of $555 and add the tax. $555 x 1.065 = $591.08.

Now, we add the $111 gratuity to $591.08. $111 + $591.08 = $702.08.

Without Tables in Wonderland the meal costs $702.08

WITH Tables in Wonderland the meal costs $583.86

Savings = $118.22

Even when you subtract the TIW fee of $75 you still save $43.22

In the course of three 8-day trips we could dine at the following:
2 @ V&A (Cost $586 / Savings $118)
5 @ Signatures (Cost $250 / Savings $53)
15 @ TS Casual (Cost $150 / Savings $32)
11 @ TS Lunch (Cost $60 / Savings $13)

That is a total of $5332, and a savings of $1124 or 21%

 

[Anna114]

Is TIW worth it, we are paying OOP. my AP room only rate was awesome and the AP dining rate was $820.00 more-for 2 of us thats is CRAZY. We booked CL so we have breakfast and snacks...so we were thinking TIW for lunch and dinner, but I see its 20% off, plus in small print an 18% gratuity charge for all transactions...exactly where is the savings and please check my logic. Maybe I just dont understand it.
Also my DH said we should get a 10% off for using our AP at a TS, is that correct?

We did the math for our upcoming trip and the ddp was going to cost us $880 to get a package but we already have AP's so we went with the room only and will pay out of pocket and get the tiw card. It works out cheaper for us and I certainly don't need all of the food on the ddp.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Here is a working example, using $100.00 as the original bill to make the math show up easily. Note this is for Table Service. At Counter Service there is no gratuity added.

100.00 - Original Menu Amount
*20.00 - Discount
*80.00 - Subtotal
*18.00 - Gratuity Added based on $100
**5.20 - Sales Tax on $80
103.20 - Final amount charged, takes into consideration discount, gratuity and tax.

Without TiW Discount (and still figuring 18% Gratuity)

100.00 - Original Menu Amount
*18.00 - Gratuity
**6.50 - Sales Tax on $100
124.50 - Total

$21.30 - Savings using TiW Card.

(Note - At Victoria and Albert's the added gratuity is 20% instead of 18%.)
* Ignore the asterisks; they are there only so the columns/numbers line up properly.

 

[bumbershoot]

If we did a package and got DDP our costs would be approx. $1220 because we would automatically have tips added. We would only do DDP, not QS, because she wants to be able to feed her two little ones for "free" at a TS meal once a day and limit her OOP costs for them.

Just making 120% sure...they'll add the tip amount to your bill, but the plan won't cover it. Just making sure that's known. I made a play reservation for 8 nights, 2 adults, 4 kids of the ages you mentioned, and noticed the plan was 1064.96 more than a room-only, and 20% of that brings it up to a bit over the 1200 you mention, so I *think* you know this, but I wanted to make sure you knew.

But of course you wouldn't pay that extra amount on all meals, just the TS ones.

And as someone else mentioned, unless you're going to a buffet, the food for the littlest ones is coming from other peoples' plates, and that would be the exact same if you're eating quick service. Buffet is where sister could get some extra food to put on her plate to let them eat.


In comparing the TIW and DDP I find it nearly impossible to not venture into forbidden territory. It makes it difficult! Just remember, if you were to order entree, dessert, drink, while on the DDP, those costs are covered under the plan, BUT you've increased the total on the check, which increases your, um, out of pocket costs. If you ordered all of that, while your sister ordered just an entree, you would get to pull out more cash from your wallet than she would at the end of the meal...make sense?

If you do peruse the menus, notice how many times you think "ooh that appetizer looks tasty enough to eat as my meal", and remember that TIW will cover that appetizer, but it would be out of pocket if you're on the dining plan.


Also, check out the TIW pages on allear and wdwinfo, because you can see that there are some QS places covered. Food courts at the values, and all? most? QS at Animal Kingdom, most definitely under the TIW plan.



We had 2 adults and one 6 year old using TIW for a total of 10 days, and we already went into pure-discount-land. I don't think you guys will have a problem clearing that $75 mark.