Cheap People

[kimluvswdw]

I find that just when I've about given up on people, they do something to renew my faith in them. Good for you!

I've never waited tables (I know I could never balance a tray of drinks without someone ending up drenched!) but I do eat out a lot. I'm very happy to leave a 15-20% tip for average to good service. I also believe that tips should be factored into the whole eating-out event--and not added on as an afterthought.

Some questions/observations:

1. Which came first--the decline in service or the decline in tips? I'm noticing that service at moderate chains--Chili's, Friday's, etc.--is becoming laughably pathetic. Any more, I would rather eat at a local Mom & Pop place than a chain. At least at a local establishment, the owner is usually around somewhere making sure everything is good.
2. Why is it that service in Europe (where tips are truly optional, and mostly a dollar or two--converted to local currency--is sufficent) is still pretty good? I know they make much better wages there--perhaps they really love doing their jobs well? Or they know if they don't perform well, someone else will gladly come along and take their job? Is it the same here?

I have no idea about the service in Europe, but I know what you mean about the service at local chain restaurants. Half the time when we go out to eat at a chain the service is very lacking. We were at Chilis last week and it took over 20 minutes to get an order of chips and salsa. It came out about the same time as our dinner did. That is a big no-no when it is ordered as an appetizer. I also got tired of waiting for our drinks to be filled.


As a server, how can someone expect a good tip for service like this.

 

[CathrynRose]

I have no idea about the service in Europe, .

I do - via my son and his father. They JUST got back from Paris on Saturday.

Its funny - they said exactly the opposite of theis great service balogna. They said they took their order, brought their food, and dropped their check. They never saw them again, and had a hard time getting refills, or anything needed.

And this was at every restaurant.

 

[Stella3]

I do - via my son and his father. They JUST got back from Paris on Saturday.

Its funny - they said exactly the opposite of theis great service balogna. They said they took their order, brought their food, and dropped their check. They never saw them again, and had a hard time getting refills, or anything needed.

And this was at every restaurant.

Considering that refills are not the norm in Europe (most people just drink the one drink they have), I would suppose that getting a "refill" was difficult.

 

[CathrynRose]

Considering that refills are not the norm in Europe (most people just drink the one drink they have), I would suppose that getting a "refill" was difficult.

Okay - lets use another word: An additonal drink / glass of wine.

They had a hard time with that, too.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I find it fascinating that every server or former server actually posting - did - (in essense) expect tips, for quality service. They did not take a job to wait table, and clean and stock the entire restaurant for $3/hr. Well aware if they had a crappy attitude the tips would suffer, BUT IN GENERAL expected tips.

BUT... the friend of a friend of a sister in law's brother's cousin, who OWNED a place, worked for 20 years serving, etc etc - didnt expect them. They knew they would only make $3/hr and anything extra was just a huge suprise!!!

Wrong. Go back and read. There is someone here who admits to having worked as a server and still didn't expect a tip.

Also, I sense that last comment is directed at me. Sorry. I'm talking about my aunts. My father's sisters. Whom I have spent a huge amount of my life with. Not the friend of a friend of a sister in law's brother's cousin whom I don't even know. Heck. I don't even have a sister in law because I only have one sister.

The reason people take serving jobs is for the tips. It is the reason I took the job at the restaurant and did not return to the grocery store kitchen where I worked last year. The money ended up not being good at all. With most jobs you know when you will be in and when you will be out. At the restaurant, they get me out of there as soon as possible. It has not been uncommon for me to have four or five tables the entire night. I quit my job today, and part of it was because of a lack of money. $40.00 a week because I am getting so few tables and people are tipping lousy does not pay my bills. I don't know a single person who can pay their rent utilities, and food on 3.30 an hour working at most four hours a day. We have to expect tips to at least a degree.

As others have pointed out numerous times, regardless of whether or not you tip me, I am being taxed on a percentage of that sale as part of my income, so you are stealing.

When I say I expect tips, that does not mean that I think I don't have to work hard. I expect to work hard and give you the best service possible to earn my wage. Everybody has bad days however, days when nothing goes right. I'm not talking about bringing your personal life into the restaurant, but just days when everything goes wrong. If you work in another job and you have a day like that, you get paid the same amount as you would on a stellar day. That is not true for servers, and that is indeed the risk I take as a server.

I also disagree that the entitlement attitude is a problem with our generation.
When I worked at Denny's, I was the youngest day server by at least twenty years. The other servers broke the rules, were lazy, and did practically nothing but expected the tip. I, on the other hand, had great performance reviews form the manager, was the only one trusted alone for breakfast, and was due for a raise when I returned from school (sadly they closed while I was at school.)

