Cheap People

[TwinsinCA]

It is harder to serve a table of 8 - then 2, of 4.

Why? I'd be interested in specifics. You are still serving 8 people. What difference does it make if they are sitting at two tables or one? If anything it would seem almost easier to have them all together.

If you have 4 tables at a time and one seats 8 does that 8 seater still count as one of your four even if the capacity is double? So effectively you are really working 5 tables? In that scenario I can see it being more difficult. But if having 8 at one table means you get one table less, I don't see the big deal.

I don't think being in a group means you are going to tip poorly -- I think the problem comes when people are trying to figure out what they owe for their meal and the tax and the tip and people don't kick in enough. If every party within the group had their OWN check I really think you'd cut down on that kind of thing. I just don't feel that dining with a group means you should have to give up your right to tip as you see fit.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I still cannot believe that some of you still have this train of thought.

I was on Disney Message Boards back in 1996 - and there were people like you then too.

It IS assumed I will be tipped unless *I* (not the kitchen, not the busser, not the food runner) *I* mess up. Its not a reward. A reward??? Are you serious??

Its folks like you (general you) that make serving such a joy. We see you coming from a mile away. You run us until we're ready to drop, and then leave us 5%.

Dictionary.com

tip3 tipped, tip·ping.
–noun 1. a small present of money given directly to someone for performing a service or menial task; gratuity: He gave the waiter a dollar as a tip.
2. a piece of private or secret information, as for use in betting, speculating, or writing a news story: a tip from a bookie.
3. a useful hint or idea; a basic, practical fact: tips on painting.
–verb (used with object) 4. to give a gratuity to.
–verb (used without object) 5. to give a gratuity: She tipped lavishly.

gra·tu·i·ty
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.


No matter what, a server is not entitled to a tip. As stated by several family members that spent many years as servers: A tip is a bonus. It is not to be expected.

It is the attitude that expects to be tipped no matter what that ticks me off.
I never run my server around and don't expect them to wait on only me. But, I do expect a server to do more than just take my order, deliver and completely disappear until they bring the bill.


When a person answers to the restaurant and it's manager, has a specific dress code to work there, they they work for the restaurant. Not the patron. A server should expect no more than they actually get paid from the restaurant. If you don't get paid enough there, then either get another job or have the laws changed.

Oh. When I do go out and get good service, I do tip. And it's more than 10%.

They are.

Thats what full service is.

How much is entirely up to you.

No they are not entitled to it. If they were, then they wouldn't even be getting the small amount they do get from the restaurant.

Full service is included in the restaurant pricing. Tips are extra.

I'm a server I make 3.33 a hour. Yes That is all I make. You can;t count on any other money. 3.33 is a guarnteed. Tips aren't

I would never ever leave less then 15% for a tip. I don't care how bad the server is EVERYONE has bad days

I've worked with the public in various ways. Including working at a K-Mart during Christmas and when it was closing. Even if I had a bad day, my customers would not know it. I don't bring my outside life in to work with me. Even if I had a rather bad customer who as screaming at me (I had a customer scream at me because she couldn't pay only 32 cents for a shirt), the next customer would get a smile, a polite hello, welcome, whatever and I would serve them to the best of my ability without an attitude. If they hadn't seen the previous customer, they would never have known it happened by my attitude.

If you can't keep a customer from knowing you're having a bad day, then you don't belong in customer service.

Basic customer service is your job. Anything above and beyond that is when you should get a tip, but as you said, isn't guaranteed.
If you don't like the fact that you get so little pay from the restaurant, get another job or get the laws changed in your state.

Youre absolutely right, it should.

The thorn in my side is the 'reward' and that they dont have to tip at all, because theyve paid for their purchase. Its a reward. That, IMO, is absurd. It truly is. Full service is expected to tip. Its almost playing dumb, to say otherwise.

Story - I had a 12 top one night. Everything was hunky dory- they wanted their checks all seperate though - end of the meal came and before I dropped the check, we had a policy to get the manager to do one of those "How was everything" - because we'd be adding 18% on, and didnt want any suprises, right?

Manager asks - everyone is thrilled! She was great! Wonderful! Peachy!

I split the check up - 18% added onto each one. I spent a good 2 hours with them, and did a great job. They said so themselves.

They get their bills, and theyre FURIOUS it's been added on. It was an 8 or more policy - it's on the menu. But they all had seperate checks, was their reasoning they shouldnt have it tacked on. Ohhhh - okay...

So, I get the manager, he asks - I thought you said everything was great! They said it was - but they were NOT tipping 18%. They took up 2 of my big tables for 2+ hours.... but they had no intention of paying me for that.

That manager paid me out of HIS pocket that night.

*THAT* is what servers deal with and it still burns me up, after Ive been long gone from the serving world.

Its not a reward.

Honestly, I don't see much difference between servering 1 table of 12 and 6 tables of 2. It's the same number of people, the same amount of food, drinks, etc.
In fact, if the party is ordering bottles of wine and getting free bread and salad, you're probably carrying out less stuff to them. Generally, 2 people aren't going to eat an entire bowl of salad and drink an entire bottle of wine. those would generally those would serve 4 people. So, instead of 6 bottles of wine and 6 bowls of salad you would only be serving 3 of each.

I have been a part of large groups because of my large family a lot in my life. I've never noticed that we've been more demanding on the servers than if we weren't in a group.

And this is exactly the entitlement attitude I referenced in my previous post.

No matter how entitled you think servers are to tips, it is a payment based on the quality of service provided.

If a server provides sub-par service, they will receive a sub-par tip.

If I am paying a server $10, $20, $50 or more an hour, I expect service commensurate with that payment.

There are no different expectations for servers than any other paid employee in any other industry.

Not to mention the fact that they are working more than 1 table at a time. if they worked 5 tables in 1 hour and only got $5 per table, they're still making $25 for that hour.

I agree with you. And it is a sense of entitlement. I knew I had to work hard and be good at it, to be paid.

However, have you missed all the 'I didnt force them to be a server' attitudes? There are many people who dont tip - at all. And IMO - going into a full service restaurant, with no intention of tipping is stealing from that server. You took up their table, you took up their time - and theyre tipping out and paying taxes on your sale. Youre making them pay for you to be there.

Nope. I took up the restaurant's table and time.
If you don't like the laws, then work to get them changed.

I do believe that everyone should make at least minimum wage. And if there were people lobbying to get that to happen, I would back it 100%. But all in all, servers still make a heck of a lot more money than I do working in an office.

 

[kimluvswdw]

Why? I'd be interested in specifics. You are still serving 8 people. What difference does it make if they are sitting at two tables or one? If anything it would seem almost easier to have them all together.

If you have 4 tables at a time and one seats 8 does that 8 seater still count as one of your four even if the capacity is double? So effectively you are really working 5 tables? In that scenario I can see it being more difficult. But if having 8 at one table means you get one table less, I don't see the big deal.

I don't think being in a group means you are going to tip poorly -- I think the problem comes when people are trying to figure out what they owe for their meal and the tax and the tip and people don't kick in enough. If every party within the group had their OWN check I really think you'd cut down on that kind of thing. I just don't feel that dining with a group means you should have to give up your right to tip as you see fit.

I had 8 people at the sit down restaurant the other night. There were 4 seperate checks at the table. I worked my but off for these people and they left me a total of $10 on the table. The bill was way over $100. I think it was crappy that the good service that I gave them was only worth $2.50 a piece. I even heard the life stories of all of them and I smiled the entire time. Based on the amount of the total bill, the tip should have been around $20 or more. Funny thing is, I had to pay taxes on the total of the sale. After I paid the tip out I made alot less than I should have. That is unfair and it is the reason that the restaurants put the automatic gratuity on a large group. The restaurant knows how hard we will have to work on a group that size and feels we should get paid for it.

On the flip side, if I gave poor service and the table discussed it with the manager or me then I can see reducing the automatic tip.

 

[declansdad]

I had 8 people at the sit down restaurant the other night. There were 4 seperate checks at the table. I worked my but off for these people and they left me a total of $10 on the table. The bill was way over $100. I think it was crappy that the good service that I gave them was only worth $2.50 a piece. I even heard the life stories of all of them and I smiled the entire time. Based on the amount of the total bill, the tip should have been around $20 or more. Funny thing is, I had to pay taxes on the total of the sale. After I paid the tip out I made alot less than I should have. That is unfair and it is the reason that the restaurants put the automatic gratuity on a large group. The restaurant knows how hard we will have to work on a group that size and feels we should get paid for it.

On the flip side, if I gave poor service and the table discussed it with the manager or me then I can see reducing the automatic tip.