Every job, every generation, every demographic that you choose will have people who do the minimum (or less) to get by, and people who work their butts off to do the job to the best of their ability.

Of course the reason why people take these jobs is for the tips. You are taking a chance that your tips will be good. But none the less, it is a chance.

Tips are not a requirement. If they were, they would be added onto the bill just as in the larger party. They are still a gift. Even the government takes note that not everyone tips well and only counts 10% of sales as possible tips given. If the vast majority of people (as in this thread) pay 15-20%, the government is giving you 5-10% for free.

While serving can pay well in tips during certain times, in times of financial stress such as now, it doesn't. That's the way it has always been and will always be. You voluntarily choose to take on the hard work for so little guaranteed pay in the hopes of making more. Just as in any sales job that works on commission. You are working partly on commission and are selling your self and your skills in the hopes of more money.

If you really want some good serving tips, work in a bar on friday and saturday nights or game nights. One of my cousins works part time in a local bar. Most Friday nights she usually ends up with about $300 in tips. Heck, I would do that in a second if I could be around smoke.

As for the generational work ethic, it's true. You do find lazy people in all generations. But even I can see more people my age that are lazier than the generation before me. I just brought it up because of the comment about why work so hard for so little. Because that's what's expected of a person. To do the job they take on to the best of their ability.

But please notice how most that have posted here that works or has worked in service feels entitled to their tips. While you all work hard and I appriciate it and usually show it with a good tip, the bottom line is it's still not a requirement.
You can't ever count on getting good tips. Especially in today's market.
Unless the laws change, you will always be taking a chance on what you earn in the service business.

 

[RabbitFood]

I do - via my son and his father. They JUST got back from Paris on Saturday.

Its funny - they said exactly the opposite of theis great service balogna. They said they took their order, brought their food, and dropped their check. They never saw them again, and had a hard time getting refills, or anything needed.

And this was at every restaurant.

I've not been to Paris in over 25 years, so I'll defer to your son on that one.
But in London, Germany, Austria, Denmark and the other European countries I've been to recently, service has always been prompt and attentive. Although I learned that I have to ask for the bill--the servers will leave you alone after checking that everything is okay. I can't remember ever being rushed from a table.

 

[livie1205]

I do - via my son and his father. They JUST got back from Paris on Saturday.

Its funny - they said exactly the opposite of theis great service balogna. They said they took their order, brought their food, and dropped their check. They never saw them again, and had a hard time getting refills, or anything needed.

And this was at every restaurant.

WOW that sucks for them...I went to Paris a few months ago with my best friend (she had extra airline miles that i used) and every place we went to to eat were very nice (even though i had a hard time understanding lol) well they sounded nice lol I got another drink right away and they did not even add it to the check! I did not get bad or rude service at any place we went...so I guess not all service there is bad, maybe it is just a toss up anywhere you are.
I went to applebees last night and I could not get the server to stop chatting with the bartender long enough to remember to bring our drinks....all she did was giggle and say oops i got side tracked sorry giggle giggle

 

[Todd&Copper]

There was an article in my local newspaper yesterday about tipping in restaurants being down, and it quoted the national average salary, after tips, of waitresses as something around $7.60/hr and bartenders as $8.?? per hour. They used tax returns to compute this, so it all depends of course on how honestly waitstaff report their tips to the IRS.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

In many states servers do not make minimum wage from the restaurant. I make $3.33 an hour. I then have to declare 10% of my total sales as tips for income purposes. I have to tip out the bar tender 2% of my total sales, even if the only drink I sold all night was a beer, and if we have a busser they get 2% of my total sales. I have no problem with tipping 10% for bad service, but I do have a problem with leaving no tip since they are declaring a percentage of that sale for tax purposes. If there is a problem I talk to the manager, which is much more effective than stiffing them. If somebody stiffs or undertips me, I don't know if it's because of bad service or because they don't have the money.
.

The thing is, this is completely in the server's control. Just don't give bad service and at least from me, you will get your 20%. If you take my order and disappear, drop the food off and disappear, never refill a drink, never ask once during the meal if everything is ok, never ask if we want dessert or coffee and especially if I am so frustrated I have to ask another server to track you down for our bill, you will be getting 0% from me.

Of course, I will also speak to the manager and the server explaining the reason, so there will be no confusion. But if I get horrible service, the server gets a horrible tip.

I could care less who you have to pay out of your tips. If a server has to pay all these people, then they need to make sure they don't ignore a table, make sure they are pleasant, make sure they provide service that is comparable to the quality of the restaurant. That is their job.

But it is completely under the server's control. Decent service = decent tip. This entitlement attitude of "Even if I give awful service, I should get 10%" is what rubs many of us wrong.

If I do a horrible job in my job, I don't get the bonuses or raises. I may even get a pay cut. I just don't get the "I have bills to pay, so even if I do a horrible job, you should give me my bonus."

A server never has to worry with our family. If the server gives good service, they will get their tip. And excellent service - you will be getting at least 25%.

The server controls it, completely.

And FWIW - if I get horrible service, but a heartfelt apology with a reasonable explanation, then I will tip the 15%.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

The restaurant I work in is an upscale place seafood place. .... All you do is put the food on the table and then gab with the other servers until a drink needs refilled. I don't even have to take a dirty dish away on the regular side if I don't want to.

I think you have just figured out why you are seeing lower tips.

Patrons of upscale restaurants usually expect upscale service.

Gabbing with the other servers and just showing up to refill drinks is not upscale service.

 

[kimluvswdw]

I think you have just figured out why you are seeing lower tips.

Patrons of upscale restaurants usually expect upscale service.

Gabbing with the other servers and just showing up to refill drinks is not upscale service.

I did not say I gab with the other servers. After I serve the food and check back with them to see if anyting is needed, I usually roll silverware or straighten my section. What I was saying was that the work in the sit down part of the restaurant is alot easier than the buffet side.

Also, even if the servers did talk while the tables were eating, that is perfectly ok as long as the tables don't suffer because of it. Just because the servers talk does not mean that the patron is not getting upscale service.

If you have read any of my pots you will see that I give the very best service to everyone and yet some people still tip poorly.

 

[crashbb]

I did not say I gab with the other servers.

Actually, you said exactly that -

All you do is put the food on the table and then gab with the other servers until a drink needs refilled.

The bolding is mine.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

Actually, you said exactly that -

The bolding is mine.

I don't see anything wrong with talking to coworkers as long as it doesn't interfer with the service.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

I don't see anything wrong with talking to coworkers as long as it doesn't interfer with the service.

But apparently, it is interfering with service, as the OP is saying that she is consistently seeing 10% or lower tips.

I will give her the explanation of the economy. But not for the reasons she thinks, ie: money is tight, so they are going out to dinner, but saving money on the tips.

What I see with my friends and associates is that they are more aware and demanding of service reflective of the scale of restaurant they are eating at.

When money is flush, it is easier to brush off the inattentive server at an upscale restaurant and not have to deal with it. Just put the 20% on the bill and call it a day.

But with money tight for many, people are getting tired of the long waits, the inattentiveness, seeing the server gabbing when they can't get their attention unless the drinks are low, the entitled attitudes of the servers at the table, the salad plates still on the table when the food comes, etc, etc, etc.

This might be ok for Chile's, but not when you are paying for service at an upscale restaurant.

My belief is that customers are just tired of paying for premium service (in both the cost of the food and the tip), but receiving the minimum of service and are starting to show it with their wallets.

Because money is tight, people are choosing more carefully where to eat. And if they choose the upscale, more expensive restaurant, they are more demanding of getting what they are paying for. If I am going to be leaving a $30.00 tip for the hour I am there, I had better get service that warrants $30.00 per hour work quality.

As mentioned in the thread before, upscale service does indeed fall just short of foot rubs. And because money is tight, people are getting pickier about actually getting the service they are paying for. No more just brushing off bad service. They are showing it with their wallets that they are just not going to take it anymore.

 

[kimluvswdw]

Actually, you said exactly that -

The bolding is mine.

I never said I put the food on the table and gabbed with the other servers. It was an "in general" comment. If you go to any sit down restaurant and you will see the waitstaff talking. My statement mean't that you have more idle time in a sit down restaurant than in a buffet setting and you do work harder in a buffet setting. I don't care if you are talking with people or picking your nose, you can do whatever you choose if your patrons are taken care of.

 

[kimluvswdw]

But apparently, it is interfering with service, as the OP is saying that she is consistently seeing 10% or lower tips.
I will give her the explanation of the economy. But not for the reasons she thinks, ie: money is tight, so they are going out to dinner, but saving money on the tips.

What I see with my friends and associates is that they are more aware and demanding of service reflective of the scale of restaurant they are eating at.

When money is flush, it is easier to brush off the inattentive server at an upscale restaurant and not have to deal with it. Just put the 20% on the bill and call it a day.