I completely agree that you got shafted on the tip but what specifically makes one table of eight people harder than two tables of four?

 

[TwinsinCA]

I had 8 people at the sit down restaurant the other night. There were 4 seperate checks at the table. I worked my but off for these people and they left me a total of $10 on the table. The bill was way over $100. I think it was crappy that the good service that I gave them was only worth $2.50 a piece. I even heard the life stories of all of them and I smiled the entire time. Based on the amount of the total bill, the tip should have been around $20 or more. Funny thing is, I had to pay taxes on the total of the sale. After I paid the tip out I made alot less than I should have. That is unfair and it is the reason that the restaurants put the automatic gratuity on a large group. The restaurant knows how hard we will have to work on a group that size and feels we should get paid for it.

On the flip side, if I gave poor service and the table discussed it with the manager or me then I can see reducing the automatic tip.

How it is harder though than 4 tables of 2? Or two tables of 4? That is what I don't get. You will ALWAYS have people who tip poorly. Unfortunately this was one of those times. You might have had two tables of 4 instead, one tipped well and one stiffed you -- you'd still have the same end result. I don't want to use the word discrimination but I can't think of a better term -- it doesn't seem right to have different expectations of patrons based on the size of their group.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

My first job was delivering pizzas on a Marine base 25+ years ago. Horrible tippers! Ever since then I've tried to be a good tipper. If you get less than 20% from me you've really done a poor job. I am even more diligent in abiding by this now that times are hard for so many folks.

 

[mickeyboat]

How it is harder though than 4 tables of 2? Or two tables of 4? That is what I don't get.

Because your tables are generally all at different points in their service. Waitressing is about multi-tasking as efficiently as possible. When large groups are all at the same point in their service, it becomes more difficult to multi-task for your other tables.

Sometimes it is a matter of being thrown off your routine. You are used to having tables of 2 or 4, and know what tasks you can fit in at what point in the service.

You would have a similar issue if you had two tables of 4 seated at the same time. Most restaurants alternate table seatings so that no one waitperson has two tables seated at the same time.

When you double the size of your table, you double the time it takes at that table for each task - that means your other tables have to wait twice as long for each task.

It is also difficult for many kitchens to get larger orders out all at the same time.

And physically it is more difficult because in many restaurants tables of 8 are not standard, so tables are put together awkwardly, making it physically more complicated to service them.

I think it is REALLY hard to understand all that goes into waitressing unless you have done it.

Denae

 

[DeluxePrincess]

I think that a few of the servers here probably get low tips because of the entitlement mentality they most likely showcase while on the job. I tip and I tip VERY well. However, if someone who is supposed to be serving me comes across with a snotty attitude, the tip dips below the 20% that I have no problem leaving for good service. For example, I took an old friend of mine out to a nice establishment for lunch. The server asked SEVERAL times if we wanted a drink from the bar or a bottle of wine. We just were not in the mood. Each time we refused, the server look like we offended her. Yes, sorry that my order of ice water didn't drive up your sales bill. At some estasblishments, when you reject the bottle of wine, the servers are done with you. Those servers miss out on their good tip from me.

 

[declansdad]

Because your tables are generally all at different points in their service. Waitressing is about multi-tasking as efficiently as possible. When large groups are all at the same point in their service, it becomes more difficult to multi-task for your other tables.

Sometimes it is a matter of being thrown off your routine. You are used to having tables of 2 or 4, and know what tasks you can fit in at what point in the service.

You would have a similar issue if you had two tables of 4 seated at the same time. Most restaurants alternate table seatings so that no two waitstaff are have tables seated at the same time.

When you double the size of your table, you double the time it takes at that table for each task - that means your other tables have to wait twice as long for each task.

It is also difficult for many kitchens to get larger orders out all at the same time.

And physically it is more difficult because in many restaurants tables of 8 are not standard, so tables are put together awkwardly, making it physically more complicated to service them.

I think it is REALLY hard to understand all that goes into waitressing unless you have done it.

Denae

That makes sense. Thanks

 

[CathrynRose]

Because your tables are generally all at different points in their service. Waitressing is about multi-tasking as efficiently as possible. When large groups are all at the same point in their service, it becomes more difficult to multi-task for your other tables.

Sometimes it is a matter of being thrown off your routine. You are used to having tables of 2 or 4, and know what tasks you can fit in at what point in the service.

You would have a similar issue if you had two tables of 4 seated at the same time. Most restaurants alternate table seatings so that no two waitstaff are have tables seated at the same time.

When you double the size of your table, you double the time it takes at that table for each task - that means your other tables have to wait twice as long for each task.

It is also difficult for many kitchens to get larger orders out all at the same time.

And physically it is more difficult because in many restaurants tables of 8 are not standard, so tables are put together awkwardly, making it physically more complicated to service them.

I think it is REALLY hard to understand all that goes into waitressing unless you have done it.

Denae

 

[Pooh Girl 71]

We have a front restaurant that has a menu (no buffet) and then we have a restaurant that has the buffet/menu. Confusing, I know, but I alternate from one a night to the other. I will tell you that you work 10 times harder on the buffet side. I never would have thought that, but it is true. In the regular restaurant you write the order, bring food, and keep glasses full. In the buffet side you take drink orders, deliver menu items if needed, empty shell baskets, refill drinks, and clear plates as needed. The emptying of baskets, drink refills, and clearing of the plates is non stop. It is run run run on the buffet side, on the other side you bring the food and you can just stand around unless the drinks need refilled.


We do have bussers that clear the table after the people have gone, but it is up to the server to keep all the plates clear during the meal. You don't even do that in a regular place with no buffet.

Just curious...where do you work? We're always looking for a good restaurant at the beach.

 

[In a hurry]

At some estasblishments, when you reject the bottle of wine, the servers are done with you. Those servers miss out on their good tip from me.

I hate that! We are water drinkers at home, and oftentimes when we go out. When I get a snotty attitude about it, I start subtracting, also.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

You keep changing your story though. one minute you say that you should tip for good service, but then the next minute you say that no one should EXPECT a tip.............if people didn't expect a tip for doing a good job then why even bother?

Because it's the job they signed up to do. It's a customer service job. You should always do whatever job you do to the best of your ability.

It's this attitude of just do a bare minimum at work that has older generations shaking their heads at the younger ones. Alnd giving all of us a bad name.

I'd like to know, for those who have said that tipping is voluntary or should not be expected, how many of those posters have been servers before?

I have known several life-long servers who have said this.
In fact, every single one of my dad's 10 sisters has worked years as servers and all have said this multiple times. Especially to the younger generations. One of my aunts even ran and worked in her own restaurant for years before divorcing her husband and closing up.

I'm sorry but I find it very hard to believe that you took a job knowing full well what a servers hourly wage was and didn't expect tips!
Of course it's expected! Why else would you take a job that pays so poorly?

You take it as a chance of getting good tips. Getting poor or no tips is the chance you take when taking on that type of work.

It's not guaranteed money. if you rely of tips and suddenly don't get them, what happens? You get POed. But you have no one to blame but yourself for taking a chance. It's the same as gambling. You take a chance on spending that money to make more. It's not guaranteed.

 

[CathrynRose]

I find it fascinating that every server or former server actually posting - did - (in essense) expect tips, for quality service. They did not take a job to wait table, and clean and stock the entire restaurant for $3/hr. Well aware if they had a crappy attitude the tips would suffer, BUT IN GENERAL expected tips.

BUT... the friend of a friend of a sister in law's brother's cousin, who OWNED a place, worked for 20 years serving, etc etc - didnt expect them. They knew they would only make $3/hr and anything extra was just a huge suprise!!!

 

[hercamore]

My niece (a hairdresser) has said her customers are not tipping as well as they used to.

So, maybe it is in all service areas now that employees are seeing less tips.

Personally, do still tip 15-20% always.

My DH tips well no matter what. . Must have rubbed off on my DD because once she had placed an order for a pizza delivery, the pizza came, and she had no extra money for a tip she realized too late.

She told the deliver person she'd bring down an tip the next day to the pizza place and she brought $5 to the guy the next day! And she was a poor college student. .

herc.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

It's this attitude of just do a bare minimum at work that has older generations shaking their heads at the younger ones. Alnd giving all of us a bad name.

The reason people take serving jobs is for the tips. It is the reason I took the job at the restaurant and did not return to the grocery store kitchen where I worked last year. The money ended up not being good at all. With most jobs you know when you will be in and when you will be out. At the restaurant, they get me out of there as soon as possible. It has not been uncommon for me to have four or five tables the entire night. I quit my job today, and part of it was because of a lack of money. $40.00 a week because I am getting so few tables and people are tipping lousy does not pay my bills. I don't know a single person who can pay their rent utilities, and food on 3.30 an hour working at most four hours a day. We have to expect tips to at least a degree.