But with money tight for many, people are getting tired of the long waits, the inattentiveness, seeing the server gabbing when they can't get their attention unless the drinks are low, the entitled attitudes of the servers at the table, the salad plates still on the table when the food comes, etc, etc, etc.

This might be ok for Chile's, but not when you are paying for service at an upscale restaurant.

My belief is that customers are just tired of paying for premium service (in both the cost of the food and the tip), but receiving the minimum of service and are starting to show it with their wallets.

Because money is tight, people are choosing more carefully where to eat. And if they choose the upscale, more expensive restaurant, they are more demanding of getting what they are paying for. If I am going to be leaving a $30.00 tip for the hour I am there, I had better get service that warrants $30.00 per hour work quality.

As mentioned in the thread before, upscale service does indeed fall just short of foot rubs. And because money is tight, people are getting pickier about actually getting the service they are paying for. No more just brushing off bad service. They are showing it with their wallets that they are just not going to take it anymore.

No, my tips are not because of bad service due to me taking to my coworkers. As a matter of fact I really don't know anyone that I work with and I like it that way. If you have read anything, tips are down across the board. From hair dressers, car wash people, servers, etc. Tips are down because alot of people are trying to save a buck when they go out to eat and I guess they do it by tipping the server less.

Last night my tips were above normal so it is not due to my service. I believe it is a hit or miss thing. Some nghts are good and some aren't.

 

[Todd&Copper]

Maybe the consumer is merely taking back the "raise" that tipped positions gave themselves when they moved from the 5%-10%-15% schema to the 10%-15%-20% that prevails today?

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

No, my tips are not because of bad service due to me taking to my coworkers. As a matter of fact I really don't know anyone that I work with and I like it that way. If you have read anything, tips are down across the board. From hair dressers, car wash people, servers, etc. Tips are down because alot of people are trying to save a buck when they go out to eat and I guess they do it by tipping the server less.

Yup. I agree. Tips are down all over the place. But I still don't think that it is because people are trying to save a buck.

Quality of service has been declining across the board in every service industry. Entitlement attitudes that are being shown on this thread, the ones that say "I expect a tip no matter what my service because I have to tip out and I have bills to pay" are not being tolerated anymore.

People are starting to fight back. The money is tighter, so they are expecting proper service.

The old, "I just have to refill water glasses" isn't going to cut it anymore in an upscale restaurant.

Last night my tips were above normal so it is not due to my service. I believe it is a hit or miss thing. Some nghts are good and some aren't.

Isn't that the time old tradition in any kind of commission work (and tips are equal to commissions) that there are good days/months and not so good ones? That is nothing new.


I bet if you ratchup up your service a few notches (although I am sure you are giving good service) to beyond what is expected, you will see an increase in your tips.

If you see a decrease in tips, you are in control. Don't just gripe about it. Do something about it. Change what you are doing. Your level of service may have been great when money was flush. Obviously, many of your customers are not seeing it that way. Be 100% better than any other server in your restaurant. Don't give the customer any reason to leave a lower tip. Dazzle them with service they couldn't dream of.

 

[kimluvswdw]

Yup. I agree. Tips are down all over the place. But I still don't think that it is because people are trying to save a buck.

Quality of service has been declining across the board in every service industry. Entitlement attitudes that are being shown on this thread, the ones that say "I expect a tip no matter what my service because I have to tip out and I have bills to pay" are not being tolerated anymore.

People are starting to fight back. The money is tighter, so they are expecting proper service.

The old, "I just have to refill water glasses" isn't going to cut it anymore in an upscale restaurant.



Isn't that the time old tradition in any kind of commission work (and tips are equal to commissions) that there are good days/months and not so good ones? That is nothing new.

I bet if you ratchup up your service a few notches (although I am sure you are giving good service) to beyond what is expected, you will see an increase in your tips.

I agree with you 100% that the quality of service with everything is down. It seems that people want something for nothing and it just doesn't work that way.

I also agree with stepping up the service. I always give good service, but now I ask "where are you visiting from" and other questions. I talked to alot of nice people last night and the tips reflected that. Sometimes you can be at your very best and still not get at least a 15% tip. I guess the other good ones make up for that.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

I agree with you 100% that the quality of service with everything is down. It seems that people want something for nothing and it just doesn't work that way.

No, they want what they are paying for.

I also agree with stepping up the service. I always give good service, but now I ask "where are you visiting from" and other questions. I talked to alot of nice people last night and the tips reflected that. Sometimes you can be at your very best and still not get at least a 15% tip. I guess the other good ones make up for that.

You are right. Some people you can never please. But it is that way in every single industry out there. That is just human nature. Glad to see your tips reflected your stepped up service!