As others have pointed out numerous times, regardless of whether or not you tip me, I am being taxed on a percentage of that sale as part of my income, so you are stealing.

When I say I expect tips, that does not mean that I think I don't have to work hard. I expect to work hard and give you the best service possible to earn my wage. Everybody has bad days however, days when nothing goes right. I'm not talking about bringing your personal life into the restaurant, but just days when everything goes wrong. If you work in another job and you have a day like that, you get paid the same amount as you would on a stellar day. That is not true for servers, and that is indeed the risk I take as a server.

I also disagree that the entitlement attitude is a problem with our generation.
When I worked at Denny's, I was the youngest day server by at least twenty years. The other servers broke the rules, were lazy, and did practically nothing but expected the tip. I, on the other hand, had great performance reviews form the manager, was the only one trusted alone for breakfast, and was due for a raise when I returned from school (sadly they closed while I was at school.)

Every job, every generation, every demographic that you choose will have people who do the minimum (or less) to get by, and people who work their butts off to do the job to the best of their ability.

 

[kimluvswdw]

The reason people take serving jobs is for the tips. It is the reason I took the job at the restaurant and did not return to the grocery store kitchen where I worked last year. The money ended up not being good at all. With most jobs you know when you will be in and when you will be out. At the restaurant, they get me out of there as soon as possible. It has not been uncommon for me to have four or five tables the entire night. I quit my job today, and part of it was because of a lack of money. $40.00 a week because I am getting so few tables and people are tipping lousy does not pay my bills. I don't know a single person who can pay their rent utilities, and food on 3.30 an hour working at most four hours a day. We have to expect tips to at least a degree.

As others have pointed out numerous times, regardless of whether or not you tip me, I am being taxed on a percentage of that sale as part of my income, so you are stealing.

When I say I expect tips, that does not mean that I think I don't have to work hard. I expect to work hard and give you the best service possible to earn my wage. Everybody has bad days however, days when nothing goes right. I'm not talking about bringing your personal life into the restaurant, but just days when everything goes wrong. If you work in another job and you have a day like that, you get paid the same amount as you would on a stellar day. That is not true for servers, and that is indeed the risk I take as a server.

I also disagree that the entitlement attitude is a problem with our generation.
When I worked at Denny's, I was the youngest day server by at least twenty years. The other servers broke the rules, were lazy, and did practically nothing but expected the tip. I, on the other hand, had great performance reviews form the manager, was the only one trusted alone for breakfast, and was due for a raise when I returned from school (sadly they closed while I was at school.)

Every job, every generation, every demographic that you choose will have people who do the minimum (or less) to get by, and people who work their butts off to do the job to the best of their ability.

Well said, Bravo.

 

[kimluvswdw]

Tonight I had several people who tipped about 15% and it finally felt good to know I was appreciated for all the good service that I give people. There were still a few that were not as good, but that will happen.

 

[crazyme5kids]

I always tip at least 20% (after tax) even for poor service. The better the service the better my tip.

Why do I tip 20% even for bad service? I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Maybe they are having a really bad day, maybe they aren't feeling well, etc... etc...

 

[RabbitFood]

Tonight I had several people who tipped about 15% and it finally felt good to know I was appreciated for all the good service that I give people. There were still a few that were not as good, but that will happen.

I find that just when I've about given up on people, they do something to renew my faith in them. Good for you!

I've never waited tables (I know I could never balance a tray of drinks without someone ending up drenched!) but I do eat out a lot. I'm very happy to leave a 15-20% tip for average to good service. I also believe that tips should be factored into the whole eating-out event--and not added on as an afterthought.

Some questions/observations:

1. Which came first--the decline in service or the decline in tips? I'm noticing that service at moderate chains--Chili's, Friday's, etc.--is becoming laughably pathetic. Any more, I would rather eat at a local Mom & Pop place than a chain. At least at a local establishment, the owner is usually around somewhere making sure everything is good.
2. Why is it that service in Europe (where tips are truly optional, and mostly a dollar or two--converted to local currency--is sufficent) is still pretty good? I know they make much better wages there--perhaps they really love doing their jobs well? Or they know if they don't perform well, someone else will gladly come along and take their job? Is it the same here?